NO - RVND7720 *.csv load errors!

 

Recognizing Rand McNally is a late comer to this site (in comparision to the other GPS') it is no wonder the Rand McNally (RM) FAQs are a bit thinner than the others.

There are posts stating RM .csv are not Garmin .csv. There are a couple of year old posts stating details about the RM database and expected fields. That year old post even offers an order for the record fields. It appears the author of Extra_POI_Editor (EPE) made a couple of tweaks based on this earlier work. Yet there is nothing I can find that clearly says here is how to prepare a RM *.csv file, or how I was able to do it.

Virginia_Wineries_D.csv and Caves_of_the_USA.csv produced "Imported with invalid format:" error for virtually every record on my 7720. I wanted to know why, or at least find a way of reducing the number of errors.

This post shares a process that produced ZERO *.csv load errors on two different POI files. While two successes isn't absolute proof of the process it does provide a positive indication.

If this Forum allows, I'll update this post's list of files successfully converted and uploaded to my RVND 7720 (7720). At the bottom of this post you will find some relevant specifics about the resources and versions.

NOTE: This process is heavily dependent on the quality and formating of the source *.gpx file. The old "garbage in garbage out (GIGO) principle applies here.

I presume you have already installed EPE and performed the basic configuration steps listed in jgermann's Thu, 05/02/2013 - 9:30am Extra POI Editor post.

My first step was to select Options -> M-Column CSV Fields from the main menu.
My second step was to construct (and save) a Rand McNally M-Column CSV profile. I used the field order as listed on page 49, item 4 of "enter your own list" of the User Manual.
Col1: Latitude
Col2: Longitude
Col3: POI Name
Col4: Address
Col5: City
Col6: State
Col7: Post Code
Col8: Country

My third step was to down load and open a *.gpx file of my choice in EPE
My fourth step was to verify my Rand McNally M-Column CSV profile was selected
My fifth step was to select File -> Save As from the menu
My sixth step was to open the Save as type drop down and select M-Column CSV (*.csv) file type
My seventh step was to save the Rand McNally M-Column formated file
My eighth step was to load the POI using Rand McNally Dock.

There is still much to learn. At least I can now get a *.csv file to load without generating the "Imported with invalid format:" error. I also know what record data was loaded.

Resources and Details:
Rand McNally Dock Version: 1.0.5046.30570
RVND 7720 Software Version: 3.56.2922.1315
RVND 7720 last Dock update: 4 January 2014
RVND_7720_User_Manual_120918 (c) 2012, Page 49, Item 4

TurboCCC
Extra_POI_Editor Version: 5.91

Zero Error Loaded POI Source Files (downloaded 4 January 2014)
Virginia_Wineries_D.gpx
Caves_of_the_USA.gpx

you are also missing a field

Your description of the fields used by the RM units is missing the phone field so there actually are 9 different fields. As the RM units use a different file layout for their CSV files, there is the very great possibility that embedded commas found in the 4th or description field of a Garmin file won't map to a RM file. As there is no set format for the free-form description field in a Garmin, there is no guarantee the file would load in an RM unit but is perfectly usable in either a Garmin or Tom-Tom.

There is a thread about converting GPX to RM CSV started by the SysOp, JM. It lays out the 9 fields used by the RM units and goes into why JM wrote the code to extract the proper fields from the GPX to the RM CSV. Bottom line, all CSV means is there are commas separating the elements in the file.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

9th Phone Field

Boxcar,
Appreciate your concern about my understanding comma delimiters. Several years of UNIX file exchanges with other systems made me quite comfortable with converting pipe, tab, comma, and column delimited files. So I don't really see the problem originating with the use of a comma to separate fields in a file.

In spite of all that has been said about these readily available RM CSV files. I have very few of this site's CSV files load in my RM without generating a massive number of errors. That is what started me exploring for patterns.

I started by reading several of your, Sandpiper, JM and some other posts to understand the RM field layout and what people had tried. Several of the posts indicated a 9th field for a phone number. This site's CSV files contained phone numbers. I know RM contains phone numbers. I see them. So they are real.

Though a series of truth table like tests of the various field position permutations, I discovered the presence of the phone field was related to the massive error rates I was experiencing. Laying out a record with the fields sequenced as described above produced a clean POI load for me on those two files.

So in which of the 9 possible field positions should the phone field be placed? I'm not sure. I do know that where it was placed in the two POI Factory downloaded test files produced errors. When it was removed the errors went away. If there is a post on this site that explains this I'd appreciate being pointed to it.

I don't pretend to understand what those of you who have been on this site, and doing this, for years understand. I'll be the first to acknowledge I still have a lot more to learn about this.

I've not given up on finding a "phone" field position that works for me. It is just taking longer than I had expected to block out the time to do it.

Thanks for your assistance with my search. It is appreciated.

Thank you

Thank you for understanding that when I posted my rather basic response I had no idea of your background or familiarity with file formats. The routine JM incorporated to create RM format CSV files will only convert files posted in GPX format. I know in discussions when JM first introduced the feature he stated he had been working directly with RM on which fields were used and what their position within the RM file was.

While I don't have an RM unit I do know their files need the commas to separate fields even if there is no data. At least that is what is inferred looking at some of their sample files. My tutorial on creating and editing CSV files using Extra_POI_Editor is also a tutorial on what data I put into my GPX files and how to setup a profile or profiles that I use to create all my files posted on POI-Factory.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

No Prob

Your tutorials have been of great use to me. Without them I would have had a much steeper learning curve.

I agree with your assessment on a null field still needing to be represented with he appropriate commas. If not it throws off the sequence and position of all the following fields. And that typically (often) causes a data type mismatch and other errors.

Knowing how things can change (get tweaked) between releases in the software world, I included the various versions of the software on my RM for reference. But that may not be relevant in this situation.

Hope you are warm and dry on wintery day.

@ dlazenby and BoxCar

First, I know nothing about Rand McNally.

That said, I did some research and here is what I find.

from http://www.randmcnally.com/support/article/adding-custom-poi...

Quote:

Adding Custom Points of Interest (POIs)

Last Updated: October 31, 2013

Categories: RV GPS

Rand McNally currently supports the import of custom points of interest into the RV GPS. These can be locations you manually create in a spreadsheet, or from a third-party source, such as POI Factory.com.

There is a sample POI file you can download
The format of this file is
longitude,latitude,name,address

From the RVND-7720 manual

Quote:

enter your own list. Tips for formatting your own list of POIs:
1. Files must be in .csv format.
2. You can enter locations by longitude/latitude (in decimal format),
address, or both.
3. Separate each piece of information with a comma.
Do not use spaces before or after commas.

Enter in order the longitude, latitude, location name, street address,
city, state, zip, and country. For example:
• Longitude/latitude and address:
-87.761039,42.059611,Rand McNally,9855 Woods
Dr,Skokie,IL,60077,USA
• Longitude/latitude only:
-87.761039,42.059611,Rand McNally
• Address only:
,,Rand McNally,9855 Woods Dr,Skokie,IL,60077,USA
(Note: In this example, there are two commas at the beginning.
Commas are required as placeholders for fields with no data
in them.)

From the TND-710 manual

Quote:

Add a Custom POI Location Method 3 (Full Information)

NOTE: Enter longitude first.
1. Enter the longitude followed by a comma(,)
2. Enter the latitude first followed by a comma (,)
3. Enter the name (with spaces) followed by a comma
4. Provide the phone number.
a. Enter the phone number followed by a comma (,)
b. If you don't know the phone number, enter a comma (,)
5. Enter the street address followed by a comma (,)
6. Enter the city followed by a comma (,)
7. Spell the state name out (such as Illinois) followed by a comma (,)
8. Enter the country name
NOTE: Do not add a comma at the end of the row.
9. When finished adding locations, save the file
10. Send the file to your TND.

What I find is inconsistency. The two devices give instructions that are not compatible with each other.

Indeed, the sample file provided by Rand McNally would not appear to work correctly (maybe better to say not as expected) in the TND-710.

Now, since poi-factory is involved, I want us to work out what is going on. I am going to continue looking for other RM unit manuals to see what they say. Hopefully RM owners will jump in here and give us whatever they find in their owners manuals.

@BoxCar, refresh my memory of where the 9 field format came from.

An entirely different format is detailed at
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42005

another at
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/38432

here

jgermann wrote:

@BoxCar, refresh my memory of where the 9 field format came from.

another at
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/38432

You answered your own question. The other reference is in the discussion thread where JM announced he would convert GPX files to RM CSV format.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

Yes, I did

Box Car wrote:
jgermann wrote:

@BoxCar, refresh my memory of where the 9 field format came from.

another at
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/38432

You answered your own question. The other reference is in the discussion thread where JM announced he would convert GPX files to RM CSV format.

For some reason, I thought that you had indicated somewhere that the 9th field should be "phone" but in reviewing the discussions I see that you only said that the "phone" field was missing and that would make "9" fields.

That said, I think RM is publishing conflicting information because their sample file has "address" as the 4th field as does their RVND-7720 manual whereas the TND-710 manual indicates that "phone" should be the 4th field.

I spent about an hour trying to find out how to get to user manuals for the various RM units and could not find the way to do so. The manuals that I did get were direct links from Google searching. The RM website itself gave me no clue (although I will not be surprised to find that it is there and obvious). Hope someone will point us in the right direction.

I would love to know what other RM manuals say about building your own Custom POI files.

Rand McNally csv files

I am new to the Rand McNally gps having just bought a 7720. I had been using Garmin and never assumed the files that were good for Garmin would be good for Rand McNally, even in their csv format. Most hardware companies create their own proprietary format for their devices.

What I did was download the files I needed from this web site, looked at the formats of each file and converted the field order I found into the correct field order for the 7720. The user manual gives the expected layout for the 7720 and that is what I used. That process eliminated any import errors.

I also made the assumption that just because a format worked for the 7720 did not mean that it would work for any other RM device. I expect that the 7710, 7720 and 7725 would use the same format but not that any other RM gps would be guaranteed to work.

As for the phone number, there does not seem to be any place for it in the 7720 csv layout, but it can easily be added to any other field using something like a ; to do so. That is what I did when I felt I needed a phone number.

As an aside, the 7720 comes with so many POIs already installed that I am not sure I need half of the ones I converted. Although I can not say I am completely happy with the 7720 (why doesn't it search for POIs anywhere in the US?) it does seem to work well in my RV. It looks like a large screen TV in my car but seems about right for the RV.

--
MikeFromMesa

Ah Ha

dlazenby wrote:

Boxcar,
Several years of UNIX file exchanges with other systems made me quite comfortable with converting pipe, tab, comma, and column delimited files.

Ah Ha - Another UNIX user. I use IBM's AIX version of Unix.

Welcome to the site.

I deal with AIX to PC files almost every day. Our folks like to use tilde (~) delimited files. The designers keep putting commas in the comments and other fields in the CAD files. Really screws up Xcel when too many columns appear on a row. Imbedded commas or illegal characters are a real pain sometimes for a Garmin POI file.

At least with Garmin's POI Loader, it does tell you which line has a problem. If it's an illegal character, then it's best to use notepad or some other pure text editor and re-type the line manually.

Good luck with your project. Keep us posted on your progress and final results.

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Metricman DriveSmart 76 Williamsburg, VA