Key FOB - Push Button Start

The article says ....

Yeah, anything is possible. I don't have it set to full blast and the heat from it isn't instant, it warms as the car itself warms. So far it hasn't cracked the windshield and it saves me time and keeps me from freezing when clearing the windows.

That said, Jeep Wranglers have a basically straight up and down windshield, road debris doesn't deflect, it gets absorbed. I've had to replace 8 cracked windshields from highway driving. I have a glass rider on my insurance because of it.

Jeep Wrangler windshields draw glass-cracking debris like a magnet draws steel. We have a 2017 Wrangler with one chip on the passenger side and another crack (was a chip that expanded into a crack *after* professional windshield chip repair) near the bottom edge. It doesn't affect the driver's field of vision, the crack doesn't leak (yet), our state safety inspection doesn't care if the windshield's cracked or chipped, and I know as soon as we replaced the windshield, we'd get another chip, so we're livin' with the damage for now. Like mud caked above and behind the wheels, I consider it a badge of honor as a Wrangler owner!

Ah, yes. My first new car was a 1975 BMW 2002. Now that was a car from which the driver could see everything. I don't think the designers can pass some of the current safety requirements with pillars so thin as those, and I think modern head rests also obstruct a lot more. I've not had that car since 1987, but I still compare every rental and new car unfavorably to the view it had.

How so? I have full 180+ deg view of whats around me. Even more if I rotate my head about the Y axis slightly. The rest of the view comes from my mirrors. There are little 2" blind spot mirrors at the lower outside corners of each mirror. This helps with blind spot and seeing more than a lane over.

About the only car which I consider a true blind spot is the 5/6th gen camaro. Even that I suppose one eventually gets used to.

What I have noticed is windows become smaller these days than cars of yesteryear/decade. I've read that's for safety reasons (more structural support) in the door. Some cars also have very thick A pillars, this can create an unnecessary blind spot.

Our first experience with these keyless systems was with my wife's 2012 Suzuki Grand Vitara. On one occasion, she left the FOB on her dresser. It was apparently close enough for the vehicle to sense and it started anyway.

She got to her destination and shut the car off. She noticed the missing FOB when the vehicle wouldn't lock. Without the FOB, she couldn't start the vehicle and had to call for help. Luckily, she wasn't locked out of the car and could wait in relative comfort.

There is a little blue warning light on the Suzuki dash that comes on when the FOB is out of range but with all the other dash lights, she didn't notice it.

Lesson learned.

The car with the best visibility of all, if you want a small SUV, is the Subaru Forester. They are very popular in Colorado since all Subarus are all-wheel drive.

Consumer Reports test-drives cars and shares your concern about visibility. Their test reports rate the visibility for every car, and many cars have good visibility.

Trouble spots are the front A-post and toward the blind spots to the rear. 4-door cars have better visibility toward the rear than 2-door.

Blind-spot detection systems are an available option for better trim lines of most cars.

dobs108

I have had this problem also and was told that the push start uses a lot of battery power. I finally got the care started and make sure the battery is replaced frequently. I noticed I have to replace the Key fob battery frequently. I never had this problem before the push start. it would last over 3 years.

Surprising that “start” would take that much power as compared to other functions. To do a remote start on my Lincoln MKX I have to hit the lock button, then the start button twice, and all within 3 seconds. But the fob is essentially on all the time in a standby mode. As I said earlier, on some cars, if the fob is close to the car, say 6 to 8 feet, that will take it out of standby and then battery life plummets. That is the case with my Porsche, the fob is the other side of an interior wall, perhaps 4 feet from the drivers seat. Many years ago I learned to keep the fob in an old metal tea canister and the battery lasts for several years.

Sold my G with an 8 yr old (original) battery in the 2nd fob, newish (2-3 yrs old) battery in the primary fob. The 2nd fob was stored disconnected - that is two halves separated and battery removed.

During the winter, the car gets driven once a week or less. In the off time, it will be connected to a battery tenderizer.

Back to the G, replaced the original battery at 4 years just to be on the safe side. However instead of turning it in, I kept it as a 12V source in the garage, hooked up indefinitely to the battery tender. At one point I brought this battery to pep boys to have it tested. Still capable of 500+ CCA, rated at 650 or so. More than enough to start the accord it eventually wound up in (and sold with).

Since we're talking about key FOBs:
"Be prepared to pay Toyota to start your car with your key fob

Owners of certain Toyota vehicles are confused at a not-so-new subscription service the car manufacturer has in place. It seems that those who have been enjoying the remote start feature on their key fobs may have to start paying for it as early as next year.

Many owners do not realize the remote start feature of their Toyota is a paid service. It is part of the company's Connected Services platform, which has been running for several years now. But in 2018, Remote Connect came included as a trial for cars with Audio Plus or Premium Audio packages. The Audio Plus trial period is three years, while the Premium is 10 years.

Some owners who purchased their 2018 Toyota early on are nearing the end of their Remote Connect trial and may not even know it. The "Remote Connect" subscription costs $8 per month or $80 per year for those wanting to keep this functionality. The stipulation was only made widely known thanks to a Reddit post last month pointing out the conditions on some Toyota marketing material. However, dealerships seem to gloss over the fact that this is a paid feature when demonstrating it for customers."

https://www.techspot.com/news/92607-prepared-pay-toyota-star...
Mark

Most remote systems for many years used RF as a means of communications, 315 MHz in the states and something higher as I recall in Europe. So why the need to use a subscription service except to also offer other services perhaps similar to OnStar?

Obviously I will skip this battery based remote start system. But, I shall expect smart phone to start the car with bluetooth technology when I get my next car.

You're about 5 days too late. This was posted on the 11th. Review postings on 1st page.

Why not? People will pay. Is this enough to sway folk to boycott a brand based on principle? I doubt it. However, as a none toyota owner (ever), if I was in the market for a car, and liked the toyota, I would make this part of the negotiating process. That is, deduct what it would cost in sub fees over the expected ownership duration of the car. Of course the dealer likely won't accept a deduction of $x.

Engadget (https://www.engadget.com/toyota-key-fob-remote-start-functio...) recently wrote it will be $8/month. Lets assume the first 3 years are free, and expected ownership is 10 years, so 7 yrs/84 months or $672. Actually, that will be more than $672 as they'll probably charge tax. Lets says $700 for sake of simplicity. Deduct $700 from the price of car.

It's a stupid move on T's part that will hopefully backfire that will force the bean counters to reconsider. Maybe i'm in the minority, but i've walked out of dealerships when we were within $500 of each other. Wasn't so much the money at that point but principle.

With a few extra components it can be had now. https://www.mobileedgeonline.com/yes-you-can-start-your-vehi...

Take a few moments to learn how to get in your car and drive if your FOB is dead. Definitely don't want to be out in the middle of the night in an unsafe neighborhood, trying to figure this stuff out.

On the Odyssey, the FOB has a key to unlock the door. Use this key to get into the car.

Then take the fob and bright it up to the start button. It should beep or notify you (like it accepted/recognized the key). Then you can start the car normally - press brakes & push START.

an interesting article about how easy it is to hack a key fob signal and steal a car. See https://www.makeuseof.com/ways-protect-against-keyless-car-t...

My wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee has one of those keyless fobs, it has to be within a certain distance of the car to be able to push the start button and get it running, she does not have the remote start feature.

My Jeep does have a remote start fob, but it has a key attached which must be used to run the Jeep. If someone broke into it while it was running they wouldn't be able to put it in gear without the key.

I like my fob better but it seems the keyless one is the industry is leaning toward.

There is one thing I don't like about any key fob. Years ago a friend dropped there fob (similar to mine) in a parking lot. The person who found it must have walked around the lot pushing the button listening for a horn beep to find the car. It was stolen. Must have been some joy riders it was found a few miles away banged up and out of gas.

That has probably happend to more than one person dropping their keys also. So I would not shy away from a fob anymore than I would from keys. Maybe took the crooks a little longer to find the car is all.

change???

Toyota 'Reviewing' Key Fob Remote Start Subscription Plan After Massive Blowback

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/21/12/23/237209/toyota-revie...

We're all young at heart. It's just that some of us age better than others.

In a parking lot of 100 cars keys without the FOB would be eons harder to figure out the vehicle without being noticed, unless the keys were on the ground next to the car they belonged to, or course. Not impossible but not easy like walking around listening for a horn. People forget where they park, it's wouldn't be that odd to see someone doing that. But trying keys in the door of different types/ models of car should be. Yes, most keys will tell you the manufacturer but not the model.

In any event never said I'd shy away, I love my key FOB, just mentioned one flaw.

Yesterday I was in my wife's car, she has the keyless FOB, she started the car and remembered she left something in the house so she got out to get the item and as soon as she got out of the running car a bell started ringing with a note on the instrument panel that the key fob has left the vehicle. Now I didn't try it but I'd wager it wouldn't go into gear without that fob in the car. It didn't stop ringing until she was actually in the car, not just next to it.

By the way I'd like to wish everyone and their family a very Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year.

^^I think for safety reasons, the car would go into gear and not shut off. However, once off it could not be restarted.

Try it next time and report back.

Haven't tried it but reading up on the subject looks like it will run as normal until it is turned off or runs out of gas. I guess, like you say, for safety reasons, in case the FOB battery died while driving.

Mine, a FOB with a key attached and remote start, will run for 15 minutes (remotely started) and shut off if the key isn't inserted within the 15 minutes and you cannot put it in gear without the key.

It's been over a decade since I had car with a key. My old camaro used a resistor within the key to immobilizer the starter. Not very high tech by today's standards. Also, that car was a manual so absolutely no remote start.

Since then the habit has been to always keep the fob in pocket.

I was reading up on the 2022 hyundai sonata. Instead of the fob, one can place their phone or a rfid enabled card next to do the door lock to unlock. Seems more hassle than its worth to me. With fob in pocket I just press a button on the door, it unlocks. Getting the phone out, opening an app, etc seems like a hassle.

I do wish my stinger had a remote trunk unlock. Not necessarily open the hatch, but just unlock it. This is not available on base models.

My FOB lasted for 4 years before batteries replaced. Learned a lesson that I should have change the batteries in wife's FOB at the same time. Even though hers was rarely use. 2 weeks later her batteries showed low on Ford display screen. She always carries her keys when we travel.

My '17 F-350 not only has a key, but has crank windows. Crank windows for a crank driver.

That's just technology run amok. I guess nobody thought that anyone would ever be standing in a pouring rainstorm fumbling with their phone and an app just to open the door. STUPID IDEA!

^^Unlikely its an issue for today's youth who's glued to their phones anyway.

Or, lets take it to another level, they have a smart watch and perform necessary steps on the watch.

^^^^ Now you're compairing "apples to oranges".
But, if there is a smartwatch that can open your car door than we can discuss that.....:}

https://www.hyundainews.com/en-us/releases/1969

To use a phone and app as a regular way to open a door or start a car is something I doubt many do.

But as a backup to a lost fob when you're far from home and a backup fob, a smartphone app could be a lifesaver. I haven't needed it yet but I feel better having the option with my Subaru.

My keyfob on our 2012 Lincoln MKX was the root cause of our liftgate opening and closing on its own. I came out from various businesses only to find our liftgate wide open. These cars are known for computer maladies, so that’s what I thought it was.

But my wife said that it never happened to her. We use different fobs, so that was the clue. Took my fob apart—it’s easy—and inside a small, conducive piece had come loose off the inside of the liftgate button. Sliding around, it was making contact and completing a circuit, sending signals to my car.

Glued it back on with silicone caulk (it needs to be flexible) and no problem since. Alternatively, one could order a replacement key fob shell, for about $15, and pull the printed circuit board from the original shell to the new one. It’s easy. Maybe, a five minute job.

Cars are getting too complex.

I was having the same problem, I was told that you can not keep your FOB close to the car even if its in the house. I now keep the Fob on other side of house and have no problems. My car is a 2018 Camaro.

Well that's annoying. The logical place to routinely keep keys is inside the house in the room nearest the garage, driveway, or street where the car is kept. Ya gotta love these upgraded modern features that make life a little harder.

Cars in the future;

"Open sesame"....

In reading through these various posts, I'm wondered what is the advantage of a push button start?

During the mid 1950's my father, a farmer, drove a 1939 Chevrolet pickup truck. It too had a pushbutton start but the pushbutton starter was on the floor beside the gas pedal. Starting was more difficult back during that time. First you had to pull out both the choke and throttle knobs manually. After pumping the gas pedal, the ignition key was turned to the right, the floor starter knob was pushed by foot that made the engine turn over. Sometimes it would take a while to 'git 'er going in cold weather or if you flooded the engine.

It seems the simplicity of inserting a key and turning it to the right is as simple and easy as it gets. Adding a pushbutton starter to a key fob seems contrived and redundant. Simplicity needs no grease. Likely I'm missing something and there's much more to a pushbutton key fob starter than what might first appear to a casual observer.

The way I see it, the biggest convenience is not having to remove the key from pocket to open doors or start vehicle. This still provides some level of security from someone stealing your car. Otherwise, why have keys at all...

I don't use remote start, even on the coldest mornings. That may be a concern for someone who likes to enter a warm vehicle.

Few motorcycles ago, my concours (2008) had keyless ignition. It used a similar system where the fob was pocket based.

They didn't think it through thoroughly. Key was still needed to open the gas tank or the panniers. At the end of the day, on that vehicle, a traditional key would of been cheaper and simpler, esp since the initial design had issues with the steering lock solenoid freezing up some times. The next bike, a fz1 was old school.

Another benefit could be that in the past, those with keyrings with lots of keys, etc. would occasionally have their lock fail and have to be replaced from the stress of the keys and gravity&bumps.

As I posted earlier in the thread, my wife fell victim to this issue. She left the fob on her dresser in the bedroom above the garage. It was close enough for the car to start and she drove out. When she went to lock the car at the mall, she discovered the fob wasn't in her purse. She was unable to start the car and had to call for help.

The small blue dash "missing key" warning light is barely noticeable. There needs to be a better warning method. A klaxon horn comes to mind.

Of course it's is not a good idea to leave a engine of any type running in your garage. Your car, backup generator etc. But the garage should not have any paths for air to enter the house either. It would be a good idea to do an inspection and fix all the possible ways ways that air could enter the house from the garage. Holes and cracks in the drywall. Worn out weather strip on the man door. Door closer not working.

I would never buy a vehicle without remote start. My truck is parked in the garage in winter so I don't use it there. But when away from home. The windows are easier to clean and the seats/interior are warm.

Toyota is in trouble with it's customers. Starting in 2019 on some of their models. The remote start from the key fob does not work unless you have the cell connected service from them. This is showing up now because most models came with the service free for 3 years. Toyota released a statement that this was not intended but they may not be able to fix it??????

There are 3 problems...

The first 2 are security issue, the second is an annoyance.

1st:

IFF
▪︎THE FOB CAN SEE THE CAR
AND IFF
▪︎THE CAR IS SET TO LOCK / UNLOCK AS YOU APPROACH OR LEAVE

ITS POSSIBLE THE CAR MAY NOT BE LOCKED WHEN YOU'RE IN THE IN / NEAR / AROUND CAR!

( I encountered this at someone's house and some kind people came and robbed the car whilst I was inside! )

2nd:

There are some objects you might set the FOB on that extends the effective transmission distance of the FOB. For example: You might set the FOB on a metalic object ( or other object ) that changes the attinuation of the FOB. Hence, the car could be unlocked and you've no idea that's the case.

In some situations this can be useful.

For example, if you want to remote start your car and its just a little to far away, pressing your FOB firmly against your chin while pressing the appropriate buttons on the FOB "can" extend the "reach" of your FOB's distance. If you have, a remote garage door opener, you can do the same thing.

3rd:

The FOB is like your cell phone. The FOB is always trying to "connect" to something. When the FOB is connected, then it continues to communicate its connected.

So the FOB's battery is always "burning power."

If there's only one driver, two (2) FOB's and you only use 1 fob continually, when the fob you use primilary runs out of power, the one you don't use will likely be dead as well.

So these a couple of ways,yo keep the second unused fob from being dead when you need to use it.

A) Remove the battery from the FOB and place the FOB & battery together.

B) Put a thin film between the battery and the contact plate in the FOB.

And finally, after my experience with the car being unlocked when I didn't know the FOB was talking to the car, I purchased a couple small "Faraday" bags to store my FOB's in.

One Faraday bag is on my dresser with the FOB & Battery in it. The other Faraday bag, is in my pocket. When I get out of the cat, I put the FOB in my Faraday bag and put the bag in my pocket.

Whew!

I'm sure I could say something else but right now, I can't think of what it would / should be and my thumb's tired!

that is good info. As I read, it uses cellular signal which allows tracking vehicle as a bonus. I am wondering if bluetooth connection suffices most needs as it is rare to start the car across CONUS, just my opinion.

That makes sense. It should work. But many users won't bother or may not realize they need to do something like that until they've had a problem.

I liked the momentary, slight convenience of keyless start in one vehicle we had for a couple years before it was totaled in a flash flood while parked. There is no keyless start feature in the higher-clearance vehicle we bought to replace it. I don't miss it. To me it's not worth paying extra for, but often there's no choice, as it's likely to either be standard or an option that comes bundled with another option you really do want.

@GlobeTurtle "So I'll keep my little key fob-less civic for as long as I can."

I had a 94 Civic Hatchback, the generation before yours. Wonderful car. Cheap, reliable and fun to drive. You are right. Modern cars and SUVs with high belt lines and thick windshield pillars (because of the airbags) are much harder to see out of. Outward visibility for parking and turning is not nearly as good. My 94 is still on the road. I sold it because it had a few issues and an 18 year old car is not fun to drive in big city traffic jams. The two owners since me have both loved it.

Keyless entry and ignition are one of the best features of my vehicle. Had it for a decade and no problems. It always gives lots of warning when the FOB battery is getting weak.

The ability to put the fob in a zippered pocket and not pull it out every time I need to lock or unlock the car is priceless, especially for shopping trips, road trips, water activities like kayaking when I can put the fob in an Aquapac and not worry about it at all.

One thing I have heard is you should use the key that is stored in the fob occasionally to unlock the door and trunk. It's possible that if not used for years it might be seized up if the fob battery dies and you need to unlock it with the kay.

If only I had a hole in the trunk to stick the key into.... No such luck on the stingers.

2/3 of our cars have the smart key. 1/2 with the smart key still requires the ignition to be twisted to start, no push to start.

Anyway, one thing I do like about smart keys is touching the handles to unlock a door. 1 car is 2 door, the other 4 door. When handle is touched to unlock, only that door is unlocked.

With the traditional fob, pushing unlock first unlocks the driver's door, again, all the doors.

Unlike the smart key, one could enter the rear right, and only that door would unlock. imho? Saves wear/tear on the actuators as well.

Opening one or all locks with a smart key (push button or door handle touched) is usually adjustable through the convenience settings in the car's dash.

I set it to open all doors because it's a pain to have to push the button again if I want to enter the rear. Usually only the front doors have the buttons or sensors to unlock. Never seen it on a rear door.

It's also a security feature against potential carjackers. My wife appreciates this feature when getting into her car at the mall. Unlocking just the drivers door prevents someone from entering the vehicle from on of the other doors.