Speed Enforcement Camera's may be coming to a work zone near you in Pennsylvania

 

Construction worker and driver safety initiative in active work zones—pilot program on limited access highways

SB 172 passed the Senate (45-3) now in the House.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/PN/Public/btCheck....

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. Nuvi 2689, two Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N, Garmin, built into my Jeep. .
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This is not new. Ever driven

This is not new. Ever driven through a construction zone and have a porta potty flash? That's where they hid the speed cameras.

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Frank Nuvi 3597LMT 37.322760, -79.511267

Really?

Get out of here... they really hide them in porto potties? I've heard of cops hiding in the construction vehicles but porto potties, doubt it LOL.

soberbyker wrote:

Construction worker and driver safety initiative in active work zones—pilot program on limited access highways

SB 172 passed the Senate (45-3) now in the House.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&sessYr=2017&sessInd=0&billBody=S&billTyp=B&billNbr=172&pn=1067

They are actually dummies.

They are actually dummies. Several states use them for the construction sites.

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Frank Nuvi 3597LMT 37.322760, -79.511267

Not Just Speeding in Construction Zones

Although this story is not directly related to speeding in a construction zone, it does deal with worker safety in these areas.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/construction-flagger-injured-in-hit-and...

It is new for Pennsylvania

phranc wrote:

This is not new. Ever driven through a construction zone and have a porta potty flash? That's where they hid the speed cameras.

It may not be new in other areas of the country but it is for Pennsylvania which at this point does not allow speed cameras and only recently started to allow red light cameras in places that meet very specific criteria outside of Philadelphia.

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Why Hide Them??

phranc wrote:

This is not new. Ever driven through a construction zone and have a porta potty flash? That's where they hid the speed cameras.

Unless the intended purpose of this speed camera bill is revenue enhancement and not construction zone safety, why hide them? It seems to me they would be far more effective at slowing traffic if they were in plain sight with a warning sign.

The PA state police have been using dummies behind the wheel of a marked patrol car for years to slow construction zone traffic.

Safety or Cash

Safety may be one of the concerns, but the main concern is revenue generation.

progress

I suppose, I use the DRPA bridges daily, and I can't tell you how confident many are driving 60+ (i.e. 25+ mph over) or in the closed lanes, and I think man I am certain there is no automated enforcement, or traffic wouldn't be the way it is.

Do I love speed cams, not really. Do we need them? Yes. My thing is imho, it's easier to drive 12 mph over any given speed limit, than it is to accidentally run a red light (this is not possible). I suppose we'll have no choice but to behave in the same manner that we do in DC and MD. Places that don't use enforcement, well, I think the mentality is similar to when amazon.com didn't collect tax in every state--thank goodness it's you, not me, even though you got what's right and just...

disagree

ericruby wrote:

Safety may be one of the concerns, but the main concern is revenue generation.

Safety.

where

bdhsfz6 wrote:
phranc wrote:

This is not new. Ever driven through a construction zone and have a porta potty flash? That's where they hid the speed cameras.

Unless the intended purpose of this speed camera bill is revenue enhancement and not construction zone safety, why hide them? It seems to me they would be far more effective at slowing traffic if they were in plain sight with a warning sign.

The PA state police have been using dummies behind the wheel of a marked patrol car for years to slow construction zone traffic.

I leave work, in NJ, there's always a local PD with dark windows parked with nobody in it. It reminds me of a scarecrow in a garden where birds are perched on it.

I think there should be cams on the stop arms of school buses. What's at stake for offenders? Suspension of license which is mandatory. Today, the violation is reliant upon the school bus operator taking the plate and reporting it (we know this does not happen). And why should it bother anyone? If you don't routinely blow school bus reds, it doesn't affect you. We're always gonna have the fringe say it's a violation of their constitutional rights, but you don't have the right to blow school bus reds.

In Maryland

ptownoddy wrote:

Get out of here... they really hide them in porto potties? I've heard of cops hiding in the construction vehicles but porto potties,

In Maryland the portable construction zone camera cars are typically parked behind port-a-pots.

As always

Is just about the money. They come up with anything to rip people off..

not necessarily

Driver 38 wrote:

Is just about the money. They come up with anything to rip people off..

The soda tax is to encourage people to lose some weight and not load up so much on sugar. That it is 24 times the tax on beer should say something. And since it fells short of projections, maybe make it 30 times beer to get back on track.

(to be honest, most of these things are common sense--if one place fines someone $40 for speeding, and another $560 (MD v. CA), we can get a feel to what the motive might be (safety v. elimination altogether of bad behavior)

True Statement

Driver 38 wrote:

Is just about the money. They come up with anything to rip people off..

It is about the money!

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romanviking

In Maryland

johnnatash4 wrote:

if one place fines someone $40 for speeding, and another $560 (MD v. CA), we can get a feel to what the motive might be

There is a theory that Maryland's is set low enough that no one would consider it worth contesting. It would cost the state money to operate the court, even if they won. There have been multiple theories promoted about why Maryland's cameras are not being used in a fully legal manner but with the low fine it seems no one has bothered to actively pursue those theories.

Baltimore is just restarting their camera system. Interestingly several politicians where refreshingly honest saying something along the lines of "The revenue stream is great and it might reduce speeding".

Interesting to know since

Interesting to know since i'm in that area. Years ago PA State Police were allowed to enforce traffic/speed from any state owned vehicle. Hense they could be in uniform and have radar guns mounted on State dump trucks, pickup trucks even the riding lawnmower tractors.

originally ....

johnnatash4 wrote:

~snip~

The soda tax is to encourage people to lose some weight and not load up so much on sugar.

~snip~

I thought that's what the "sugary beverage" tax might have been about, but they included non sugar items (diet) too and changed the name to the "sweetened beverage" tax.

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. Nuvi 2689, two Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N, Garmin, built into my Jeep. .

I'm not

soberbyker wrote:
johnnatash4 wrote:

~snip~

The soda tax is to encourage people to lose some weight and not load up so much on sugar.

~snip~

I thought that's what the "sugary beverage" tax might have been about, but they included non sugar items (diet) too and changed the name to the "sweetened beverage" tax.

Generally I'm not a big a fan of speed cams only because I think that unless it's a 12 mph trigger, it's very possible to go 1 over, or 4 over, or 6 over, as opposed to a red light, where it is simply night and day, and there's no gray area. I watched a youtube where an officer demonstrated, proceeding on yellow is no violation--he clicked frame by frame and showed a car going through yellow, and that it was clearly past the stop line when it turned red.

Where I think this would work is say on the bridges. It's beyond me how cars can be using the lane with the red X, or going 25+ mph over the limit, with impunity. What a joke. Or cars that routinely pass on a double yellow--without enforcement, this will never change in our area...

cushion

johnnatash4 wrote:

Generally I'm not a big a fan of speed cams only because I think that unless it's a 12 mph trigger, ~snip~

Pennsylvania does allow, by law, a cushion as it were, depending on the methods used to clock you, 10mph over for timing devices such as VASCAR or a stopwatch and 5 mph over for the PSP using RADAR. This particular bill would allow an 11mph cushion.

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jurisdiction

johnnatash4 wrote:

~snip~

Where I think this would work is say on the bridges. It's beyond me how cars can be using the lane with the red X, or going 25+ mph over the limit, with impunity. What a joke. Or cars that routinely pass on a double yellow--without enforcement, this will never change in our area...

If you mean the DRPA bridges they are half in NJ & PA, they do use RADAR, technically the only place in PA non PA State police can use RADAR. Speed cameras would have to be approved by both states I'd imagine.

My pet peeve about the bridges is the trucks who drive from one end to the other in a lane not the right one as clearly marked for trucks to do. I drive a truck and one time I went around a slower truck and got a ticket for improper lane usage, $115, I went around not travel more than needed to pass, yet every time I am on the bridge I see others doing it the entire length and nothing happens.

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fake

Just went through a small section of Pennsylvania a week ago. Four construction zones - speeds reduced to 45 mph for a couple of miles. Three of the zones had no evidence of any construction activity. No lanes closed, no workers, no equipment, nothing. I hate how many states put up fake construction areas and then are surprised when people speed through real ones.

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___________________ Garmin 2455, 855, Oregon 550t

Only Good Application

If I were working on a highway, I'd very much appreciate a speed camera in the vicinity. One or two that can be sen.

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Tuckahoe Mike - Nuvi 3490LMT, Nuvi 260W, iPhone6s, Mazda MX-5 Nav

Ripping off ???

Driver 38 wrote:

Is just about the money. They come up with anything to rip people off..

Also for " romanviking "

If you keep to the posted limit you don't have anything to worry about, DO YOU ???

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Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, 3790LMT passed on to my daughter. Using Windows 10

+ 1

Tuckahoemike wrote:

If I were working on a highway, I'd very much appreciate a speed camera in the vicinity. One or two that can be sen.

I was a telephone utility engineer for 37 years and frequently worked along busy roadways. If I had a dollar for every close call I had, I could have retired a lot sooner than I did!

U Guess I

should think twice about visiting there later this month or next!!

Fred

Traffic Engineers are clueless

When Wisconsin closes a lane on the interstate, they have the emergency lane open and only reduce speed by 5mph. Traffic flows well and the tourist dollars keep flowing.

Many of the Eastern states are backwards in how they set up construction zones. I remember the inexcusable delay in PA a couple years ago when I-80 went from two lanes to one for a construction project. Those engineers didn't think any horse and buggy Amish would care.

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Zumo 550 & Zumo 665 My alarm clock is sunshine on chrome.

Emergency lane ????

dave817 wrote:

When Wisconsin closes a lane on the interstate, they have the emergency lane open and only reduce speed by 5mph.

Highways have the "live" lanes and in most cases a shoulder.
WHAT is an EMERGENCY lane ????

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Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, 3790LMT passed on to my daughter. Using Windows 10

my friend's

bdhsfz6 wrote:
Tuckahoemike wrote:

If I were working on a highway, I'd very much appreciate a speed camera in the vicinity. One or two that can be sen.

I was a telephone utility engineer for 37 years and frequently worked along busy roadways. If I had a dollar for every close call I had, I could have retired a lot sooner than I did!

dad was a linesman for ConEd. He had a mishap and fell off of a cherry picker, he really broke his face, it was terrible. He could not sue ConEd but they sued a business who told him to park his vehicle where it was....took over 5 years but he was awarded 8.4 mil. tax free. He lives no differently than before, but my buddy's two older brothers demanded their cut (very sad)....

same horse different color

Melaqueman wrote:
dave817 wrote:

When Wisconsin closes a lane on the interstate, they have the emergency lane open and only reduce speed by 5mph.

Highways have the "live" lanes and in most cases a shoulder.
WHAT is an EMERGENCY lane ????

In most cases an emergency lane is a shoulder.

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not law yet

FZbar wrote:

should think twice about visiting there later this month or next!!

Fred

The bill has only passed the PA Senate by a vote as of July 10, 2017, it is now in the House for consideration which will more than likely take some time. Once/if passed in the House it would then go to the Governor who then has 10 days to agree and sign or veto it. If the Governor does nothing in the 10 day period it would automatically become law. Once the bill becomes law it wouldn't go into effect for another 60 days.

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key word "Active"

rigel wrote:

Just went through a small section of Pennsylvania a week ago. Four construction zones - speeds reduced to 45 mph for a couple of miles. Three of the zones had no evidence of any construction activity. No lanes closed, no workers, no equipment, nothing. I hate how many states put up fake construction areas and then are surprised when people speed through real ones.

If you read the bill it mentions active a few times. From the bill ....

Quote:

"Automated speed enforcement work area."

The portion of an active work zone where construction, maintenance or utility workers are located on the roadway, berm or shoulder and workers are adjacent to an active travel lane and where an automated speed enforcement system is active.

For the purposes of this definition, workers shall also be considered adjacent to an active travel lane where workers are present and are protected by a traffic barrier.

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Wow!

What can I say? Do we need it? Yes, as long as it is for the safety of the travelers and not another source of income for the gov't.

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EGMJR

Construction zone speed

Yesterday on a major highway near me at a construction zone reduced to one lane two people were killed because of an 18 wheeler speeding down on them.

Signs are posted well in advance to slow down !!!!!

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Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, 3790LMT passed on to my daughter. Using Windows 10

Signs, Signs ....

Melaqueman wrote:

Yesterday on a major highway near me at a construction zone reduced to one lane two people were killed because of an 18 wheeler speeding down on them.

Signs are posted well in advance to slow down !!!!!

The Five Man Electrical Band weeps.

One cannot legislate, stupidity, rudeness or anything else.

R I P to the victims.

think

about NYC speed cams in school zones, they are active when school is in session. there are people there who complain. It's human nature.

Do I like them? No. But are they needed? Yes.

We don't always embrace things that make common sense. Do I like a law that says wipers on, lights on? No, because I think it's stupid to have a law to make motorists apply common sense, that should be part of maintaining a license to operate a motor vehicle. But the latter has failed, i.e. the law. I think the root needs to be addressed. It's a monsoon condition, you have no lights, 3X you're out. 3X is generous. You blow a school bus red and are caught in PA, it's as serious as DUI. There are no 3 chances.

Active or Not

soberbyker wrote:
rigel wrote:

Just went through a small section of Pennsylvania a week ago. Four construction zones - speeds reduced to 45 mph for a couple of miles. Three of the zones had no evidence of any construction activity. No lanes closed, no workers, no equipment, nothing. I hate how many states put up fake construction areas and then are surprised when people speed through real ones.

If you read the bill it mentions active a few times. From the bill ....

Quote:

"Automated speed enforcement work area."

The portion of an active work zone where construction, maintenance or utility workers are located on the roadway, berm or shoulder and workers are adjacent to an active travel lane and where an automated speed enforcement system is active.

For the purposes of this definition, workers shall also be considered adjacent to an active travel lane where workers are present and are protected by a traffic barrier.

Pennsylvania uses a flashing white light with a sign that reads "Active Work Zone When Flashing". Unfortunately, these signs are posted at long term construction zones only. I have noticed several occasions where these signs were not flashing yet workers were on the job and vise versa. IMO, this only adds to the confusion as to whether a zone is considered active or not.

Will the automated speed camera system be active when the work zone isn't? Will the cameras be hidden or in plain sight with warning signs.The answers to these questions will demonstrate whether the law is designed for revenue enhancement or safety.

Cash

Speed cams are cash ATMs for the state or companies managing them. It is like red light cams, they say is for safety but they lower the time on yellow for you to have less time to cross safely the intersection.

If they are concerned about safety increase the time for drivers & pedestrians to cross safely. The way they avoid that is saying that time is money & it is the less time the yellow is on the more money they get. Speed cams are identical the tolerance can be minimal.

Safety on construction sites can be safe for workers by erecting barriers to protect those at work there.

They have excuses for what they want not for the real problem on site. They care about you if they can make things happen for their sweet way.

Coomon sense ?

johnnatash4 wrote:

We don't always embrace things that make common sense. Do I like a law that says wipers on, lights on? No, because I think it's stupid to have a law to make motorists apply common sense, that should be part of maintaining a license to operate a motor vehicle.

Common sense seems to be a forgotten thing.
How about those idiots who drive with parking lights and/or no taillights at night because their DASH INSTRUMENTS are lit up. Which in my opinion is also largely the car manufacturers fault.

Makes me wonder, when one drives at night and doesn't see headlights reflected on the car ahead, something is missing? But I have common sense!

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, 3790LMT passed on to my daughter. Using Windows 10

More automation replacing

More automation replacing jobs

both covered

bdhsfz6 wrote:

Pennsylvania uses a flashing white light with a sign that reads "Active Work Zone When Flashing". Unfortunately, these signs are posted at long term construction zones only. I have noticed several occasions where these signs were not flashing yet workers were on the job and vise versa. IMO, this only adds to the confusion as to whether a zone is considered active or not.

Will the automated speed camera system be active when the work zone isn't? Will the cameras be hidden or in plain sight with warning signs.The answers to these questions will demonstrate whether the law is designed for revenue enhancement or safety.

The law, if it passes, mentions that warning signs of the camera use are to be prominently posted, it also mentions when workers are present.

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warning

johnnatash4 wrote:

~snip~

No, because I think it's stupid to have a law to make motorists apply common sense, ...

~snip~

Remember we are a society that needs a warning on a coffee cup that the contents may be hot, also have a warning on a peanut butter jar that it was manufactured in a place that uses nuts ....

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barriers

Icedog wrote:

~snip~

Safety on construction sites can be safe for workers by erecting barriers to protect those at work there.

~snip~

For what it's worth this bill includes barrier protected work zones. As someone who drives a tri-axle dump truck in & out of those type sites, people driving double the limit makes it very difficult for a loaded truck to enter the highway so the work can eventually be completed.

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Totally Agree

Driver 38 wrote:

Is just about the money. They come up with anything to rip people off..

Though there are some well meaning people who think these cameras improve safety, the real reason is that it is a cash grab. Hopefully, this will not become law.

In GA a person got a $780

In GA a person got a $780 fine for doing 80 in a 55 on an interstate highway (thru downtown). That fine is before the super speeder surcharge of another $250. That is purely revenue generation.

That excessive amount may be a money grab, BUT

I bet that person will never speed again! At least through that town.

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Nuvi 2460LMT and 1350.

just when I

had thought I'd seen it all, I'm on the corner of Grays Ferry behind a bicycle, who obviously takes a super long time to ride through the intersection? How does the red light cam work in this scenario, kind of comical.

Bikes at Greater Risk

johnnatash4 wrote:

had thought I'd seen it all, I'm on the corner of Grays Ferry behind a bicycle, who obviously takes a super long time to ride through the intersection? How does the red light cam work in this scenario, kind of comical.

If a bicyclist enters the intersection when the light is green, he or she will not trigger the camera, no matter how long it takes to cross the intersection.

But bicyclists must obey the same traffic laws as motor vehicles! If a bicyclist enters the intersection against a red light, photos may be taken. However, many jurisdictions do not issue plates for bicycles, and there are few regulations as to where plates must be located... so the photo may not be able to identify the owner of the bicycle.

But it's not as comical as you might think. A bike blowing through a red light is much less visible than a vehicle, and at much greater risk of being hit by cross traffic than a car.

Bicycle License Plates???

DanielT wrote:

However, many jurisdictions do not issue plates for bicycles, and there are few regulations as to where plates must be located... so the photo may not be able to identify the owner of the bicycle.

I'll bite, DanielT: Which jurisdictions do issue plates for bicycles??

In Pennsylvania?

phranc wrote:

This is not new. Ever driven through a construction zone and have a porta potty flash? That's where they hid the speed cameras.

Where in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania have you seen a porta potty flash in a construction zone? Speed Camera tickets are currently not legal in the Commonwealth.

$780 is a lot less than a human life

sunsetrunner wrote:

In GA a person got a $780 fine for doing 80 in a 55 on an interstate highway (thru downtown). That fine is before the super speeder surcharge of another $250. That is purely revenue generation.

In Virginia that ticket would have been far less, with a charge of RECKLESS DRIVING (80 MPH or Greater) instead. Go much faster and you'll get a free night's stay in a Virginia jail, perhaps a weekend until the bail hearing. Many other jurisdictions have an automatic license suspension for Reckless Driving that drivers discover when they return home (followed by their RD charge in Virginia).

Perhaps the Georgia speeder would have preferred that, assuming he was lucky not to kill anyone while he was busy speeding. A young mother was recently killed by a driver doing 80 MPH on I-81 in Virginia and could not decelerate in time to avoid hitting her vehicle. Other drivers were obeying the limit and didn't hit anything when traffic slowed.

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