Why the smartphone is the new killer GPS

iPad has an air-chart app that's FAA approved in commercial planes... it's coming. Sooner than some think.

The government is spending billions of dollars to upgrade from WWII technology to a GPS-based flight controller system. One result of the upgrades is to see iPads and other tablet PCs become standard operating equipment on flights.

On a side note the government is taking a long, hard look at that satellite carrier wanting to set up towers for its network because of the potential effect signal leakage will have on the new system.

I'm not surprised. Malware writers go for the most popular OS (iOS and Android) to attack. Symbian is a dying OS if it's not completely dead already.

It was dead prior to Psion selling it to Nokia.

I would never rely on my iPhone as a GPS. Turning on location services eats the battery up like mad, and half the time it won't connect with a network and then you've got nothing. Try using Google Maps when you're in the Arizona desert. Blank screens.

Try using your Nuvi without turning it on. Blank screens.

If you're gonna make silly comments about smartphones I figure I'd make a silly comment about a Nuvi.

Of course if you're using cloud based apps you won't be able to use them if you lose network coverage. That's why there are many gps apps which actually store the maps on your phone.

But of course some folks aren't smart enough to figure that out.

My, how friendly and helpful that is.

It's amusing watching all the banter back and forth.

Really some people have no clue, or have an agenda against smartphones or are too afraid to give up their old GPS units.

I have no agenda, as owners of multiple Garmin and TomTom GPS units, other than to share my experiences with fellow smartphone owners in the smartphone forums area.

It's amazing how worked some people get and try rabidly to defend against smartphones.

By the way, one of the killer features of my smartphone GPS? Voice searching. I just have to click one button, say "costco in san diego" and it finds all the costcos in San Diego. I then click on the costco I want, bam get directions.

With my Tom Tom or Garmin, it's a super tedious process to click state, city, adress #, address, just to get navigation.

Ease of use features like this is why smartphones are vastly superior to many.

If they build a hybrid GPS that can be connected to the cloud for things like this, it may be a good counter to the smartphones, but even then it would be expensive to own a dedicated device that can't really do much else.

Yeah, right. Evidenced by:

Use whatever gets the job done for you... brag it up if you want to - but to say you have no agenda, call people afraid, clueless and agenda driven is really laughable when you spent the rest of the post driving your agenda that "smartphones are vastly superior"... maybe for you. I'm content to be a clueless 'fraidy-cat. I'll use my Nuvi until a better app comes out for my iPad.

Since we're into promoting agendas now, my agenda is pretty simple: inform people that convergence technology isn't necessarily a better option than a unit dedicated to one task. Both convergence tech and dedicated devices have their place, and I believe the convergence tech is suitable as a backup device, but not as a replacement.

That said, smartphone GPS apps have made great strides since 2008, when Garmin released their last version of Garmin Mobile XT that wasn't tied down to a smartphone. Android, with its built-in Google Navigation, is insanely fast compared to the Nuvi units. This is because Google uses vector graphics rather than the raster graphics prevalent in virtually all dedicated GPS solutions. Google Nav animation is smoother and more fluid in redraws than Garmin. The search options for Google Nav make it far easier to use than the Garmin approach of State>City>Address>Go. Voice search is just as convenient.

My biggest issue with Google Nav is that it relies on the cloud to do its work. Lose the data connection and lose the maps. Google does attempt to mitigate this problem by caching map tiles along the route of travel, but if you leave the route and can't find a tower, you're stuck. I believe Google should offer map downloads just like Garmin does, but utilizing vector graphics instead of raster. A map consisting of vector graphics is generally smaller than the same map consisting of raster graphics. The space taken up on a phone's add-on memory card, while significant compared to the average file, could be far less than on a Garmin.

Some things can remain in the cloud. POIs for example. Since they are woefully out of date on the newest Garmin map, they can stay in the cloud and be instantly updated when the need arises.

I think until Google starts offering maps for download, they will have the stigma of being a backup to a dedicated unit, despite their obvious advantages over a dedicated unit.

Um, you do know that there are navigation apps that can download map data right?

Not only that, but Google Maps does cache data so should you lose data for a short while, the cached data will still work for navigation.

You really seem to have no clue about this, and your strong bias against anything is really showing.

You have been against smartphones without ANY valid reasons. Very sad.

This is a smartphone sub-forum. If you hate smartphones so much, why are you in this sub-forum crusading against them???

If you plan on using you phone for a gps you better have more than one battery or plug it in all the time.

Strephon is talking about Google Nav. I'm sure he knows there are other nav apps available.

Looks like you didn't read his post thoroughly. Read it again. He said "Google does attempt to mitigate this problem by caching map tiles along the route of travel, but if you leave the route and can't find a tower, you're stuck."

I think Strephon knows what he's talking about.

Does that mean everyone in Garmin sub forum must praise Garmin? I've seen many complaints in Garmin sub forum. Should they all be deleted because the offended Garmin hardcore users? Are we not allowed to voice out our opinion?

Crusading against?? What orifice did you pull that out of?

I'm simply saying use what works for you. I have, and use nav apps on an iPhone, and, an iPad. But I prefer my Nuvi. And I will until the apps get better. Like was mentioned above that you totally failed to read, or comprehend: it's better when maps are on the device than in the cloud, for the obvious reason - lose the cloud, lose the maps. That is an inescapable fact.

You want to talk crusading? Let's look at you - who immediately resorts to arrogance and condescension when someone does not agree with your chosen way....

I'll say it again: use what works for you. There are times when my iPhone and/or iPad will be the device of choice, but I'll still make use of my Nuvi when it's the right tool for the job that needs to be done. Sorry if that offends you. I'll use the best tool for the job at hand.

How would that be different from a stand-alone GPS?

No, you lose the cloud, you DON'T lose the maps. There are apps for that. Get it? What other arguments do you have? You are crusading against smartphones, really come on now.

the complaints should come from those who actually use the smartphones, not people who have no idea what they're talking about.

I complain about TomTom sometimes, but only because I am an actual user, not blabbing against it because I fear TomTom or some new fangled technology.

Apparently, reading comprehension is not a strong suit for you.

Read what I wrote above again.

Please.

Apps that DO NOT put full map sets on the device require the cloud. Lose the cloud and run out of cached maps - and your screwed.

I get that.. Do you?

This is precisely why my iPhone & iPad app of choice Navigon - it puts full maps on the device.

See? I know there are apps for that.

So what do you have against smartphones?

Reading must not be your suit at all. Because your rants just seem to make no sense.

As an owner of an iPhone I've already stated that the navigation on it is not as good as Google maps or the Android navigation apps. Stick to your Nuvi as it is superior to your iPhone, in your case.

I have nothing against smart phones. Zip. Nada. If I had something against smartphones, would I own an iPhone?????? Or Blackberry before that? I don't think so.

The only rants I see here are from you, directed at anyone who dares to not follow your belief that your way is the be all, end all for navigation solutions.

I'll say it one more time, maybe you'll get it: use what works for you. There are times when my iPhone and/or iPad will be the device of choice, but I'll still make use of my Nuvi when it's the right tool for the job that needs to be done. Sorry if that offends you. I'll use the best tool for the job at hand.

FYI the free Mapquest app works pretty well on the iphone and has turn-by-turn directions and voice guidance.

I think you're missing the point of the thread. It's about what the wave of the future is, for folks with smartphones, especially android devices.

I'm pointing out why android navigation is superior, to my 2 Garmin devices and my 2 TomTom devices.

Argue as you will, that is a fact.

Garmin and TomTom better get their act together and put out a better product, or they are dead in the water. Why are you so offended by this fact?

Of course people should use what works best for them, that is a fact.

I have a friend who absolutely refuses to own a GPS. He has a paper map, and gets turn-by-turn directions from google maps, prints them out, and uses that for directions. You will never convince him that a GPS unit has any value at all.

He and I will have heated discussions about why GPS units are useless, and only lazy people use them, a waste of money, etc.

I hear the same tired arguments about smartphones here as well. It's really lame.

That app does not meet my needs. I don't want "works pretty well".

You're pointing out what works for you, and ridiculing anyone who doesn't follow by calling them "afraid" and condescendingly throwing out how your way is "vastly superior"...

No, that's opinion. Your opinion. And there you go with the condescending "superior" thing again. It's superior for you, and how you use it.

It's not superior to me in the least. I like the tools I have at my disposal. They work for me. They do the job I want them to do.

Again, opinion. Yours. And one when it comes to smartphone apps, I actually agree with. The TomTom app on the iPhone or iPad is like Windows 3.1. Telenav is slightly better. Navigon is ok on the iPhone - but great on the iPad.

That's exactly the point. You're trying too hard to convince everyone to accept your view about what you think is best. How about accepting the fact that he likes paper maps better? Perhaps GPS had great value to you but not everyone would agree.

Heated discussion? With you? Naaah... that's unpossible. LOL
Cheers everyone! Have a great weekend.

We have two phones and Microsoft Exchange push email, unlimited data.

I realize you had two phones, but the data part was unclear. I do have Exchange push myself, and works well.

I guess the part I was shocked over was the 1500 minutes, and no mention of LD for $70 per device. Normally, the US gets cell service way cheaper than we do.

smartphones will cause gps to become obsolete. But IF that day comes I hope Garmin still supports my lifetime maps. I will never pay the additional costs to have a smartphone. Right now I have unlimited calling while at my home address, 450 anytime/anywhere else, unlimited data and 500 text for $57, that's including the tax.

I have an unlocked Dell Streak. Dell includes a trial version of Copilot Live 8, with the option to buy after the trial is up. That said, I try to provide a balanced point of view in this discussion because each has their pros and cons. But I do admit to being biased, in that I don't believe that at this time smartphones should be the primary GPS receiver in a car.

Chewbacca read my post, but it's clear you didn't.

Unlimited data
Unlimited calls to any cell phone in the USA
Unlimited text messaging
Unlimited roaming in the USA
All call between 7 PM and & 7 AM not counted in the 1500. 7 PM Friday to 7 AM Monday not charged.
If I am on wifi calls are looked at as data usage.
I would have to work hard to get to the 1500 minutes

Just to touch on this, because I really feel it needs mentioning. Maybe it's simply me, but I have two pet peeves on message boards, and I have seen both of them in this thread. In the past, though likely not on this forum, I have done both, so I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I just do my best to avoid these peeves because I find both revolting, to different degrees.

The first and biggest pet peeve is one poster attempting to force other posters to change their opinions to suit the first poster. As pointed out on this thread, we have one poster presenting his opinions as facts, and actively attacking posters who disagree with his opinion. Both to me are signs of someone who is very insecure when it comes to expressing their viewpoint, resorting to bullying tactics in order to ensure their opinions are seen as credible. What's sad is that it isn't necessary at all to do that, because it's simply an opinion. Opinions are neither right nor wrong. They simply are. Declaring an opinion as fact doesn't make it so.

The second pet peeve is dissecting posts. In addition to the very real possibility that this violates some sort of netiquette rule, I believe that dissecting posts to make points only serves to weaken those points. Not only that, but dissecting posts leads to statements being taken out of context, which can create needless bickering over who said what and what was meant by what was said. If you're going to quote an entire post in a thread, don't break it apart into snippets with replies underneath. Not only does it make you look foolish, it makes the post difficult to read.

Sorry for ranting, but crap like what I've seen on this thread needs to be eradicated.

So, if you use the GPS App and drive for 6 hours you use 360 minutes? After a day or 2 of that aren't your minutes gone?

agreed

@donaldb: Data plans are measured in the number of MB or GB offered and are independent of talk time. I haven't checked to see how much data is pulled by typical Google Nav used in and hour, but I suspect it isn't all that much. The main issue is that if the phone loses connection with the towers Google Nav can't function properly.

There are offline apps like Copilot that function like a typical GPS receiver from Garmin and other companies, but the maps they use make them a bit slower than Google Nav. Using an offline app eliminates the Google Nav problem, but each of the offline apps have their own issues. The real question to be asked is what tradeoffs are you willing to make to get a GPS solution that works for you.

Can you download the enforcement camera files from this site to your smartphone?

(Dumb question, I know, but I don't have a smartphone.)

"The only stupid question is the one that isn't asked."

Supposedly there is a way to get the camera POIs onto Google Navigation, but last time I checked, proximity alerts weren't working on Google Nav. Copilot can handle the camera POIs, and there is a thread in this forum that covers the process. I haven't checked other navigation apps to determine what they can and cannot do.

Still love my GPS, but have used my Android phone a few times when I was in someone else's car and I didn't have my GPS.

I run my android smartphone barefoot (no data plan, prepaid $100 per year). CoPilot nav works fine with no mobile data.

On those days where I have bought a data daypass I have used Google Nav and it's a bit slicker and more integrated into the rest of my Googly life but CoPilot is my go-to road nav. My Garmin car gps lives in the trunk now.

[dupe, durr, just getting used to this forum again]

I've been eagerly following this thread and had to weigh in. I just took my first drive today using the free Google Navigation on Droid

I'm a nuvi developer so I'm definitely a Garmin guy. For most people, even the free Google navigation on SmartPhone's works just fine. So why do I say, Yes & No?

I love the cost argument taking place here. If you already need the functionality of a full data plan and would buy it whether the GPS was there or not, then GPS is absolutly free. On the other hand, if you're buying the data plan for the GPS function, then it's god awful expensive! Some people just can't afford it. Heck, there are still 4% of the US population without cell phones at all.

How about functionality then. Well, most people want to get to an address or find gas or a restaurant close to them and the phone sure works for that. If that's all you need, why have a separate GPS? Granted the interface isn't as user friendly but it'll do for most and ultimately, the designers of SmartPhone GPS are just going to make the GUI's better. Everyone learns from everyone else. Garmin, TomTom and Magellen are learning from the SmartPhone developers too.

How about losing navigation when taking calls. My opinion is that if you don't know how to get where you are going and need to concentrate on a GPS to get you there, then you shouldn't be distracting yourself with taking calls whether you're using a cell phone or Garmin to navigate. If you can drive, pay attention to the GPS and take a call, why not paint your toenails as well?

I think the real answer is that cell phones will reduce the use of PND's like Garmin but there will always be a place for them with a much more limited share of the market. Guess what - people still use paper maps too!

It's obvious you've been mulling this over; thanks for taking the time to write it out.

I'd say the other major win on smartphone is the ability and willingness to update. There are braindead UI/functionality issues on my various Garmin devices that would be fixed in an app, and even in a free app. But they will live forever in the firmware of my hard GPSr devices.

The place where GPSr kicks my smartphone's rear is battery life.

To augment your discussion of cost: I think this is another example of the average customer wanting "good enough" and convenience when the manufacturers want to upsell fancy "bells and whistles". It's the same reason the masses are happy with .mp3 audio quality instead of CDs and divx-encoded movies instead of blu-ray.

if the GPSr can beat your smartphone in battery life you have a really ancient smartphone with LCD display. my nokia n8 with AMOLED screen can do 10 hours of navigation with voice and bluetooth and wifi all going full blast. with a car charger it can go indefinitely. in contrast my nuvi could do a max of 4-6 hours tops.

From the choir: "amen".

My work has a 22% discount with the big guys (4G LTE). I have the Droid X, no need for the thunderbolt as 3G works just fine. I used to bring my Nuvi with me on co. business, but why, there's no longer any need. The real time is a bit unusual at first, nuvi says 4 mi and 6 min. to destination, Droid says 4 mi. and 23 min. It knows about traffic.

Not every new smartphone has an AMOLED display. Don't get me wrong. AMOLED is a godsend in terms of battery life, and all phones should have it. But not every manufacturer puts it in their phones. Further, you have one other issue that you don't touch on. Some smartphones are so power-hungry, even WITH AMOLED that the car charger can't keep up.

BUT, power issues are not the issue at hand. The issue is whether a smartphone can at this time replace a dedicated GPSr as the primary navigation device in a car. At this time I would say no, but I do believe that in time it will happen and I believe Google will do it. It will happen when they combine their online search algorithm with offline maps.

I have a modern, still-supported (ouch!), rootable Android smartphone. It does have an LCD screen, which means I will not get the added battery life in the tradeoff for higher cost, burn-in, and reduced display life. Horses for courses.

My GPS 60cx in battery saver mode runs about ~20hrs on alkaline batts and ~12hrs on NiMH. There are folks who report longer runtimes but that's what I get.

Traveling from North Texas to Colorado through the Texas panhandle and NE corner of NM, I was glad I was not relying on my Android...because for several hours, I only had intermittent coverage. Even then, it was barely functional for sending text messages and definitely insufficient for navigating.

So, I am not ready to toss my GO930.

kch50428
Your waiting for a good navigation app for your Ipad?
my 10.0" android pad has 4 different Gps apps. three that I have added through the usb port.
http://www.ecrater.com/p/9786496/102-epad-android-21-1ghz-2g...

Your not still trying to buy beta max tapes for a beta cam are you? that's what apple is doing by following the way of sony with it's closed architecture.

Nope. Not any more. Navigon update the app. It's sufficient.

Twaddle.

Don't recall seeing the navigator on the "Oasis of the Seas" pulling out his smart phone to get to Cozumel either...