Audio level changes to POI files

 

Only to keep all POI's audio files at same levels, I'm starting a new thread to indicate what audio levels were changed in which POI's, to keep the audio reports at the same, consistant audio levels...

This was determined via the following: In comparison to Route Voice Prompts, which were not edited, most POI's audio prompts were
matching to the Route Voice Prompts. Some, however, were lower in audio levels.. Rather that claim to force a 'standard' for all audio, I'm fixing the fewer POI's with lower audio prompts.. and Indicating what audio change I'm using to achieve consistent POI audio levels.....

I have changed the following POI Audio prompts:

Ford Dealers: +6DB
Trader Joe's: +6DB

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

@Jan

I think this is a pretty good idea. I had not thought about the fact that each sound file was made to the likes (or maybe default) of the creator and whatever technique was used in its creation.

I just looked for Ford Dealers and did not find a sound file. I did download one of the Trader Joes files and tested it with Audacity. When I go to Effect > Amplify, Audacity offers to increase the level by 8.2 dB giving a "New Peak Amplitude" of 0.0 dB.

This makes me wonder if a suggested level as measured by Audacity might be Peak Amplitude of .0. dB. This was what I set for a sound file that I submitted http://www.poi-factory.com/node/43372

Interestingly, I noticed that - while my name is attached to this sound file, there is not an "Edit" button available. Perhaps this means that JM or Globe Turtle might just be able to apply amplification at the point of loading (or reloading) a sound file as the steps to do so are
1. right-click on file
2. "Open With" > Audicity
3. Effect > Amplify and then look at peak amplification. If below 0.0 dB, let Audicity take it there by clicking OK, otherwise you are done
4. File > Export > (navigate to folder) > Save

MP3gain

Years ago, I discovered a "freeware" program that I've used to "normalize" MP3 files (make them the same volume). You might want to take a look at:

http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/

As I recall, you can back out any changes if needed, although I've never had to.

--
Garmin Drivesmart 61, Nuvi 52, Nuvi 1390

WOW

Bob.Sedona wrote:

Years ago, I discovered a "freeware" program that I've used to "normalize" MP3 files (make them the same volume). You might want to take a look at:

http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/

As I recall, you can back out any changes if needed, although I've never had to.

I have had that portable program for years but I never ever saw the Album Analysis button. Using your link, I downloaded the .zip file, extracted the files, and then ran the program and it runs like what I have in instructions I had previously downloaded from http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/20700/how-to-adjust-the-volum...

So Thanks a bunch.

PS: and I was able to bring the folder back in and "undo" the changes

I used a video editing

I used a video editing program, Premiere Pro CS6 only because I had it, and knew I could specify a audio increase or decrease in DB.
Granted, it is overkill for this application.
I verified that the resultant increase did not result in clipping (Program indicates when clipping occurs). There are audio filters that could be applied, but I only changed audio gain.
The resultant file, exported as MP3 or Wav (depending on which GPS it feeds) Via Adobe Media Encoder. Due to the Video Editing Program's nature, changes audio files from 44.1k to 48k, but that is not an issue.
These two POI files sounded 'low' in amplitude on the GPS compared to other POI's, and the Route voice. Matching the audio levels was all that is being attempted, and the changed POI's matches levels of other POI's and Route Audio Voice (to me).

I'm guessing the 'nominal audio' that I'm matching to is peaking at -4 to -6 below 0, and 0 is where clipping occurs.

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

Thanks and what a great idea

For such a wonderful idea!

Perhaps when folks post .wav .mp3 files, those files are extracted, normalized and returned?

One way to get them to all have a consistent audio level for everyone?

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

My belief in this subject is

What is "Normal"???
My belief in this subject is that there are so many different ways of interpreting a 'standard' for audio, it is nearly impossible to create a reference.
Take Broadcast Audio for Television (I'm retired from that field)
You have the Post production reference -20, the Broadcast reference of -18, the "DVD Standard" of -12. I'm Not certain what the CD standard may be (If there is one) as anytime I used CD audio in a Broadcast Project I had to reduce the CD Level... (All of these Digital Standards are Referenced to digital 0), and then there is the older Analog Audio 'standards' where "0" was +4, +8, or +12 if you're old enough, and dealt with the CBC...
Then you say you're referenced to "0", but don't say if it's digital "0" (Where clipping occurs) or Analog "0", which can be any level, as shown above...
Even when a 'standard' (Pick one!) was followed, Speaker level in location where file was created, if set incorrectly, caused errors to creep in...... "It's too loud/quiet, bring down/up level to make it sound correct.... Ah, That's better!"......

Oh yes, then there's "DialNorm", where different Networks have decided differently, and an altogether different one in Dolby systems.

And Let's Not Forget, material originated in Stereo, Mono, or Dolby 5.1 and converted to a different format incorrectly, or 'automatically' in hardware with poorly written firmware.....

THATS why I avoided talking about a standard.. and just indicated how much level change I did to make is 'sound' at same level as most other POI's and the Route Voice.

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

Uh Oh...

JanJ wrote:

What is "Normal"???

Barney really stepped in it this time. Slap Barney around like a hockey puck!!

Y'know the saying.. If y'want baffle em' with BS dazzle em' with brilliance!

Yes, you brought up lots off good reasons.. I was hoping these audio thingies that get sprinkled around here, there, n' somewhere else could at least have a "common" audio level (whatever that might be) so one volume adjustment on the GPS is sufficient that one POI audio file isn't so loud it blows the Windows out of the car and the next so low the only way to "hear" it is with your eyes looking at an oscilliscope.

I'm not an audiophile so I don't really worry about, monural, stereo or multi-channel encoding as long as we can hear the bloody thing with its intent.

Now, while converting the language from this to that might prove to be humerous and entertaining and yes even I would chuckle the 1st time or two, Rosetta Stone(ed) it's not supposed to be. So can we leave that aspect of conversion to another thread?

So the question becomes, can we please have all these conversions by this time yesterday and preferably the day before that as I'm in a hurry to go somewhere and try out this new stuff sometime next year? mrgreen

Thank you!

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

@JanJ

JanJ wrote:

...

This was determined via the following: In comparison to Route Voice Prompts, which were not edited, most POI's audio prompts were
matching to the Route Voice Prompts. Some, however, were lower in audio levels.. Rather that claim to force a 'standard' for all audio, I'm fixing the fewer POI's with lower audio prompts.. and Indicating what audio change I'm using to achieve consistent POI audio levels.....

I have changed the following POI Audio prompts:

Ford Dealers: +6DB
Trader Joe's: +6DB

You reference "Route Voice Prompts". What exactly are these? I could not get a hit when googling "Route Voice Prompt(s)". I am assuming you are talking about the "prompts" from the Garmin device like "In point 2 miles, turn right on ..."

In any event, how are you determining the "level" of these prompts?

I thought I would be able to get some idea by looking at "Ford Dealers" and "Trader Joe's" from the poi-factory sound files. However, I did not find a "Ford Dealers" so that one must have come from some other site.

The two Trader Joe's sound files were at different levels so they did not help me understand the "level" you might be suggesting.

If I were making a suggestion, I would prefer that the peak amplitude of the poi-factory sound files be very close to the peak amplitude of a Garmin device's spoken directions - and by that I mean the amplitude when the "Master" volume of the device is set to 100% as well as the "Navigation" volume being at 100%.

Likely, we would have to determine this level by trial and error but once some level was established, then I would hope that we would publish a technique that would permit anyone wanting to submit a sound file to quickly determine whether their file was close to a suggested amplitude.

Note that there will be some files where whoever would use it would want to have the "alert" absolutely get their attention. I recall a recent thread where the member was wanting to have a POI file alerting people to AVOID certain places in the desert. I suspect that he would want these "alerts" should be very loud.

Again, I think you have started a discussion we need - and can - get some agreement on.

Ford wav

The Ford wav file is located with the csv file http://www.poi-factory.com/node/25351 .A problem that needs to be looked at. Sound files with custom poi not listed in Sound File Library.

My preference is having all the files together with the custom pois and do away with the Sound File Library.

Requiring members to meet a criteria for submitting a sound file may be difficult. If POI Factory could have a means to load them to site with preset in place that would be nice.

--
Charlie. Nuvi 265 WT and Nuvi 2597 LMT. Android Here WeGo - Offline Maps & GPS.

Thanks Charlie

charlesd45 wrote:

The Ford wav file is located with the csv file http://www.poi-factory.com/node/25351 .A problem that needs to be looked at. Sound files with custom poi not listed in Sound File Library.

My preference is having all the files together with the custom pois and do away with the Sound File Library.

Requiring members to meet a criteria for submitting a sound file may be difficult. If POI Factory could have a means to load them to site with preset in place that would be nice.

I downloaded the Ford Dealers file and Audacity would have suggested raising the level by 8.0 dB to get to a peak of 0.0 dB.

That would lead me to believe that JanJ was trying peak amplitude of 0.0 dB as a suggestion.

As far as having all of the sound files with Custom POIs (which is something that I think JM and Globe Turtle are trying to do), I would point out that we would still need to have sound files that are not specifically associated with a custom POI in an alphabetical list.

See

  • 1923 Model T Ford Aaoogha horn
  • Airport 1 Alert Sound
  • Airport 2 Alert Sound
  • Airport 3 Alert Sound
  • Airport 4 Alert Sound
  • Alarm 1 Alert Sound
  • Alarm 2 Alert Sound
  • Alarm 3 Alert Sound
  • as early examples.

    I guess I would not worry too much about having criteria when submitting sound files. Those who do this all the time would do it as a matter of course - and those who do it only once in a while would not be held to task.

    What I may do is look at the sounds currently downloaded and try to get them all at a level that I like. So - if I found a new sound file that was not loud enough for me, I would just fix it myself before running POI Loader.

    Sounds

    That is what I do when I find one to low in volume. Never ran across that many that would required a big change in how POI Factory handles them.

    Not sure I see the advantage of having sound files that don't match a custom poi file? Most likely all the extra ones were made at a time when someone thought a file in the future may show up.Right now it is only duplication of work maintaining two lists .Lots of custom pois that still need bmp and wav files added to them. To me that is the best place to work on now.So new and existing members will have the complete package.If some members just did a couple the gaps could be filled in pretty fast.

    Alarm 1 Alert Sound, Alarm 2 Alert Sound and Alarm 3 Alert Sound are located under Speed Cameras. http://www.poi-factory.com/node/4905 has the Airport 2 Alert Sound.The others could be put there.If they are not located in other Airport files.

    --
    Charlie. Nuvi 265 WT and Nuvi 2597 LMT. Android Here WeGo - Offline Maps & GPS.

    Ford Dealers are Here:

    Ford Dealers are Here: http://www.poi-factory.com/node/25351

    I compared POI's to others, and to Voice prompts by 'ear'.
    Wife was the one who commented (correctly I may add) that Trader Joe's was as low as Ford Dealership, compared to voice prompts after we discussed the low Ford Dealer audio prompt... Again, this was by 'ear'. I guesstimated that it needed to double in volume, and therefore I tried +6DB additional gain. Saved and downloaded it to GPS, and the next day we went to check it out (Ford Dealer)... After we fixed the co-ordinates to be within 99 feet, we got within 99' the POI audio sounded with modified gain, and we realized +6DB change on Ford Dealer audio was OK.

    Done by 'ear'.... I'm guessing 'ear' is good within ~3DB

    I started the thread not to suggest a level standard, but to alert others to which files may need audio level changes, and what worked here... That is all.. (I was more into Video than Audio anyway smile! )

    --
    A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

    JandJ

    Your efforts and observations are appreciated.. It just brings up some food for thought.

    --
    Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!