Round-about gone wild.

 

This round-about is new. Traffic proceeds as if it is an intersection. Through traffic encounters 2 intersections and later a merge point. An opportunity exists for T-Bone crashes. I was southbound. A W/B motorist zipped straight through ahead of me at about 45 mph.
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297/spokybob/daneCounty2...

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1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

The drivers out there just

The drivers out there just don't know how to deal with a roundabout. They're quite common in my area and they must do the job in keeping down accidents or else the traffic planners would eliminate them. The potential for accidents will always be present, especially if you have idiot motorists blasting through the thing at top speed.

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"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Round-abouts

They are a new concept in my area. People cannot, or will not, seem to get the hang of it.

New one being built currently is source of police frustration. People seem to want to ignore the detour signs and drive right through the construction. Many tickets.

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NUVI40 Kingsport TN

I don't like them.

They are one lane circles, regardless of how many lanes of traffic feed into them. The right lane is the only lane which you can use to merge into or out of the roundabout. During times of high traffic, it is almost impossible to get out of the left or center lane into the right, so most drivers stay in the right lane. This limits the amount of traffic the intersection can handle safely.

Gloriettas

In Mexico they are called gloriettas and are very common. I have been in them in Guadalajara and they are a zoo, but I guess the locals are used to them multi-lanes and all.

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Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, SmartDrive 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Round-abouts

I have traveled to Ireland quit a few times, round-abouts are very common there. The first time I used one confusing, after that you get used to them.

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things!

Our area

spokybob wrote:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297/spokybob/daneCounty201320.jpg

SE PA / S NJ area has had traffic circles (what you call round-abouts) for decades. Most times these are little problem except during heavy traffic times.
Some circles have been modified to allow straight thru driving lanes for heavy traffic roads.

I was visiting in Syracuse NY and seen a traffic circle like seen Spokybob posted, at the time there was a foot of snow on the ground and most drivers were carefully navigating turns.

Straight through

phillyguy19020 wrote:

Some circles have been modified to allow straight thru driving lanes for heavy traffic roads.

It appears that this circle does favor straight through traffic and traffic that turns to the right. These roads are in an area near Madison that are used for commuters.
The guy in my original post is not really an idiot because he was exceeding the posted limit. And I don't think I am an idiot for proceeding below the posted limit. We both preceeded consistant with our experience.
My perception of a round-about is that traffic merges and then exits, similar to limited access highways. In the example above, through traffic encounters two intersections.
I am not saying that the highway engineer is an idiot. He developed a poor design.

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1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

Round Abouts

I grew up with two round-abouts in California.
One in Long Beach and on in the City of Orange.
Since I learned to drive with them, I have never understood why some motorists dislike them.
I have seen roundabouts in both Ireland and Italy. And they work well if you understand them.
Really helps keep the traffic flowing.

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It's these changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes Nothing remains quite the same With all of our running and all of our cunning If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

Long Beach

islanderswp wrote:

I grew up with two round-abouts in California.
One in Long Beach and on in the City of Orange.
Since I learned to drive with them, I have never understood why some motorists dislike them.
I have seen roundabouts in both Ireland and Italy. And they work well if you understand them.
Really helps keep the traffic flowing.

Long Beach should be the model of how to build a round-about. It worked great even with heavy traffic. Many towns in midwest have a city square, where the courthouse is located.

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1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

Sedona, Arizona

Over the last five years or so, the Arizona Department of Transportation has added ten or eleven roundabouts to State Route 179 in the eight miles between Sedona and the Village of Oak Creek. SR 179 is the main road from the freeway if you are driving to Sedona from Phoenix. If you've ever driven that road in the past you have probably experienced some of the traffic congestion that develops there.

The raised circles in the center of the roundabouts are a very light-colored concrete. It is remarkable to see how many of those circles, several inches higher than the roadway, are covered with skid marks from vehicles that have just driven right over them.

Complaints

One of the complaints I've heard in my area is the truckers say many of them are too small for their semis.

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Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.

round a bout

i aways wondered why a 4 way stop was replaced by these things, ive had more close calls on a round a bout then a 4 way stop. on a round about they have a yeald sign if its busy you have to stop if not you proceide slowly on a 4 way stop you stop then go. are round a bouts a fasion statment for somebody that was on a vacation in rome and had to have it here?

.

geo334 wrote:

are round a bouts a fasion statment for somebody that was on a vacation in rome and had to have it here?

No, there are good, practical reasons to install roundabouts. If designed, built, and used correctly they are reputed to improve safety and reduce fuel consumption.

Round a bouts

I drove on them for 5 yrs in germany and never seen a wreck. The people here just don't get them . we have three in our area and they work great except for the ones tht won't dry to understand how they work. .Great ideal.

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johnm405 660 & MSS&T

I don't like them

I fail to understand why traffic admins are spending millions of dollars trying to re-inventing the intersection. These traffic circles are almost universally disliked by motorists. They obstruct the free-flow of traffic, cause confusion and do not contribute to safety. The only good thing I can think of to say about them is that it is almost impossible install red light cameras at one.

Roundabouts...

jackj180 wrote:

They obstruct the free-flow of traffic

Umm, so traffic signals and stop signs do not "obstruct the free-flow of traffic"...?

Traffic Lights and Stop Signs..

VersatileGuy wrote:

Umm, so traffic signals and stop signs do not "obstruct the free-flow of traffic"...?

No! Not if the traffic light is "GREEN" and the stop signs are far and few between. Other than that........

Nuvi1300WTGPS

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I'm not really lost.... just temporarily misplaced!

painting with too wide a brush

jackj180 wrote:

These traffic circles are almost universally disliked by motorists.

Motorists in Europe would likely disagree with this statement.

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"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Not just up north!

Don B wrote:

One of the complaints I've heard in my area is the truckers say many of them are too small for their semis.

Not just up north! There are several in my travels that I try to avoid if I can. One in Kansas has the front end of my tractor running on the outside edge of the circle while the trailer wheels run ON the curbing on the inside.

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KD5XB in DM84

New England traffic circles

My relatives in New Hampshire have told me the round abouts are a constant source of entertainment for them watching those from out of state try to figure out how to get on and off.

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"There's no substitute for local knowledge" nüvi 750, nüvi 3597

There are a few of them here

There are a few of them here in Chicago area. I was told one of them is called suicide circle. I avoid it like the plague it is. If you have one in your community, prepare for me to patronize businesses in other communities that don't have one.

why?

Because some people just can't get the hang of how a four-way stop works.

"You go." "No, YOU go."

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it's the dog's fault

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Garmin nuvi 2455 - nuvi 350, 260 (spares) - my other toys: Mac Mini, MacBook Pro, MacOS: Mojave 10.14 and introducing The Beast, a 2013 Dodge Charger Pursuit and his Garmin DriveSmart 5. The dog's name is Ginger

Like everything else

I have seen good ones and I have seen bad ones.

Safety first

Sounds like an ideal place for a traffic signal and a RLC.

You think round abouts are dangerous?

In the Las Vegas area the traffic engineers have implemented Left On Yellow Blinking Arrow. They are testing the concept in Phoenix also and it is causing great confusion among many drivers.

People are just stopping in the intersections thinking the traffic signal is broken.

I can only imagine the confusion if someone is confronted by a Left on Yellow Blinking Arrow before or after attempting to negotiate a round-about.

Blinking yellow arrows

Those yellow arrows are popping up all over. Strange that my Illinois, "Rules of the Road" does not mention the arrows or roundabouts. I have always thought that the sign, "Left turning traffic yield on solid green signal" was sufficient.

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1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

Left on red

The only place I've ever seen a left on red or left on blinking yellow is at the intersection of two one-way streets. It would seem to be a very dangerous idea to make a left turn across a lane of traffic. You'd have to watch like you were making a left turn at a two stop sign intersection.

Don't agree

jackj180 wrote:

I fail to understand why traffic admins are spending millions of dollars trying to re-inventing the intersection. These traffic circles are almost universally disliked by motorists. They obstruct the free-flow of traffic, cause confusion and do not contribute to safety. The only good thing I can think of to say about them is that it is almost impossible install red light cameras at one.

The new roundabout near me has definitely improved the flow of traffic at rush hour compared to 4-way stops (and 2-way stops wouldn't work there at all during rush hour). Now maybe you'd say that cars are going a different way to avoid the roundabout, and that's why traffic flows better--I really don't know, but one would have to go way out of the way to avoid this roundabout, so I doubt it.

We do have drivers that don't heed the Yield sign and barrel through, and others that treat it like red light and won't go when it's their turn... but it still helps move traffic overall. We also had the same issue with 4-way stop signs there.

Don's point about semitrailer truck drivers being unable to navigate the smaller roundabouts is a good point, though.

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JMoo On

Clarification

Felix Krull wrote:

Over the last five years or so, the Arizona Department of Transportation has added ten or eleven roundabouts to State Route 179 in the eight miles between Sedona and the Village of Oak Creek. SR 179 is the main road from the freeway if you are driving to Sedona from Phoenix. If you've ever driven that road in the past you have probably experienced some of the traffic congestion that develops there.

The raised circles in the center of the roundabouts are a very light-colored concrete. It is remarkable to see how many of those circles, several inches higher than the roadway, are covered with skid marks from vehicles that have just driven right over them.

I guess I need to correct or clarify my earlier observation. I've learned that at least some of the skid marks in the Sedona area roundabouts have been caused by emergency vehicles such as fire trucks that are too long to negotiate the circumferences of the roundabouts and are forced to proceed straight through. I'm glad that was brought to my attention.

Hmmm

Felix Krull wrote:
Felix Krull wrote:

Over the last five years or so, the Arizona Department of Transportation has added ten or eleven roundabouts to State Route 179 in the eight miles between Sedona and the Village of Oak Creek. SR 179 is the main road from the freeway if you are driving to Sedona from Phoenix. If you've ever driven that road in the past you have probably experienced some of the traffic congestion that develops there.

The raised circles in the center of the roundabouts are a very light-colored concrete. It is remarkable to see how many of those circles, several inches higher than the roadway, are covered with skid marks from vehicles that have just driven right over them.

I guess I need to correct or clarify my earlier observation. I've learned that at least some of the skid marks in the Sedona area roundabouts have been caused by emergency vehicles such as fire trucks that are too long to negotiate the circumferences of the roundabouts and are forced to proceed straight through. I'm glad that was brought to my attention.

Could it be that the traffic engineers who have decided that these traffic circles are a good idea don't really know what they're doing?

Sedona/Oak Creek

jackj180 wrote:
Felix Krull wrote:
Felix Krull wrote:

Over the last five years or so, the Arizona Department of Transportation has added ten or eleven roundabouts to State Route 179 in the eight miles between Sedona and the Village of Oak Creek. SR 179 is the main road from the freeway if you are driving to Sedona from Phoenix. If you've ever driven that road in the past you have probably experienced some of the traffic congestion that develops there.

The raised circles in the center of the roundabouts are a very light-colored concrete. It is remarkable to see how many of those circles, several inches higher than the roadway, are covered with skid marks from vehicles that have just driven right over them.

I guess I need to correct or clarify my earlier observation. I've learned that at least some of the skid marks in the Sedona area roundabouts have been caused by emergency vehicles such as fire trucks that are too long to negotiate the circumferences of the roundabouts and are forced to proceed straight through. I'm glad that was brought to my attention.

Could it be that the traffic engineers who have decided that these traffic circles are a good idea don't really know what they're doing?

I travel these roundabouts several times a year. They are a great improvement over the pre-roundabout highway that had stop lights. Folks seem to work with them quite well which is a bit of a surprise since so many are first timers vacationing in the Red Rocks

Round Abouts - Atlanta

Round Abouts are poping up all over Atlanta burbs now. Wonder what has started this trend.

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JG - Nuvi 2460

Anybody search 'modern roundabout'?

If you want to see the difference between a traffic circle, a rotary (UK roundabout) and a modern roundabout, search www.k-state.edu to see pictures.

The FHWA has a video about modern roundabouts that is mostly accurate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhHzly_6lWM ).
Modern roundabouts are the safest form of intersection in the world. Search www.iihs.org for FAQs and safety facts. The safety comes from the ‘slow and go’ operation instead of the ‘stop or go fast’ way a stop light works. The smaller size of the modern roundabout is what makes them safer and keeps speeds in the 20 mph range. This makes it much easier to avoid a crash or stop for pedestrians. It also means that if a crash happens the likelihood of injury is very low. Safety is the #1 reason there are over 2,400 modern roundabouts in the US today and many more on the way.
Slow and go also means less delay than a stop light or stop sign, especially the other 20 hours a day people aren’t driving to or from work. Average daily delay at a signal is around 12 seconds per car. At a modern roundabout average delay is less than five seconds. Signals take an hour of demand and restrict it to a half hour, at best only half the traffic gets to go at any one time. At a modern roundabout four drivers entering from four directions can all enter at the same time. Don’t try that with a signalized intersection.

@ScottRAB

Thanks.

Welcome to our forum Scott.

Nice first post. I will agree that a roundabout CAN be effective. So many of these are poorly designed. RE: My first post where a high speed T-Bone crash is just waiting to happen.
I have to agree that more roundabouts are coming. Like it or not. Less traffic lights mean less maintainence for the cities.

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1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

Also means less red light

Also means less red light cameras. wink

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"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Design concerns

I would agree that if someone can travel through a modern roundabout at 45 mph or get in a T-bone crash, it is designed incorrectly. I know some engineers think higher speeds are ok, but that is what sunk the rotaries in the NE - designing them to operate like freeway on-ramps.

Roundabout (Traffic Circle)

They are not New, maybe to you. I was Driving in Roundabouts (Traffic Circles) in Germany in the Early 60's. Yes, they do have the Potential to become a Hazard, IF you don't Understand how they work. You need to Find out just who has the Right-of-Way, the Person Entering the Traffic Circle (Germany) or the Car already inside.

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Don Duke aka Joe Casino

standardization

donz1943 wrote:

Yes, they do have the Potential to become a Hazard, IF you don't Understand how they work. You need to Find out just who has the Right-of-Way

...and that, from my understanding of what I've read about the modern "roundabout" (which is apparently not the same thing as a "traffic circle"), is crucial. Right-of-way on entry seems rather silly to me; I wonder why the Germans chose to do it that way.

Jam

VersatileGuy wrote:

Right-of-way on entry seems rather silly to me.

Sure does. What happens with heavy traffic? Traffic in the circle trying to yield to traffic entering, but the traffic trying to enter can't because the circle is full.

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-Quest, Nuvi 1390T

Agreed

ddeerrff wrote:
VersatileGuy wrote:

Right-of-way on entry seems rather silly to me.

Sure does. What happens with heavy traffic? Traffic in the circle trying to yield to traffic entering, but the traffic trying to enter can't because the circle is full.

I would expect to see a big increase in rear-end pile-ups within the roundabout circle with this method. Picture two cars in the circle between two entering segments with two cars exerting their right to enter each of those segments, and you can see it would be pretty easy to get four or more of those cars tangled up with each other. Bad Germans! Sit-TTT!

I suppose it all depends on what you're used to, though. But when the rest of the world visits Germany... uh oh...

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JMoo On

traffic circles

In Socal they're called traffic circles and a number of motorists still need to learn how to use them safely.

They are Straightforward

Roundabouts are straightforward if you take the time to learn how to drive on them and remember to signal your intentions (left signal - I'm going round, right signal - I'm leaving at the next exit. In North America anyway...)

They have some roundabouts called "Magic Roundabouts" in the UK, an example of which is in Swindon, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon)

Looks frightening to me.

However, as a UK ex-pat now living in Canada I have to say it would make life sooooo much easier if people over here just learned to drive on roundabouts. I've had a few close calls over here with traffic just barrelling through and at least once where I've been on the roundabout and a clearly terrified driver in front of me just stopped because they didn't know what to do.

Oh My

moomin wrote:

They have some roundabouts called "Magic Roundabouts" in the UK, an example of which is in Swindon, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon)

Looks frightening to me.

Excuse me while I go change my underwear.

They have traffic flowing in two directions around that circle.

Educating the motorists

Many posts have stated that people need to know how the roundabouts work. Here are two examples.
Wisconsin Rules of the road have a booklet

Quote:

1 slow down
2 yield to people walking and biking
3 Yield to traffic on your left already in roundabout
4 Enter the roundabout when there is a safe gap in traffic
5 Drive slowly
6 As you approach exit, turn on your right turn signal
7 Yield to people walking and biking as you exit.

Illinois rules of the road booklet for 2012

Quote:

Rotaries and roundabouts
A rotary or roundabout is an intersection of roads coming together from several directions and allows you to continue through without stopping at a stop sign or a traffic signal. Traffic travels counterclockwise. Always yield the right-of-way to vehicles and pedestrians (unless otherwise informed by signs or law enforcement). Use your turn signals in the same way as any other intersection.

Illinois needs new technical writers I think.

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1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

They make em small here

spokybob wrote:

Wisconsin Rules of the road have a booklet

Quote:

6 As you approach exit, turn on your right turn signal

That's a farce, there is no time. If you turn on the turn signal after passing on exit, trying to signal your intent to take the next, the turn signal is not going to have enough time for even one cycle.

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-Quest, Nuvi 1390T

In the planning stages

Here in Dubuque, they are in the planning stage for several intersections. I'm hoping they don't come up with the funding.

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TomTom built in and Garmin Nuvi 1490T. Eastern Iowa, formerly Southern California "You can check out any time you like...but you can never leave."

You're right

ddeerrff wrote:
spokybob wrote:

Wisconsin Rules of the road have a booklet

Quote:

6 As you approach exit, turn on your right turn signal

That's a farce, there is no time. If you turn on the turn signal after passing on exit, trying to signal your intent to take the next, the turn signal is not going to have enough time for even one cycle.

The ones in Mount Horeb are just redesigned intersections and there might be a car's length between exits. By the time you reached for the directional light lever you would be at your exit.

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Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.