Apple maps: how Google lost when everyone thought it had won

 

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/11/apple-maps...

Is Apple Maps perfect? No. Neither is Google. Or Garmin Nuvi's maps. No Map is perfect. I've never had an experience using Apple's Maps that I haven't had on any other Map app - and Apple's Maps is getting better all the time.

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*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone6 + Navigon*

Apple Maps Is Very Good

I just used Apple Maps to travel round trip from New England to Virginia, running on an iPhone 4S. It worked great. I had my Montana running also. The beauty of Apple Maps is its simplicity and that it works. I have not detected a problem, bug or otherwise with Apple Maps.

The trip had several changes of plans and Maps was very easy to use. I found myself checking and using Apple Maps more than the Montana on this trip, I was very surprised. The Apple Maps experience was just so much more pleasant. I also have Google Maps on the iPhone, but haven't used it much if at all since Apple Maps has become available.

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GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Apple's in the spotlight

Although Apple Maps were sub-par, it got bad press mainly because Apple is in the spotlight with such a large following. The fact is they're not perfect either but because they are so big and there are so many Apple lovers out there, the second something doesn't go completely as planned, the media will pounce all over it.

garmin..then google.....

hard to knock a company that has had numerous foot prints in this area...unlike apple.

some pretty bad mistakes

Though I agree that some of the initial complaints seemed rather petty appearance complaints, at least one seemed terribly serious, and indicating that the crucial tasks required reliably to integrate diverse data sources had been botched.

Reports of multi hundred foot position errors in portions of the Japan mapping suggested that the absolutely fundamental task of datum reconciliation had not been performed, or performed wrongly, and that the rather rudimentary integrity checking required to notice had been neglected.

While I am no Apple lover, I don't wish bad maps on anyone, and hope that a chastened company has moved swiftly to provide a good product.

--
personal GPS user since 1992

Perhaps Google should sweat the small stuff a bit more

I recently read an opinion piece by a tech writer suggesting that Google is getting a bit sloppy. That's my experience. The pc version of maps is giving me problems, both new and "classic" to the point that I mostly use my android tablet. The android version keeps getting better but some things just don't make sense. The offline map feature was added some time ago and has disappeared and reappeared in different places as if it's a beta level product.

I know this doesn't affect the quality of the map, but if the tools aren't right, it reflects on the quality overall. If Google has set the standard, they may be lowering the bar.

Hope I'm not off topic here. Don't mean to be a Google basher but I'm a long time user of maps, mail and voice. Just don't get me started about the bug I just found in voice...

electronic maps

archae86 wrote:

Though I agree that some of the initial complaints seemed rather petty appearance complaints, at least one seemed terribly serious, and indicating that the crucial tasks required reliably to integrate diverse data sources had been botched.

Reports of multi hundred foot position errors in portions of the Japan mapping suggested that the absolutely fundamental task of datum reconciliation had not been performed, or performed wrongly, and that the rather rudimentary integrity checking required to notice had been neglected.

While I am no Apple lover, I don't wish bad maps on anyone, and hope that a chastened company has moved swiftly to provide a good product.

The roll out of Apple maps was a product that didn't meet expectations and was riddled with errors, both in the datum and the integration. The reports of people being route into essentially inaccessible areas, issues where the different map segments didn't match and many other issues. Apple did two things, they fired the VP in charge of the mapping efforts and then proceeded to pour the necessary resources into correcting the errors as quickly as possible. From what was perceived as a total disaster, Apple maps turned themselves around and now have a truly great product.

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Illiterate? Write for free help.

To The Point Of The Thread

Google could still have Apple eating out of its mapping hands if it just made turn-by-turn directions available to Apple, and Google would then pretty much control the mapping space. Apple would have had what it wanted and Google would have had a much larger database to mine. Google just had a huge chunk of its mine cut off.

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GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Yep

diesel wrote:

Google could still have Apple eating out of its mapping hands if it just made turn-by-turn directions available to Apple, and Google would then pretty much control the mapping space. Apple would have had what it wanted and Google would have had a much larger database to mine. Google just had a huge chunk of its mine cut off.

That's the downfall of any company that thinks it's product is so superior that it doesn't need to work with others. Apple had a similar episode with the original "toaster" Mac. They believed everyone would flock to their (at that time) superior product and therefore they didn't need to share their hardware and software architecture with third party vendors. That would have lowered prices and maybe Mac would be the standard business computer today.

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Shooter N32 39 W97 25 VIA 1535TM, Lexus built-in, TomTom Go

Like to try it on Android

We can get Google Map on iOS. But, how come there is no Apple Map on Android?

sarcasm much?

cameotabby wrote:

We can get Google Map on iOS. But, how come there is no Apple Map on Android?

Once Pilloried Apple Maps Gets the Last Laugh

Once Pilloried Apple Maps Gets the Last Laugh
Link to article in Computerworld:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9243991/Once_pillorie...

The last two paragraphs on page 1 sum up one reason:

Quote:

But Google Maps has been at a disadvantage. As Gottheil said late last year, it was likely that most iPhone owners would stick with Apple Maps, even though it was troubled.

He stuck to that today. "Apple Maps has the advantage. It's on the first page [of the home screen], it's already on the iPhone. It's right there, it works fine. So unless you have a reason to switch, you're going to stick with Apple Maps," said Gottheil in an interview Tuesday.

Sounds like real Estate, Location, Location, Location.

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Illiterate? Write for free help.

Negotiation reminder

It also is a reminder in the negotiation process. Always be prepared to either walk away yourself or for the other party to walk away and don't negotiate with things you can't afford to lose.

Google thought that they could keep Apple without giving them voice turn-by-turn navigation. I seriously doubt Google thought that Apple would be prepared to walk away over that, but they were wrong.

I'm sure Google can afford the loss, but they didn't expect to lose that much market share as a result.

So There!

If I am properly informed, the real issue was that Google had turn-by-turn directions on Android, but Google didn't have it available for iOS and apparently didn't plan on making turn-by-turn available on iOS.

That tells how important GPS and mapping is on a mobile platform. The OEM mapping apps are turning into GPS apps. If turn-by-turn is withheld, that would have been a big disadvantage for Apple, an advantage for Google.

Perhaps Google didn't expect Apple to take it on themselves.

Many people are very satisfied using the OEM map apps as a GPS, they have no desire or interest in an app such as Garmin or Navigon because the OEM map app gets them where they want to go, and it was included on the smartphone.

My kids use the OEM map apps to travel, and wonder why I use a GPS and have specialized GPS apps on my iPhone. Now that I think about it...

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GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Mine Too

diesel wrote:

...My kids use the OEM map apps to travel, and wonder why I use a GPS and have specialized GPS apps on my iPhone. Now that I think about it...

Maybe because we're a bit older and...

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Shooter N32 39 W97 25 VIA 1535TM, Lexus built-in, TomTom Go

"a bit older and..." ?

Shooter wrote:
diesel wrote:

...My kids use the OEM map apps to travel, and wonder why I use a GPS and have specialized GPS apps on my iPhone. Now that I think about it...

Maybe because we're a bit older and...

You meant to say "stuck in our ways", right? wink

I've always taught my kids to keep it simple. Glad to see they do what I said to do, and not what I do. grin

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GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Forgetting Their Own History

jonny5 wrote:

It also is a reminder in the negotiation process. Always be prepared to either walk away yourself or for the other party to walk away and don't negotiate with things you can't afford to lose.

It seems that when companies become "successful", they forget where they came from, and how they got to where they are. Companies advance quickly by being nimble and adventurous and recognizing the future. But once they hit a certain "size" they seem to lose those abilities and become stale and arrogant - too worried about making a mistake to take a chance.

IBM learned that in dealing with Bill Gates, Microsoft learned that in looking down their noses at Apple, and now Google with Apple again.

Hubris comes with it's own penalties.

but ....

diesel wrote:

~snip~

My kids use the OEM map apps to travel, and wonder why I use a GPS and have specialized GPS apps on my iPhone. Now that I think about it...

... does using a map app on a phone (any brand) consume data time or some other "phone company" cost?

I still prefer my Garmin(s)over any of the phone apps.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

As said elsewhere in the forum...

soberbyker wrote:

... does using a map app on a phone (any brand) consume data time or some other "phone company" cost?

Depends upon the app.. some apps store maps on the device.... some don't. Get one that does, and you will not incur data costs... My Nuvi765t is my last stand-alone device.

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*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone6 + Navigon*

didn't see it elsewhere ....

kch50428 wrote:
soberbyker wrote:

... does using a map app on a phone (any brand) consume data time or some other "phone company" cost?

Depends upon the app.. some apps store maps on the device.... some don't. Get one that does, and you will not incur data costs... My Nuvi765t is my last stand-alone device.

... but I wasn't looking for it either wink so accessing the satellite for GPS like mapping doesn't incur any charges from your carrier?

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. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Have To Pick The Plan That's Right For You

soberbyker wrote:

... does using a map app on a phone (any brand) consume data time or some other "phone company" cost?

No, using Apple Maps, or Google Maps, will not incur "phone company" cost per my current plan.

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GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

~

soberbyker wrote:

... but I wasn't looking for it either wink so accessing the satellite for GPS like mapping doesn't incur any charges from your carrier?

Nope.

Minimal data use can occur if one does a look-up of an online search engine from within the app...

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*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone6 + Navigon*

What was Google thinking?

Was Google really stupid enough to think Apple wasn't going to get Apple Maps fixed, and as quickly as possible? Google had a very, very narrow window of opportunity to take over, and the window slammed down hard on Sergey Brin's fingers.

RLC

Does apple maps, google maps or any of the other smart phone mapping apps do RLCs?

GPS Signals Are Free

soberbyker wrote:

... but I wasn't looking for it either wink so accessing the satellite for GPS like mapping doesn't incur any charges from your carrier?

No, accessing the satellite signals that provide GPS data will not incur charges from your carrier. GPS signals from the satellites are free.

Accessing your cell phone provider system for other data, such as mapping, is another story.

Make sure you understand that GPS signals and cell phone system access are two separate things.

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GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Yes

A cell phone has at least 3 radios, maybe 4. Cell radio, wifi radio, and bluetooth radio. I'm not sure if the 3G any 4G radios are separate or combined. The GPS is a receiver only and doesn't transmit any data at all.

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Frank Nuvi 3597LMT 37.322760, -79.511267

That's an interesting point

In today's world, it's all about collecting information on the audience to then sell to someone else ... By losing 23 million Apple users, google took a huge hit.

Apple Maps vs Google Maps

I still find that the Tom Tom maps that are installed on the Apple Maps app are INCREDIBLY out of date. They haven't changed one bit in my area since I received the Apple Maps app with ios6. There are roads that have been around for over 5 years that still don't appear on the maps. Sure, Apple may have worked out some firmware bugs with the app itself over the past year, and it sure is convenient having a maps app integrated in with the ios operating system, but I still use the google maps app on my iphone. Better traffic updates AND the maps are far more up to date. I really wish Apple had actually bought their map data from Navteq/Nokia like Garmin does. As much as we complain about the maps on our Nuvis, they at least reflect road changes that have occurred within the past 2 years for the most part.

But on a different note, it doesn't surprise me at all that the majority of iphone users are using the apple maps app now as opposed to Google maps. Like I said earlier, having the apple maps app fully integrated within the ios operating system to the point where if someone sends you an address in a text message and all you have to do is tap on it to navigate to it is the main benefit and really the main reason why the Apple Maps app started being used more over time. If they would just use a different map data provider, I would be using it too.

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Garmin Nuvi 3490lmt, 765t with Lifetime maps and Clear Channel traffic

Not only Tom Tom

Here is where Apple get's it's mapping data from.

TomTom
Acxiom
AND.
CoreLogic Inc.
DigitalGlobe
DMTI
Getchee
Intermap
LeadDog
Localeze
MapData Sciences Pty LTD. Inc.
MDA Information Systems
Urban Mapping
Waze
Yelp
Department of Nautral Resources Canada
CGIAR Consortium for Spatial Information
Flickr
Geonames
GlobCover
NASA
OpenStreetMap
U.S. Census Bureau
U.S. Geological Survey
National Geospatial-intelligence Agency

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/companies-apple-gets-ios-map-...

--
If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else. - Yogi Berra

In my experience...

Google maps is more accurate than Apple.

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RKF (Bethesda, MD) Garmin Nuvi 660, 360 & Street Pilot

Google maps changes

Google maps recently made some changes (one of which was removing the "nearby" feature) which hinder rather than enhance it.

one feature

bsp131 wrote:

Google maps recently made some changes (one of which was removing the "nearby" feature) which hinder rather than enhance it.

One feature I remember from someone's online maps pre GPS was what was called a "line map." This didn't draw out roads or anything but just listed the starting point and drew a line with the distance to go to the next turn. A map would be something like From Jacksonville Airport a line would be identified as State Route 102 showing you traveling East for 2.7 miles to I-95N. From that point it would have a northerly line to Exit 38 in GA with a note it was 56.3 miles between the two. No underlying map, just simple directions telling you how far it was between two points and the road you should be on. You could have the directions for a trip from say Ottawa to Orlando on a single page if you used the Interstates all the way. I don't remember who had it, but it sure would be nice to have it back as an option.

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Illiterate? Write for free help.

Liked Google Maps, but Now Prefer Apple

I liked Google's iPhone map before the Apple maps fiasco. When Google created the maps app for the iPhone I found it difficult to use -- non intuitive too often. Lately the Apple maps app has improved to the point where I find it much easier to use than Google on the iPhone. Plus, Google has made too many "cutesy" improvements that I find are worse than if they left it alone. Google's map app can be downright frustrating to use, and I'm no technophobe.

Google is a bit too full of themselves at times. When using Google Calendar online, I detest when Google parses and strips out what I wrote, without notice or choice. For example, if I type a new appointment, "Go to little league game at 3pm", Google creates a 3pm appointment that reads, "Go to little league game at". It's nice that it parses it into a 3pm appointment in the calendar, but why the heck does it have to strip "3pm" out of what I wrote when it does so? I emailed Google about it; their reply must have taken a Google Maps route, because I never got it.

I've been back and forth

I've been back and forth too. I dislike that I can't delete apple maps, in order to force my phone to use the google maps app. On the other hand , when I am using google and click an address, and it asks if I want to open it in google maps, it lanuches safari> local.google.com instead. It seems neither sucessfully works.
But when I am in downtown manhattan both work better than the garmin with just spins in circles looking for a signal once the high rises block it.

Google maps was great but lately the search near location is bringing up few reasonable hits. So I was looking for a hospital with an ER last week and only ones it found where 50 miles away. But it found planned parent hood just 5 miles away. Well PP is across the street from the local major hospital with an ER, but until I told google maps app to search for "medical center" near my zip it didn't suceed.

Of course garmin maps couldn't find it either.

Apple maps

Ha ha google maps alot more acrute then apple

~

danshort@bluebottle.com wrote:

Ha ha google maps alot more acrute then apple

ha ha... for me, Apple maps is just fine every time I've used it. Can't say that for Google maps on iPhone...

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*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone6 + Navigon*