2012.20 JCV file size confusion

My jcv file is 52.2MB on my Nuvi 765T - downloaded via the new automated process on a Mac for what it's worth.

i think we should get a petition signed and send to garmin.. this is non sense.. i spent 200 dollars on the unit and 80 dollars on lifetime update just to find they will screw 7x5 series users?? my unit has 1.4 GB space and if i delete some voice's i will have even more..

this is not the right way to get people buy newer models..

very pissed garmin customer....

I always pay the extra to get software on Disk. MS Office and Garmin 2012.1 maps were both only an additional $10 for the DVD vs download.

The Garmin 2012 DVD has 5 different JCV files of various sizes in a folder called 'Additions'.

D3060020A 358MB
D3080020A 135MB
D3153020A 45MB - the one installed on my 1490
D3191010A 238MB
D3192010A 97MB

What do you think the different files are for? Different map coverages? Does anyone have one of the mid-sized files on their nuvi? Has anyone had luck getting one to work from an SD card?

I suggest everyone who wants the full JCV call Garmin and demand the DVD.

I have the 49.8 meg file. A couple here have the 159 meg file, and the 3790's got the 447 meg file.

This is friggin' nuts.

BTW, Garmin never emailed me back on this. 27+ hours and counting.

so if i install my 37xx unit JCV file into 7x5 unit; it will work but will be a smaller image (difficult to see on the unit, kinda 1/3 in middle)..

i hope garmin better bring updated file for 7x5 units..

I am not familiar with how your 37xx and 7x5 models normally display JCV's , but here is my experience.

My 885T with a 4.3" screen, normally displayed JCV's across the entire screen.

My 2460LMT with a 5" screen would display the JCV's on the right side of a split screen, with a closeup of the map on the left side.

Copying the 2460 JCV file onto the 885, gave me JCV images that filled approximately 1/3 of the screen, with white bars on each side.

Although the 885 images are smaller than before, they are only slightly smaller than the 2460 images , and therefore still usable.

The DVD is version 2012.1

Thank you for contacting Garmin International. It will be my pleasure to assist you with this.

I am sorry to hear about the change in your junction view. Please be advised that Garmin is now using a combination of sources to get the junction view information. So, you may see changes in what areas do or do not have junction view. The following link provides further information.

https://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?caseId={fbf90030-8581-11e0-cbc1-000000000000}

Please let us know if you need any further assistance.

Please feel free to reply to this email, or call 1-800-800-1020,

if you require further assistance.

Our phones are open Monday - Thursday: 8 AM – 6:55 PM,

and Friday 8 AM - 5 PM Central Time.

Thank you for the opportunity to assist you with your Garmin device.

We appreciate your business!

With Best Regards,

Cassandra Gi.

Automotive Support Specialist

2nd Shift Automotive Team

Garmin International

913-397-8200

800-800-1020

913-440-8280 (fax) Att: Cassandra Gi., Associate #6392

www.garmin.com

Additional solutions may be found at http://www.garmin.com/garmin/cms/site/us/support/searchsuppo...

I just update my 755T with latest 2012.20 map update the JCV file in 2012.10 was 367MB after I update to 2012.20 it's only 51MB.why is less then befour. I still have a 1.40GB space available on my 755T. Please bring back full JCV file for download.it's very important for me.

Garmin answer:
I do apologize, we cannot provide you with any further junction view files. I included the explanation in the previous email. We are currently using a combination of sources so you are going to see changes to the junction view. So, we are not able to fill the remaining space on your unit because we do not have that available.

Please let us know if you need any further assistance.

Please feel free to reply to this email, or call 1-800-800-1020,

My email with Garmin about the junction view problems:
Me: I noticed after updating my maps from 2012.10 to 2012.20 that my Junction View file for my 765t went from 367 mb to 51 mb. I am aware of the fact that this was done because certain units could not handle the larger junction view file. My unit has plenty enough memory to handle the larger junction view file though. I had 1.4 GB left of internal memory after installing the map with the full coverage of NA. Once I noticed this, I tried re-installing only the lower 49 states on to the unit to see if I would get the larger junction view file, and I was still given the 51 MB version. Is there anyway I can receive the larger junction view file for the 2012.20 update?

Garmin's response: There isn't a way to receive larger Junction View files because they are being updated with your map update. The Junction View are not something you can update manually. As mapping updates are released Junction View information in both US and Canada will continue to grow.
If you need an additional assistance, please reply to this e-mail or call our product support.

Really? I had no idea the junction view file was updated with the map update......................................................................Garmin should try to make it less obvious that their technical support just copies and pastes generic answers to specific and detailed questions. After dealing with Garmin tech support for a month about my glitch with the 765t, this doesn't surprise me though. I had to email Garmin continuously about my glitch before I got a decent product support specialist that was willing to work with me and not just copy and paste an answer. So, I guess we are all just gonna have to suck it up and deal with Garmin giving us the finger. Good thing we have people here on this website that are willing to help as much as they can.

Garmin is saying they are now getting this information from multiple sources. Oh really?

If they are now changing providers for this, should we expect a change in map providers in the near future too?

One way to pocket a good chunk of cash. Change the map source and every lifetime subscription comes to an end.

Pure speculation on my part, but it has me wondering. I've got a price alert set up for another lifetime subscription for my backup unit, but maybe I'll have to hold off even if the price drops below my set point.

The population of Mudville feels the same way too.

I'm gonna use the old technique, if I can, but I am in no hurry. There is no compelling reason that I have to be first -- a thought for those who race.

Gary Hayman

I wrote back to Garmin after receiving the same canned reply last night regarding severly crippled JCVs in the 7x5 series ("multiple sources etc.") and now they say this:

"Thank you for contacting Garmin International.
I am happy to assist you. I apologize for you frustration but we do purchase our mapping from Navteq maps. We don't have control over what they
take out or put into the mapping. It is not our intention to have this information removed, and after speaking with several specialists Navteq is aware of this problem and will in the future be adding the area's that were removed back in."

So now it was NAVTEQ's fault - HAHA!!!!!

Break out the hip waders boys, this is gonna get messy!

Bob

You need to ask them why, if Navteq provides the data, Garmin chose to create three different JCV files for units based upon the nüvi's series. The answer should be interesting.

Garmin wants you to get a new GPS. One that is profitable for them. So they will continue crippling the JCV files until you do. Joe Average will buy a new one because they don't truly understand the technology they use. None of us here are Joe Average, so we'll just find a way to get the right file.

It's possible, I suppose, that Garmin could change map providers but who would they go to? Really the only alternative would be TeleAtlas which is fine but they are owned by Garmin's major competitor, TomTom. Doesn't should to likely that will happen.

Talk about pulling a response out of thin air. Navteq had nothing to do with giving certain units more junction views than others.

In retrospect I don't even think the CSR that wrote that response to me even realized that the topic is JCV content, not missing map content. Or, they went down this road to sidestep the JCV portion entirely.

At any rate, even in this very early going I doubt we'll see a return to the JCV content we were just getting used to.

If anyone want to see it, this was the email that prompted the answer from Garmin that it's now "NAVTEQ's fault":

My reply to Garmin, in response to the first answer about "different providers" received last night:

"I'm sorry Sir but I simply cannot accept that as a valid response. First, it's a paragraph cut and pasted from the Garmin web page totally unrelated to my question. Second, the 7x5 series has enough available memory to perform normally with the JCV content that was included with North America 2012.10. User forums were filled with positive comments of how the database had developed recently. Even if the JCV database remained static in size from 2012.10 to 2012.20 I don't think too many people would be disappointed. This 7x reduction in the amount of usable data is totally unacceptable, especially when 37xx users saw an increase in JCV data AND still have the data available to them that the 7x5 had in 2012.10.

I still say this was an unnecessary and ridiculous step backwards."

Bob

If my 765T is only going to be good for 2 years, then why would I buy another Garmin?

I wonder how many Garmin GPS's it would take to fill a municipal landfill? Maybe we should ask Garmin how long it takes a Garmin GPS to compost? I bet longer than the product life span.

This is the reply I received from Garmin:

"Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I will be happy to assist you with your inquiry. At this time the 152 MB JCV file that was downloaded to your Nuvi 3760LMT on the City Navigator North America 2012.20 map update is the largest compatible JCV file for your device. As we release more map updates for your device, you should see more and more junction view locations appearing on your map. We will not be able to provide you with a larger JCV file at this time.
(emphasis added)

I know there is a larger JCV file available and I have over 1.2 GB of free space to accommodate the file. If the 3760 can't use the same JCV file as the other 37xx series, at least have the decency to tell me why. But don't expect me or other 3760 owners to believe it is because of avaiable free space.

My feelings about Garmin's attitude toward this JCV issue? Somewhere between and .

That's t9.

The thought crossed my mind last night. One never knows.

Garmin's first excuse about having multiple sources being the problem is obvious nonsense. It doesn't matter if they are parsing data from 3 sources or 1000. The data still needs to be reformatted into a form the GPSr can use, so the number of sources for the data is irrelevant to the output in this case.

Anyway when I worked in the private sector I learned quickly the peon employees can't tell the customer what they know, only what they are told to say, so I can't blame them for a culture of copy & paste customer service growing in that environment.

Garmin is also full of s#!^, since that 446MB 37xx file works perfectly well in a 1xxx series unit, despite distortion brought about by stretching the image to fit the 1xxx screen. There's no reason that file shouldn't work in the 3760.

I removed the D3192020A.JCV (156,091 KB)from the Nuvi 2350LMT, installed D3191020A.JCV (457,055 KB), currently testing junction views and split screen is working correctly.

BUT it is not correct (as you stated) because the image is stretched. So therefore it is NOT correct.

TICK..TICK..TICK

My guess is that unless your CS rep made a copy and mailed the CD very quickly after talking to you on the 5th that he was told not to ship one to you or to anyone.

I don't hold the CS reps responsible for this. They're trying to help users based on the info they receive from higher up in the company. If only Garmin were to tell us "users can only receive the jcv file intended for their unit because it's what we've decided to do" we'd still be upset but at least it'd be an honest statement. Telling us that only the file we receive during the update process will work with our units and all other jcv files are incompatible is demonstrably false.

Here's my latest response from Garmin ... in which the rep says all JCV files "have the same number of junction views."

Yeah, right:

________________

Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I will be happy to help
you with this. First let me explain something to you. The reason why
your 1450 does not get the "full" JCV file is not because it is an older
device it is because the 1450 has less system memory capacity than some
of our other devices.

Since the JCV file needs to be stored on the system memory of the device you cannot put it on a micro SD card, because it will not work that way.

I would like to also correct something that you said in your email. The "lite" version of the JCV file does not have 1/10 the number of Junction
Views that the "full"version of the JCV file. Both of these JCV files has the same number of Junction View locations. The smaller JCV file has the same number of Junction View locations but it does not have the 3D imagery of the scenary (trees and buildings). The reason why we created the smaller JCV file was for our units that have smaller memory
capacity.
Flo T
Software Support Specialist
Software Team
Garmin International

________________

I am speechless that this Rep thinks there are the same number of junction views ... so obviously "out of the loop" ... so obviously "wrong, wrong, wrong!"

Read what I said again. I didn't say it was correct. I said it works perfectly well. There is a difference. Besides, that wasn't the point of my post. My point was to highlight the fact that Garmin is lying to its customers.

They didn't get anything correct. They don't have a clue.

Other than the blatant lie they just got caught in regarding the number of junction views, they lied regarding the above snippet of the email since there are units that can have the JCV file on MicroSD.

I hope in your next reply you remind them that the files have been tested by yours truly, using the same exact route on the same device, on a MicroSD card, and that there are differences in the number of junction views.

I tried to look at the JCV file with a hex editor, looking for a pattern... I thought there might be a way to find out how many views in the file. If there is a way to check, I could not find it.

Larry

With regard to Garmin stating that all of the jcv files contain the same number of junction views, might I suggest that someone pick a test route which contains four or five junction views and then all of the Garmin members can run that test route on their unit and post back how many junction views appeared. Then you will have definitive proof as to Garmin's claim.

So someone should pick a route and post the starting and ending coordinates for the route.

I called Garmin today about Lane Assists, I have lost many after upgrading to 2012.20, I was told that Navteq is no longer supplying Garmin with the data, that Garmin now supplies its own data and that it will improve over time.

Any solution yet to this jcv conundrum?

No solution, I asked if it would work if switching the jcv with the one from 2012.10 and I was told that it would not work

Here you go:

Start - 3501 Dufferin Ave, North York, Ontario, Canada

End - Pearson International Airport, Toronto.

Select the airport using Where To - Points of Interest - Transit - Air Transportation, after you have set the Nuvi in simulation mode and entered the Dufferin Ave address as your Current Location.

With the large 3790 JV file there are 5 junction views in this 10 minute trip.

With the 1490 2012.20 JV file there are 3 junction views in t923347's route.

EDIT:
4 JVs with 152MB file
5 JVs with 446MB file

Check the 2012.20 thread, page 4. I already ran that test, with coordinates given on my post in that thread. On the route I ran, the 51MB file had zero Junction Views, while the 150MB file had 11 and the 446MB file had 15.

zumo 660 with 4 GB and 49.8 MB JCV.

Though Strephon_Alkhalikoi already did a valid test. See his posts.

Using 2012.20 on my 1490LMT, D3178010A.JCV 49.8 MB (52,239,657 bytes) I ran a simulated drive traveling on I-95 South from north of Philadelphia to Wilmington, Delaware. Only 2 Junction views showed. I ran the same route using the 150mb JCV file and had 6 Junction views.

This is not intended to comment on Garmin's update policy, but over the year plus I've had my 765 I have rarely seen a JV. I forget the thing even has that capability. And when it has flashed up, but the time I realized it and took note it was gone. So, for me whether I get more or less isn't really an issue as far as navigation goes. Actually, the lane assist at the top left corner is the most useful to me.

I love and appreciate the JVs. I find them highly useful in the areas that I drive the most: Washington/Baltimore/No Virginia, Southern Florida, California.

They pop up frequently and give me excellent guidence.

Opined by Gary Hayman

I am continuing to harass Garmin about the three distinct JCV files ... and the vast difference of the number of junction views contained and displayed on the various units.

Problem is, I keep getting responses from different customer service reps ... ranging from those who are clueless to those who outright lie (one saying there were the SAME NUMBER in each of the files).

So, please, everyone, email and call Garmin and report the vast differences between the JCV files and the number of junction views displayed.

Send them the specific coordinates of the test in this thread and in the 2012.2 thread.

If enough of us complain, citing specific coordinates and tests we are performing here ... maybe, just maybe, Garmin will do something.

I've owned a number of Garmins ... my 1450LMT is less than a year old. And based on some new threads here, people are still able to buy this unit ... without knowing they are buying a crippled unit.

It's just not right.

So please, even if you are a 37XX users with the larger file, please contact Garmin about the problem. Someday you might find yourself on the short side of the stick.

I wonder how they will respond????
--------------

Garmin Specialist Flo T. Please do not lie to me about the number of junction views contained in the three distinct JCV files being installed on various units with lifetime maps.

I am active on various garmin gps boards ... people are reporting three distinct JCV files ... 51 mb, 151 mb and 446mb. On the 2012.2 lifetime update recently released, my 1450LMT unit received the smallest unit and LOST MOST OF THE junction views!

On one active forum, gps users are reporting the following number of junction views ... using specific route coordinates ... with the various sized JVC files:

Intersection of Rt. 81 and Rodman Street, Fall River, MA (Coordinates, -71.152273, 41.695415) to High Street, Moncton, NB (-64.793329, 46.095168)

51MB file - 0 Junction Views
152MB file - 11 Junction Views
446MB file - 15 Junction Views

My 1450LMT unit is less than a year old. You are force feeding me the smaller JCV file. If you can't offer me the larger file, I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

Your map and jcv files will run on an mini SD card ... in the x:\map subdirectory .... and YOU KNOW IT! Give us the ability to do this on ... or please give me my MONEY BACK.

And I will file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau ... because I bought my unit in good faith ... with the understanding that I would receive lifetime updates of maps, junction views and lane assists ... Instead you are giving me and other 1XXX series users a crippled, limited small version.

Tests from just south of Fort Worth, TX to Bangor, Me. Using a 1490.

D3178010A.JCV 49MB
18 views
18 views avoiding Toll Roads

D3192020A.JCV 152MB
43 views
44 views avoiding Toll Roads

Apparently, the only solution to this jcv file issue is to replace your smaller size jcv file with D3191020A.JCV (Don't ask me where to find it)

I don't understand why Garmin can't provide a meaningful solution to this. In my opinion all they have to do is create customized jcv files for different map selections. There are only a handful map selections (Canada & boarder states, lower states etc.)Instead they force the same jcv file that doesn't include all junction views in the selected map area.

They'll ignore you. You are probably going to get nowhere with the lackeys in support, therefore I believe it is time to bring out the big guns and put the issue before someone who will be more inclined to listen.

It's time for an EECB. If you don't know what an EECB is, an EECB is a Consumerist.com acronym for "Executive Email Carpet Bomb". In simpler language, it's shooting an email to the corporate leadership, expressing in a calm, collected manner what the problem is and how you wanted it corrected. In addition, include summaries of the correspondence with support, especially the tests we have done here at POI Factory.

Everyone currently writing emails to support regarding Junction Views should instead be sending the emails to the following addresses using the CC function in the mail client.

min.kao@garmin.com
clifton.pemble@garmin.com
matthew.munn@garmin.com
brian.pokorny@garmin.com

The first two addresses are the CEO and COO. The last two are to a pair of VPs: automotive and operations. I cannot guarantee that any of the email addresses except for the one Min Kao uses work, but by addressing your email to the head honcho, you are more likely to get responses.

For an example writing campaign to Garmin, take a look here: http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=202242

If we all flood these guys with emails about the problem and what we've been told by their customer support staff about that problem, we may actually get what we want eventually. Of course, they could just ignore us all or tell us that they'll fix it in the future and then never actually do anything about it, but looking at that other campaign you posted about, it looks like it's at least worth a try.

I would also suggest that anyone intending to write to Garmin corporate should also address the issue of first level support giving different answers to different users who have posed the same question. Make it clear that:

Garmin must acknowledge that information exchange between users is virtually instant, and that although not the fault of their first level support people, it takes mere seconds for the user community to realize that responses from Garmin are inaccurate, inconsistent and in many cases irrelevant to the concern that was raised. Garmin's customers are smart people and they need to recognize that at all levels of the company.

Feel free to copy and paste this text to your emails if you deem it suitable.

Bob

Thanks Strephon for the email addresses. I have sent mine letting them know about my complains with the JCV files.

I-55 southbound from Illinois through downtown St. Louis to Kirkwood via I-44. No junction views with the small JCV.