eBay cheap maps - what is the catch?

 

I have a Garmin 765T which I haven't really used for navigation for a while. I primarily use it a BT handsfree in my car. Once in a while it gives me the msg about updating maps.

I was curious to see what update is available for this device. I checked garmin and it looks like lifetime maps are $90. Checked ebay, and found few sellers are selling new maps on SD cards, and then some are selling "links" to new maps for $8-$15.

I was just wondering what is the catch here? Are they pirated maps? Or just plain scam?

Maps on SD Cards are a mixed

Maps on SD Cards are a mixed bag. They can be both legitimate and pirated. If you're seeing US maps offered for sale on a SD card and the seller is from the US, it's virtually 100% certain the map is pirated.

MicroSD versions of maps, at least according to the brief look I took on Garmin's site, are not available in the region where the map is located. For example, the North America SD card isn't available in North America. This is because the SD cards are generally intended for temporary use by travelers. With the SD cards people who have finished their vacation tend to recoup some of the cost of purchasing the map by selling it on ebay.

Anyone offering a link to a Garmin map for $8-15 is definitely a pirate, a scammer, or both.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Thanks for your reply. I

Thanks for your reply.
I just contacted the seller and he replied to me saying that I'd have to buy legit map from garmin.com, meaning he's selling pirated maps. WTF.

Garmin maps on SD

Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

MicroSD versions of maps, at least according to the brief look I took on Garmin's site, are not available in the region where the map is located. For example, the North America SD card isn't available in North America. This is because the SD cards are generally intended for temporary use by travelers.

I agree with the main point of your post regarding the likelihood of cheap maps on SD being pirated copies, but I don't think the above quoted part of your post is correct. Many owners of Garmin handheld units (like Etrex, Oregon and Montana) buy the official Garmin CN NA maps on micro SD so they can have routable road maps on their handheld unit.

The Garmin maps on micro SD are not updatable, and Garmin does not release every version on SD. In fact I think they typically release only one SD version each year. So if someone is offering 2015.30 on SD, it most certainly is pirated.

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

It may not be, but I didn't

It may not be, but I didn't spend an hour on Garmin either.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

sounds too good.

sounds too good.

Garmin offers

Garmin offers you the choice to buy lifetime maps on the old units. SD on ebay are pirated gps maps and not from Garmin. Be careful as the old units may not have enough room to store the new larger file maps.

buyer beware

As the old saying goes: caveat emptor - Have to do your due diligence.

Report him to eBay

spex wrote:

Thanks for your reply.
I just contacted the seller and he replied to me saying that I'd have to buy legit map from garmin.com, meaning he's selling pirated maps. WTF.

Notify eBay of how he responded to you that he is selling pirated illegal maps and they will remove his auction item.

--
GM Built-in Navigation system - Samsung S6 Edge+ Smartphone with Garmin Viago, Google Maps & HERE Apps

I would say...

....pirated maps. Don't buy. Notify e-bay.

--
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. ----George Washington

Thanks spex!

spex wrote:

Thanks for your reply.
I just contacted the seller and he replied to me saying that I'd have to buy legit map from garmin.com, meaning he's selling pirated maps. WTF.

North America Maps on SD cards sold on eBay are always pirated.

Even if a registered user installs his legal lifetime mapset on an SD card because of lack of space on his GPS, it's illegal for him to resell the SD card.

Locked GPS sold on eBay are always stolen GPS's ... usually sold by the thieves or a pawn shop.

And yes, I'd venture a guess that 99.9% of the first-time posters who claim to have formatted their GPS's by mistakes ... well, I think you can figure out what that means.

I"m glad (and surprised) the seller on eBay pointed you towards Garmin to purchase a legitimate map update.

--
Garmin 205, 260W, 1450LMT, 2460LMT, HEREwego for iPhone ... all still mapping strong.

I doubt it

rjrsw wrote:

Notify eBay ... and they will remove his auction item.

The electronic bay of thieves knows damn well what is going on, and IMHO removes fraudulent sales only in the most extreme cases, meaning when the fraud starts to generate bad publicity.

I've seen cases where they were notified of obvious fraud, but the sales stayed up.

here's a strange map :)

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

.

If the maps are priced ridiculously low, that's a very good indicator that there's something shady going on.

--
nuvi 760, nuvi 765T, nuvi 855, nuvi 3790LMT, nuvi 3490LMT - SoCal area

Frand is very common on the eBay motorcycle auctions

Frovingslosh wrote:
rjrsw wrote:

Notify eBay ... and they will remove his auction item.

The electronic bay of thieves knows damn well what is going on, and IMHO removes fraudulent sales only in the most extreme cases, meaning when the fraud starts to generate bad publicity.

I've seen cases where they were notified of obvious fraud, but the sales stayed up.

I have reported fraudulent auctions trying to sell a motorcycle they do not own at a very low buy it now price. After reporting the fraudulent auctions eBay took them down very quickly.

--
GM Built-in Navigation system - Samsung S6 Edge+ Smartphone with Garmin Viago, Google Maps & HERE Apps

There is a difference

There is a difference between selling a pirated map and a stolen mortorcycle. Petty theft of a map might net the seller a small fine. The stolen motorcycle could net five years in the state pen.

Ebay can do a better job of acting on obvious cases such as pirated maps and PDFs of books. But ebay probably gets thousands of such reports and can't deal with them all.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

not intending to cause an argument but

Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

There is a difference between selling a pirated map and a stolen mortorcycle. Petty theft of a map might net the seller a small fine. The stolen motorcycle could net five years in the state pen.

Ebay can do a better job of acting on obvious cases such as pirated maps and PDFs of books. But ebay probably gets thousands of such reports and can't deal with them all.

Software piracy is not petty theft. I'll provide a link rather than posting an article
And yes, online e-tailors need to do a better job of policing, reporting and removing post's offering to sell pirated software.

A lifetime ago I ran a bbs (remember those) and I wrote a chunk of software that would inspect a users uploaded file for being a duplicate or if it was a commercially copyrighted (purchased) program. We all make mistakes so my scanner would kindly remind the user the file they uploaded was copywrited software. We did have several users, that habitually uploaded commercially copyrighted software and those users' were reported to the software company and the users were banned from the site. In e-bays defense, they haven't any real mechanism to determine if what's being offered for sale is legitimate, pirated or otherwise stolen.

http://ww2.bsa.org/country/Anti-Piracy/Know%20the%20Law.aspx...

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

Proven fraud not always removed

One case that I'm thinking of is an item that was offered for sale in the U.K. Detailed pictures were taken to show exactly the condition of the item, as condition would greatly affect value. While the auction was still going on, another of the same item was supposedly offered in the U.S. Again, pictures accompanied the item, but they were the exact same pictures as the U.K. auction, down to wear and paint chips. Several members of a newsgroup that I was a member of noted this and informed ebay. The second auction was not shut down. I don't know if the "winner" of the auction got another item not in as good of shape, or if he didn't get anything at all (both of which happen on the electronic bay of thieves). But it was pretty obvious that the second seller couldn't have been selling the exact same item that was being offered in the U.K., the duplicate photos should have been enough for ebay to shut the sale down, but they did not.

I sure there re people who want to make excuses for ebay. Perhaps time runs backward and the person in the U.S. is actually the one with the item and the person in the U.K. was committing the fraud. But this was a large expensive item and could cost the buyer hundreds to ship. And hundreds more to return, if they got something that was misrepresented. If they didn't know which sale was fraudulent then they should have paused both until the sellers could resolve who had the actual item that was being represented.

@BarneyBadass

I completely forgot the copyright infringement charge that would be added to the petty theft, along with perhaps a dozen other crimes. That's what happens when I post at 11:30 at night.

I hope my main point survives the misstatement. wink

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Re-Sale Question

What about selling a one time map update? I'm unable to find Garmin’s policy on that. Can someone guide me to a link that answers that question?

For example, if planning to take ONE TIME trip to the UK and I buy the UK\Ireland map from Garmin on an SD card. Upon my return why can't I sell it to another person? The map is locked to that SD card, can’t be copied, and can be used in almost all Garmin units. I did pay for it and Garmin profited so I see no reason that I couldn't sell it.

I'm sure most of the maps on Ebay are pirated, but what about a person selling a map as described above?

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

SD Maps locked to a particular device

I believe Garmin's position is that Garmin SD card maps contain a unique serial number, based on the serial number of the sd card ... but part of installation into a GPS, another number is generated which locks the map to a particular unit ... ie, even if you own two Garmin models, the SD card can only be used in one of the units.

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Garmin 205, 260W, 1450LMT, 2460LMT, HEREwego for iPhone ... all still mapping strong.

you would need

muell9k wrote:

What about selling a one time map update? I'm unable to find Garmin’s policy on that. Can someone guide me to a link that answers that question?

For example, if planning to take ONE TIME trip to the UK and I buy the UK\Ireland map from Garmin on an SD card. Upon my return why can't I sell it to another person? The map is locked to that SD card, can’t be copied, and can be used in almost all Garmin units. I did pay for it and Garmin profited so I see no reason that I couldn't sell it.

I'm sure most of the maps on Ebay are pirated, but what about a person selling a map as described above?

I'm not an attorney, nor do I know Garmin's terms and conditions on software purchase, so you will need to check with the powers at Garmin.

SOME SOFTWARE LICENSES CAN BE TRANSFERRED IN FULL, OTHERS CAM NOT AND IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE TERMS WERE WHEN THE SOFTWARE WAS INITIALLY PURCHASED.

As I recall, before the lifetime map update support came into being, a map update license was tied to a specific unit, not the owner of the GPS unit. So if you bought a new GPS, you had to buy a new map update license for that specific GPS. but that goes back a ways.

Again, check with Garmin (oh and if Garmin's not your GPS's manufacture, check with the appropriate manufacturer for their terms and conditions)

As Porkey Pig woud say,

'th, th, that's all folks!'

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

I believe it can be sold

muell9k wrote:

For example, if planning to take ONE TIME trip to the UK and I buy the UK\Ireland map from Garmin on an SD card. Upon my return why can't I sell it to another person? The map is locked to that SD card, can’t be copied, and can be used in almost all Garmin units. I did pay for it and Garmin profited so I see no reason that I couldn't sell it.

I'm sure most of the maps on Ebay are pirated, but what about a person selling a map as described above?

To my knowledge, it's acceptable to sell a used Garmin-made map-on-SD card, so I agree with you.

It's been discussed here many times and is suggested as a way for upcoming visitors to Europe from North America to obtain a used Europe-on-SD card on eBay or elsewhere and when the vacation ends, to offer it on eBay again.

The map is tied to the particular SD card and selling a no-longer-needed map on SD is no different than selling a used nuvi device.

I've spent time searching through Garmin's web site and can find nothing allowing or preventing resale of used map-on-SD cards.

Although it's not as good as a genuine Garmin statement, this agrees that SD-map can be resold:

http://forums.gpsreview.net/discussion/24905/garmin-sd-cards...

Maybe someone else can help. Has anyone here purchased a new preprogrammed map on SD from Garmin? If so, does any of the documentation in the package offer an answer to this question?

My Understanding is

cbwatts wrote:

I believe Garmin's position is that Garmin SD card maps contain a unique serial number, based on the serial number of the sd card ... but part of installation into a GPS, another number is generated which locks the map to a particular unit ... ie, even if you own two Garmin models, the SD card can only be used in one of the units.

Having no experience with one time map updates on SD card, I believe that statement is incorrect.
From what I've read the SD card is locked to the SD cards serial number and CANNOT be copied. However, it can be used in any Garmin and not restricted to one unit.

There is no installation process, you merely insert the SD card and the Nuvi reads its contents. The SD card is READ ONLY so while inserted into a Nuvi there is no writing to the SD card.

CraigW's post confirms my beliefs that it is legal to sell one time map updates. Perhaps some sellers on Ebay fall into that category. But you must do your due diligence when making the Ebay purchase and don't buy any LIFETIME map updates.

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

More Info

While researching SD card purchase from Garmin for the UK\Ireland map I found a disturbing statement.
That particular map on an SD card does not offer lane assist, that really sucks. I can understand no junction view but not lane assist.
I wonder if this is just a typo.

If you check on the full North America map on SD card
in makes no mention that lane assist NOT being available.I would not purchase an SD card if lane assist was not present.

microSD™/SD™ card Requirements (Uk\Ireland)
Make sure your device is compatible with this product before purchasing.
To view and use the maps on this card, you must have a compatible device with a microSD or SD card slot. Maps on microSD/SD cards cannot be copied or viewed on a computer.
Reduced price map updates are not available for these cards. If you want to update the maps, you must purchase a new card that includes the latest map data.

Please note, these full-version maps do not contain premium content such as Lane Assist and junction view. These features only are available on the preloaded maps within your device or through a specific update for the mapping region of your device.

The microSD/SD card package includes a microSD card and an SD card adapter.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/maps/on-the-road-maps/city-n...
Under Version – Change from Download to SD card

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

Transferring & selling

A pre-programmed card can be used in multiple devices:

https://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?caseId={16315fb0-39b2-11de-5dd5-000000000000}

"Pre-programmed datacards are immediately ready for use out of the box. Simply unpack the card and insert it into your compatible GPS device. These maps do not need to be unlocked to your device which allows you to move the card to multiple devices if desired"

nuMaps Lifetime policy:

https://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?caseId={faefc030-14c6-11de-76c5-000000000000}

"Because map updates (including the nuMaps Lifetime subscription) do not require registration, they may still be accessed if the device is sold or given away as long as the device has not been registered. If the device has been registered to a myGarmin account and lifetime updates were purchased separately, removing the device from the account will also remove the lifetime subscription."

Perhaps jgermann can add this to his Index & FAQ page if he believes it's worthy in doing so.

--
Nüvi 255WT with nüMaps Lifetime North America born on 602117815 / Nüvi 3597LMTHD born on 805972514 / I love Friday’s except when I’m on holidays ~ canuk

I stand corrected

I stand corrected (please don't tell my wife).

"Pre-programmed datacards are immediately ready for use out of the box. Simply unpack the card and insert it into your compatible GPS device. These maps do not need to be unlocked to your device which allows you to move the card to multiple devices if desired"

--
Garmin 205, 260W, 1450LMT, 2460LMT, HEREwego for iPhone ... all still mapping strong.

Lots to think about

muell9k wrote:

While researching SD card purchase from Garmin for the UK\Ireland map I found a disturbing statement...
Please note, these full-version maps do not contain premium content such as Lane Assist and junction view. These features only are available on the preloaded maps within your device or through a specific update for the mapping region of your device...

I agree that it seems odd that these SD maps contain no Lane Assist. I think we both have thought that Lane Assist is built into the map file (and should be there for SD users) while the JCV file is a separate file which could be easily removed.

But without evidence to the contrary, I'd play it safe and assume that SD maps do not offer JCV or LA features.

As has been touched upon in other threads here, given these issues and the cost of an across-the-pond vacation, the best bet may be for North American nuvi owners to NOT look for a used Europe-on-SD map to insert into their North American nuvi, but instead, to buy a European nuvi model with Europe (or a subset of Europe) as the default map, complete with JV and LA and possibly other features (3D, Safety Cameras, ?). To me, this is the best decision (have two nuvis, one for each side of the pond) for folks who frequently find themselves on both continents—and for 1-time visits to Europe from NA for folks who want Lane Assist and other features, once your vacation ends, sell the used European nuvi on the UK's or other European ebay web site (or NA's ebay with international shipping). I may not have thought this in the past when limited-feature nuvis were selling for several hundred dollars, but now that a nuvi with several features (LA & JV) with lifetime maps for either side of the Atlantic can be bought for under US$200, it's another thing to consider rather than try to add the Other Continent to an already-owned nuvi from The Other Side. The only other option I see is to buy the Europe (or UK/Ireland, in your case) map-on-SD and live with the lack of LA, JV and ??

I might Add

CraigW wrote:

I agree that it seems odd that these SD maps contain no Lane Assist. I think we both have thought that Lane Assist is built into the map file (and should be there for SD users) while the JCV file is a separate file which could be easily removed.

But without evidence to the contrary, I'd play it safe and assume that SD maps contain neither JCV or LA.

In addition, for those that have units with Voice Command, buying either a one time update or lifeteime updates will not provide the voice command files needed. You will lose that feature for those who rely on it.

So as CraigW suggested it's best to buy a cheap unit with Euro maps that have lifetime map updates that will give you the Lane Assist, Junction View, and Voice Command if it's important to you.

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

A final(?) question

muell9k wrote:

...it's best to buy a cheap unit with Euro maps that have lifetime map updates that will give you the Lane Assist, Junction View, and Voice Command if it's important to you.

For those in North America planning a driving European vacation, how easy, cheap, and speedy-delivery-ish, etc. (Customs, shipping delays, ??) is it to buy a European model nuvi from within the US, Canada, Mexico, etc? Is it easier or safer/better to plan to buy the European nuvi right after you arrive in the UK or wherever rather than have it in hand before packing and leaving for Europe?

hard to say

You can find answers to your questions on-line. Prices for nuvis in Europe are on line, as is shipping. It all depends on individual needs. If you will travel a few times to Europe it may make sense to buy EU Nuvi. If you go once it may be enough to buy EU maps on SD card and use them on your US nuvi.

done

canuk wrote:

...
Perhaps jgermann can add this to his Index & FAQ page if he believes it's worthy in doing so.

Good Addition.

Thanks to canuk!

@CraigW

Having no lane assist on the UK\Ireland map on SD is certainly an error on Garmins part.

I checked the specs for the full Euro Map, which includes the UK and Ireland and it does not say lane assist is not included in the map.

As we both suspected, lane assist is part of the mapset and will always be present. Once again Garmin fails to provide accurate information.

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

Interesting

muell9k wrote:

Having no lane assist on the UK\Ireland map on SD is certainly an error on Garmins part.

I checked the specs for the full Euro Map, which includes the UK and Ireland and it does not say lane assist is not included in the map.

As we both suspected, lane assist is part of the mapset and will always be present. Once again Garmin fails to provide accurate information.

Yes, if I were planning a driving vacation anywhere in Europe and Lane Assist is part of the Map-on-SD-card maps and if I could find the needed map-on-Sd for under $50 on ebay, I'd go for that rather than buy a European nuvi.

Not that it matters since I'd much rather drive north through Canada/AK on vacation than plan my next vancation across the Atlantic, so my maps are good as they are right now smile

.

spex wrote:

Thanks for your reply.
I just contacted the seller and he replied to me saying that I'd have to buy legit map from garmin.com, meaning he's selling pirated maps. WTF.

That's one dumb reply. Why's he selling that junk in the first place then?