Article: "Your Car Tracked: The Rapid Rise of License Plate Readers (LPR's)"

We have them here in New Zealand too, I have read that they would like readers in every squad car, haven't heard of them on poles as yet, but they will come, readers are only a problem if you have something to hide

Unlike red light camera's and speed camera's I have no objection to plate readers. These actually preform a useful function.

We have them too in Ontario, but as far as I know they only use them to scan plates driving up and down mall parking lots for now.

The police can use the info for solving crimes. About 15 years ago, a woman was found dead in her apartment near where I lived. Witnesses say she left the bar with a guy that no one had ever seen before.
The detectives kept a secret that they had found a finger print on an empty beer can. A few years later, a guy in Texas was arrested for drunk driving. His prints matched to the beer can. But that print alone would not make a case. The cops had to present evidence that he was in Spokane at the time of the murder. They got lucky. A truck that was registered to him had received a parking ticket that week end. An LPR would add to the evidence, just like the trooper in the story.

Years ago when I saw them on a CSI episode, I didn't realize they were real. Now they're on cop shows like they're nothing (Closer finale). Great technology, as they get faster, they may be like EZPass where they start eliminating FTE's on the force. Then there will be controversy. But as a technology, just like red light, speed cams, and stop sign cams, definitely a plus to law enforcement and society as a whole.

Coming back to the US from Canada I was grilled about my ownership of my car from the border agent. He said my license plate was not coming up in his data base. He claimed the plate reader could not identify my car. I have an unusual Pennsylvania plate for Persian Gulf Veterans. He seemed OK with that and sent me on my way. Maybe I am blind to LPRs. Too bad I have no criminal intentions.

yes there useful on a police car when pulling over somone on a violation and can allert the officer of some thing wrong, But on a pole or freeway or other public place, i wonder "big brother tracking your every move" there's two sides to every coin who else will have access to all this collect info about you!
every body says dont give out any persional info its dangerious but here we are again collecting info on each other

I can't see a problem with plate readers. It isn't like they are trying to find something to give a ticket for. I would think if my car was stolen and the plate added to a hot list, and it was found by one of these readers, I would be pretty happy about it.
Once in a while (not often) the powers to be do something to help us.
If it helps to catch someone who breaks into a house, it would be a good idea.

Going around Denver, on 470 in the toll section, they have these devices and just send the owner of the vehicle a bill for the toll. All the toll booths are CLOSED, you just get on the toll road and go where you need to go.

Texas. No attendent in some toll both. They just send you a bill by mail.

In Miami they did away with toll collectors more than a year ago, even some of the toll booth were taken down and all they have are the overhead SunPass or Tag readers.

If you use SunPass the toll is at a reduced price, if they read your tag it is full price + $2.50 a month fee for generating the mailed bill.

On RT589 (The Sun coast Pkwy) they do the same thing. A lot of the smaller exits, there are no toll colectors. They have two lanes, one is a "SunPass" lane and the other is "cash". If you don't have cash, they will send you the bill.

I'm all for it for big time criminals, but I am worried that they might start using the readers for giving out tickets for minor infractions.

In some places, they could take the place of speed cameras. If there's a known distance between cameras, and they know the time between photographs, they'll have your average speed.

According to SunPass records: http://usat.ly/KJOd26

According to SunPass records, Lopez had been clocked going over 100 MPH more than 114 times in the year prior to the stop, and was reportedly seen speeding even after the arrest.

On the show Parking Wars, they have them in their van as they troll the streets of Phili looking for cars to boot. As they drive and it finds a hit, the laptop beeps.

Our cops are using LPRs to identify stolen cars

It's your license plate that identifies you, not the reader. LPRs just make the identifying process faster and easier.

let me see! we have speed cameras,red light cameras ,cameras that look like a trash can or a mail box.cameras that control the traffic flow. cameras in the mall,cameras in the parking lot of the mall,on the roof of the mall etc....
In nyc and virginia beach everytime you look up you see a camera looking at you.I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT I'm tired of it.

I heard yesterday in Philly someone shot out 72 strands of aerial fiber, causing telecommunication outages (such as 800#'s, data networks, and dialing 215 area codes). Why not, every time you are tired of something in society, shoot it out like the RLC in Newark.

It seems to be very difficult to get along in society because there are so many malfeasants that don't want to follow the law.

About 5 years ago I recall one of the salesman for the company I worked for telling us his NY EZ Pass was suspended. I don't remember for how long though.
He was travelling upstate on the NY Thruway.

The reason it was suspended was speeding. They informed him he could not have reached the toll booths he passed without traveling at 90 MPH.

I don't know if it was a one time incident or they were watching him from prior trips. Knowing he has a lead foot I'm sure this wasn't the first time.

So Big Brother is watching in ways we hadn't thought of.

I'm sick of it too, but how many people gladly post their pictures on the internet with their web cams, digital cams, smartphone cams, etc., for all the world to see?

Big brother is now always watching. From our cell phones to ezpass to plate readers. the next step is chips in our arms.

They are not only watching. Very often they take very active role in keeping thing where they like them. Like in California, where "California cops employ mafia-style tactics against their critics", so nobody will do anything stupid.

http://reason.com/archives/2012/08/31/police-unions-cross-li...

I've never had any problems with these, but the more I read about it, the more uneasy I become. While they potential for catching bad guys is magnified, so is the potential for making mistakes, maybe more so.

Until several years ago, the West Virginia turnpike only had a toll booth on each end (and the exits). They gave you a piece of paper at the start, then took it back at the end and took your toll. If the time elapsed was too short, you got a ticket.

I have not used it for a long time. They too would give out a paper ticket at the entrance. If a motorist was traveling the entire length at a fast speed, just tell the attendant that the paper flew out the window and pay the entire toll.
I guess that would not work with cameras now.

I agree - being constantly monitored is getting way out of hand. It's creepy. It's expensive. It shows that in actuality, police and government consider citizens guilty until proven innocent.

So, to you, there's no such thing as an Illegal Search?

Can I walk into your house and look through all your drawers and closets? Will you post how much you make? Why not? It's only a problem if you have something to hide.

Look at it this way. You entered their domain when you took your vehicle off your property so they have every right to protect their property and if it includes photos or license plate readers so be it.

The problem with that is that it's not their domain. If it's public, it's everyone's domain.

Abe hoped that government "of the people, by the people, for the people" would not perish from the earth.

We sometime forget that government is what the citizens in a certain set of the "public" (and I think in the instant case Tiburon, CA) have approved.

There is always a danger of allowing a government the ability to track ALL it's citizens at will.
While I have nothing to hide, I do have the right (still) to go where I want to without constant surveillance. This makes that right mute.

I agree and might even change "ALL" to "ANY OF"

Outside of your house, what gives(gave) you that right?

In PA they actually have a regulation making it illegal to use your EZpass for speed related tickets.

From this website: http://www.paturnpike.com/rs_intranet/aet/v1/ezpass_myths.ht...

Good to know. I haven't run into this in any state I've been through with ezpass (been through everyone that accepts it actually). Sooner or later I'm sure I'll receive a ticket for this.

I received a survey in the mail from the state of Florida when they scanned my plate using some sort of roadside device. It seemed a little creepy that they knew where I was at the time and wanted to know why I was traveling on the highway.

Much more insidious is how they use speed cameras in the UK.

They've built a database of minimum times it takes to travel at the maximum legal speeds between each of the many, many cameras spread throughout the country (and their camera use makes the ones on this side of the pond look like they are dying breed, there are so many).

Beyond their usual local speed measuring and red light running duties they deliver a record of the date and time of each and every plate passing in their field of view.

The next time ANY of their cameras sees your plate they note the time differential between the previous record and the current and if it is below the minimum time threshold you will get a ticket, or two or ten.

No wonder they shoot and burn cameras in the UK.

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

You won't have to when the government mandates I put cameras in every room of my house. I'm not doing anything wrong so I have no reason to object to it, right? And if I get a ticket in the mail for not washing my hands after I go to the bathroom, then I deserve it.

I'm sure ShenanigansNZ is using a bit of common sense on this one, and is referring to what happens in PUBLIC rather than in PRIVATE. If you are in a public place, you do not have a "right" to privacy as you do in your own home.

Untrue. If you are in a public place there is still such a thing as an illegal search. And the basis of Roe v. Wade is an implied Right to Privacy in the U.S. Constitution.

Regardless of guilt you have an irrevocable right to remain silent.

I can't search you unless I have evidence of a crime because you are presumed innocent. And searching without evidence or consent, with the intent of discovering a POTENTIAL crime clearly violates "innocent unless proven guilty". It is wrong in oh so many ways.

Things like this are great at first, but given time the powers that be will find abusive use's for this power.

Just as speed cams and RLC's might stop speeders and runners, as time goes on they will be abused to gain revenue, adjusted to read false speeds, shortened times and such.

If you trust your Gov you are a fool, crooks and power fiends gravatate to Gov posititions. Look at our current Gov Problems, would ethical officials have let this go this far?

I think you are somewhat confused over how the Courts are and have ruled on privacy. Your vehicle does not have a "right to privacy." What takes place or is insider the vehicle can be subject to privacy protections, but not always. If you are doing something against the laws and can be plainly seen, then you can't claim your privacy was invaded as you put the behavior on display. Now, if you have an item inside your vehicle, and it is not clearly visible, then it is protected from search and seizure. But, if your car is observed on the street and the license plate is captured with a plate reader, then your privacy was not invaded or threatened as the vehicle has no rights.

It's pretty much the same issue with a toll tag. The fact you used a toll tag to pay a toll is public knowledge as the toll was collected by a public entity. The use of that information may be subject to privacy rules, but the fact the toll tag was read at a collection point isn't.

It goes to the fact you were observed.

I personally don't like it. While in some cases today they can perform a useful function, tomorrow is another day. The data could be (and eventually will be)used for less than good intentions.

How is a LPR any different than the On Star or variant depending on what make of car you drive? Even if you do not subscribe, they have a satellite connection to your car. On Star even said they would sell this info. So what??? I went to 1234 Main St. at 8 pm. last night, be my guest. Anyone dumb enough to buy that info sure is dumb.

Parking Wars gives a lot of good parking tips as well.

True, if something is in plain sight, it is not protected. And it can be argued that my license plate number is in plain sight.

But running a check on my license plate number is another thing entirely. It can be argued that running a license plate check is a search without reasonable cause. Different states have different laws as to whether or not there needs to be reasonable cause to run a license plate. Most States say that a policehuman can run a check on any plate in plain sight, but it's being debated as to whether or not automated computerized checks without human intervention are legal.

And I repeat, I speak of rights! A machine has none. A man must. My client has the right to face his accuser, and if you do not grant him that right, you have brought us down to the level of the machine! Indeed, you have elevated that machine above us! I ask that my motion be granted. And more than that, gentlemen - in the name of a humanity fading in the shadow of the machine - I demand it. I demand it!
- Samuel T. Cogley

Yes, it can be argued. But that is about it. Of course if it is proven that a cop used it to gain information for personal reasons, then that can lead to discipline, but it will never be prosecuted.
Bring on the readers.

When I lived in New Jersey, it was assumed by many that the New Jersey turnpike tolls (paper tickets with the time you entered and left the turnpike) were used to generate tickets for speeding. My approach to avoid these tickets was to use the restaurants at the turnpike rest areas for food rather than the cheaper ones off the turnpike. I figured that the time I spent eating would lower my average speed.

I guess I'd be getting a ticket in the UK for eating?

This is meant to be tongue-in-cheek, a joke, not serious, right?

First of all, who would live in NJ without EZPass? The system has been around since the early 80's, before many on this forum were even born.

Who was tasked with calculating the avg. velocity when you handed the paper ticket (assuming in the 70's) to the toll booth attendant? Most attendants have a hard enough time balancing their drawers at the end of a shift, let alone calculating someone's avg. velocity. What a paranoid society we live in. Especially given that most of are public activities are now dvr'd in HD and stored in the cloud.