20 mph speed limit

 

Are you referring to the new “default” in place on June 1st?

Are you referring to the new default that is in place June 1st?

See https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/05/29/dc-will-lower-the-s...

--
John from PA

Mayor's statement: “One

Mayor's statement:
“One thing that we have for sure learned with less traffic on the street is that people are driving faster, and we see it all over,” Bowser said in a press conference. “While it may seem like a small change, we know that surviving accidents is strongly correlated to speed, and lowering the speed limit will help us keep people safe.”

This is what nonsense elected officals come up with.

Then I would think banning cars completely would mean 0 speed, that should be even better. Back to horse and buggy, make the NAtional Guard patrol the streets arresting those who dare to drive.

--
I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

I actually find this to be true...

KenSny wrote:

Mayor's statement:
“One thing that we have for sure learned with less traffic on the street is that people are driving faster, and we see it all over,” Bowser said in a press conference. “While it may seem like a small change, we know that surviving accidents is strongly correlated to speed, and lowering the speed limit will help us keep people safe.”

This is what nonsense elected officals come up with.

Then I would think banning cars completely would mean 0 speed, that should be even better. Back to horse and buggy, make the NAtional Guard patrol the streets arresting those who dare to drive.

I actually find this to be true. Even before reading this yesterday, while traveling a rural road with a 45 mph speed limit I noticed a great number of cars pushing 60, some even slightly over (like me). I know the road well and 60 isn’t a danger when the traffic volume is low, which it was. It is a road that is well watched by the local police, and although they seem to be out, I’ve observed they don’t seem to be on the move and are concentrated more in parking lots near highways.

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John from PA

.

John from PA wrote:

~snip~

It is a road that is well watched by the local police, and although they seem to be out, I’ve observed they don’t seem to be on the move and are concentrated more in parking lots near highways.

Curious, do you mean they seem to do speed checks from parking lots for the main highways as opposed to while rolling down a road?

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Maybe the mayor enjoyed her

Maybe the mayor enjoyed her car not being in traffic and surrounded by the local riff-raff while she was driven to city hall.

Police are sitting in parking lots? Why? Protecting the politicans cars?

--
I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

Our locals are limited on speed checks...

soberbyker wrote:
John from PA wrote:

~snip~

It is a road that is well watched by the local police, and although they seem to be out, I’ve observed they don’t seem to be on the move and are concentrated more in parking lots near highways.

Curious, do you mean they seem to do speed checks from parking lots for the main highways as opposed to while rolling down a road?

No, our local police in Pennsylvania aren’t allowed to use laser or radar; State Police can use electronic devices, laser, and radar included. Locals can time you crossing markets or use an electronic timing device (tape on road). It is just that normally you see the local police in motion on the highways, but these days they tend to be sitting in parking lots. I just returned from a grocery store 5 miles from home, and saw three local police vehicles, but all were stationary in lots facing the highway. Keep in mind it is tough to work from home for law enforcement patrol personnel, and I know locally that the local office has limited desk space, even less these days. So I don’t think the police are sitting around the office much, they are out in their vehicles.

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John from PA

I know, I'm from PA too ...

John from PA wrote:
soberbyker wrote:
John from PA wrote:

~snip~

It is a road that is well watched by the local police, and although they seem to be out, I’ve observed they don’t seem to be on the move and are concentrated more in parking lots near highways.

Curious, do you mean they seem to do speed checks from parking lots for the main highways as opposed to while rolling down a road?

No, our local police in Pennsylvania aren’t allowed to use laser or radar; State Police can use electronic devices, laser, and radar included. Locals can time you crossing markets or use an electronic timing device (tape on road). It is just that normally you see the local police in motion on the highways, but these days they tend to be sitting in parking lots. I just returned from a grocery store 5 miles from home, and saw three local police vehicles, but all were stationary in lots facing the highway. Keep in mind it is tough to work from home for law enforcement patrol personnel, and I know locally that the local office has limited desk space, even less these days. So I don’t think the police are sitting around the office much, they are out in their vehicles.

I was going to point that out if you said yes to my question, in fact the PA State Police (PSP) have to be stationary when using RADAR. The PSP can cite you using their speedometer by pacing you.

There is also a sort of cushion built into PA speed laws, must be at least 10 mph over the limit, in most situations, to write a ticket.

Only state in the country to not allow locals RADAR. Every legislative session there's a new bill to allow it, normally passes the Senate and doesn't get much traction in the House. This sessions bill #SB607 passed the Senate easily in two months, the House has had for a year now and only voted once (of 3 needed to pass)

Quote:

Referred to TRANSPORTATION, April 30, 2019
Reported as committed, June 12, 2019
First consideration, June 12, 2019
Second consideration, June 18, 2019
Re-referred to APPROPRIATIONS, June 18, 2019
Re-reported as committed, June 24, 2019
Third consideration and final passage, June 25, 2019 (49-1)

In the House
Referred to TRANSPORTATION, June 26, 2019
PN 1384
Reported as amended, Nov. 18, 2019
First consideration, Nov. 18, 2019
Laid on the table, Nov. 18, 2019
Removed from table, Nov. 21, 2019
Laid on the table, March 16, 2020
Removed from table, March 16, 2020
Laid on the table, May 4, 2020
Removed from table, May 4, 2020

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Don't trust that 10 mph cushion...

soberbyker wrote:

There is also a sort of cushion built into PA speed laws, must be at least 10 mph over the limit, in most situations, to write a ticket.

Don't trust that 10 mph. What the State Code states is

Quote:

(4) No person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraphs (2) and (3) unless the speed recorded is six or more miles per hour in excess of the legal speed limit. Furthermore, no person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph (3) in an area where the legal speed limit is less than 55 miles per hour if the speed recorded is less than ten miles per hour in excess of the legal speed limit. This paragraph shall not apply to evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph (2) or (3) within a school zone or an active work zone.

The referenced paragraph 2 addresses the use of radar while paragraph 3 addresses the use of "Electronic devices which calculate speed by measuring elapsed time between measured road surface points by using two sensors and devices which measure and calculate the average speed of a vehicle between any two points..."

--
John from PA

thanks

John from PA wrote:
soberbyker wrote:

There is also a sort of cushion built into PA speed laws, must be at least 10 mph over the limit, in most situations, to write a ticket.

Don't trust that 10 mph. What the State Code states is

Quote:

(4) No person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraphs (2) and (3) unless the speed recorded is six or more miles per hour in excess of the legal speed limit. Furthermore, no person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph (3) in an area where the legal speed limit is less than 55 miles per hour if the speed recorded is less than ten miles per hour in excess of the legal speed limit. This paragraph shall not apply to evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph (2) or (3) within a school zone or an active work zone.

The referenced paragraph 2 addresses the use of radar while paragraph 3 addresses the use of "Electronic devices which calculate speed by measuring elapsed time between measured road surface points by using two sensors and devices which measure and calculate the average speed of a vehicle between any two points..."

Thanks, I am aware of those exact measures. Although, I was speaking in general as to local police speed checks. I drive a commercial vehicle for a living and stay on top of the laws concerning driving. Apparently you are well aware as well. My original question to you was in case you weren't aware.

By the way, in case you didn't know this, according to a friend who is an ex PSP Trooper, the new gray cars/suvs are capable of 'rolling RADAR' something that is currently not allowed by law, but they are trying to get pushed through, although I have not seen any legislation referring to it yet. Current law says to use RADAR the RADAR unit must be stationary and not hidden, although I have seen them hidden behind the end of a wall along side of the highway, such as I-476 in Delaware County.

.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

local police

John from PA wrote:

~snip~

The referenced paragraph 2 addresses the use of radar while paragraph 3 addresses the use of "Electronic devices which calculate speed by measuring elapsed time between measured road surface points by using two sensors and devices which measure and calculate the average speed of a vehicle between any two points..."

Some larger departments who have the manpower are very speed check oriented and have gotten tricky with the archaic methods they must use.

In the past I've seen a department who uses the timing device know as VASCAR creatively. Along the route 30 bypass in Chester County there are business along the side of the road but set way back. They put an unmarked car along the highway way past the "white lines" they have painted on the road the measure your speed with and a car with VASCAR will be in the parking lot of one of those businesses with a pair of binoculars hitting the switch of the VASCAR as you cross the lines and radioing the car on the highway the speeds. Same department used the binocular trick at the top of a long hill, where the lines are about midway up, on Route 100.

A department in DELCO will use an old pickup truck parked in a house driveway along Rt 3, again checking the white lines, and radio the cars up ahead with speeds.

In MONTCO there's a department that uses ENRADD to record speeds just before the peak of a hill, several 'chase' cars on the other side of the hill await you.

Speed detection in PA for local police is manpower intensive and not all departments can afford to have an officer, or more, do full time enforcement.

The one thing local police have in their favor is the only way they can be detected is with your eyes, there are no RADAR detector type devices that can alert you to their presence using things like VASCAR, ENRADD, ROBIC, stop watches, etc.

.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

common

Common sense is that 20 mph is very slow.

If not mistaken DC is a mysterious place when it comes to speed cams--it's posted where they are, but not what the threshold is for getting a ticket. Meaning in MD has to be 12 mph, 11 mph OK. Believe that Phila did the same with 12 mph. DC has a fine for 5, but never said if they issue for 5. Well I unknowingly went about 10 over in DC and never got a speed cam ticket.

There was a street in s Jersey that was a 15, huh? One thing led to another and I was doing 62 mph per my dash cam, Explorer lit it up going the other way, so I pulled over. When the cops banged a U-ey and got behind me, I was thinking what are they doing like debating one another who is gonna approach? When the female officer came up, she said they didn't mean for me to pull over, they were warning me that my speed was high. So they just told me to be careful. No exaggeration, in SoCal, the same road has a 55 mph speed limit. I went back later in the week to look, and there was a 15 mph sign. Showed it to a trooper buddy and he said he was not aware and no idea why.

Through all of this concern with speed limits and red lights, which imho isn't even an issue today as can be seen by the lack of any posts, common sense needs to prevail.

It was on the news this week in the DC area.

Apparently. the Mayor lowered the limit due too excessive speeding in residential areas.

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RKF (Bethesda, MD) Garmin Nuvi 660, 360 & Street Pilot

I have a distaste for equivocating

I have a distaste for equivocating. I don’t understand how a sign that reads 55 MPH means 64 MPH in secret code. Should a youth learning that think that the logic applies to taxes? Besides the law is ethical fudging OK too?

I recognize that being stone hard rigid has it’s problems. Momentary excesses such as passing on a two lane road should be OK but there still needs to be a line in the sand: 110 MPH is not OK for passing on a 55 MPH road.

I’d overlook the issue that few people remember how to round that they should have learned in arithmetic class. When people buy larger-than-standard tires their speedometers will read low. I can imaging an adult being talked into that by their 16 year-old and not recognize the consequence. Maybe get out-of-jail-free once if this happens?

I-25 thru Colorado Springs was a 55 MPH road for years. I’m told that it was engineered as a 55 MPH road. One day the mayor said that since everyone drove 65 he would make that legal and he did. Now everyone (but me, I’m a right lane slug) drives at >70 MPH. I don’t know if the accident rate changed.

To summarize my rant, I wish we could be truthful.

in PA

minke wrote:

I have a distaste for equivocating. I don’t understand how a sign that reads 55 MPH means 64 MPH in secret code.

~snip~

To summarize my rant, I wish we could be truthful.

The what I called a cushion (built into the law) is to account for human error in the devices the local police use, flip the switch a second or two to quickly, or the measured distance is off by a little etc., the speed reads differently.

At least this is what my memory brings me as the reasoning from reading up on the laws and watching the legislative debates on the bills before they become law.

I guess they figure at 10mph over you're speeding, even if off by a little.
.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Some background info on 55 mph limit and its changes

minke wrote:

I have a distaste for equivocating. I don’t understand how a sign that reads 55 MPH means 64 MPH in secret code. Should a youth learning that think that the logic applies to taxes? Besides the law is ethical fudging OK too?

I recognize that being stone hard rigid has it’s problems. Momentary excesses such as passing on a two lane road should be OK but there still needs to be a line in the sand: 110 MPH is not OK for passing on a 55 MPH road.

I’d overlook the issue that few people remember how to round that they should have learned in arithmetic class. When people buy larger-than-standard tires their speedometers will read low. I can imaging an adult being talked into that by their 16 year-old and not recognize the consequence. Maybe get out-of-jail-free once if this happens?

I-25 thru Colorado Springs was a 55 MPH road for years. I’m told that it was engineered as a 55 MPH road. One day the mayor said that since everyone drove 65 he would make that legal and he did. Now everyone (but me, I’m a right lane slug) drives at >70 MPH. I don’t know if the accident rate changed.

To summarize my rant, I wish we could be truthful.

The 55 mph speed limit was established on many highways back in 1974 as part of a fuel crisis. The limit was increased to 65 mph on certain interstate highways in 1987. But prior to the 55 mph speed limit the highway design on many roads permitted speeds well in excess of 55 mph. I can remember growing up in Ohio and the Ohio Turnpike, which opened in 1955, had a speed limit of 70 mph except in some areas.

These days, with the elimination of a national maximum speed limit, states needed a way to calculate the appropriate maximum speed limit for their roads. When setting speed limits, states generally set the limit at or near the 85th percentile speed, meaning the speed at or below which 85 percent of operators drive in normal conditions. This percentile approach was originally based on considerations related to safety, with research indicating that “traveling at or around one standard deviation above the mean operating speed…approximately the 85th percentile speed) yields the lowest crash risk for drivers.” I am even aware of some people who have used the 85th percentile rule to successfully fight a ticket; in other words everyone was going well over the posted limit. Critics of the percentile approach cite the fact that basing the speed on the behavior of drivers “assumes that motorists are aware of and select the safest speed” and point to the fact that “drivers are generally bad at accounting for the extreme limits of their driving.”

There are other methods of established speed limits; see https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa12004/fh... is interested. Needless to say there are Pros and cons to all the methods and valid arguments either way.

--
John from PA

Can we resolve our differences?

John from PA wrote:
minke wrote:

I have a distaste for equivocating. I don’t understand how a sign that reads 55 MPH means 64 MPH in secret code. Should a youth learning that think that the logic applies to taxes? Besides the law is ethical fudging OK too?

I recognize that being stone hard rigid has it’s problems. Momentary excesses such as passing on a two lane road should be OK but there still needs to be a line in the sand: 110 MPH is not OK for passing on a 55 MPH road.

I’d overlook the issue that few people remember how to round that they should have learned in arithmetic class. When people buy larger-than-standard tires their speedometers will read low. I can imaging an adult being talked into that by their 16 year-old and not recognize the consequence. Maybe get out-of-jail-free once if this happens?

I-25 thru Colorado Springs was a 55 MPH road for years. I’m told that it was engineered as a 55 MPH road. One day the mayor said that since everyone drove 65 he would make that legal and he did. Now everyone (but me, I’m a right lane slug) drives at >70 MPH. I don’t know if the accident rate changed.

To summarize my rant, I wish we could be truthful.

The 55 mph speed limit was established on many highways back in 1974 as part of a fuel crisis. The limit was increased to 65 mph on certain interstate highways in 1987. But prior to the 55 mph speed limit the highway design on many roads permitted speeds well in excess of 55 mph. I can remember growing up in Ohio and the Ohio Turnpike, which opened in 1955, had a speed limit of 70 mph except in some areas.

These days, with the elimination of a national maximum speed limit, states needed a way to calculate the appropriate maximum speed limit for their roads. When setting speed limits, states generally set the limit at or near the 85th percentile speed, meaning the speed at or below which 85 percent of operators drive in normal conditions. This percentile approach was originally based on considerations related to safety, with research indicating that “traveling at or around one standard deviation above the mean operating speed…approximately the 85th percentile speed) yields the lowest crash risk for drivers.” I am even aware of some people who have used the 85th percentile rule to successfully fight a ticket; in other words everyone was going well over the posted limit. Critics of the percentile approach cite the fact that basing the speed on the behavior of drivers “assumes that motorists are aware of and select the safest speed” and point to the fact that “drivers are generally bad at accounting for the extreme limits of their driving.”

There are other methods of established speed limits; see https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa12004/fh... is interested. Needless to say there are Pros and cons to all the methods and valid arguments either way.

I moved here in the early '90s and I'd guess that the speed limit in my example changed about 2000. If my geriatric memory is worth anything (always a fair question) a city traffic engineer answering a question from the press at that time said that the road was designed for 55. It also has an elevated section that has variable radius curves that I think violate interstate standards and maybe (I'm less sure of this) a curve too sharp.

soberbyker wrote:
minke wrote:

I have a distaste for equivocating. I don’t understand how a sign that reads 55 MPH means 64 MPH in secret code.

~snip~

To summarize my rant, I wish we could be truthful.

The what I called a cushion (built into the law) is to account for human error in the devices the local police use, flip the switch a second or two to quickly, or the measured distance is off by a little etc., the speed reads differently.

At least this is what my memory brings me as the reasoning from reading up on the laws and watching the legislative debates on the bills before they become law.

I guess they figure at 10mph over you're speeding, even if off by a little.
.

I recognize that there are practical reasons to say that 55 MPH ≡ 65 MPH. If I didn't give a a charity a donation can I tell the IRS that $0.00 ≡ $10.00?

Can we resolve our differences? (Recognizing that I'm putting words in your mouths) you say that something is reasonable and practical and I don't contest that. All that I can say is that I find it offensive. Also I am pleased to note that I found the equivalent symbol ≡ !!!

No I haven't but it is good

No I haven't but it is good to know.

65 / 55 Night

minke wrote:

I have a distaste for equivocating...
To summarize my rant, I wish we could be truthful.

My memory was jogged and I just remembered as a kid being on highways marked 65 with the standard black on white sign with an identical but white on black sign beneath it that said 55 Night. I wonder if that was nationwide or just Wisconsin.

My thoughts on speed limits and other fine-able events: if I exceeded the speed limit by any amount, jay-walked, etc., it's my own fault so I won't complain and will pay the ticket, takes the points, or whatever.

I do find these days that with cruise control (and now, the wonderful adaptive cruise control), it's so much easier to stay legal or near-legal.

Texas used to have signs

Texas used to have signs like that. Virginia used to have signs "Cars 55 Truck 45".

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Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

PA

phranc wrote:

Texas used to have signs like that. Virginia used to have signs "Cars 55 Truck 45".

PA still has some signs in the Pocono Mountains that have different speeds for cars and trucks.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

I understand ....

minke wrote:

I recognize that there are practical reasons to say that 55 MPH ≡ 65 MPH. If I didn't give a a charity a donation can I tell the IRS that $0.00 ≡ $10.00?

Can we resolve our differences? (Recognizing that I'm putting words in your mouths) you say that something is reasonable and practical and I don't contest that. All that I can say is that I find it offensive. Also I am pleased to note that I found the equivalent symbol ≡ !!!

However, I was mentioning the law and possible reasons for it, I did not offer any opinion on whether or not is was good nor if I was in agreement of it.

Enjoy the new symbol. wink

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

I made an assumption that I ought not have made.

soberbyker wrote:
minke wrote:

I recognize that there are practical reasons to say that 55 MPH ≡ 65 MPH. If I didn't give a a charity a donation can I tell the IRS that $0.00 ≡ $10.00?

Can we resolve our differences? (Recognizing that I'm putting words in your mouths) you say that something is reasonable and practical and I don't contest that. All that I can say is that I find it offensive. Also I am pleased to note that I found the equivalent symbol ≡ !!!

However, I was mentioning the law and possible reasons for it, I did not offer any opinion on whether or not is was good nor if I was in agreement of it.

Enjoy the new symbol. wink

I made an assumption that I ought not have made. I apologize.

What?

What? Is there a link?

all's good

minke wrote:
soberbyker wrote:
minke wrote:

I recognize that there are practical reasons to say that 55 MPH ≡ 65 MPH. If I didn't give a a charity a donation can I tell the IRS that $0.00 ≡ $10.00?

Can we resolve our differences? (Recognizing that I'm putting words in your mouths) you say that something is reasonable and practical and I don't contest that. All that I can say is that I find it offensive. Also I am pleased to note that I found the equivalent symbol ≡ !!!

However, I was mentioning the law and possible reasons for it, I did not offer any opinion on whether or not is was good nor if I was in agreement of it.

Enjoy the new symbol. wink

I made an assumption that I ought not have made. I apologize.

No problem, I saw that you said you were making an assumption on my behalf.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

In Georgia, non-state PD's

In Georgia, non-state PD's can only write you 10 or more over the PSL. State can write you for 1 mph over.

In DC what was the default before - 25 mph?

Virginia

I have anecdotal information from several agencies saying the Judges have said to not bother bringing in a ticket for less than 10 miles an hour.

Also, again anecdotally, VSP, even in the No Tolerance Max Enforcement exercises, is not interested in the 10 mph over group. More like the 15-20 Group, since up until the 1st of July, exceeding 80mph is an automatic Reckless Driving charge. Interstate speed limits are generally at 70mph.

At lot of Maryland drivers found themselves walking after getting Reckless Driving tickets on VA Interstates, because Maryland has automatic suspension for a Reckless Driving ticket.

I cannot see the need in driving 10 or more mph over posted limits.

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Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

Well, this thread sure took

Well, this thread sure took a detour from the original topic of loony-toons in D.C.

Although, D.C. cannot be counted on for sane thought processes, it's always "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" with all of "them".

--
I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

DC? I'll drive 100 or even

DC? I'll drive 100 or even 200 miles out my way to avoid that mad house.

--
Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

minke penalty

minke wrote:

I have a distaste for equivocating. I don’t understand how a sign that reads 55 MPH means 64 MPH in secret code. Should a youth learning that think that the logic applies to taxes? Besides the law is ethical fudging OK too?

I recognize that being stone hard rigid has it’s problems. Momentary excesses such as passing on a two lane road should be OK but there still needs to be a line in the sand: 110 MPH is not OK for passing on a 55 MPH road.

I’d overlook the issue that few people remember how to round that they should have learned in arithmetic class. When people buy larger-than-standard tires their speedometers will read low. I can imaging an adult being talked into that by their 16 year-old and not recognize the consequence. Maybe get out-of-jail-free once if this happens?

I-25 thru Colorado Springs was a 55 MPH road for years. I’m told that it was engineered as a 55 MPH road. One day the mayor said that since everyone drove 65 he would make that legal and he did. Now everyone (but me, I’m a right lane slug) drives at >70 MPH. I don’t know if the accident rate changed.

To summarize my rant, I wish we could be truthful.

/Lost Anyway throws yellow flag, charges minke with making too much sense.

--
"141 could draw faster than he, but Irving was looking for 143..."

@KenSny re: horse and buggy days

KenSny wrote:

I would think banning cars completely would mean 0 speed, that should be even better. Back to horse and buggy, make the NAtional Guard patrol the streets arresting those who dare to drive.

Heh! Horse-and-buggies weren't so safe either. Runaway horses were a big traffic menace:
http://www.burlingtonhistory.org/horse-and-buggy-days-runawa...

It's *hard* to keep speed down to 20 mph.

--
"141 could draw faster than he, but Irving was looking for 143..."

Where else?

KenSny wrote:

Police are sitting in parking lots? Why? Protecting the politicans cars?

Can they enjoy their donut and coffee??

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Ohio was by reflection

CraigW wrote:

My memory was jogged and I just remembered as a kid being on highways marked 65 with the standard black on white sign with an identical but white on black sign beneath it that said 55 Night. I wonder if that was nationwide or just Wisconsin.

Ohio country roads when I was a boy in the 1960s had standardized day/night signs which worked by responding to the difference between diffuse lighting during the day and reflection from your headlights at night. I think they were 60 mph day and 50 mph night.

If you peered very closely at the sign at night, you could momentarily see the daytime limit just as you went by the sign. At distance and during nearly all the approach the night limit was very clear.

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personal GPS user since 1992

WOW, I Remember those

archae86 wrote:
CraigW wrote:

My memory was jogged and I just remembered as a kid being on highways marked 65 with the standard black on white sign with an identical but white on black sign beneath it that said 55 Night. I wonder if that was nationwide or just Wisconsin.

I remember those signs.

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

here's one

CraigW wrote:

My memory was jogged and I just remembered as a kid being on highways marked 65 with the standard black on white sign with an identical but white on black sign beneath it that said 55 Night. I wonder if that was nationwide or just Wisconsin.

Here's an example:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d2/17/51/d217517a7a8c85cb37d0...

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. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Perhaps Pennsylvania will

Perhaps Pennsylvania will fix this archaic law some day. Modern laser speed detection is much more accurate than the jury rigged timing devices local police have had to use there for decades.

John from PA wrote:

No, our local police in Pennsylvania aren’t allowed to use laser or radar;

Virginia Reckless Driving

phranc wrote:

I have anecdotal information from several agencies saying the Judges have said to not bother bringing in a ticket for less than 10 miles an hour.

Also, again anecdotally, VSP, even in the No Tolerance Max Enforcement exercises, is not interested in the 10 mph over group. More like the 15-20 Group, since up until the 1st of July, exceeding 80mph is an automatic Reckless Driving charge. Interstate speed limits are generally at 70mph.

At lot of Maryland drivers found themselves walking after getting Reckless Driving tickets on VA Interstates, because Maryland has automatic suspension for a Reckless Driving ticket.

I cannot see the need in driving 10 or more mph over posted limits.

Not just Maryland drivers; drivers from many jurisdictions have severe repercussions from Virginia reckless driving infractions.

Currently, driving in Virginia at just 11 mph over a posted 70 MPH limit is an RD charge. Later this summer, this floor changes to 85 MPH -or- the existing 20+ MPH over posted limits.

No doubt many small communities along I-81 and I-95 hungry for ticket revenue will not be excited about the RD fines. They still get regular speed fines though.

maybe ...

telecomdigest2 wrote:

Perhaps Pennsylvania will fix this archaic law some day. Modern laser speed detection is much more accurate than the jury rigged timing devices local police have had to use there for decades.

I live in PA and I drive for a living so I pay close attention to any legislation concerning driving/transportation.

Every legislative session for as long as I can remember a few RADAR bills are introduced to allow local PD use. A lot of the time the bill will make it through the Senate only to stall and time out in the House.

PA has a ton of two cop towns (2,560 municipalities in all) and it's my understanding the folks in the House don't want to turn PA into a large RADAR trap, they're afraid they may get voted out of office. Not sure if that's the real reason but it is what I've heard over the years.

Legislative sessions in PA are two years. At the end of a legislative session any bills that didn't complete the process would have to be reintroduced in the next session and start over from the beginning.

Here's the current bill trying to make it's way through:

Quote:

Senate Bill 607; Regular Session 2019-2020

An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, in rules of the road in general, further providing for speed timing devices.

Actions:
PN 0675

Referred to TRANSPORTATION, April 30, 2019
Reported as committed, June 12, 2019
First consideration, June 12, 2019
Second consideration, June 18, 2019
Re-referred to APPROPRIATIONS, June 18, 2019
Re-reported as committed, June 24, 2019
Third consideration and final passage, June 25, 2019 (49-1)

In the House

Referred to TRANSPORTATION, June 26, 2019
PN 1384
Reported as amended, Nov. 18, 2019
First consideration, Nov. 18, 2019
Laid on the table, Nov. 18, 2019
Removed from table, Nov. 21, 2019
Laid on the table, March 16, 2020
Removed from table, March 16, 2020
Laid on the table, May 4, 2020
Removed from table, May 4, 2020

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. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .