Please Don't Run Red Lights

It's in the far East part of Mesa, AZ.

RT

I've been using a dashcam since 2013, things were more expensive then, I'm still using the one I bought back then, also capable of adding a GPS but I have enough clutter on my windshield. It's a Panorama II / S and at the time was the pick of the year (2014) for both day and night driving, (after a few firmware tweaks) which at the time I did a lot of. Still works with nice clear video.

Remember also that some states don't allow anything to be attached to the windshield area.

If use of a cell phone was involved this can be easily determined by law enforcement.

While I agree about attaching more stuff to the windshield, the A118c or its newer version A119c does not attach with a suctioncup to the windshield. It is rather more hidden if you will. It sticks on at the top of the windshield and isalmost hidden by the rear view mirror while my GPS for the DC is even more hidden since it is jammed between the glass and the mirror mount making it almost invisible.

As an aside I only drive through several US states every fall and spring and even Texas is behind me in one day.

Look up A119c on google to see this very hideable DC.

This doesn't hold true in this case. It was pretty obvious how fast we were traveling and what directions we were heading, no GPS necessary (we were stopped). If necessary, most of that information sits right in the vehicle's computer.

In addition, the Investigating Officer was 'pleased as punch' to get the video, no GPS necessary as his main concern was "who had the green light".

In some cases a GPS would be nice, but not necessary here.

RT

Not all cars have the computer access or a computer, and I was talking about a court case, there, more than hearsay is normally what is needed. Glad your case worked out.

Unless one is driving an old clunker, their vehicle has a EDR (Event Data Recorder). These record a whole lot more than a GPS equipped dash cam, including forward and sideways acceleration and deceleration, vehicle speed, engine speed and steering inputs, if the accelerator was being pressed, if the brakes were being applied, if the seat belts were being worn, in addition to airbag data. This data is then compared with physical evidence.

My GPS also records the GPS data. Since this data is now reduplicated, it's not needed a third time in the dash cam.

In most cases, a dash cam with date/time stamp is sufficient. This video is NOT 'hearsay'. This case proves that ... the investigating officer didn't ask for anything other than the video. In court action, it won't matter how much data one produces, the attorneys are still going to argue "it's not enough".

RT

and we have to stop before proceeding at all RR crossings. The reasoning is simple. Just because the lights aren't flashing and arms down doesn't mean a train isn't coming. In the same vein having the green light means you can legally travel through the intersection but it doesn't mean it safe to do so. That's your responsibility to determine. You can be legally correct and be injured/killed in an accident because you assumed everyone else is going to follow the traffic signals/signs.

"Opposing traffic has extended green" is a good heads up for asymmetric traffic cycles. In most signals, opposing directions get yellow & red simultaneously. Turning traffic trying to clear the intersection (legally) usually can expect the opposing traffic to stop at the red. But sometimes, your direction switches to yellow/red, but the opposite traffic still has a green. A turning driver who believes the opposing traffic has a red too can be surprised by this sequence.

I've never been a fan of asymmetric cycles, and I don't understand what the advantage is. But they are popular in some areas in the south.

Very popular in my part of Pennsylvania. One direction will get a left arrow and a full green to start the cycle, the opposing traffic will get an extended green and a left arrow, in some places. Others both will have an arrow at the same time, There's a few large intersections where each of the 4 directions get an arrow and full green while the other three are under red, still another where two will get green at the same time and the other two will solely get a green while the other 3 are red, there's really no one way to the cycles so the signs are necessary but not always followed.

The signs would be a good heads up if people actually stopped. Near to where I work the direction I travel gets a left arrow at the end of the green cycle, the opposing traffic is supposed to stop, but the folks making a right turn on red just keep going, it's like a game of chicken sometimes.

What I notice in Phila. is there is an assumption that cars will blow the intersection. I can point out numerous intersections, where say I am approaching with a green left arrow. That turns yellow, and now the arrow goes away. Opposing traffic does not leave the line for seconds. imho this is conditioning. Since so many cars will in fact blow the intersection, it is prudent to stay put, even with a solid green light that has changed to green.

Most lights I've seen in the Phila. area have a few second delay from when the arrow goes dark to when the opposing green lights.

I also see this all the time while people are texting

Really used to recording everything with gps as well. Mine stopped working as far as mapping once, but had speed still, implying GPS was working (how could it have mpg). I found out it's because the app can only use the cellular connection for the mapping, and it uses the wifi to connect to the device. Meaning, if problem with cell reception, then no mapping. Problem was not with files nor cam.

I honestly think soon this will all be meaningless. We live in a society that can now lie blatantly. Having run my dash cam software on both android and iOS, it's still full of holes. A liar can simply say don't try to doctor up your cell phone based app to show I did something wrong, nice try.

I am not saying there are two truths, nor am I saying a dash cam with gps is not good, but people who lie are usually not more than 1 step behind.

One tell? Where's the audio, you muted it? Yeah, convenient, etc.

I'm playing devil's advocate. I take one with me even in rental cars. We still need to avoid confrontations, drive defensively, and be safe.

johnatash4, I have the audio set to ON, that way if something untoward were to happen you would hear my expletives loud and clear!

I did drive Roosevelt Blvd. Thursday and it is interesting, didn't see anyone blow any RLCs, but they blew all the others.

My personal opinion is the dash cam sensors today that are 1080p (I don't know them by heart by my two models, one is late 2017 the other early 2018), are not good enough to read plates under many circumstances. Only when directly behind is it crystal clear. Not only that there are tons of cars here with bogus plates, I even see printed ones. Is a dash cam better than nothing, definitely. But hit and run is as old as whenever people began to walk.

Cars should have cameras as option rather than these add-ons. Just like navigation/ac/stereos used to be options but are mostly standard now

most people are so automated in their driving that the light changes and they go. That's how I was rear-end a few years ago. Someone behind me noticed the light change, but didn't notice that the traffic hadn't started moving yet (I think the first car was making a right turn and was waiting for a pedestrian to cross).

I'm pretty sure I drove like this until I got my motorcycle permit. It seems obvious to check multiple times entering an intersection on a two wheeled vehicle, but I started to notice I do the same safety check in my car now. Probably a good thing, since my little 2 door civic isn't all that bigger than my scooter!

I agree with GlobeTurtle, except I drive my car in three different countries and a motorcycle in two countries.
Riding changes your traffic awareness all round !

I have had a few cases where I've pointed out a near miss before it happened to my wife that I would have not noticed pre-bike.

It is a good idea but driving can be very stressful and extremely exhausting if we have to check for idiots every second or at all intersections to make sure we're not in their path.

My cam is 1080p, from 2013. I notice the same as for reading plates on the videos when watched later. I'll add if I am going the same speed as a car going my direction but it's slightly ahead of me, I can read that plate. The plate reading ability is completely gone at night though with plates that have a reflective background when my lights hit one.

It's called 'defensive driving'!

Everyone should drive defensively, and not trust other drivers to be paying attention or following traffic laws. A defensive driver will avoid having accidents whereas someone who doesn't drive defensively will be far more likely to be involved in an accident.

A defensive driver will make it a constant habit to know where other vehicles are located around him by constantly scanning his mirrors. A defensive driver is never caught off-guard by someone in their blind spot because they have seen that vehicle as it approached them. Just because your light turns green doesn't mean your path is safe...

I too ride a motorcycle, and do a few other things in life that require a very keen sense of situational awareness. My head/eyes are always on a swivel.

Yep - absolutely! The greater the traffic congestion I'm involved with, the more my awareness soars.

Also, I pay extreme attention to how others around me are driving. Within just a matter of seconds I can pretty much determine with certainty whether the driver is a good defensive driver or a complete airhead. With a good driver I can often predict what his intent is just by a minor speed change or slight move in his lane.

I do the same thing. I call it "Auto Body English!"

Yes, do not speed

I used to be anti-RLC, until I moved to Texas. Seen many near misses and hits from people thinking a red light is not really red until the opposing traffic has had a green light for several seconds. Crazy.

Interesting Read

If ya don't like redlight cameras, don't run the red lights
If nobody gets tickets the RLC company goes bust

Don't worry, the text of the article makes some sense to me so don't stop at just reading the headline:

Utah House Passes Bill That Would Allow Drivers to Run Red Lights

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/utah-house-passes-bill-tha...

Pennsylvania passed a similar bill for all vehicles in 2016.

I say "all vehicles" because many states also have a similar laws that allow motorcycles to pass lights that haven't changed, some light trippers do not 'see' a motorcycle.

https://wnep.com/2016/09/17/pennsylvanias-new-red-light-law-...

In some sense all of the discussion of rlc's are meaningless (to take an extreme point of view). In the history of this forum, there has never been a person who could show they did not run a light, and did get a ticket. If we apply the same analogy to speed cams, it is likely nobody can show otherwise, other than a systemic failure, like stationary objects getting tickets, in which case, they are never issued anyway.

Even this subforum gets a post every 3 weeks or so, so it seems this is a non-issue today. We really would not expect any municipality to doctor up videos, so money grab theory is out the window imho...

https://www.facebook.com/caughtinprovidence/videos/255559568...

Anytime anything is set up to make money there is almost a bias in favor of the company and city which only makes money if they can issue a ticket. They knowingly lower the time of the yellow light below the state minimums for the sole purpose of making more money. Do they doctor videos? Who knows but with the editing software out there it would be rather simple to do and since the city and RLC company make $$ on every ticket there is little reason for the city, town or county to dig into it unless someone finds a smoking gun. Most people just pay the tickets rather than take a day off work and fight it. The company and the municipality know this too.

Come on man! Do you really think that some low salary municipal employee is going to alter (edit) RLC videos, or is going to agree with, or consent to, such criminal behavior? Have you ever heard of the term 'whistleblower'?

As for the Facebook link 'Caught in Providence' you provided (with video) where Mr. Howe was issued a RLC citation and the [TV] judge dismissing it - Mr. Howe did not stop short of (prior to) the crosswalk (as is required by traffic laws) before he came to a complete stop and then proceeded to make a 'right-on-red' turn. In other words, Mr. Howe deserved the RLC citation...as long as everyone receives a citation that clearly does not stop short of the crosswalk. However, if the city does not 'always' pursue issuing citations for people clearly stopping beyond the crosswalk, then the city should not issue any citations at all for such an occurrence, which may have been why Mr. Howe's case was dismissed. Or, it may have been dismissed by the judge because of Mr. Howe's funny and likable personality that could be used for the judge's television show...

See for yourself if Mr. Howe encroached the crosswalk before stopping!
► https://i.ibb.co/S7SznYt/RLC1.jpg

did you remove the video. when I went to check it out, I got notice that it was unavailable.

more specific instance, my dash cam caught a woman blowing a school bus' reds this AM. I haven't replayed it, so not positive it will have her plate clearly, she was moving at least 25 mph. I looked at her and pointed at the bus, and she glared at me. Not 100%, but I could turn over the video to the local PD and it would be up to them whether they wanted to pursue (automatic suspension). I bet the news loves this stuff though. Seems everybody is sorry when there is a mishap, but otherwise, it's business as usual...

There is a discussion in another place in cyberspace about something similar to this, dashcam video as evidence in a hit and run type situation. A Philadelphia cop mentioned that unless you have the incident, as well as clear face and license plate shots it more than likely would not get investigated. Even then most things like this are pushed to the insurance companies to figure out.

The point being you need more than a license plate and unless it happens in a small town with not much going on it most likely would not be investigated at all by a law enforcement person.

Now more similar to you situation johnnatash4 there was a woman who blew by a school bus on the sidewalk, apparently a regular thing for this woman, police were called and they set up past the bus to see if they could witness it themselves, they did she was arrested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UTM40K53K8

Her consequences:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loqubeb6M9w

.

You are most likely right...I remember seeing clear videos online in PA, where people were apprehended, but not Phila. Could be those videos are from police, or the news, don't remember....also I believe there are parts of PA where the stop arms have cameras. I am not against it, because I don't run school bus reds...the only thing is the yellows on a school bus is very unpredictable. But if you see kids waiting it's simply common sense to be ready to stop...

I just saw a similar video recently. The same situation with a different car, school bus, kids walking on a sidewalk and then there's this idiot passing on the same sidewalk the kids are walking. People like them should never be allowed to drive. Revoke their license for good and if they still drive without a license, put them in jail.

since the judge dismissed the case and stated I don't know why you're here and the police officer stated virtually the same thing what did you get from that? I know, that he should be cited anyway, right? LOL
Fortunately for the most part people with common sense are on patrol and ruling on cases like these in real life and don't use an antiquated black and white model to make decisions and judgements.
Oh and Frank Caprio is a real Municipal Court judge, he is just on Facebook sometimes. There is a difference.

Judge Frank Caprio is just trying to be another Judge Judy in his rip old age, catering to his 'made for TV' courtroom television audience with a heavy dose of humor, gentleness and a friendly manner. He is having more fun in front of the camera than he is serious about his judicial decisions.

I clearly got caught by a yellow at a rlc intersection yesterday.

I replayed the dash cam footage and one can still see the yellow as my vehicle went under the traffic signal, my speed was 3 mph below the limit.

If I got a ticket as a result, it would be astounding. Because the rlc is supposed to arm something like 300ms "AFTER" the light turns red, and my vehicle is physically under the traffic signal and it is still yellow.

To be honest, I still like having dash cam footage to be certain on what really took place. But the lack of activity on this forum imho shows rlcs work properly.

You cannot get 'caught' by a yellow light at any time! Going under a traffic light when it is yellow is perfectly normal and to be expected because you would have to have extrasensory perception (ESP) to know when a traffic light is going to turn from green to yellow. I'm astounded you posted that you went under a yellow light!

Agreed, just trying to by actually doing, debunk the theory that rlcs cause rear end accidents. When I replay the video which has gps info, a prudent person doing the speed limit, has zero reason to slam on the brakes when the yellow appears. Seriously, zero. By virtue of traveling the correct speed, the driver instinctively knows whether or not to stop, or proceed, dependent on where they are when the light turns yellow. In my case since the speed limit was 30 mph, it would be reasonable to expect the yellow to last a full 3 seconds.

The conspiracy theory makes it appear that it's not possible to be able to decide whether to stop or go!

P.S. that is a really good way to state it, with your ESP example. How else do we know when yellow will occur, other than for it to happen? Whereas with red, on a 30 mph road, we know that red is going to happen 3 sec after yellow.

The majority of RLC intersections in Philadelphia also have "walk" signals with a countdown timer, once it reaches zero the "don't walk" shows at the same time the intersection yellow light lights up. In this example you can tell when a light is going from green to yellow.

I have seen many people start to slow down while the light is green but the counter is down the 3 or less, hell I've done it myself when I was too far to knowingly make it through the green.

So, while getting rear ended at a RLC is rare situations like someone slowing while the light is still green could contribute to those that do happen.

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As a precautionary measure, I usually wait about 3 seconds before proceeding through an intersection just after the light turns green. This action has saved me more than once because there is generally some speedster who wants to rush through the yellow or some slacker not paying attention to driving while they are driving. You have to drive defensively.

Phila. is a free for all, I attribute it to having close to zero police presence. I can go to work 5 days, roll through W and S Phila. and not see a police car once. Not so in the burbs.

Anyway, at Ben Franklin and 22nd St., a vehicle going north on 22nd, blew the light I would estimate 5-6 sec. after it had turned green for the parkway. This is actually all the time. It's downright shameful in the morning, MLK and BFPKY heading to 24th St., to get onto the Vine St Expy. Instead of alternating like in nyc or DC, it's a free for all. We have a lot of Ted Nugent fans I guess.

Instead of waiting 3 seconds why not just look both ways to make sure it is safe to proceed?

Are you saying that you wait about 3 without looking both ways before proceeding? Or, are you saying that you wait about 3 seconds after you have visually checked that it is safe to proceed?

Looking both ways should be a habit (of safe driving) 'before' your light even turns green...just like a safe driver visually is aware of what the traffic is doing 360° around them whether they are stopped or in motion.

Visually checking traffic at an intersection can be done in less than 1 second. Knowing that there is no threat before your light actually turns green means you can proceed immediately without holding people up behind you.

I remember being taught to look left, right, left, and at 16 y.o., I actually didn't even know why to look left, first.

Today, I have no idea where common sense has gone. For example, people driving with hands at 10 and 2. It has been taught never to do that, starting around 1992. That's 27 years ago, almost 3 decades.

Yesterday, I found a part of town where there are steep hills. All parked cars had wheels straight ahead. We always have to have laws to get people to act right. How in the world do people park on a grade like that, and not know to curb their wheels?

Just trying to establish that although acting right with traffic signals is common sense, a lot is done today without using it.