School Speed Zones - Garmin

The default alert type set by POI Loader is called "Along Road". It triggers when you are the specified distance "along the road" from the POI. When in Routing mode, the whole route is considered one road, when computing the alert distance.

In this example, imagine you are travelling up the screen on Road A. You could turn right onto Road B and pass a School after 0.5 Mile.

Say Point {X} is 1 mile from the intersections of Road A and Road B (not easy this!)

Map mode
If you set a Proximity Alert for the school at 1.5 miles, the alert will sound when you turn right onto Road B (i.e at 0.5 miles).

If you continue driving up Road A you will probably not get an alert at all.

Routing Mode

If your Route involves making a right turn onto Road B, then the alert will sound at 'Point X' - 1.5 miles from the school, by road.

Alternatives...

If you set the alert as a TourGuide audio alert, these are circular and the alert will always sound. To get it sound at "Point X", you could set the distance to 1.118 miles (straight-line distance, from "X" to the school).

[edit]
There must, presumably, be some margin of error allowed, for the positioning of the alert-because there's no 'width' defined for the road (it's just a series of connected points). I have no idea what this is, but maybe it's the (width of an average road)+(average satellite error) ?

Sounds like a cool POI when will it be ready?

Okay, so if you load the POI with the words "TourGuide" in the file name (if I remember correctly), it will do a radius alert rather than an along the road alert. Do I have that correct?

The file I found web crawling was at http://www.gps-poi-us.com/school.html. I wasn't terribly impressed with the site. I think POI Factory has it (and others I found) beat hands-down with POI and supporting files and knowledgeable helpful people.

keep in mind that we don't post files that come from other sites

Miss Poi

Yes.

You will need an .mp3 file as well, with some sort of audio tone or message. The .csv and .mp3 need to have the same name, both containing "TourGuide". The "TourGuide" part is case-sensitive. You can set the proximity in manual mode, or by another slightly less obvious means:-

TourGuide's are never speed-related, but, POI Loader uses any speed information to alter the proximity distance. Using this method, the minimum distance is 1/4mile, the maximum is just over 6500 ft (1.25miles). The distance is adjusted to give 36seconds warning, based on the speed. (So you can use speeds from 25->124mph ... (1/4mile@25mph =36 seconds). 124mph is the highest allowed speed.

You can have different Proximities for each POI (using the @speed syntax or you can put the digits in the file name:


Schools_TourGuide_124.csv +
Schools_TourGuide_124.mp3

would create a file where all the poi's have an alert radius of 1.25 miles, when loaded in automatic mode.


Whenever you're within the proximity circle, you'll have a red "TourGuide: Schools" banner on the top of the screen (and a speaker icon or similar on the map). You'll have to enable TourGuides to play automatically - it will probably only play once.

When created from csv input, all the POI's will play the same audio.

All slightly bizarre, I know !

I've just finished doing a series of tests. From my initial experiments, I would say the margin of error is around the 100' mark.

I did some more tests, and the actual margin seems to be closer to 75'

See this image for my test setup.

The numbered circles on the image are the actual points from the map that make up the roads. (Navteq seem to favour the 'racing line' :-)

Point "W" has a 250' "Along Road" alert. If I drive down the 'Purple' road (in 'Map mode'), this will alert, so long as it is within 75' of it (the purple road, that is). The alert actually triggers at the alloted 250'

Moving the Point "W" more than 75' away from my route and the alert doesn't trigger at all. Altering the alert distance does not influence whether it will trigger, just when it will trigger (if it does).

I am very new at this GPS/POI stuff just got a 670 for Christmas. Our city has differing degrees of speed zone areas around schools. If I was to pin point the start of each zone could I write a set of POI's that would then activate a proximity alert for any street approaching a school? It appears after reading the other comments in this tread that it would be the best way to ensure not being pulled over for speeding. Also the school zones are only in effect certain times of the day and not weekends. Are there ways to include that type of information to narrow the alert?

Wow, they want $45 for that file? That's outrageous.

I'd much rather stick to a free, user-driven site like this one.

The issue is, that these are alerts for Points of Interest, not Zones of Interest. So your mission, is to mark some Points (with alerts), that give the required warning, without too many false alarms.

Using the example from above (http://geepeeex.googlepages.com/view.jpg)

Imagine the "Green" road has a 10mph limit, so we want to set an alert for it - the other roads have some other limit.

If you set 'normal' i.e. "along road" alerts for Points 15 + 23 on my map, of say 250', they would 'guard' the whole road, when in "Map" mode. You should get an alert, the instant you turn onto the Green road, from either end - which should continue all the way along it.
If you were to drive down the "Purple" road (in "Map" mode), there would be no alert (Points 15+23) being far enough 'back' to avoid this.

However, if you were in "Routing" mode and selected somewhere on the "Green" road as your destination, the alerts would start much sooner - because now it could work out 250' by road, along your computed route. (So the alerts would trigger somewhere on the "red" or "purple" roads.)

If this isn't acceptable, then you'd have to consider a larger number of Alert points, each with a shorter distance. Or, use the 'circular' TourGuide alerts to cover the area (they would not necessarily be centred on a road at all.)

Hope this hasn't just confused the issue

No.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will try this out and let you know how well it works.

Is there a way to have both distance and speed alerts using Garmin's POI loader? I would like to set a speed alert but only if I am within a specific distance of the POI. If I set the speed to 40km/h the distance is defaulted to 400 meters. I am trying to set the speed alert to 40km/h but with a distance alert of 20 meters.

Hello,

Does anyone know if these POI files will work with streets and trips?

Set the speed to 40 by putting the number "40" in the file name. Then run POI Loader in Manual Mode and you can set the distance at whatever you want. You should be aware that 20 meters is pretty close to the GPS accuracy, so you might not get alerts consistently.

Oh, and Phil will probably be along shortly tell how to easily do it with a GPX file. : )

He knows of what he speaks!

You can use the Import Data Wizard in S&T to import CSV files as pushpins.

Strictly speaking, the Alert is either a Proximity alert or a Speed Alert. But what you are asking, of course, is how to alter the distance at which a Speed alert is to be considered active.

POI Loader sets a distance for Speed alerts that would give 36 seconds warning (or a minimum of 402m) . If you use manual mode, and alter the distance, it sets a Proximity alert (with no speed component) instead.

In order to get the degree of control you require, POI Loader needs to be fed with a .gpx file as input. The speed component goes in the POI name

<name>School@40<name>

and the distance at which it is considered active does in the proximity tag.

<gpxx:Proximity>20</gpxx:Proximity>


Thank you, Phil!!!

drat - too slow again

I don't know if I ever investigated this combination...and I was going to have an early night

I'll be back

What it seems to do, when you select Manual mode, is default to a 40km/h Speed Alert, but if you then select Distance, it then ditches the Speed component and becomes a Proximity alert again.

Thinking about it, this is the reason this software: http://www.cbrom.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/3.html?submenu=2 was written.

Well, I can't confirm it that works or not because all the speed alerts in my Zumo are showing up with a distance of 1524 feet regardless of the speed in the file name and regardless of the setting I put in in Manual Mode. I'm going to try to convert the files to a different format and see if it works differently.

They keep the speed alert, though, even when I changed the distance. But the distance was wrong.

I could have sworn that I've changed the distances before. I wonder if this version of the Zumo firmware it causing it.

Ya, that is my own experience. If you use manual mode, then you can set either prox or speed but not both and if you use manual mode it overrides the settings in the file name.

So I just use the file name method (e.g. @20) and don't use manual mode and then you get both speed and prox, but as stated above, the prox is calculated for 36 seconds so you get what you get. For me, it is good enough. As long as I am reminded of an upcoming school zone, does it really matter if it isn't immediately when the alarm goes off but rather a block more down the road?

PT

Ok, here's what I figured out. The speed files I was loading were GPX files that I had converted at some point from CSV files. Somehow, the 1524 distance must have gotten encoded in the GPX. But the speed data stayed even when I changed the distance.

So, I reloaded the POIs with the original CSV files and the original (and correct) alert distances were there.

But when I changed the distance in Manual Mode, as Phil indicated, the speed alert goes away.

Hmmmmm ....

I have a "Speed Trap.csv" file that I loaded in manual mode and asked for a 5000 foot proximity. The name of the POI that is inside the file is "Name@65". I get an alert close to a mile away that there is a "Speed Alert Ahead 65 Mph". It will ding twice and leave the red bar at the top until I pass the POI. If I am also going over 65 Mph, I will get a second warning of "Speed Alert 65 Mph" and a single ding. It will continue to give this single ding every 10 seconds until my speed is under 65 Mph or I pass the POI.

Maybe the filename enabled both speed and proximity alerts on the same POI with a Nuvi 350.

Oh, you can get them at the same time if you leave the defaults as they are. The speed data will alert at a corresponding distance (ie greater speed alert = greater distance).

The problem we were generating was when we were try to change the distance on a speed alert in Manual Mode in POI Loader.

That sounds for all the world, as though it's been through the program I mentioned above - and converted to gpx (with each alert 'doubled-up' - the program refers to this as "always alerted")

'Ding-twice' (or "bong" "bong", as I call it ) is a Proximity Warning alert. The higher-pitched, single tone is a Speed Alert.

But these are two separate alerts...

I have misspoken. The file name is "Speed Traps.csv". The line below is one of the POI's listed in the file. But I loaded it in Express mode, not Manual.
-88.203752,41.803680,"Rte 59 & I-88 Speed Trap@65","Westbound ramp trap."
But the behavior is as I mentioned.... Double ding and "Speed Trap Alert Ahead". If I am going over 65 Mph, an additional "Speed Trap 65 Mph" and a single ding goes off about every 10 seconds until I either slow down or pass the point. The proximity warning was pretty consistent at .75 miles or so. I'm guessing now that it was nn feet X mph that was giving me the proximity distance, not the manual mode. As I thought about it, the few times traffic was backed up and my speed was more like 35 Mph, the proximity was much closer than .75 miles.

Like most of us, I experimented with tons of permutations trying to get a POI alert to trigger properly. After I read the responses, I remembered that I had not used Manual mode in quite a while.

We do have a school POI file here.

http://www.poi-factory.com/poifiles/us/schools

Ok being new to this game, here is what I've done and what I am not sure about. I started with setting POIs in Google Earth. I saved the file as a KML and then opened it in PoiEdit. It shows the file in three different columns. Name/Lat/Long. I believe what you are saying is to change the name of each POI to include @40 at the end (for the speed alert). Quick question does it matter if there are spaces between the text? I have then saved the file as a GPX. When I open it in note pad I can see the following:
"*****School Zone 2 @ 40"......but I do not have a proximity set as of yet so there is no "proximity tag" present. How/where do I add the proximity tag to the file in PoiEdit? Do I add another column and where?

I'm wondering how accurate the school zone and speed camera files are. Are the coordinates set right at the camera or school zone sign and then it alarms a predetermined number of feet from that point?

For example, on the 101 in Phoenix, the speed camera at one exit going north is right near Raintree. But going south is a half mile before the northbound cameras. Essentially, they are not directly across from each other, so you would want to have a different coordinate for each or you would need a greater distance warning. I've not tried the school zone material yet to see how accurate it might be.

John

Ok. So maybe I'm asking for too much. Using the system for the last couple of days (newbie)I have realized that by setting the school zone POI's to alert at 50m the speed is irrelevant. It gives me the warning I am looking for. This being said, as all the zones are posted, I found the best way is to set a POI for each school at each sign location indicating the zone. This way no matter which street you approach the school you will get an alert. Also by keeping the distance down to a minimum I shouldn't get many errors and still gives enough time to slow down.

Has anyone successfully gotten this to work? if so, I am interested in a file to do this. I have had no luck, I don't think I am smart enough :0)

Am I just being stupid, or just plain missing something? I am wanting to put a Proximity Alert in my Nuvi 700 for school zones. I have read all the comments here, but can't for find instructions on EXACTLY how to do it. HELP!!

I downloaded the poi file with the schools for my area, but how do I set the alert to let me know when I am about to run down a kid or worse, get a speeding ticket?

Hey, you are doing better than I am. I can't even figure out how to get it to beep for a certain speed.

How do you set the Proximity Alert?

Run POI Loader in Manual Mode instead of Express Mode when you load your Custom POIs and you can set the alerts as whatever distance or speed you wish.

why on God's earth would anyone pay those high prices?
That's a hobby killer if you ask me!

Bob

I do it the lazy man's way. I don't like to mess with the manual POI loader and have to spec each POI file. I use the file name method and use Express loading of POI files. So for my school zone files I simply rename them with a 30 in the title to give me an alert when approaching the school zone and I am going over 30. The POI loader calculated the distance away to start the alert.

So for example, if I downloaded "schoolzone.csv" I change the title to "schoolzone_30.csv" which indicated to the loader that I want a 30 mph speed alert and will set it up for me in my garmin.

By the way, most school zones around me are 20mph but the alerts keeps going off until you get down to the alert speed or lower. So if you set it for 20, it will go off the entire way through it. I find setting it to 30 reminds my if I am 10+ mph over the speed limit and will stop alerting once my speed falls below 30. I have a bitmap icon that goes with it showing the 20MPH speed limit symbol, so even though my alert goes off for 30 mpg, I see on the screen a 20mph zone ahead by the icon. Works well and when I go by there at night, summer, weekends, I don't actually have to slow all the way down to 20 to stop it from bugging me.

Cheers,
PT

Another thread on School Alerts got started at:
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/11000

You may be interested in the alert info there; particularly the info on the priority of csv alert settings; i.e. Manual mode, number in the file name, and number within the file in the 'Name' Field (Name@30). If the file's 'Name' field contains @30, the manual mode will not override this.

RT

Yes, I am aware of the priority order of how alerts are determined. But as I said above, but I am TRULY the lazy man I said I was. I don't use manual mode at all and load all my POIs in express mode.

The ones I don't want alerts have normal file names and the ones I want alerts I just add the number to the file name. That way I never have to give it much thought. When I add a new POI to my GPS, I just toss it in my Custom Poi folder and load the folder in express mode. Anything already there loads like it always did, with alert ones loading automatically as alert files.

I don't use that many POIs to begin with, so it isn't a big deal, nor takes much time, for me to reload them all each time (vs. the rename method).

Cheers,
PT