Since I never seem to get a ticket

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10/21/court-says-not-so...

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/08/29/is-camera-technology-...

Dear God, I hope not!

--

it's the dog's fault

that pays to have the RLC installed and maintained over say a 2 year period which would take out the fluke of any camera not making money more than 12 months. My guess is you can't. If an RLC is not generating revenue it's almost always removed or moved to somewhere it will make money. This proves they are there primarily to make money.
If it was in fact safety as the primary motive they would be on every street corner and cities would gladly pay money to keep us all safe.

If the camera is "no longer making money" it may because the behavior of the drivers have changed so they no longer run the light or trip the sensor so the camera is moved to another location so the drivers can be educated all over again.

Oh, as far as the locals having traffic officers, the ones around the DC area are usually investigating accidents caused by speeding drivers and red light runners.

why do I get the feeling that you were not president of your debate society, and that philosophy is not your forte?!

We're all cynical to some degree, there's nothing inhuman about it. This is the extreme.

I'm sorry, but I think stopping at a yellow light sounds dangerous. Most people stop for red lights, therefore, are not expecting the people in front of them to stop at a yellow, when they could have safely made it through the intersection.

From the Illinois Rules of the Road book 2014

Yellow light--The yellow light warns that the signal is changing from green to red. When the red light appears, you may not enter the intersection.

It almost sounds like you are advocating people should not react to a warning. If the fuel guage on your vehicle is anywhere above the empty point, you are free to travel anyplace you desire not considering you could not reach your destination because you have no "motion lotion." Or what about the yellow light that shows up on your dash indicating you may have a problem with a tire? Because the tire isn't flat, you can just ignore it. Same thing for a traffic signal. If the light is yellow, you can continue to travel at speed approaching the intersection jut because it doesn't say STOP. I guss they should take all those red, eight sided signs down that have the acronymn meaning Slight Tap On Pedal and make them yellow because doing anything is optional.

@twix, I disagree that stopping when the yellow light appears is dangerous. "Slamming on the brakes" is dangerous but I do no think that was what archae86 was saying at all.

The question is how likely am I to be able to enter the intersection before the light turns red? Will I have to accelerate to be able to do so? If I feel that I would have to accelerate, then I will brake to stop. If I know I would likely not make it to the intersection before the light turns red EVEN IF I accelerate, I will ease off the gas and try to coast to a stop.

I really think you do probably do the same thing and that you have misunderstood the point that archae86 was trying to make which, I think, is that there are too many people who want to push the envelope, so to speak, to see if they can make it through the light before the cross traffic starts up.

One, When Government shares profits with contractor, there will be kick backs and bribes, also rigging for greater profits!!

Two, You don't get to explain your reasons/actions on site to a person who also might have witnessed and understand your reason. You have take day off to fight it and again you'll be talking to a Judge who only sees the video and has no knowledge of associated on site situation!!!

To jgermann and Box Car,

To recap,

archae86 wrote:

Just today I stopped when a light turned yellow. It was easy--no panic stop required. The fellow behind me gave me a vigorous finger of disapproval. He clearly wanted me to "get through while I could" so he could "get through with no more than perhaps a little stretch".

Box Car,

I am not advocating ignoring warnings. I am merely saying that stopping for a yellow light is not what drivers are expecting. That's not even what you're supposed to do. If we are supposed to stop for yellows, I've been doing it wrong since I started driving.

jgman,

I did not misunderstand anything. archae86 said she stopped for a yellow, and indicated that the person behind her was upset, and would probably had made it through the intersection, just barely. I certainly hope cross traffic wasn't about to enter the intersection, considering it was a yellow light.

To you both, I'm not talking about all circumstances, or that I don't react to yellow lights. I'm saying that I don't stop for yellows, and I don't think people should start doing that. It is my belief that that would be dangerous. I mean, heck, I can react very quickly to yellows, but that's not the point. The point is to safely exit the intersection, and be prepared to stop.

The "dilemma zone" has been defined recently to be the area in which it may be difficult for a driver to decide whether to stop or proceed through an intersection at the onset of the yellow-signal indication. It is also referred to as the "option zone" or the "zone of indecision". One potential countermeasure to reduce red-light running is to reduce the likelihood that a vehicle will be in the dilemma zone at the onset of the yellow interval. This can be accomplished by placing vehicle detectors at the dilemma zone. They detect if a car is at the dilemma zone immediately before the onset of the yellow interval. If a vehicle is there, the green interval can be extended so that the vehicle can travel through the dilemma zone and prevent the onset of the yellow while in the dilemma zone. When combined with a speed detector, the countermeasure is even more beneficial. This countermeasure is referred to as dilemma-zone protection or green extension systems.

Source:
http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/redlight/cameras/rlr...

Not so recently. It was known when I was doing a little serious traffic work a couple of decades ago.

Some local lights have dilemma sensors as well as logic to turn the light yellow when a reduction in traffic volume is detected. It seems every month or two I am 8 or 10 cars back waiting to turn left at a red light that turns green and the car in front of me is overly slow at keeping up with traffic. The extended space in front of him is interpreted as reduced volume, triggering the light to turn yellow. Of course he triggers the dilemma sensor, timing the light change so that he easily clears the intersection and I cannot even consider it. Since I understand what happened it is really irritates me that the driver who failed to respond to traffic clears the intersection and also causes me to have to wait another complete light cycle.

To outlaw cars, then we have no need for traffic signals or cameras. Oh how simple some things can be

We question whether or not it's reasonable to expect a driver to not run a red light. We've all done it because we were late, be honest.

What is no longer acceptable is claiming it's yellow, when it's actually red. Because there is video to support the reality of the situation.

Some seem to be against the video that shows what happened, and so we keep dancing around this topic.

Hockey players (even 4 y.o.) and soccer players know how to stay onside, I'm pretty sure any adult who cannot understand yellow and red lights should have their licenses revoked.

I don't think driving is a right, it is a privilege. imho an exam should be administered every 1 to 2 years, and the top 95% get licenses, the bottom 5% are revoked permanently. There has to be a tiny bit of competition to remove the bad element.

"To you both, I'm not talking about all circumstances, or that I don't react to yellow lights. I'm saying that I don't stop for yellows, and I don't think people should start doing that. It is my belief that that would be dangerous."

Then you better not be behind me. When a light turns yellow, I stop if there is time. After all it is an indication that a red is coming.

And of course a comment will now be made "what if you are at the line or too close to the light". We can debate that till the cows come home, but you stated "you don't stop for yellow lights". So you are the person that blows through the intersection at the last possible second.

Yellow, "Prepare to Stop"!

from https://dps.sd.gov/licensing/driver_licensing/rules_of_road....

"A steady YELLOW traffic light means the traffic light is about to change to red. You must stop if it is safe to do so. If you are in the intersection when the yellow light comes on, do not stop but continue through the intersection. A flashing YELLOW traffic light means slow down and proceed with caution. A YELLOW arrow means that the protection of a green arrow is ending and if you are turning in the direction of the arrow, you should prepare to stop and give the right of way to oncoming traffic before turning."

from http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/pa_driversmanual/chapte...

"A STEADY YELLOW LIGHT tells you a steady red light will soon appear. If you are driving toward an intersection and a yellow light appears, slow down and prepare to stop. If you are within the intersection or cannot stop safely before entering the intersection, continue through carefully."

from https://www.massrmv.com/rmv/mcmanual/18_TrafficSignals.pdf

"A steady yellow light means the traffic signal is changing from green to
red. You must stop if it is safe to do so. If you are already stopped at an
intersection or a stop line, you may not proceed."

from http://www.123driving.com/flhandbook/flhb-traffic-signals.sh...

"Stop if you can. The light will soon be red."

from https://www.michigan.gov/documents/SOS_WEDMK_7_Signs_Pavemen...

"A solid yellow arrow warns you that the left turn signal is about to change to red. If you are approaching the intersection, you must stop. However, if you are already within the intersection and there is no conflicting traffic present, you may complete your left turn."

from http://www.nmcycling.org/advocacy/NM_Driver_Manual_Jun11.pdf

"A steady YELLOW traffic light means the traffic light is about to change to red. You must stop if it is safe to do so. If you are in the intersection when the yellow light comes on, do not stop but continue through the intersection."

My wife is a lot like my friend, she doesn't understand why anyone needs a GPS that chimes when there is a red light cam.

She was driving last night and said, "Can I mute this thing? At least turn it down?"

Lo and behold, she went 50 mph through a yellow and there was a red light cam. She didn't even dream of slowing down, the speed limit is 55 mph. I looked up at the yellow, and realized, once again, THERE IS NO WAY THAT A TICKET CAN BE ISSUED.

There is a 0% chance that a video can show our vehicle behind the line, when the light turned red. Because I looked up and saw yellow until the signal was not in my view anymore.

That light should remain yellow for over 5 sec. A person must not so so uncoordinated as to feel confusion over how long the light has been yellow and have no ability to make a proper decision. If the light has already been yellow for 4.5 sec, and you are approaching, guess what? It may be a good idea to stop.

This is not rocket surgery. Before rlcs, did people have a hard time figuring out whether to stop or go? C'mon, now.

Okay, guys, maybe if I explain it like this...

Just as we're not supposed to blow through red lights, I do not think people are supposed to STOP at yellow lights. If a person, such as archae86, is stopping at a yellow, when they could have proceeded safely through the intersection, which is how I interpreted what they wrote, I do not believe it is safe for anyone to stop at a yellow.

If you guys think it's safe, by all means, stop at a yellow. I have been driving through yellows without problems, i.e., tickets, accidents, violations from red light camera intersections, etc. Going through a yellow light is perfectly fine. Until they start giving out tickets for blowing a yellow light, I will continue to safely drive through them.

It's understandable that people would try to stop on yellow if there is a ticketing camera present. It is not like they know exactly when it is going to turn red. I try to avoid intersections with cameras if at all possible.

NY-107 in Jericho, NY by SUNY Old Westbury has a similar setup. There is stretch of highway where the left lane is turn into the college, a middle crosshatched safety area and the right lane for cars proceeding north. Cars will often zip up the left lane and then at the last second cut across the safety zone to jump in front of all the cars backed up at the light heading north. Only a few times have I seen the local PD run a sting lining up all the violators at the side of the road. I do wish they would do it more often as that is something you learn in first grade; no cutting the line. Oddly it is usually people driving high-end cars (BMW, Lexus, Mercedes) doing it as I suspect the mentality is "the more bucks I paid for the car, the bigger the chunk of road I am entitled too". And they are easy to anticipate because you see one of these high-end cars in the left college bound lane zipping past everyone and you just know they are not going to the college. Sure enough they get up to the light and suddenly dart right.

Your original statement was:

Several of us took exception to your thinking that stopping at a yellow light sounded dangerous.

You offered the Illinois rules, I think, to support your position but it did not because it contained no wording as to what was expected of a driver when the light changed to yellow. It certainly did not imply that one was to make every effort to get through the intersection before the light turned red.

WindWalker posted

I followed up with 5 links from various States where the message was
" You must stop if it is safe to do so", or,
"slow down and prepare to stop. If you are within the intersection or cannot stop safely before entering the intersection, continue through carefully.", or,
"stop if it is safe to do so", or,
"Stop if you can", or,
"You must stop if it is safe to do so"

I, and several others, have been taught that we should stop for a yellow light if we safely could.

We have, over the years, experienced nothing "dangerous" about doing so.

Your most recent post says:

I assume that you also keep enough distance between you and the car in front of you so that you can safely stop if that person in front is one of us who thinks that we should stop at yellow lights if it is safe to do so. That must be the case because you have had no accidents.

No one cares and pays the fine because there are NO POINTS on your lic! If the officer said, "no points, just a $50 fine." You would drive away happier than a pig in shyte.. But, in New York 5 points for a cellphone summons and a fine, 3 points for a red light.. All summonses come with POINTS.. Watch your car insurance go up for I think its 5 years, I might be wrong.. Any insurance guys on the forum.. Oh, with regards to the yellow light duration.. Many municipalities re engineer the intersection and move the stop line to benefit them, not you.. Be glad there are no points with these RLC's..

There are some 500 municipalities with red light cameras. Can you name 5 of the "[many] municipalities [that] re engineer the intersection and move the stop line"?

NYC, Nassau, Suffolk.. Been there, watched it happen.. When they repaint the lines in the intersections they re engineer the placement of said lines on the recommendation of the company that oversees the cameras... remember, this is not about motorist safety, it's just about revenue. There are no two intersections alike. The geometry is different in all cases.. You think the contractors measure the placement of the stop line? If they were concerned about the fatalities caused by people making right turns on red, 80% or more of the revenue generated in Suffolk county, they would pass a law, NO TURNS ON RED.. and forgo the revenue brought in by the cameras.. But NOOOO... Remember, installed in accordance with the NYS VTL and NYC, Suffolk, Nassau traffic rules is all that is needed for prima facie. Who knows the actual dimensions.. Have you ever pulled up on a stop sign where the painted line is 20feet or more behind the stop sign? What's up with that, oh the pole for the sign was already there from before the intersection was re engineered.. I could go on. but I am getting upset about how out of control this issue has become.. Google Earth some intersections around your neighborhood and see how messed up the line geometry is..

You have offered an opinion that activity at intersections that involved stop lines was somehow intended to ... (with an implication that this would benefit the municipality somehow by ... what could it be? making it more likely that a red light would be run?)

I was hoping that you would be able to point to articles which have held up after making claims that a municipality had re-engineered an intersection to make it more likely that you would be caught at a red light. If that was not what you meant to imply, then I apologize.

Repainting stop lines is not something that has anything to do with yellow light timing and red light running in my opinion.

Please give us a better explanation of how any of this would benefit a municipality and harm citizens.

Using my favorite statement from one of my college professors, "Intuitively obvious to casual observer!"

we need more cams, let's face it.

Look at the good they do (abduction last weekend)

I was at a 4-way yesterday, and we know, it's FIFO.

I was making a left and did not expect the vehicle crossing on my right to roll the intersection at maybe 5-7 mph. Cams would stop all this BS. It wouldn't change the intersection dynamics--I'm making a left, I would still yield to someone blowing the intersection. Just that the offender would get a $480 violation in the mail, and eventually, change his behavior.

There is another possible fix..... Quit driving

I'm an Albuquerque resident, so this quotation from the New Mexico Driver's manual as published at their MVD site is apt:

"A steady YELLOW traffic light means the traffic light is about to change to red. You must stop if it is safe to do so."

What part of "you must stop" is so hard to understand?

Even in this case where they appear tone guilty, I still believe a sworn officer of the law should be issuing the ticket and present in court if contested.

@ "FrSide007" who said in part...

It seems to me that your above statement indicates you're living in a utopia while wearing rose colored glasses.

Cops all across the US do (and get away with doing) illegal things on a daily basis. Just because you believe that "getting a ticket by a cop automatically makes you guilty", doesn't make it so.

As a example, go to "Carlos Millers" web site, ie:

http://PhotographyIsNotaCrime.com/

There you will find hundreds and hundreds of examples of people being arrested for "LEGALLY" taking photos and videos in public... yet the cops "ILLEGALLY" arrest them, knowing full well that the DA is going to drop all charges against them... resulting in $$$$ lawsuits being won by the photographers.

FrSide007... I think you need to take off those rose colored glasses and bring reality back into your life.

Nuvi1300WTGPS

There are a couple of major intersections in my area where (if one is waiting to make a left in the left turning lane), it may take anywhere from 4 to 6 minutes to do so.

Nuvi1300WTGPS

That there's good and bad in every profession out there including yours

The first phase is to fine the offenders $480 for the violation. But the 2nd phase would be like you say, to get the offenders to quit driving aka revocation.

This is the internet, it's kind of like driving a car with your windows up, suddenly your b**** get really big. How much you want to bet that the majority of folks here actually do know that red means stop, they just like to continue to argue? lol

The intent of this thread was merely to discuss an
ACTUAL violation that my buddy emailed me, and it got jacked once again into rights, loopholes, reasons to not obey the law...childish

Oh goodie.. we can play hangman... it's a word guessing game... now what could.. b**** spell out???

I know.. BOOBS!!!! that's it and it's the kind that are defined like...

boob (buːb)
n
1. an ignorant or foolish person; booby
2. Brit an embarrassing mistake; blunder

why do I get the feeling you live in some bubble and have not seen numerous reports where cities and municipalities have shortened yellow light timing to increase revenue which may not be illegal but is certainly unethical. Call it cynical but I prefer a realist view of the world, not one from fantasy land or a fool. Funny how you don't dispute or refute anything that I stated.

Because we all know that kidnappers run all red lights.

Do you think law enforcement has learned this yet?

Just think how fast all the Amber & Silver alerts will be resolved now with this information

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyV2cPLuFuA

A lot of sensors aren't tweaked correctly so as to pick up the presence of a motorcycle in a left turn lane to trigger a light change. So much so, a few states have passed a law that allows a motorcycle to proceed through a red after waiting a complete cycle where the bike was ignored by the light sensor never getting the green.

by title VII, but you don't work for me.

What year did you graduate high school?

What I am driving at is we all have differing opinions, and sometimes it has to do with our current interaction with society, work, home, kids, church, experience with LE, etc.

I do not disagree that monkeying with yellows is unethical. But to apply that across the board is simply foolish.

And again, if you cannot make a stop/go decision because someone shaved 0.2 sec off of a light, you are uncoordinated and should have your license revoked. Hockey and soccer players even at age 3-4 can stay onside in a play.

What is strange though, is for the driver of a motor vehicle, to sit through 3 cycles of a light, and not realize that it's not the light, it's them. I've seen the same thing where there is ramp metering, a car is too far behind the line, and only one lane is given a green. The part that I don't get is how the motorist is in Dzzzny land just sitting there, then offended when someone taps the horn to nudge them forward. Should we all just sit there like dummies? lol

I've had to motion for a car that pulled up behind me to get closer in order to trip a light. Places where Inductive loops are used I can get the light to change most of the time by positioning my bike over an intersection in the loop, I have a strong magnet on the underside of the bike which "breaks" the circuit.

Proceed on yellow....from what distance? Your criteria doesn't make sense.

Some state traffic regulations, e.g. Massachusetts, specify to proceed on yellow if safe to do so. Otherwise, stop. No timing or distance is given.

I know you're just being facetious....proceed on yellow, so that your vehicle has cleared the stop line by the time the light turns red.

think of a bunch of 4 y.o. kids playing ice hockey or soccer, they were not born knowing how to stay onside, they had to learn it. But they are 4 y.o. and can do it. We are so far beyond grandpa's days when he actually told the police officer the light was green, not red. Technology removes the ability to lie.