Disastrous GPS Jamming

 

Data Shows Disastrous GPS Jamming

Representatives of the GPS industry presented to members of the Federal Communications Commission clear, strong laboratory evidence of interference with the GPS signal by a proposed new broadcaster on January 19 of this year. The teleconference and subsequent written results of the testing apparently did not dissuade FCC International Bureau Chief Mindel De La Torre from authorizing Lightsquared to proceed with ancillary terrestrial component operations, installing up to 40,000 high-power transmitters close to the GPS frequency, across the United States. More at:

http://tinyurl.com/4u8zfn6

See also

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they still want the same frequencies

Quote:

The higher band that it originally had planned to use in its launch will be set aside for testing and developing mitigation plans over the next few years, the company said.

Their new plan shifts their initial frequencies away from the GPS signals, but they still want to use the same part of the spectrum after tweaking things for a year or two. They may lose the battle but yet win the war.

It Looks Good for LS

-Nomad- wrote:
Quote:

The higher band that it originally had planned to use in its launch will be set aside for testing and developing mitigation plans over the next few years, the company said.

Their new plan shifts their initial frequencies away from the GPS signals, but they still want to use the same part of the spectrum after tweaking things for a year or two. They may lose the battle but yet win the war.

It appears as I have suspected that LS is going to make whatever compromises are needed to get themselves online. Then they will crank up the power, spread out across their spectrum and by then it will be too late. I would not be surprised if the approval documents are already signed and just waiting for LS to give the FCC any excuse to grant approval. It looks like July 1st is the new drop-dead date.

It is interesting to read the preliminary reports on how much interference there is and know that it will be all disregarded in the end.

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Lightsquared changes plans

Sounds like the tests did not go well.

Public, commercial and Military not happy with test results. Looks like Lightsquared is backing down.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/06/20/lightsquared-has-p...

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No news

Is No News Good News about LS? Haven't heard anything in the past week.

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try here

RAMTROL wrote:

Is No News Good News about LS? Haven't heard anything in the past week.

http://saveourgps.org/related-articles.aspx

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Re: Try Here

Great website with a lot of information,it will keep us informed of what is going on with this lightsquared mess,thanks

Thanks

for the insight. Yes it's very informative.

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LightSquared Fights Back: GPS Firms Should Pay $$$

The FCC Working Group Report is due out this Friday. If you've been following the early reports, don't expect any surprises in the report...
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"LightSquared says the GPS industry should pay to shield its devices from interference its proposed network of wireless internet transmitters might cause. On Thursday, the company launched a counteroffensive in the increasingly acrimonious battle over the bandwidth it hopes to use for the nationwide wireless network of 40,000 towers. The GPS industry says tests prove the broadband network will disrupt GPS signals and is urging authorities to reject LightSquared's proposal. LightSquared released an economic impact study (PDF) done by the Brattle Group last week suggesting the GPS industry has been and continues to be heavily subsidized in that the timing signals used in their devices are owned, operated and maintained by the federal government through the Department of Defense.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/GPS_Pay_Interference_Li...

WTF?

Cough *BS* cough.

You're the new entrant. Pony up, and fix your system, goddamit!

This proves gun control is not needed!

telecomdigest2 wrote:

...the GPS industry has been and continues to be heavily subsidized in that the timing signals used in their devices are owned, operated and maintained by the federal government through the Department of Defense.

So...that means it's been there longer. And, has a few more major players, and, and and...

Your lack of planning is not the world's emergency.

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Save Our GPS Member Update

Member Update – June 28, 2011

As you know, LightSquared requested – and received – a last minute extension from the FCC to file a Technical Working Group (TWG) report on interference caused by its planned network. Then, unilaterally – before either completion or submission of the report and without input from the TWG – LightSquared announced its so-called “solution” to GPS interference. As you have probably seen by now, the Coalition issued a rebuttal, explaining in detail why LightSquared’s proposal is a nonstarter.

The TWG report is now due July 1, 2011, but could be filed any day now.

Once the TWG report is filed, a public comment period will begin. We will be sure to let you know when that begins.

In the meantime, we thought you might be interested in several recent developments, outlined below.

Thank you.

Recent Developments

On June 9, 2011 The National Space-Based PNT Advisory Board held a meeting to discuss results of two separate tests of LightSquared’s impact on the GPS signal. The results were devastating. In 46 tests “all the GPS receivers” were affected by LightSquared’s signals, according to Federal Aviation Administration official Deane Bunce. Trimble’s Jim Kirkland represented the Coalition at the meeting. Peter Marquez, vice president at Orbital Sciences Corp said “Time travel is more likely ... than mitigating this issue.”

On June 22, 2011 an economic study by Dr. Nam D. Pham of the Washington, D.C.-based NDP Consulting Group found that more than 3.3 million U.S. jobs in agriculture and industries rely heavily on GPS technology and the disruption of interference with GPS posed by LightSquared’s planned deployment of 40,000 ground stations threatens direct economic costs of up to $96 billion to U.S. commercial GPS users and manufacturers. The Coalition issued a press release quoting three members:

• Ken Golden, director of global public relations at John Deere: “The use of GPS technology is vital to thousands of people who make their living with agricultural and construction equipment. It is simply not acceptable to allow this new network to interfere with these important industries when all indications are that there is no practical solution to mitigate this interference. In agriculture, the loss of a stable GPS system could have an impact of anywhere from $14 to $30 billion each year. That could significantly erode the strong competitive global position of U.S. farmers in the world agricultural economy. Serious impacts to the productivity of those in the construction business also will be apparent.”

• Siamak Mirhakimi, general manager, Caterpillar Electronics & Systems Integration: “High precision GPS continues to be widely adopted technology in heavy construction and civil engineering due to the benefits of increased productivity, improved job site safety, faster completion times for projects and reduced fuel and rework costs. The test results clearly show substantial interference to high precision GPS which in turn will impact our products and customers. Allowing any company to cause interference to the GPS band would be a major step backward and significantly impact this domestic industry, which has invested billions of dollars in GPS enabled products and which employs over a million people in the U.S.”

• Jim Kirkland, vice president and general counsel of Trimble: “This analysis highlights the massive economic benefits of GPS technology to the U.S. economy and adds a critical perspective to the current debate over LightSquared’s plans. This study also highlights how LightSquared’s recently announced ‘solution’ to the interference problem, which LightSquared admits will not reduce interference for high precision GPS uses, is no solution at all. High precision GPS uses represent nearly $ 10 billion in historical investment by GPS users over the last five years and $30 billion in annual economic benefits.

On June 23, 2011 at a hearing for the House Transportation and Infrastructure Subcommittee on Aviation and the Subcommittee on the Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation, representatives of three members of the Coalition to Save Our GPS called on Congress to put a stop to deployment of LightSquared’s planned broadband network in spectrum that threatens to disrupt GPS signals. Top officials from the Departments of Defense and Transportation also expressed strong concerns. A Coalition press release on the hearing is available here.

Also on June 23, 2011, the House Appropriations Committee approved the Financial Services and General Government Appropriations bill for fiscal year 2012, which includes an amendment introduced by U.S. Rep. Steve Austria (R-Ohio) that prohibits funding for the FCC to remove conditions on or permit certain commercial broadband operations until the FCC has resolved concerns of harmful interference by these operations on GPS devices. The amendment was adopted on a voice vote. Rep. Austria and the Coalition both issued press releases.

On June 23, 2011 the Transportation Construction Coalition (TCC), representing 29 national construction industry groups, sent a letter to Department of Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood requesting his “active engagement to block the Federal Communication Commission from considering this unusual waiver.”

Contact:
Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP Prism Public Affairs
Paul Scolese: 202-887-4319 Dale Leibach: 202-207-3630
Arshi Siddiqui: 202-887-4075 Anne Tyrrell: 202-207-3632
www.SaveOurGPS.org
###

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Coalition to Save Our GPS Clips

Coalition to Save Our GPS Clips
June 30, 2011

LightSquared issued a press release this morning announcing that it had presented its “modified spectrum plan” proposing a “comprehensive solution to the GPS interference issue” to the FCC along with GPS test results that, according to the LightSquared release, “show unequivocally that the interference is caused by the GPS device manufacturer’s decision over the last eight years to design products that depend on using spectrum assigned to other FCC licensees.”

AND

In the second round of stories, Bloomberg updated its story to explain that in “seeking to quell criticism,” LightSquared told regulators today that it would resolve GPS interference issues for more than 99 percent of GPS users. The article added that the Company said it “must begin to deploy its network immediately or it may not survive.” The article also included response from the FCC and Coalition to Save Our GPS:

• “The agency’s expert staff will now conduct a thorough and expeditious review of the report,” Neil Grace, a spokesman for the agency, said…The agency will open a comment period on the working group’s report that ends August 15, Grace said….“Nevertheless, our nation cannot afford to let spectrum go underutilized,”…“America’s economic growth and global competitiveness are on the line.”
• Of LightSquared’s claims that 99% of users will be free of interference under its revised plan, Trimble’s Jim Kirkland said: “We don’t think that’s anywhere near accurate”….”Even the data on that lower band shows significant interference.”
• Kirkland added that today’s report shows “consistent and overwhelming evidence that LightSquared’s proposed operations would cause massive interference to every type of GPS device,”…“There is no current, existing technology that solves this interference.”

And finally,

A Kansas City Star story included reaction from Garmin:

• “Before the Working Group’s testing began, LightSquared insisted that its transmission would not affect the GPS signal. Garmin’s own test results indicated otherwise. LightSquared then suggested that it had a filter on its transmitters that would solve any possible jamming issues. The Technical Working Group’s test results indicate that this filter will do little if anything to end LightSquared’s interference. In fact, there is no evidence that any effective filter solution currently exists for LightSquared transmitters or GPS receivers, and even if an effective one could be developed, it is years away from implementation.”

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LS needs to take it back a notch

The folks that NEED this new technology need to realize that what they already have is pretty darn good. They need to get a grip...

Louis CK put's it the best...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk&feature=related

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FCC report now available--

The FCC report is now available online:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-1133...

That's the summary. The full report is over 1000 pages and is split over 7 files.

Lightsqyared proposes not to use the upper 10 MHz of the l band for a while, and reduce power.

But internationally, Lightsquared is pressing hard to get the international standards organizations to pin the blame on the GPS manufacturers.

Of course this effort ignores companies such as Deere which use a legitimate L-band satellite signal for augmenting their precision GPS systems to get centimeter resolution needed for surveying. That signal is totally swamped by the Lightsquared system. This is the one where Deere and supporters say that there is no "practicable" solution -- a word which should ring alarm bells that lawyers are involved.

Looks like things are finally starting to get interesting for Lightsquared, but they haven't given up the battle, not by a long shot.

Parts of the report:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690469

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690470

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690471

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690472

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690473

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690474

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690476

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LightSquared Goes Global

Here's an article from GPS World on possible plans by LightSquared.

or http://tinyurl.com/3n84a89

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Costs

At what point does it become cheaper for LS to change frequencies rather than continue to pay lawyers to fight against what seems to be an ever-growing opposition? Maybe when the right thing to do becomes the cost effective thing to do, they'll actually do it.

Quite a While

-Nomad- wrote:

At what point does it become cheaper for LS to change frequencies rather than continue to pay lawyers to fight against what seems to be an ever-growing opposition? Maybe when the right thing to do becomes the cost effective thing to do, they'll actually do it.

Considering the billions LightSquared has riding on their project, the lawyers fees are nothing. Frankly, LS needs to get this project built no matter what. The fact that they are going to start building their terrestrial transmitters without waiting for approval shows the high stakes game they are willing to play. Sadly, I think they are going to get their system turned on and they are going to use all of their spectrum at some point. Their attitude that it is the GPS industries fault appears to have at least some minor traction and I suspect a sympathetic ear at the FCC.

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FCC Due Diligence?

Maybe at some point in the not too distant future we will get a "New" FCC that knows how to properly run Due Diligence Studies before approving a project of the magnitude of LS.

What would be interesting to

What would be interesting to know is:

Who is on Lightsquared's Board of Directors?

Who are their major investors?

What funds/donations have they or their major investors given to politicians, political organizations or lobbyists over the last couple of years?

This whole thing stinks of corruption and influence.

FCC

lbevil wrote:

Maybe at some point in the not too distant future we will get a "New" FCC that knows how to properly run Due Diligence Studies before approving a project of the magnitude of LS.

Agree Agree.

Not Gonna Happen (IMO)

mdh31951 wrote:
lbevil wrote:

Maybe at some point in the not too distant future we will get a "New" FCC that knows how to properly run Due Diligence Studies before approving a project of the magnitude of LS.

Agree Agree.

The FCC's primary function is to sell spectrum in order to make $$$$$$$$$. Everything else is secondary and will probably never happen.

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We Have A Winner!

Gary A wrote:
mdh31951 wrote:
lbevil wrote:

Maybe at some point in the not too distant future we will get a "New" FCC that knows how to properly run Due Diligence Studies before approving a project of the magnitude of LS.

Agree Agree.

The FCC's primary function is to sell spectrum in order to make $$$$$$$$$. Everything else is secondary and will probably never happen.

Exactly! LightSquared will make money (in theory) for the government. GPS costs the government money to operate and maintain. It wouldn't surprise me if someday they do not come up with a way to monetize GPS service, just like the business model for Galileo that will offer high precision to paid users. The closest thing we have is PPS but that is reserved to the military.

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LightSquared to Start Building LTE Network

By Stephen Lawson, IDG News
Jun 30, 2011 7:00 pm

LightSquared plans to start building its terrestrial wireless network soon, despite a regulatory approval process that has sparked vehement opposition from GPS vendors and won't be over until at least the middle of August.

"We can begin to roll out the network without turning it on," said Martin Harriman, executive vice president of LightSquared, in an interview on Thursday. "We will start deployments shortly, we have base stations in production, and ... our first devices are imminent."

The startup believes all the pieces are in place for it to start rolling out the network, except for the need for approval from the U.S. Federal Communications Commission to start using its radio spectrum, Harriman said. By getting infrastructure in place before the final approval, it could launch services more quickly after the decision.

LightSquared is on track to begin large-scale testing of its US$14 billion hybrid network at the beginning of next year, with commercial service available toward the end of the first quarter, Harriman said. Data cards with both satellite and LTE (Long-Term Evolution) capability will also be ready in or near the September timeframe to which the company committed to the FCC earlier this year. At that point, the devices will start to undergo extensive testing in preparation for the launch of services, he said.

In addition to covering 100 percent of the U.S. population with a satellite network, LightSquared has committed to reaching 36 percent of U.S. residents with its LTE (Long-Term Evolution) network by the end of 2012. By 2015, that figure would grow to 92 percent, or 260 million people. LightSquared won't offer consumers access to the networks directly but will sell service wholesale to partners including Best Buy and Leap Wireless.

However, because of LightSquared's unprecedented plan to use frequencies in the MSS (Mobile Satellite Service) band for a full-scale cellular network based on land, the company's service is hostage to an FCC requirement that it resolve possible interference with GPS (Global Positioning System) receivers. On Thursday, LightSquared gave the FCC the results of interference tests and a new plan to prevent problems by setting aside part of its spectrum.

Those reports are open for public comment until July 30 and then for responses until Aug. 15. The International Bureau, which oversees the MSS spectrum, could take as long as it likes to issue an order, and that order could be appealed to the FCC's commissioners for a vote.

The threat of disruption to GPS has sparked fierce opposition from companies in several industries and led government agencies to voice caution about the LTE network.

The company already has satellites in orbit, including SkyTerra-1, one of the world's largest communications satellites. Along with backup satellites, SkyTerra-1 will be able to deliver a connection to subscribers of hundreds of kilobits per second both upstream and downstream, Harriman said. As with other satellite systems, using it will require an unobstructed view of the sky.

LightSquared's cellular data network will be competitive with other LTE systems, such as Verizon's, and capable of downstream speed of about 20M bps (bits per second), he said. Leaving the upper portion of its spectrum aside wouldn't affect the speed of the network, but that spectrum would probably be needed later to expand capacity to serve a growing user base, Harriman said.

The dual-mode client devices for LightSquared's network will be based on the Qualcomm MDM9600 chipset, which is already shipping in volume, Harriman said. The MDM9600 is a flexible chipset that can be adapted to many different types of radio networks. Prototype data cards built with the MDM9600 are already in testing with Qualcomm in San Diego, Harriman said. LightSquared expects handsets to start shipping next June.

Both the Qualcomm-based clients and the base stations on LightSquared's LTE network can be easily adapted to use different parts of the company's spectrum, so the company's new plan won't hold up development of those components, Harriman said.

Stephen Lawson covers mobile, storage and networking technologies for The IDG News Service. Follow Stephen on Twitter at @sdlawsonmedia. Stephen's e-mail address is stephen_lawson@idg.com

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I bet . . .

Aardvark wrote:

I suspect a sympathetic ear at the FCC.

And likely a few open pockets, too.

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I hope it doesn't affect my

I hope it doesn't affect my old garmin in the future...

changing freq != abandodoning the project

Aardvark wrote:

Considering the billions LightSquared has riding on their project, the lawyers fees are nothing. Frankly, LS needs to get this project built no matter what. The fact that they are going to start building their terrestrial transmitters without waiting for approval shows the high stakes game they are willing to play. Sadly, I think they are going to get their system turned on and they are going to use all of their spectrum at some point. Their attitude that it is the GPS industries fault appears to have at least some minor traction and I suspect a sympathetic ear at the FCC.

Certainly the lawyer fees pale in comparison to the investment LS has made thus far. But using a different frequency doesn't mean they shut themselves down. They're already planning on using 2 different parts of the spectrum. How hard would it be to take the disputed part, and shift it further away from the GPS signals? Smaller (and older) RF gear could change frequencies as easily as changing an oscillator or crystal. The questions are do they need to be within a certain frequency range for proper signal propagation, and is there any other available space in the part of the spectrum they need? It may not matter that LS is beginning their buildout, as they can set the frequencies at their transmitters. So what is the cost of obtaining a new chunk of the spectrum (giving up the interfering part), and tweaking their transmitters to use it?

What about the sats?

If they weren't wise enough to have satellites with variable frequencies, they then have multimillion dollar brandy-new space junk if the existing frequency band is not permitted.

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Well, well, well.

What LS fails to recognize is the fact that it's not just the GPS industry effected here. Every cell phone has a GPS chip (so they are shooting themselves in the foot), and every ATM has a GPS in it (to get accurate time stamps on transactions).

So I guess were are gonna find out who has the deepest pockets to buy off the FCC. They have been bought and sold many times before. So it isn't a question of when, it's just a question of how much money is changing hands.

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one for the books

camerabob wrote:

If they weren't wise enough to have satellites with variable frequencies, they then have multimillion dollar brandy-new space junk if the existing frequency band is not permitted.

Could they really be stupid enough to launch non-configurable sats before they're even cleared for any chunk of spectrum? If so, they deserve to go under - but it would explain why they're so hell-bent on destroying GPS signals. That would be a bigger business disaster than New Coke. smile

Jamming

Yep another sign of the government working for the people.... Ha

Here's a report from the NTIA

Yesterday, NTIA Administrator Strickling formally submitted the PNT NCO/National Space-Based PNT Systems Engineering Forum (NPEF) report concerning LightSquared to the FCC.

Key statement: “The results of these measurements clearly demonstrate that implementing the LightSquared Subsidiary LLC (LightSquared) planned deployment for terrestrial operations poses a significant potential for harmful interference to Global Positioning System (GPS) services. Thus, the concerns stated in my letter to you dated January 12, 2011, remain unresolved.”

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/filings/2011/NTIA_FCCletter_LightSqu....

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Now a stake needs to be

Now a stake needs to be driven thru the heart of the company & find the bastards who were intent on selling the spectrum no matter what the impact.

Fred

Good Luck!

FZbar wrote:

Now a stake needs to be driven thru the heart of the company & find the bastards who were intent on selling the spectrum no matter what the impact.

Fred

You would have better luck finding a Kosher pork store in Israel. The FCC has been stonewalling Sen. Grassley's inquiries on GPS interference and has gone as far as telling him any FOIA requests could take two years for them to respond to and would be heavily redacted. Something smells bad and it is blowing from the FCC's direction but we cannot find the actual source of the smell.

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comment period now open

For those of you that have been following the progress on this proposal, you can now file comments on the LightSquared network proposal and the results of the testing recently completed in Las Vegas.

The aritcle from American Surveyor gives a good overview (yes, it is slanted against the proposed network) of some of the technical issues and provides links to the full report and how to file comments with the FCC.

One word about your comments. Many of the comments that will be filed will be formal comments in that they follow a prescribed legal format. As an individual you do not need to follow the same rules and can file what are termed "brief comments." These are often in the form of a letter but my experience is the brief comments filed by individuals often hold more weight than the formal comments filed by companies and associations. Associations and companies all have agendas, individuals are more concerned about the impact any change will have on their lives.

The best informal comments are those written by an individual which is not parroting a template put out by an organization. The "formula" comments are all lumped together and "scored" as a single comment rather than a count of individual comments.

http://www.amerisurv.com/content/view/8887/2/

Have at it!

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Coming from the

Coming from the government...doesn't surprise me any.

LightSquared Attempts To Bypass the FCC

http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/light...

It seems LightSquared is happy with how the FCC is treating them so they are going to the ITU for better treatment. I continue to believe LightSquared will go live and GPS will be toast:

Possibly recognizing that the July 1 final report on GPS testing showed that interference was worse than predicted, LightSquared lawyers are now bypassing the FCC and submitting technical papers directly to the UN’s International Telecommunications Union (ITU) in Geneva, according to published reports. A body similar to ICAO, the ITU allocates frequency bands within the radio spectrum to different user groups–such as aviation, surface and weather–and regulates and monitors their use. ITU rules are regarded as much stricter than the typical recommendations made by ICAO. Meanwhile, both LightSquared and the GPS community are accelerating their public-relations campaigns. LightSquared is announcing initial customers and statements of support from Internet and voice-over-Internet providers for its 4G broadband system, while the GPS industry warns of “ominous test results” regarding interference from LightSquared’s signals that could become “a matter of life and death” for first responders, such as ambulances, police and fire department vehicles. In Congress, the House of Representatives included in a financial appropriations bill a prohibition on further FCC expense on LightSquared’s proposal, even including staff salaries, until the company presents a complete GPS protection plan.

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Industry Class action suit

I can smell this coming.

And on top of it, I'd doubt seeing the military get a blank cheque for a complete revamp of GPS systems, when the Gov can't nail down a budget in DC.

Lastly, I'd like to know who's pulling the strings on this... Must be a very heavy hitter to get this far.

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Soon, we will be forced to

Soon, we will be forced to pay subscription for GPS usage

That's Sacrilege

Now, go wash your mouth out with Listerine! The Original one!

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Galileo

Oink wrote:

Soon, we will be forced to pay subscription for GPS usage

You may not be too far off the mark. That is the business model for the EU's Galileo project. Coarse data will be free but precision data will require a subscription. We would still need to get Galileo supported devices but I would not fall off my chair if I heard that GPS was going subscription.

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ITU plays--

I suspect Lightsquared will have less luck blowing smoke up the ITU's collective you-know-what.

For one, the ITU have seen not only the popular press on this debacle, but also the technical press which has been far more detailed. The ITU knows what's coming, who is knocking on their door, and why.

And when you look at Deere's testing and comments -- Deere for their precision location service uses a satellite signal which is downlinked in that band below GPS -- a licensed, intended use for that band. Lightsquared's proposed system completely wipes out this signal. It's not a matter of receiver skirts not being steep enough; it walks all over the signal. That's one of the reasons for the "no practicable solution" comments.

Lightsquared has a good idea -- it's in the wrong band, that's all.

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LightSquared 4G would have "severe operational impact" on GPS

ARS Technica report covering information from the NTIA report of LSQ's interference to GPS

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/07/report-light...

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GPS

Drat!!

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band

k6rtm wrote:

Lightsquared has a good idea -- it's in the wrong band, that's all.

Are they unable use a different band? I know its very congested now, but I thought switching to Digital TV and getting rid of the UHF and VHF signals was suppose to free up some.

filing comments with the FCC

Here's a tip sheet on how to file comments with the FCC. This doesn't tell you what to say, but does tell you some of the items your comments could contain.
HELP SAVE OUR GPS!
Please Submit your Comments to the FCC by July 31
Background
In January, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) conditionally allowed a company called LightSquared to offer wireless broadband services in radio frequency bands adjacent to those used by GPS receivers. Based on feedback from public and private sector GPS users, the FCC told LightSquared that it could not launch service until testing could be completed to determine the extent of the problems that LightSquared would cause. The report of that testing was submitted to the FCC on June 30th and it showed that there would be massive interference to GPS from LightSquared’s proposed operations. The FCC has asked for feedback from the public on the report. Comments will be taken until Saturday, July 31.
What can I do?
Everyone who cares about GPS should let the FCC know about the threat that LightSquared poses. In writing to the FCC, we encourage you to cover the following points in your own words:
 How you use GPS technology in your business and/or personal life
 What would happen to your business/personal life if GPS became unavailable or unreliable
 While more capacity for wireless broadband services is important, it should not come at the expense of GPS, which is critical to our country’s economy
 The results of the testing that were performed at the FCC’s request are conclusive – they show that GPS reception would be wiped out by LightSquared’s proposed service.
 Now that the test results have shown interference to GPS, the FCC shouldn’t allow LightSquared to keep trying out modified versions of its plan to use the spectrum near the GPS band. LightSquared’s operations and GPS are fundamentally incompatible and the FCC should order LightSquared out of that band.
How do I tell the FCC to save GPS?
The FCC has an easy-to-use portal on its website to submit feedback on the testing results:
(1) Click on this link for the FCC’s Electronic Comments Filing System (ECFS): http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/upload/begin?procName=&filedFr...
(2) In the box which says “Proceeding Number,” type: 11-109. It is important to include this docket number with your comments.
(3) In the designated boxes, enter (a) your name or your company’s name, and (b) your mailing address/city/state/zip.
(4) In the box which says “Type in or paste your brief comments,” do so. Click “Continue”.
(5) A review page will load listing all of the information entered. If correct, click “Confirm.” (6) If you have trouble, contact the FCC ECFS Helpdesk at 202-418-0193 or e-mail at ecfshelp@fcc.gov.

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Illiterate? Write for free help.

It seems not everyone commented

NextGov reports that the total number of comments filed at the FCC in the LightSquared matter now totals 2, 823 “and it seems every kind of farmer in America -- except those who grow marijuana -- decided to let the FCC know that LightSquared will foul up GPS-enabled precision farming operations.”

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Illiterate? Write for free help.

FCC says they'll protect GPS--

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/09/us-lightsquared-fc...

FCC says they'll protect GPS, and won't allow LightSquared to operate in a manner that interferes with GPS.

Sounds good -- let's see if they follow through.

A cynic might point out that this whole fiasco is the FCC's doing -- the "L" band, just below GPS, is designated (by the FCC among others) for low-power satellite downlinks.

Low power satellite downlinks -- NOT high-power terrestrial stations, which is what LightSquared proposed and wants to build!

But the FCC politicos ignored their own technology mandarins and gave this fiasco the green light.

What a mess!

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Nuvi 2460, 680, DATUM Tymserve 2100, Trimble Thunderbolt, Ham radio, Macintosh, Linux, Windows

What a mess

k6rtm wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/09/us-lightsquared-fc...

FCC says they'll protect GPS, and won't allow LightSquared to operate in a manner that interferes with GPS.

Sounds good -- let's see if they follow through.

A cynic might point out that this whole fiasco is the FCC's doing -- the "L" band, just below GPS, is designated (by the FCC among others) for low-power satellite downlinks.

Low power satellite downlinks -- NOT high-power terrestrial stations, which is what LightSquared proposed and wants to build!

But the FCC politicos ignored their own technology mandarins and gave this fiasco the green light.

What a mess!

Everything the gov touchs is mess

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Always on the Road Knowing where I've Been

Where the rubber meets the

Where the rubber meets the road is in aircraft operation & safety. Should they're gps's be interfered with or heaven forbid, a crash, there is likely to be a public hanging of FCC personnel who were part of the decision.

There was a full page advertisement about a week ago in the Washington Post by Lightspeed saying others will have to fix their gear & there was no significant technical problem. Obviously, people are already up in arms & making contact with their govt representatives.

We live in interesting times.
Fred

FCC

k6rtm wrote:

But the FCC politicos ignored their own technology mandarins and gave this fiasco the green light.

That's what happens when bureaucrats overrule engineers. mad

Lightsquared

FCC Wants GPS Interference Facts

The FCC has essentially asked LightSquared and the GPS industry to cut the rhetoric and provide it with the facts it needs to make a decision on LightSquared's plan to provide nationwide wireless broadband on radio frequencies and at power levels that have been shown to interfere with GPS signals. Last Tuesday, FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski reiterated comments we first reported in June that the LightSquared plan will not be allowed to proceed at the expense of GPS. Since then, the GPS industry has said up to 500 million devices that use GPS in the U.S. could be affected. LightSquared says the number is more like 200,000 under its revised plan to move its initial deployment to frequencies a little farther away from GPS. According to the Washington Post both sides have been asked to be specific about the number and type of devices that will be affected by the revised plan. LightSquared has also been asked to specify how many towers will be activated in the initial deployment and their location. The comment period for the FCC rulemaking process ends Monday and LightSquared is turning up the heat on the GPS industry by intensifying its position that GPS manufacturers cheaped out on their devices. LightSquared said manufacturers failed to comply with Department of Defense standards to protect their devices from interference from neighboring frequencies.

Jeff Carlisle, LightSquared's VP of Regulatory Affairs says in the release that agencies have been warning the GPS industry since 2000 that its gear doesn't measure up. In 2008, he said the DOD issued standards that would allow GPS a "guard frequency" of 4 MHz while the latest LightSquared proposal gives a 23 MHz gap between broadband and GPS. Carlisle said the GPS industry wants a 34 MHz gap and that's not sustainable given the scarcity of radio frequency spectrum and the urgent need to expand Internet services. "If all spectrum users demanded the irrational guard band solutions that GPS manufacturers are demanding, we would not have broadband in this country and efficient spectrum use would take a backseat to the squeakiest wheel," Carlisle said. "This type of precedent would set back the United States' competitiveness by decades. The GPS industry turned a blind eye to the Department of Defense's recommendations regarding the manufacturing of commercial GPS receivers and a blind eye to the ITU's long-standing recommendations regarding GPS receiver performance."

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Dudlee
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