Garmin Admits Macs Are Out

 

Below is the original letter I received from Garmin about Drive 55/65 not being able to be mounted as a drive in Finder. Note the smoke they blew about a POI Loader problem that I didn't mention to them. Also note the lane and incorrect procedure to use POI Loader in the future. You will have to scroll to the bottom of the message to see the original message they sent me, then scroll up to see my reply. Their final reply about not supporting MAC is at the top.

I would have posted this in Garmin For Mac, but I wanted everyone to see Garmin's attitude towards Apple Products.

Hello Frank,

I do apologize for the concerns that you are expressing. Due to the file structure on those new devices, you will not be able to see the device as a mounted drive on your Mac. The age of your Mac will not affect this. Some programs will still recognize it but the computer will not display it for access to the files. The device also supports Wi-Fi updates so being connected to a computer is not required for most tasks. That is not something that can be changed. I will forward your concerns on to our Engineers for future products.

Thank you for choosing Garmin,

Jim

Product Support

Garmin International

For 24-hour access to support videos, manuals, FAQs & more, visit the Support Center.

>> Original Message ...
>> From: ftabor@gmail.com
>> To: Product.Support@garmin.com
>> Subject: Re: POI Loader with your DriveSmart 55 << Reference ID: 14276210K1 >>
>> Sent: 21/06/2019 09:34
>>
>> CAUTION - EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.
>>
>>
>>
>> First, your answer is totally irrelevant to my problem. I have no problems with POI Loader.
>>
>>
>> Second, your answer it totally wrong, and borders on stupidity. I don’t have access to a Windows Computer, nor do I use an Android Phone. Your answer shows you totally don’t have an understanding of your own Products.
>>
>>
>> Third, one san still insert an SD card in the reader on the MacBook Pro and use the POI Loader to upload POIs to the SD card. The Sd card can then be inserted into the Drive 55 or 65. Restart the unit from a complete shutdown and the unit will then read the POIs and load to the unit.
>>
>>
>> Forth, your technician failed to understand that my MacBook Pro is a 2012 model and has 2 USB2 ports, not the single C port she looked up.
>>
>>
>> Fifth, what moron broke the ability of a Mac to see the Drive models as a as an accessible drive in the Finder. It worked fine with Drive 51 and 61.
>>
>>
>> So, as to my original complaint that my MacBook can’t see the drive of a Drive 55/65 and can’t mount it goes unanswered and leaves me very dissatisfied as a Garmin user. I bought a Garmin Pilot C330 in 2006, and have owned a total of 7 Garmin units. All have been satisfactory, with the exception of my most recent, DriveSmart 55.
>>
>>
>> If you aren’t able to satisfactorily operate with the Mac operating systems, then you stand to lose a significant percentage of you user base. Mine included.
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 17, 2019, at 12:56, wrote:
>> >

>> > Hello Frank,
>> >
>> >
>> > We have completed our research in to the issue that you reported with your DriveSmart 55 device not working with the POI Loader program. Unfortunately, the DriveSmart 55 is not compatible with that program on a Mac computer. You would have to use a Windows computer to use that program to load custom POIs to your device. More information on that can be found in the link below:
>> >
>> >
>> > Automotive Device Compatibility with Garmin Mac Applications on macOS
>> >
>> > The steps below should allow you to put those files on your computer and they can be loaded directly to your device without the Garmin POI Loader recognizing the unit:
>> > • Open up the Garmin POI Loader program
>> > • Select the option for "Computer" on the 2nd page of the program that asks where you would like to save the custom POIs to
>> > • Complete the rest of the process as you normally do
>> > You can then drag that file in to the POI folder on your device using the Android File Transfer program in the link above to access those files. You can create a new POI folder on the device if there is not already one there. You could also insert a microSD card in to your computer, create a POI folder within a created Garmin folder, and put the file in there as well. The device would then read that file from the SD card when it was inserted. If those do not work, a Windows computer may need to be used. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and we appreciate your patience while we looked in to this for you.
>> >
>> > Thank you for choosing Garmin,
>> >
>> > Jim
>> >
>> > Product Support
>> >
>> > Garmin International
>> >
>> > For 24-hour access to support videos, manuals, FAQs & more, visit the Support Center.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be Garmin confidential and/or Garmin legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you.
>>
>>
>> —
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>

--
Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

Have you tried talking to

Have you tried talking to APPLE about this type of problem?

I have to wonder if some operating system update messed you up?

--
I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

Does Garmin advertise this

Does Garmin advertise this product as working with an Apple Computer?

Way to go, phranc

Great conversation. It is stunning how interactions with Garmin are absolutely gobbsmackingly exasperating. I think they have given up trying to support product and just recommend buying a refurb or updated device.

--
GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Owners Manual

This is from the Drive 55-65 Owners Manual, Page 20,

Connecting the Device to Your Computer
You can connect the device to your computer using a USB cable.
1 Plug the small end of the USB cable into the port on the device.
2 Plug the larger end of the USB cable into a port on your computer.
3 When your Garmin DriveSmart device prompts you to enter file transfer mode, select Yes.
A picture of your device connected to a computer appears on the device screen.
Depending on your computer operating system, the device appears as either a portable device, a removable drive, or a removable volume.

There was explicit reference to Apple elsewhere.

For comparison, here is what the GPSMAP 66 Owners Manual says:

1 Connect the device to your computer.
On Windows computers, the device appears as a removable drive or a portable device, and the memory card may appear as a second removable drive. On Mac computers, the device and memory card appear as mounted volumes.
NOTE: Some computers with multiple network drives may not display device drives properly. See your operating system documentation to learn how to map the drive.

Might not be helpful at all.

--
GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Won't Do Any Good

KenSny wrote:

Have you tried talking to APPLE about this type of problem?

I have to wonder if some operating system update messed you up?

Garmin admits that there were changes in their file system that broke working with MAC. I doubt that Apple is aware and at any rate wouldn't have access to the source of the software to examine it. Apple also has a long standing policy of publishing the standards Apple uses and if your stuff doesn't conform, it won't work with Apple.

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Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

NO

telecomdigest2 wrote:

Does Garmin advertise this product as working with an Apple Computer?

No, but they don't advertise that it will work or not with Windows. But that's not a logical response, because Garminin products have worked on MAC since day one. It's Garmin that made the change to their file system that broke mounting the drive on MAC.

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Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

Garmin knows they broke it.

diesel wrote:

This is from the Drive 55-65 Owners Manual, Page 20,

Connecting the Device to Your Computer
You can connect the device to your computer using a USB cable.
1 Plug the small end of the USB cable into the port on the device.
2 Plug the larger end of the USB cable into a port on your computer.
3 When your Garmin DriveSmart device prompts you to enter file transfer mode, select Yes.
A picture of your device connected to a computer appears on the device screen.
Depending on your computer operating system, the device appears as either a portable device, a removable drive, or a removable volume.

There was explicit reference to Apple elsewhere.

For comparison, here is what the GPSMAP 66 Owners Manual says:

1 Connect the device to your computer.
On Windows computers, the device appears as a removable drive or a portable device, and the memory card may appear as a second removable drive. On Mac computers, the device and memory card appear as mounted volumes.
NOTE: Some computers with multiple network drives may not display device drives properly. See your operating system documentation to learn how to map the drive.

Might not be helpful at all.

Here is what Garmin says on that same page;

NOTE: The device is not compatible with Windows 95, 98, Me, Windows NT®, and Mac OS 10.3 and earlier.

My OS is 10.14.5 (18F132). It says nothing about not working with Macs, other than Early OSs.

Here is what Garmin has published about Macs. It's in the link in the first email they sent me. It will be near the bottom of the luted text in my first post.

Automotive Device Compatibility with Garmin Mac Applications on macOS

The Garmin DriveSmart 55, Garmin DriveSmart 65, Garmin DriveSmart 65 with Amazon Alexa, RV 780, RV 785, dezl 780, dezlCam 785, and Overlander devices are able to connect to Garmin Express on a Mac computer; however, they will not appear as a drive on the desktop and the device's internal files cannot be accessed without special software.

A Windows computer must be used to view the internal contents of these devices. This includes any log files needed for troubleshooting.

If needed, Android File Transfer can be used on a macOS to access these files, but note that Garmin does not develop, support, or host the download for Android File Transfer.

Additionally, when connected to a Mac, these devices will only be recognized or detected by one application at a time. For example, if Garmin Express is open and has detected the device, opening Garmin BaseCamp at the same time will result in BaseCamp being unable to find the device until both applications are completely closed and the desired application is re-opened.

Applications which will detect and "use" these devices include, but are not limited to; Garmin Express, Garmin BaseCamp, and the Android File Transfer program mentioned above.

This came from Automotive Device Compatibility with Garmin Mac Applications on macOS

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=nbOTEO6uuA3Fs1M7aSrGF7...

They no it's broke. They claim to need special software. It was never need before until they broke something.

I no longer have any confidence Garmin's ability continue to make Products that can be used by a wide range of users.

--
Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

The Boss Died

diesel wrote:

Great conversation. It is stunning how interactions with Garmin are absolutely gobbsmackingly exasperating. I think they have given up trying to support product and just recommend buying a refurb or updated device.

The Boss just died. Look for the whole company to tank. They don't have the leadership, any longer, that took them to the top. All they care about is their fitness junk.

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Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

As a further note, how many

As a further note, how many of you guys that have been using Garmin GPSs for any length of time bother to check the compatibility thing? Not I. It's always worked, and there was no indications that they weren't going to continue to.

I've been a member for more than 12 years. I got my first Garmin, a Pilot c330 in 2005. I registered in in December, but I had it for a while before that. My Friend in GA told me about this place, and I also had found it in Google searches for how to load POIs.

I had found TomTom confusing and not very intuitive. Perhaps it's time I went back and took another look.

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Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

Compatibility?

Compatibility? What's that?

I've always been exclusively a Mac user. A GPSMAP 60Csx was my first Garmin, got it when it first came out, I'm guessing around 2006. It came with the SD card slot and I jumped on it. Great unit. I had to use my daughter's Windows machine to manage it, because Garmin was not compatible with Mac then. It was a few years after the release of the 60CSx that they became Mac compatible. I used a Mac to manage it the last few years I had it.

Compatibility should never be a concern in this day and age... NEVER.

--
GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Automotive Only?

Does this only apply to the Automotive product line? The GPSMAP line still says the unit will show up as a mounted volume on a Mac.

--
GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

It's wrong. I think they

It's wrong. I think they just cut and pasted that from the Generic 50 series manual. It doesn't address model specific details. They have done that before when there were more that on Model Numbers in a series.

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Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

Not Since Day One

phranc wrote:
telecomdigest2 wrote:

Does Garmin advertise this product as working with an Apple Computer?

No, but they don't advertise that it will work or not with Windows. But that's not a logical response, because Garminin products have worked on MAC since day one. It's Garmin that made the change to their file system that broke mounting the drive on MAC.

When I first got my 60Csx, it was not Mac compatible. I had to borrow my daughter's Windows machine to manage the GPS. I was on the phone with Garmin regularly encouraging them to get Mac compatible. I was able to manage the Garmin 60CSx with a flat panel iMac when Garmin finally got with it. I remember that, it was exciting to finally get away from using that @#$@#%@#% Windows computer. I think they had USB 1.0 in the GPS and it took over a day to do a map download. Back then, BaseCamp was known as BobCat, or something like that.

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GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Who.. is at fault?

Did Garmin break it.. or is this yet another instance of Apple doing its own thing and to heck with everyone else.

--
Lives in Edmonton AB A volunteer driver for Drive Happiness.ca and uses a 2689 to find my way.

NO, Garmin broke it. They

NO, Garmin broke it. They admitted that in the email the sent me.

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Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267

Sad.

I am not a Apple user (my first Apple product was an Ipod … didn't like that or any of their products since). But lots of people do, and this is a sad day for Garmin … one more nail in their coffin. Any legitimate product that interfaces with a computer needs to be compatible with both Apple OS and Windows. Sure, the new Garmin devices have wi-fi which may be ok for map and software updates. But it really does make you realize that Garmin has abandoned the "enthusiast" customers like those of us on POI Factory that appreciate functions like BaseCamp, POI Loader and other customizations that Garmin has taken away one by one. We can blame this on the growing popularity of smartphone apps, but there really isn't any app IMO that measures up to the basic functionality of the classic Garmin.

Sad. I share your frustration and disappointment Phranc. I guess we have to realize and accept that the declining sales for Garmin road navigation products no longer allows them to offer the type of device we have depended on for so many years.

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

Yep

alandb wrote:

I guess we have to realize and accept that the declining sales for Garmin road navigation products no longer allows them to offer the type of device we have depended on for so many years.

We're a dying breed, everyone relies on their smartphones for so many things these days, I though will hang on to my Garmins for as long as possible, hopefully they'll see me out smile

--
Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

I've had to maintain both,

I've had to maintain both, (When I was at work) and I Personally prefer Windows: they will listen and accept bugs more readily.
Windows years ago Broke Adobe Software -- Partially...
I finally called and talked to Windows Support... The $$ one...
Once I explained.... and provided proof, They refunded the $$, and created a bug Report, though it wasn't fixed for 3 more months....

Though Mac (And I include iPhone and iPad in this group) DOES work, there are some issues where Simply Put, it's: "My Way or the Highway", and are Far Less apt to take criticism or accept Bug Reports...

And I've also encountered more issues with Mac vs. Windows, where an update "Drops hardware like a Hot Potato" (Though the XP to W7 transition was particularly brutal on Disk Controller Cards and Display cards).....

It's a shame to see this happen, however.... The MFG should be supportive as it will inadvertently affect their bottom line: "I won't buy from them--They dropped Support for my OS!!!"

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

Looks Like Just The Automotive Product line

Phranc, it looks like just the Garmin Automotive product line will be getting less Mac compatibility.

That stinks, and I hope that stink does not permeate to the other products.

--
GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Garmin Admits Macs Are Out

Honestly, I have paid very little attention to Apple computers. One of my hobbies is amateur radio and radio monitoring. The vast majority of the programming software that I use is not Apple compatible. Granted, I could have two computers. One Apple for most things and a traditional personal computer for radio and GPS applications, but I have never really wanted, or needed, to have more than one computer for myself.

The one exception to that, however, is an older Samsung Chromebook that I bought for my wife some years back. She got quite a bit of use out of it, but eventually I bought her a new laptop with Windows 10. The Samsung Chromebook doesn't get much use, but it is the one I bring along when I travel. For example, earlier this week, we traveled and stayed overnight from Thursday to Friday at a hotel. While we weren't in the hotel room much during waking hours, the Chromebook worked okay for general web surfing. If it were lost, damaged or stolen, it wouldn't be a huge loss.

I have actually considered a new, or newer, faster Chromebook to replace that old one. Most of them are pretty reasonably priced. If you know their limitations, they seem to do very well at what they are intended to do.

Garmin GPS Operating System

It's been a long time, but I think that the operating system on Garmin GPS devices used to be Windows CE Embedded, but I seem to recall that they switched over to an Android based OS several years ago, or at least an Android variant.

That could explain why Garmin recommended using an Android file transfer program, so that the Apple could read the Garmin's Android based card.

I don't really have details though and don't recall seeing any official documentation as to the OS, but that seems to fit. I just don't believe the responses from Product support thought out far enough to explain it.

Edit: I guess I didn't think to look right on Garmin's site until after posting this. I guess it is official:

https://developer.garmin.com/open-source/linux/

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And now, back to your regularly scheduled forum - already in progress . . .

My understanding.

My understanding is that most Garmin devices have a proprietary OS. Over the years they had a few obscure models that had Windows CE, Linux and Android, but the majority of their devices use their own proprietary system.

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon