Speed and Red : my reasoning

That seems like a good way to look at it.

Hi Archer,
Just like you, I don't run red lights and I also live in the Phoenix metro area. One of the main reasons I got the red light camera info is because Phoenix is the red-light running capital of the nation:

http://www.stopredlightrunning.com/html/newsrelease_phoenix_...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/06/27/national/main29860...

Not to mention # 1 for Vehicle Thefts and #9 for Misspelled Cities (look it up, folks!

Since cameras are usually placed in intersections with a high incidence of offenders, I want this information in order to be extra-careful when I approach and cross them, looking out for any cell-phone talking two-ton SUV driver that may be about to blind side green-light traffic.

Just something to consider.

I don't run red lights either - I'm the one that is stopping when I see the yellow and don't push it while many other cars go on through. But I don't trust our government to do the right thing. In San Diego, they were ***caught*** shortening the yellow light which forces law abiding citizens into red light tickets. Hence my interest in knowing where the "red light traps" are.

Just like in the old days going through certain small towns - speed traps were revenue generation, not about public safety. The same is true now with red light cameras - the technique and mission is the same - entrappment and revenue generation.

I am in the DC area and MD, Norther VA and DC all seem to have different length Yellow's and to top it off red light cameras are going up everyday in the area..... IT'S CRAZY.... and now in Montgomery County they have moving speed traps as well. WHAT NEXT..

I am also in the Washington DC area and as to your question "what's next?" I Bet we see the stop sign photo enforcement like in California! Now THAT is revenue raising pure and simple.

Hey maybe we should all just give the govt our credit card number and let them periodically charge us some fee for being a citizen!

Stan

Where I live, we don't have either one, as such I am very unconscious of these cameras when I travel to cities that have both. So, I install both on my c340 to bring awareness.

is there a way to tell if the red light camera doubles as a speeding camera?

I've noticed while in areas heavy with red light cameras I see people blowing through intersections when the light is red. Maybe it's the reason the cameras are there in the first place... But in any case we don't have them where I live (yet) so when the alert comes up it's just a reminder to watch the intersections closely. BTW I ride a motorcycle so it's a welcome reminder. ;o)

James

Some red light cameras can determine your speed if they take more than one frame while a car is crossing. The speed is obtain by measuring the distance the car travels in the time between pictures taken. The only clue to this would be if there are tell-tale distance markers (painted lines, posts, reflective material, etc.) on the curb, pavement or along what would be the background of the picture, but in special cases, such as when the picture captures an accident, physical measurements may be taken after the fact. For cameras using radar, a radar detector may give you a warning, but there is no way to tell for sure, since radar could be used for other readings(such as rolling-stops). Here in Arizona, some cameras will snap if you make a legal right-on-red above 8 mph. I'd suggest to check with your city's website to see if they disclose the regular use of red light cameras used as speed cameras.

A few years ago Car and Driver had an article reporting that red-light running can be practically eliminated by lengthening the yellow. Shortening the yellow is a sure-fire revenue generator for towns so inclined.

My hometown has several intersections where the lights are red in all directions for 5 seconds. Cut down accident rates dramatically at those lights.

In Texas they are planning an evaluation of cameras that take a picture of your car on the highway and down the road 10-20 miles they take another picture and calculate the average speed. If you have exceeded the speed limit they then send you a ticket. How is that for big brother watching?

Mike,

Where did you find this information and what area did they plan this?

thanks,

Jeff

Wow!! Where did you find this information? I would sure love to read more regarding this.

I heard the same thing on the radio and found this link to an article about it:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/13/texas-dot-could-institute...

I have found this website

http://thenewspaper.com/

has a lot of information about driver rights, etc. They sometimes are a little extreme with their commentary, but they cover alot of stuff about red light cameras, crazy parking laws, speed cameras and radar, etc.

If you look at the red light cameras in my area, it is quite obvious that they were chosen not where there are the most accidents, but where they have the best chance of catching you running a light. Poorly placed lights, longer then normal intercetions.

Look at the red light POI as extra insurance against a poor decision made in half a second as to if you should stop or not.

I've heard also that on some toll roads that use toll tickets, their computers compare the time stamp when you pulled the ticket to the time you pay the toll getting off and calculate your speed. Man, driving is getting stressful.

found on the internet:
The duration of yellow signal time is one of the most important factors for intersection safety.

Simply put, shorter yellow lights mean more people enter on red. When yellow time is inadequate, a condition develops where individuals approaching an intersection are unable either to come to a safe stop or proceed safely through the intersection before the light turns red. Engineers call this condition the "dilemma zone" and it's something that the old formula for calculating yellow times was specifically designed to avoid.

That has all changed. The new formula produces much shorter yellow times-as much as 30 percent shorter, depending on the particular intersection involved. You can compare for yourself the differences between the 1976 Institute of Transportation Engineers formula and the current formula. [See section V. of Armey's May 2001 report, "The Red Light Running Crisis - Is It Intentional?"]

Of course, these changes were made in the name of safety. But even if you grant that they were made with the best of intentions, the policy of shortening yellows has been a complete failure. Intersections are less safe as a result. Nonetheless, many within the transportation bureaucracy cling to reduced yellow times because it is extremely profitable.

Each time a red light camera snaps a photo of a license plate, government hits the jackpot. The District's budget assumes its camera program will collect $16 million in fines. Montgomery County wants to triple its camera revenue by increasing the red light ticket fine to $250. It's no wonder that cities are finding camera-based enforcement attractive.

But there is another way out of the so-called red light running crisis. Consider this example. The city of Mesa, Arizona added about a second of yellow time to several intersections. The result was a 73 percent reduction in red light entries and a corresponding reduction in accidents. The safety effect was so dramatic that the red light cameras became money losers and the city recently decided to retire the devices.

Food for thought

Where I live in Ohio, the State Patrol is now regularly using airplanes to catch speeders. I hear them often on my police scanner, they actually fill out seatbelt and assured clear distance tickets before hand so they can catch more people while the plane is up. Typically they have 2 or more State Patrol vehicles and 1 or 2 county vehicles pulling people over. Car and Driver did a big story on these guys a few months ago. While I'm sure it will help keep some people driving safer after the first time they get caught, I don't like the idea of the obscene amounts of revenue the can generate in several hours time. Cameras are even worse they don't ever quit, and the cities that shorten yellow light times are pushing the limits of public safety to just increase their revenue. I have a GPSr and a scanner in my vehicle and I like the reminders the give me to watch my driving, I fail to see how knowing where the cameras are is anything but a good reminder.

As Americans, we have the right and duty to fight such governmental idiocy.

If you get a ticket from one of these red light cameras and you know you're not guilty, stand up and face your accuser in court.

Oh...your accuser is a piece of machinery on a pole? Then demand that they take that piece of equipment from the pole and present it in court so you can cross-examine it (ask it questions).

It doesn't speak? It doesn't see? It doesn't think? Then the prosecution hasn't proved anything.

It's up to us to govern government. Or have you forgotten...BY the people, FOR the people and OF the people?

Just my opinion.

The declaration of Independence:

....That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

What has happened to our country?
Double Tap

The American people have become what amounts to nothing more than a herd of cattle. As long as they're fed, they don't care. Oh sure, they whine and cry, but nothing else.

If our Founding Fathers could see us now, they would probably have second thoughts about how this country would be formed.

It's time again that the American people should re-unite and put their petty issues aside.

A true patriot stands ready to defend his country againt the government.

Ok...enough. I'm getting off of my soapbox.