interesting observation / 2 cars PA state inspection

 

Since my cars aren't remotely new, I do dread the annual safety inspection. Emissions I do not, if I don't have a service engine light, I know my emissions are good.

Well, both cars passed.

The $29.95 coupon is $42.50 hahahahahahahahaha $9 sticker fee, sales tax, shop fees, amazing.

Interesting was that on my sedan, they recommended 4 new tires--this isn't upselling, the tires are nearly shot. I measured that morning and they were 3/32.

The interesting thing? They recommended some ultra high performance all seasons, which I too would want, and it was $6/tire less than the internet! That is good to see that the indie shop can compete!

But I politely said I run snow tires so I can put this off until next year. Then, I will get Michelin Pilot Sport AS4s which are actually cheaper than what they recommended, just that the Michelins wear faster.

Once again, so many tires are like the 52 oz quart of orange juice and 9/32" brand new. No bueno.

On a side note I think I broke the Nitrogen machine at Costco, wth? It said SPeR. The people there couldn't figure it out so said just pull up. They have self serve nitrogen now.

A Few PA Counties..

johnnatash4 wrote:

Since my cars aren't remotely new, I do dread the annual safety inspection. Emissions I do not, if I don't have a service engine light, I know my emissions are good.

There are still a few rural counties in PA that are exempt from emissions testing. I'm fortunate enough to live in one of them.

Anyway, I'm glad your vehicles are good to go.

Curious on your N

johnnatash4 wrote:

I think I broke the Nitrogen machine at Costco

I'm interested in which benefit of Nitrogen you hope to get?

--
personal GPS user since 1992

A few years ago

I got sucked into the "Nitrogen" in my tires when I bought a set of four new ones at an extra charge of course. I noticed absolutely no difference, but after a while the tires need the air upped. Where the he77 can you find Nitrogen to refill????? I didn't so a regular air compressor was used.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Nitrogen is simply a money maker

archae86 wrote:
johnnatash4 wrote:

I think I broke the Nitrogen machine at Costco

I'm interested in which benefit of Nitrogen you hope to get?

To the typical car owner there is no benefit to nitrogen and absolutely no need to pay extra for it!. The hoopla came out because long haul trucks and especially commercial aircraft can in theory benefit. For aircraft, it is very critical to have dry inert gas in the tires. At 35,000 feet the typical temperature outside aircraft is -60 deg F so as you can imagine any moisture in the air would freeze. For long haul trucks, the theory is that a nitrogen molecule is large than an oxygen molecule and therefor the leakage through the sidewall is slower. But for passenger car tires the sidewall leakage is slow. Better to just check tie pressures quarterly (or sooner). And if you have a donut spare check it as well; they are often forgotten.

By the way the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen.

--
John from PA

Nitrogen isn't inert

John from PA wrote:
archae86 wrote:
johnnatash4 wrote:

I think I broke the Nitrogen machine at Costco

I'm interested in which benefit of Nitrogen you hope to get?

To the typical car owner there is no benefit to nitrogen and absolutely no need to pay extra for it!. The hoopla came out because long haul trucks and especially commercial aircraft can in theory benefit. For aircraft, it is very critical to have dry inert gas in the tires. At 35,000 feet the typical temperature outside aircraft is -60 deg F so as you can imagine any moisture in the air would freeze. For long haul trucks, the theory is that a nitrogen molecule is large than an oxygen molecule and therefor the leakage through the sidewall is slower. But for passenger car tires the sidewall leakage is slow. Better to just check tie pressures quarterly (or sooner). And if you have a donut spare check it as well; they are often forgotten.

By the way the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen.

No offense, and just a nit: Nitrogen isn't an inert gas. The inert gases, also known as the noble gases, are helium , neon, argon, krypton, xenon, and radon.

Phil

--
"No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse."

Depends on the definition

plunder wrote:
John from PA wrote:
archae86 wrote:
johnnatash4 wrote:

I think I broke the Nitrogen machine at Costco

I'm interested in which benefit of Nitrogen you hope to get?

To the typical car owner there is no benefit to nitrogen and absolutely no need to pay extra for it!. The hoopla came out because long haul trucks and especially commercial aircraft can in theory benefit. For aircraft, it is very critical to have dry inert gas in the tires. At 35,000 feet the typical temperature outside aircraft is -60 deg F so as you can imagine any moisture in the air would freeze. For long haul trucks, the theory is that a nitrogen molecule is large than an oxygen molecule and therefor the leakage through the sidewall is slower. But for passenger car tires the sidewall leakage is slow. Better to just check tie pressures quarterly (or sooner). And if you have a donut spare check it as well; they are often forgotten.

By the way the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen.

No offense, and just a nit: Nitrogen isn't an inert gas. The inert gases, also known as the noble gases, are helium , neon, argon, krypton, xenon, and radon.

Phil

Somewhat depends on definition; I meant it to mean non-reactive when used in a tire. Quoting from https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/air-quality/nitrogen

"Molecular nitrogen is a colorless, odorless, tasteless, and inert gas at normal temperatures and pressures."

Numerous other reputable sources also refer to nitrogen as inert, again clarifying that this holds true under certain conditions, one of which is the common pneumatic tire.

Wikepedia, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas, states "Purified argon and nitrogen gases are most commonly used as inert gases due to their high natural abundance (78.3% N2, 1% Ar in air) and low relative cost."

--
John from PA

We should include

plunder wrote:

No offense, and just a nit: Nitrogen isn't an inert gas. The inert gases, also known as the noble gases, are helium , neon, argon, krypton, xenon, and radon.

Phil

Methane! smile !

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

kind of interesting

nitrogen is free at Costco, and now they have machines to self serve. So when using them, it becomes controversial as to why one would do that hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Even Costco says you are perfectly fine to use air. They're not pushing anything and I even bet if you told them I don't want green caps on my valve stems advertising that you filled my tires with nitrogen, they'd probably get some used black ones for you out of a coffee can (techs do not throw usable parts away).

The benefit I feel is since they have nitrogen already, and now there are pumps installed at Costco, and they are free to use? It saves wear and tear on my 2 air compressors at home.

It may have been here where someone pointed out the molecules are larger so they will take longer to get through the sidewall and so the psi will remain correct for longer. Is it that big of a deal hehe

Nitrogen molecule larger

johnnatash4 wrote:

It may have been here where someone pointed out the molecules are larger so they will take longer to get through the sidewall and so the psi will remain correct for longer. Is it that big of a deal hehe

I was the one early in this thread that made the statement that a nitrogen molecule is arguably larger than oxygen (it depends on measurement method) and so it is said the leakage rate is slower when using pure nitrogen. But the effect is very negligible and the main benefit occurs to the vendor when they ask you to pay for nitrogen. Simply DON’T pay for it. I can remember early on tire dealers charging as much as $7 a tire; how did you even know you were getting nitrogen? In addition, a well known Chester County PA senator arranged for a state grant of $25K for a local car dealer to get nitrogen dispensing equipment.

Consumer Reports did a study in 2006 where they measured pressure loss of nitrogen-filled tires vs. air-filled tires over a one year period. They took 31 pairs of all season, automotive tires (H and V speed rated). One tire of each pair was filled to 30 psi with air, the other tire from the pair was filled to 30 psi with nitrogen. All 31 pairs were then set aside, outdoors for 12 months.

Their conclusion was that nitrogen does reduce tire pressure loss over time, but the reduction is only 1.3 psi.

Air-filled tires, originally filled to 30 psi lost 3.5 psi over a one year period. Nitrogen-filled to the same starting pressure of 30 psi lost 2.2 psi over the same period.

More importantly ALL tires lost pressure, so consumers should check their tire pressures routinely regardless of the gas used to fill their tires.

--
John from PA

on the

subject of tires, I always felt that knock offs could be compromising. I remember seeing a tire test where no surprise Michelin Pilot Super Sports came in #1. They were OE on the Ferrari 599GTB at the time. I have them on one of my cars and it's amazing I personally believe they were quite affordable. They were significantly cheaper than what came with the car.

On another test for all seasons, again Michelin won with the Pilot Sport A/S and it may have been the original it was so long ago. There was a complete rip off of the tread in the test called Nankang. They said these tires were so bad, the other tires in the test outperformed them in the wet, with the Nankangs in the dry.

Well, my used 2006 car came with some knock off tires called Rydanz--Engineered in Europe, Made in China. I was gonna toss them and my wife said really? Well, flash forward I've had them 5 years and they have been fine, in wet, and dry. These were the ones now at 3/32 where in the inspection they recommended replacement.

I'm not so sure no namers are junk today, it is a common new car dealer selling a used car trick.

I went to a lexus dealer near me and they emailed me a pdf of the work order preparing a car for resale, and it had the pns of the Dunlop SP OE tires, at some crazy $240/ea price. When I got there and looked at the car it had no name knockoffs....this is exactly what was done on my 2006 used car.

When they photographed the car for cars.com? They took the full sized spare, with a mint OE rim, and unused spare, armor alled it, and mounted it for the pic. You can still see the red and yellow dots, and there are grease pencil markings from Tahara aishi 2005! After the photo session they put it back in the trunk. Car dealers sure know a lot of tricks! That led me to believe it had new Dunlops, not new Rydanz.

PV=NRT

I find that I need to adjust my tire pressure every ~3 months for seasonal temperature changes. The ability of a tire to retain pressure for 12 months is unimportant.

Always remember the universal gas law:

PV=NRT

excellent

also V=iR, these are just things that everyone should know.

I get the sense these days many don't know don't care.

Like when I said my new hvac was blowing 43F at the vents, one person here sounded the alarm. Sure enough in about another week the compressor froze up. All these others were saying that's good it's cooling your house down hahahahahahahaha

psi drops

minke wrote:

I find that I need to adjust my tire pressure every ~3 months for seasonal temperature changes. The ability of a tire to retain pressure for 12 months is unimportant.

Always remember the universal gas law:

PV=NRT

Every 3 months? I'm finding my new car with low profile tires (245/40/18) seems even more sensitive to temp change. I check weekly or after large temp changes. Older car with 235/50/17 didn't seem as sensitive.

FYI ... tires made in ...

johnnatash4 wrote:

subject of tires, I always felt that knock offs could be compromising. I remember seeing a tire test where no surprise Michelin Pilot Super Sports came in #1. ~snip~

Well, my used 2006 car came with some knock off tires called Rydanz--Engineered in Europe, Made in China. ~snip~.

What tire brands are made in China?

Several top global brands such as Michelin (two production plants), Bridgestone (six plants), Goodyear (two plants), Continental (two plants), Pirelli (two plants), Yokohama (three plants), Hankook (four plants), and Kumho (three plants) are present in China through their manufacturing units.

https://www.tirereview.com/china-rise-tire-companies-making-...

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

.

So is putting Nitrogen in tires just a bunch of . . . hot air?

Not really

perpster wrote:

So is putting Nitrogen in tires just a bunch of . . . hot air?

IMO, the real value of using Nitrogen is that it contains no moisture because of the process by which it is extracted from the atmosphere. It is not that Nitrogen has special properties, but that it avoids the potential disadvantages of filling the tires from the atmosphere.

If you use air supplied by a compressor that ingests the local air, there will be a certain amount of moisture in the supply, especially on a rainy day. When the tires heat up while driving, that moisture can potentially create a significant increase in pressure that causes the tires to operate at undesirably high pressures.

- Tom -

--
XXL540, GO LIVE 1535, GO 620

As an engineer, much of this is garbage...

-et- wrote:
perpster wrote:

So is putting Nitrogen in tires just a bunch of . . . hot air?

IMO, the real value of using Nitrogen is that it contains no moisture because of the process by which it is extracted from the atmosphere. It is not that Nitrogen has special properties, but that it avoids the potential disadvantages of filling the tires from the atmosphere.

If you use air supplied by a compressor that ingests the local air, there will be a certain amount of moisture in the supply, especially on a rainy day. When the tires heat up while driving, that moisture can potentially create a significant increase in pressure that causes the tires to operate at undesirably high pressures.

- Tom -

Entirely too much of this "could happen", "might happen", "can potentially create", etc.. The fact of the matter is it would take a great number of circumstances to a fall in line for it to happen. Tires only get to about 130 to 150 deg on a hot day and after driving a 100 miles. The effect of moisture, while it can happen, will only happen if you have a severely underinflated tire. Check you tire inflation on a regular basis, and these crazy scenarios are simply not going to occur.

--
John from PA

non reactive = less reactive

rubbers oxidise
filling the tyre with nitrogen is "supposed" to both reduce leakage, and reduce degradation of the rubber

I don't know if it is true, if it is true I don't know if it is a significant improvement
I do know I want the people flying the plane I might be riding in to take every option no matter how trivial

--
If only ..

I for one

almostbob wrote:

rubbers oxidise
filling the tyre with nitrogen is "supposed" to both reduce leakage, and reduce degradation of the rubber

I don't know if it is true, if it is true I don't know if it is a significant improvement
I do know I want the people flying the plane I might be riding in to take every option no matter how trivial

And slap my wrist if you want, have never believed in throwing away good tires, or a baby seat for that matter, just because it's 6 years old.

I do know that today, tire shops tell people when tires are 6, they are "unsafe" and must be replaced.

Baby seats are the same--they expire at age 6. Can you imagine that in 3rd world countries, they may not even have tires or baby seats, yet we are so developed we throw these items away? Actually, my theory is they are picked out of the trash if they make it. There is an entire used tire market in the Hunts Point Bronx, Willets Point Queens, Essignton Ave. W Phila, etc.

Nitrogen in tires.

archae86 wrote:
johnnatash4 wrote:

I think I broke the Nitrogen machine at Costco

I'm interested in which benefit of Nitrogen you hope to get?

I don't have nitrogen in my tires so Costco's pumps don't help me.
I will they had free air. It is near impossible to find free air for my tires. This should be offered by gas stations when you fill up your tank.

If the Nitrogen is free, use

If the Nitrogen is free, use the Costco pumps. You will never notice the difference.

--
Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

tires

johnnatash4 wrote:

And slap my wrist if you want, have never believed in throwing away good tires, or a baby seat for that matter, just because it's 6 years old.

I do know that today, tire shops tell people when tires are 6, they are "unsafe" and must be replaced.

~snip~

They tell you that because the oils and other compounds in the rubber break down and start to dry out at around 6 years. They start to develop a million little hairline cracks all over the sidewall. At that point the tire is dangerous at high speed, could blow at any time. Even if you don't see the cracks not all damage to old tires is visible.

For me the tires are the most important thing to keep an eye on, especially if you do a lot of highway driving. I rather replace them than have a blowout and possible crash which would cost a lot more than a new set of tires.

I guess in third world countries they can't afford to be choosy, and I know tires aren't cheap, I have a Jeep Wrangler with slightly oversize tires, but for me the safety of changing them out over rules everything else.

I take good care of my tires, keep the pressure consistent as it changes throughout the year with the temperature, I even do a 5 tire rotation on a regular basis. Putting the spare in the mix gives me about 10% longer use milagewise and the spare doesn't rot out from never being used. I've seen a few tires like that, look brand new, have plenty of tread, but if you look closely you see the little cracks.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

free air is out there

bsp131 wrote:

It is near impossible to find free air for my tires. This should be offered by gas stations when you fill up your tank.

Check one of your local convenience type of stores. Here in southeast Pennsylvania virtually all Wawa's offer free air, as well as most
Casey’s
GetGo
Holiday Stationstores
Kum & Go
QuikTrip
Royal Farms
and Sheetz

Having said that I notice from your profile that you "hail" from New Hyde Park. I don't think anything is free up there!

--
John from PA

IMHO

I think it's worth it to get an air compressor that uses the battery from whatever family of tools you might use at home. Me it's the 20V XR Dewalt. Again I say an unplanned lunch or dinner with the family is the same amount, so it's ok to let the moths fly! I use it on my bike too, wheelbarrow, cart, snowblower, so worth it...$89 when I got it 2 years ago....this way I don't have to get out the real air compressor. Esp in the winter, if the hose hits the car door, there will be a ding, and overkill waiting for the tank to fill up....

https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DCC020IB-20V-Inflator-Bare/dp/...

Discount Tire (AKA Americas Tire)

John from PA wrote:
bsp131 wrote:

It is near impossible to find free air for my tires. This should be offered by gas stations when you fill up your tank.

Check one of your local convenience type of stores. Here in southeast Pennsylvania virtually all Wawa's offer free air, as well as most
Casey’s
GetGo
Holiday Stationstores
Kum & Go
QuikTrip
Royal Farms
and Sheetz

Having said that I notice from your profile that you "hail" from New Hyde Park. I don't think anything is free up there!

Discount Tire (aka Americas Tire) will set your pressure free.

DT is 15 miles away. I have

DT is 15 miles away. I have an old 12 gal craftsman air compressor. It's suitable for airing up tires and taking off lug nuts.

Take one of these on long trips just in case.

https://www.viaircorp.com/portables/87p

88P

zx1100e1 wrote:

DT is 15 miles away. I have an old 12 gal craftsman air compressor. It's suitable for airing up tires and taking off lug nuts.

Take one of these on long trips just in case.

https://www.viaircorp.com/portables/87p

I have the 88P, good compressor for what it is.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

This and the previous mentioned 87P have screw air chuck

soberbyker wrote:
zx1100e1 wrote:

DT is 15 miles away. I have an old 12 gal craftsman air compressor. It's suitable for airing up tires and taking off lug nuts.

Take one of these on long trips just in case.

https://www.viaircorp.com/portables/87p

I have the 88P, good compressor for what it is.

I see both the previous mentioned 87P and this 88P have the screw type air chuck as opposed to the lever type. Do you guys feel you can get it removed quick enough to not lose an appreciable amount of pressure?

Is that area of the fins plastic or some form of a metal casting

--
John from PA

I love the PS AS 4! Okay

I love the PS AS 4! Okay enough for winter and has great tread life.

Re screw on valve

Re screw on valve fitting;

Doesn't really matter how much air it would lose. Say my target is 37 or 38 psi (car sticker says 36F, 39R). I would inflate to 40 psi then using a proper gauge, release air until desired psi is achieved. The gauges built into these things are not accurate at all IMO.

The fins are metal. That whole area gets quite hot during use.

ditto

John from PA wrote:

I see both the previous mentioned 87P and this 88P have the screw type air chuck as opposed to the lever type. Do you guys feel you can get it removed quick enough to not lose an appreciable amount of pressure?

Is that area of the fins plastic or some form of a metal casting

zx1100e1 wrote:

Re screw on valve fitting;

Doesn't really matter how much air it would lose. Say my target is 37 or 38 psi (car sticker says 36F, 39R). I would inflate to 40 psi then using a proper gauge, release air until desired psi is achieved. The gauges built into these things are not accurate at all IMO.

The fins are metal. That whole area gets quite hot during use.

What he said, just overfill a tad and adjust with the release pin on my (stand alone) gauge, although I've seen you don't lose much at all. Yes on the metal, overall it's a well built little unit.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

nitrogen

I heard that nitrogen does not do anything.

the

ceevee wrote:

I love the PS AS 4! Okay enough for winter and has great tread life.

the vehicle in question is RWD (2/3 of our cars are) and I found that 1-2" of snow and as tires, defying common sense, it starts to fishtail. My other RWD car when we used to get snow, although I tend to keep it garaged and off the roads in the winter, could make it through 9" of snow despite being very low, with 4 snow tires. This is the car the Costco guy said "those tires are dangerous, from 2008."

But I do plan on getting the AS4 next year, and still run snows.

I think but am not sure, that Costco does the winter tire changeover for free. How else is it going to be recorded if I do it myself? Meaning the odometer may have said 40,000 miles elapsed and warranty expired, but maybe 18k was on snows, not the all seasons. They are on rims which makes it pretty cumbersome. Even though the trunk is 20 cu ft I think 2 have to go in the back seat, which is not good.

Got the PS AS 4's here too.

Got the PS AS 4's here too. Don't really drive much in the snow. Though they say it can handle "light" snow. If I had to commute daily in the winter, i'd be getting dedicated winter tires too.

For the dry, it's decent enough. Had PSS's on a different car. Great tire but a bit overkill.