Lawsuit says SafeSpeed, SafeLight Unconstitutional

Here in California, traffic cameras are supposed to be illegal if the city is being paid on a per ticket basis (I think).

However, governments seem to slide around on that one. I think there's a site called www.ticketbusters.com or something like that, that has more info.

So, the way that Lafayette is being paid might not stand up in court.

Was just in Lafayette at New Years. My friends told me that camera violations are no-point violations, and only $100. Now I could live with that. Here in California, it cost me $392, and it went on my record.

Also, Louisiana is a bit more wild west than California. This is the state with drive-thru daiquiri bars, you have to remember.

I'm from Louisiana, so don't no one be flaming me on this.

That's some lawyer's commercial site. The one I saw was not a commercial site. Can't remember the URL though.

My city has three of the redlight cameras installed, but there have been some discussions on local talk radio that any citations issued as a result of these cameras catching you going through a red light may not be constitutional. From what I understand, the detractors are saying that state law says the police have to witness the offense before they can issue a citation and that the camera does not consitute witnessing. I'm not sure the city has been able to issue any citations thus far. The first camera to be installed was left in place for several months and then removed and relocated. There is still a debate raging over the legality of these cameras. The mayor is trying to shove them down our throats and the people are upset about them.

The red light camera should be removed. A manchine don't show the whole situation when you pass thru the light before it become red

At least on the camera that got me, it showed a video of perhaps 5 seconds, showing me blowing through a right turn on red, at 17mph.

It was pretty clear what the situation was. It also showed that traffic to my left had not started moving yet, but I'm figuring a live cop would not take that into account either.

I live in Lafayette and I think it would be safe to say that the people fighting this are the people who don't want to get caught or already have.
While there have been many stories on the local news sites of opposition and lawsuits, I think the majority of the people realize that there is a problem and are glad something is being done about it (I could be wrong...but this is what I've gathered from the times I've talked to people about it). I think the ironic part is how they are complaining about how this is a civil matter, while they should be thankful that it DOESN'T go on your driving record!
Two women even tried to file a complaint because the people in the vans aren't licensed PIs, and according to a Louisiana statute (so they say), only PIs are allowed to take pictures of private citizens for use in court. Needless to say, even the newscasters were saying how stupid that was because if that was the case, if they recorded something while doing a newscast and turned it into the police as evidence, it wouldn't be admissible because they aren't PIs.
I even think it's ludicrous how people bash the programs because they make money off the tickets. Last I checked, the main reason I was worried about a ticket from a cop was 2 things: going on my record and upping my insurance (money) and the amount of the ticket (money). I see this program as even better as it doesn't go on your driving record.

I agree that too many people are running red lights and something must be done. Perhaps the cameras are the solution, but caution should be used in issuing citations. As I indicated in my previous post, the original camera in my city (Montgomery, Alabama) was in operation for several months last year (it has since been removed and relocated). One afternoon, I was driving through that intersection. The light was yellow just as I entered the intersection. It turned red a couple of seconds later and by that time the guy in front of me stopped due to the traffic in front of him. He resumed a second or two later and, as I was right in the middle of a major intersection, I continued forward also. The camera got us both. Since the system was just being tested at that time, I did not get a ticket, but I can see where I might have, if the system had been fully operational.

I totally agree. IMO, cameras are the only solution, but they must be done right. Usually, they will only capture you if you enter the intersection after the light turns red. Maybe their camera system works differently, but I would hope they are all going that way now.

They should throw arrest wires if you run the light, it would at least avoid an accident.

Here in Maryland, the MVA has a website listing all the cameras. Of course, that didn't help me a couple of weeks ago. Found a picture in my mailbox last night... speed camera... 47 in a 35. I was so close... they're set to go off if you're 11MPH over. Oh well, only $40 here!

I am new to this site, and from Lafayette also, but I wanted to respond to nhl2k's comments, as I am part of the "opposition group".

While everyone that lives here can agree, drivers in this area are some of the most reckless and dangerous people to ever get behind a steering wheel, and no one that opposes the cameras and speed vans, supports speeding and running red lights, it's the whole shadiness of this deal by the Lafayette Consolidated Government that has people in an uproar. The whole sale point of this was safety, but it was never put to a public vote, and oddly the cameras are not placed in the most dangerous intersections, but rather certain "areas" of the city. This combined with creating a loophole by making it a civil violation, something which is not allowed in the Louisiana constitution to my understanding, keeping it out of the hands of the police force, who by the way is owed a ton of back pay by the city, who continues to fight this despite a court order to pay it. This is a money making scheme by the city pure and simple, but they are not intelligent enough to even negotiate a decent contract with Reflex, the private Australian owned company issuing the citations. The city is only making around 40 percent from citations, while the remainder goes to Redflex. So our leaders are willing to give money to Redflex rather than pay the police force who should be issuing the citations.

There was also an incident involving someone who challenged a ticket and won, the hearing was taped with the recorder in plain view. After the hearing the recorder was left on and the traffic engineer and arbitrator were caught on tape mocking the defendents. When a person re-entered the room to retrieve the recorder the traffic engineer was trying to erase the tape. Another incident involved Reflex trying to charge someone a 75 dollar late charge, even though she mailed it in time, it sat unopened on someone's desk untill after the due date.

These are some of the issues we have with this. There's info all over the 'net about Redflex's practices, heck one of the van operators was arrested recently here for OWI, and there are pictures of the vans speeding also.

Personally, I don't run red lights, or drive with excessive speed. When I pass a van I give 'em the finger and continue on, but I am not going to support something I do not feel is right.

All,

Cameras and Vans equipped to nab speeders and stoplight/stop sign offenders are bit too much, but if a life or crash can be avoided I am all for it. Too many people speed and cause crashes that can be avoided.

Life is too short to complain about something that common sense should rule.

If a stoplight/signal light is red you must stop rather than trying to beat it or not stop.

Slow down, nothing is that important that you cannot yield to the correct or near correct speed limit and stop for a red light or stop sign, rather than trying to beat the system. Be considerate of the law and most of our problems would be minimal.

Laws are not made to be broken, most of them are for your lives to be safe and continue without many problems. The biggest problem we have is that we have too many idiot drivers.

Maybe the timing of the cameras and facts should be reviewed if the offense is iffy, based on other circumstances,

How ever please stop trying to beat the system and be more considerate of the road and other vehicles. Sure would not want to tell someone I hurt or I was responsible for that I was speeding or went through a stop sign or red light and maimed or killed someone.

Common sense is what should prevail. Not much to ask for.

Have a great day and respect people and most of all the law.
If you do not like the rules of the road run for a political office and change the laws. All it take is a stroke of the pen. Ray

Rowsdower,
I am in no way saying that our government is going to run this 100% correctly. As a matter of fact, you could have the same concerns about ANY government program because there are people running it.
I hear people talking, and the camera system has them thinking more about their driving. I know many people who are driving safer because of these cameras, whether you support the individuals behind the program or not.
Now common sense would dictate, that if everyone wants to get rid of them, they should not speed and run red lights. No revenue means no funding means goodbye to the system. I feel that is the only way they will leave, but I hope it makes our city safer in the mean time.

No problem nhl2k, as I said I don't support breaking the speed laws, and lord knows we do need the help here, I just wish it would have been handled differently by LCG. More police presence would be a better fix imho, because a camera is not going to stop a drunk driver, whereas a police cruiser has a better chance, and I'm sure you know how many drunks we have on the roads around here.

I know what you're saying. We definitely needed help, but as we both know, there are not enough cops down here to catch red-light running and speeding. I hardly see any cops clocking people except around Lafayette High during school zones. And I highly doubt the city will start paying for more police salaries when they could quickly get the cameras up for much cheaper. I don't mind the cameras as long as they are implemented correctly. I'm not sure about all the mess that the LCG did in getting them set up, but in any event, let's hope our roads will be at least a little safer than they have been in the past.

If I didn't drive defensively, I'd probably have been in a dozen wrecks already. This should all be about respect for each other. One of my friends from elementary school lost a brother racing down a 4 lane road at night after they lost control and slammed into a poll. There is no excuse for speeding, especially the amount of speeding I see in our residential areas. It's only a matter of time before a kid walks into the road to get something because he doesn't see a car that's going too fast...
The sad thing is that it will take something like the speed vans and red light/speed cameras to change people's driving habits. That's why no matter what happened for us to get the cameras, I am 100% behind using that technology to make our roads safer.

I think the reason why these redlight cams exist is because the local gov'ts are hoping that there are some drivers who simply do not know the laws or regs. For example, if a driver did not knew there was a redlight cam and gets a picture in the mail with a citation, then that driver will become nervous and pay it right away. They prey on those fears. But thats just my opinion.