Garmin Shortcomings...and Here Comes the Nuvi 3790

 

I have been following with interest the latest fragments of information about the forthcoming new Nuvi 3790 (part of the 3700 series), partly out of curiosity for what new features it might contain, but also due to my perverse wondering of whether Garmin will simply continue to produce another new, inadequate product.

My perception is that since the Nuvi 750/760 series and 255/265 (introduced in 2007 and 2008, respectively), Nuvis have GENERALLY been produced with a lessened range of features, and which operate less reliably: I specifically consider lessened “map detail” and likelihood of unit “freeze ups” the greatest shortcomings: Nuvis used to have 5 levels of detail, but recent ones have only 3 levels, a basis for much online complaint. The first widespread drop in Garmin reliability was with the 755/765 units, many of whose owners continue to be frustrated with poor touchscreen operations, let alone the widespread North American satellite glitches / freezeups in Summer 2009, which rendered thousands of units totally inoperable…and mandated returns for exchange/repair by Garmin. The freeze glitch was corrected within about two weeks, but unreliable touchscreen presses continue to plague many owners, despite an apparent Garmin promise to finally correct that with a software update this past March.

While Garmin did produce the generally reliable 8xx series of 850/880 and 855/885 (touchscreens are OK, and Voice Commands are considered the best among GPS brands) , they and the 1200, 1300, and 1400 series have less map detail than their predecessors AND I frequently read online complaints about “freezes” in the 855 and 1xxx series models. And let us not forget the widespread daily online complaints with a wide variety of Nuvis that suffer from “screen lag,” whereby drivers arrive at turns and intersections up to several hundred feet before their Nuvi car icon does (resulting in constant confusion: “Is this where I am supposed to turn...?” [Meanwhile, Nuvis do NOT have the seemingly very simple feature of an audible beep sound to counter this flaw, to announce the exact moment when to execute turns. This feature WAS in older Nuvis, and exists in current Tomtoms.] I consider that all the shortcomings regarding map detail, touchscreen mis-sensitivity, unit freezeups, and screen lag are major flaws that seriously hinder the usefulness of those Nuvis so afflicted, and are a cause of constantly expressed online frustration, and product exchanges and returns to Garmin.

The Nuvi 3790
I have just reviewed the online Manual for Garmin’s newest Nuvi, the 3790, and wish to comment on what I consider several pathetic components, both on the product itself, as well as the Manual. Specifically, my comments address one incomprehensible instruction for determining “satellite strength,” and two other features of “Voice Commands” and “Reporting an Error.“ [My comments are drawn from the “Nuvi 3700 Series Owners Manual,” which can be downloaded at: http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/nuvi3760T_OwnersManual.pdf

I offer this example of apparent stupidity by Garmin from Page 4 of the new Manual:
“Acquiring Satellites”
The (green bar icon) bar indicates satellite strength.
1. Go outdoors to an open area, away from tall buildings and trees.
2. If necessary, turn on your device.”

One has to wonder at instruction #2: Is it REALLY “necessary” to TURN ON the device? What alternative is there to being…“IF necessary?” Duh!

“Voice Commands”
But I Digress: A major reason for this post is the severely limited “Voice Commands” feature in the new 3790. Voice Commands are apparently limited to a single purpose, which is to “FIND ADDRESS” or “FIND BY NAME.” Pages 19-21 detail a meticulous process whereby users are directed to use five steps regarding “FIND:”

1. Speak a customized “Wake Up Phrase.”
2. Speak “Find By Name”(i.e., Starbucks) or “Find Address” (no detail is offered for operation of this term, so one can assume the user will have to learn by experimentation)
3. Speak a “line number” (from screen choices)
4. Speak an Option (apparently the only choices are “Navigate” and “Call,” i.e., activate a Bluetooth connected phone)

Voice Commands thus no longer offer the extensive range of commands in the 8xx series, whereby I can use 36 commands to operate a wide variety of Nuvi functions, including Next Turn, List all turns on route, Trip Computer, Go Home, View Map, Zoom map in/out, adjust Volume, Detour, Routes, Tools, Where To, and Help. Besides the two functions in the 3790 of just…Find Address and Place By Name, the older units also offer the ability to FIND City, Favorite, Nearest, Place by Category, Favorites, and Recently Found. So much for a “new and improved” Nuvi. [All of my comments on “Voice Commands” are based on owning the Nuvi 855, which I love for allowing operation of a wide variety of functions without having to touch the Nuvi while driving (if I choose). This is much safer than reaching for the Nuvi at highway speeds, or even while moving slower on local streets, and thus avoiding the increasingly criticized “multitasking” with electronic devices while driving.]

There are two attractive improvements in Voice Commands, which (1) are that users can create their own detailed phrase to “wakeup” the Nuvi to receive spoken commands, and (2) a remote band is no longer needed (apparently) to strap to the steering wheel, in order to “wakeup” the Nuvi.

“Reporting an Incorrect Point of Interest”
I also call attention to the following supposed “feature” in the 3790 (Page 11): “Reporting an Incorrect Point of Interest.” Thus…“When your search results contain an outdated or incorrect point of interest, you can remove the location from future searches.” Specifically, the Manual states: touch “Report Error…and the location is removed from future searches.” This merely prevents the user from accessing an erroneous POI again, but in fact, does NOT REPORT this location to anyone or anywhere. [Reporting of erroneous POIs or street/highway errors is a feature of some Tomtoms, when units are connected to the internet.] This has to be ONE of the most useless “features” seen in recent Nuvis; I consider this on a par with 3-D building displays and “Eco Routing.” [By the way, 3 pages (p. 32-35) of the new manual is devoted to detailing the widely ignored function (in other Nuvis) of Eco Routing. In comparison, there is just 1 page (p. 15) regarding the truly vital function of “Trip Planning,” which used to be known as “Routes,” but is now offered without any helpful illustrations, as exists in other Manuals).

Of course, my comments are based only on the Manual itself, which, like all recent Garmins, is severely limited in terms of instructions, examples, and graphic illustrations (such as screen pictures detailing the multiple features and operational steps). I await reports from those who actually buy this product, and report their actual usage: Perhaps the Voice Commands will actually be substantially greater than indicated in the Manual, although I cannot tell from reading this new Manual. Actually, I look forward to reading all facets of operation of the Nuvi 3790…and comparing them to features on predecessor units. In particular, I am curious as to apparently improved “Junction Views,” whereby I have seen more photo realistic picture samples (online) than exist with current Nuvis.

Just in case Garmin corporate staff happen to read this discussion: I can’t help but also identify MANY other problems that afflict many Garmin owners: Inadequate Manuals in general (poorly detailed examples of operations, insufficient graphic illustrations), long waits of at least 30 minutes for all telephone support, software updates that sometimes introduce new glitches, no corporate presence on internet forums to comment on widespread Nuvi problems, initially small number of lane assistance and junction views across the US and Canada, low volume from unit speakers, unreliable operation of Traffic Assistance and Detours, and poor and unexplainable variations in routing.

Simple Suggestions for Garmin to Improve All Nuvis
And in the While I’m At It Category: The only reason I wrote this material is because I actually harbor very faint hope that somehow, someday, Garmin will significantly improve its products. Sure, my own biases and stilted opinions abound and will differ in many ways from others, BUT I do believe that I have correctly identified significant Nuvi problems that a great majority of owners agree with. I continue to be hopeful that Garmin execs may someday agree with the bulk of my statements (as well as the resulting comments appended to this thread), and will incorporate changes for the good of all. It is only because I want to have a better Nuvi available the next time that I buy, that I make this effort. [And Yeah, to let off just a wee bit of steam!]

How can Garmin not realize its Manuals need a simple list of helpful tips to overcome the most common problems?...like: Hold BACK button down to quickly return to Main Menu, be sure to select voices marked TTS for unit to speak commands, press Turn Arrow to see and hear Next Turn Command. These are just some of the most common frustrations voiced by your customers, over and over again. Oooh, everyone else can join in to offer even more suggestions!

How many users would praise Garmin if ALL Nuvis had an audible BEEP for “Turn Here?” Further, why cannot Garmin create some alternate phrases that users could select to replace “Recalculating?” Offer a widely desired option to display either Next Turn Name OR Current Road/Street at the top of ALL Nuvi screens. Offer a widely desired, customizable window on ALL Nuvis for time of arrival, distance to next turn, elevation, etc. [ If necessary for additional software memory dedicated to the forgoing functions, delete less used “features” like 3-D buildings and Eco Routing.] Why is Garmin so stubborn that it has not previously recognized these complaints and reacted with appropriate changes to its Nuvis?

And NO, Garmin, you don’t have to reward me for these ideas: Instead, thank internet discussion forums like this for the constant exchange of complaints about, and suggestions on how to improve your products! Just imagine how much longer your telephone hold times would be, and how many more thousands of Nuvis would be returned to Garmin out of disgust, if it were not for internet discussion forums...that help us learn to operate your products? I consider internet forums responsible for most of what I have learned about my Nuvi, and how to get the most out of it, instead of the pathetic online Manual. End of latest Garmin rant.

No beep please.

I agree with many of your points about the shortcomings in the nuvi design. But I don't really want a beep for a turn alert, unless it could be turned off. That's what TTS is for.

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Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

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alandb wrote:

But I don't really want a beep for a turn alert, unless it could be turned off.

Exactly. Give the user the option to enable/disable these kinds of things. Forcing one way or the other is never good practice.

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nuvi 760, nuvi 765T, nuvi 855, nuvi 3790LMT, nuvi 3490LMT - SoCal area

Nuvi 3790

I'll just keep my 855. It does everything that I want it to do.

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3790LMT; 2595LMT; 3590LMT, 60LMTHD

Harsh

Considering all of this is based just on the manual, you've worked yourself up in to a regular tissy.

I know that for a unit to function it has to be turned on. If it is already on, it is not necessary to turn it on again. Unfortunately, there are enough people out there that DON'T know this. Don't think for one minute this was added for fun. It was added because they've had enough people complain their unit did not work and needed to be reminded to turn it on, or not try to turn it back on if it already is.

I note in the 1490T manual that on POI error reporting is says the POI won't show up in future searches but also that the error will be reported the next time the unit is connected to the computer. I wonder if this was accidentally deleted or left out of the text?

I don't see a full list of voice commands available on this unit. The manual does mention that the full list is available on the unit. Could it be that this list wasn't ready when the pdf file was written?

Which should come first? The announcement to "Turn right n Main Street" as my Nuvi does now when I arrive at the turn and then the beep, or the beep and then the announcement? Maybe it should beep between each word so I know it means this street I'm actually at and not the one a block away?

Agreed that the manuals need to be improved, and if you have users that can't figure out that it isn't necessary to turn an already powered up unit on again, they certainly won't be able to figure out more difficult operations like holding down the Back button to jump up to the home page, but these are issues for the technical writers to correct.

I'll be interested to read how the actual unit operates, not just how poorly written the manual is.

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Drivesmart 66, Nuvi 2595LMT (Died), Nuvi 1490T (Died), Nuvi 260 (Died), GPSMAP 195

Responses to the Comments

Alandb: I certainly agree with the desirability of optional “audible beeps” for turns.

Rthibodaux: I only wish that everyone could be as satisfied with their 855’s as you are. I count myself very fortunate that my unit has never “frozen up” like many others have reported. Unit freezes first began being reported at Amazon’s customer reviews last July 4, began being frequent in October and November 2009, and have started to become a flood in 2010 (including several new complaints posted just this week). I originally thought that my unit just happened to be part of a good batch from initial production (when bought at Costco last June), but there were also tons of upset new owners reporting freezes last Summer on the Costco reviews page for the 855…and returning them.

Harsh: This “tissy” began when I initially intended just to criticize the 3790 Manual, but soon led me to draw parallels to flaws with many recent Nuvis…and my belief that the new 3790 is likely to come with its own set of design flaws and unreliable operation. Basically, I consider my original post as a warning to all potential buyers of the 3790, to be alert to it just being one in a continuing line of inadequately designed or tested Nuvi products…and a plea to the Garmin corporation to finally do something about it.

I have specifically complained about the Manual because I believe it is at the ROOT of a lot of Nuvi customer complaints, in that basic features and operation of the units are poorly explained…and thus force many persons to seek help in discussion forums. [On the other hand, I also recognize that many, if not most, owners never read Manuals for a host of electronic products.]

As for the Voice Commands supposedly being summarized on the 3790 internal “Help” screen: IF the new unit does, in fact, have many more commands than I have posited, it is a major flaw that the Manual does not spell them out there. Where better to inform new owners of the capability of their Nuvi? Further, IF there are multiple commands, I wouldn’t expect Garmin to identify them all: The online 855 Manual lists 22 Commands, but I have since indentified 14 others, which Garmin never bothered to tell its customers about…anywhere, and which significantly enhance its usability. I have since taken advantage of forums like this to offer my expanded list to other users…and have sent links to the list to at least 90 persons since last Fall. Perhaps new 3790 owners will soon be seeking out that list.

I can only WISH that the 3790 is finally a Garmin Nuvi that has a lot of desirable features, and which operates as reliably as Nuvis did when produced as late as 2007 and 2008. Hey, I might even buy another Garmin someday, IF it regains a reputation for reliability.

About changing that voice "recalculating" when missing a turn

FYI
You can now download software from Garmin and creat your own voices telling you what to do next. Also there are voices you can download that are fun to listen to for the kids like Squirrely, or Elfred for Christmas time and Dr. Nightmare for Holloween.

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Lets Roll

nuvi 765 problems

I just received my second replacement for a 765 with the touch screen problem, still has the same problem, but it also included another - when you touch the map screen to move the map it takes it seems like anyways, a while to refresh the screen. I had planned to buy the lifetime map updates but instead I plan on buying a Tom Tom gps.

One more comment regarding "If Necessary, turn on your device"

I'm a support specialist, and I write a lot of documentation on many topics. And I must tell you that "not mentioning this" would be considered a major flaw by a picky QA agent. And that agent would be right, in my view.

We have so many input errors these days, I posted a couple in another Joke thread on this site. What we called an error between the chair and the keyboard.

I even remember one day when a colleague was giving an introduction to Win95 in a large company. At the note of "Now put your mouse up and to the left", the company CEO did just that: got up, raised his hand with the mouse in it, on the left side, and said "And now ?".

My colleague never truly agreed if the guy had a terrible sense of humor, or was plain computer-illiterate, all he knew for sure was the guy's role !

And allow me to share another, terrible news. In another company, I was proof-reading a manual, and I came across an incorrect point. Like, a Big One. I informed my manager of that error, and he said "Leave it, it's intentional. We also sell hot-line support to those clients!"

I'm sorry if I ruined some of your hopes, just remember that some people actually do live from such jobs a support... And don't hate them, they're there to help you.

It's not their fault when/if it ain't working, at least someone made sure they'd be there for you.

Peace, Brothers (and hugs, Sisters)

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Ain't nuthin' never just right to do the things you wanna do when you wanna do them, so you best just go ahead and do them anyway ! (Rancid Crabtree, from Pat F McManus fame)

765T Problems

blake7mstr wrote:

I just received my second replacement for a 765 with the touch screen problem, still has the same problem, but it also included another - when you touch the map screen to move the map it takes it seems like anyways, a while to refresh the screen. I had planned to buy the lifetime map updates but instead I plan on buying a Tom Tom gps.

Unfortunately the 765's problems are only going to be fixed by an update to firmware version 3.90. Also, the CPU is running at its capacity so some operations, such as map redrawing are, alas, never going to get better. I too swapped a 765T (new for new from Amazon.com) and the problems remained. Honestly, I think they do the swaps just to get people off of the customer support line. At least Amazon.com was gracious to do it with no questions asked and not send me a refurbished device for a one week old unit.

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I support the right to keep and arm bears.

Nicely written

And to the point.

Garmin Shortcomings

Yes.. good summary and right on target.

Garmin has been more disappointing than exciting in recent times.

They may still be the best choice out there, but I feel they are losing their edge.

What?

You want Garmin to change their business model?

They already have a large pool of Beta testers out there to improve their product.

Except they call it "the customer".

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If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there.

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Maybe Garmin figures that the competition isn't good enough for them to worry about perfection. I don't see many complaints, or much of anything, about other makers on this website. But I looked at the customer ratings for TomTom's on Amazon and they are generally lower than Garmins.

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nuvi 200 | lifetime maps

There ARE more Voice Commands

Because I DO like to be helpful in providing information about Nuvis, I offer the following update to my originating post, regarding which Voice Commands are actually in the new 3790. The bad news is that I did NOT find this information in the online Manual, where one should expect to learn about operating the new unit, but from a youtube video.

The terms which I did see displayed are still much more limited than in the 855, but what I saw printed on screen was:
View Map, Find by Name, Find by Category, Find by Address, Find by City, Favorites, Recently Found, Go Home, Stop Route, Volume, Detour and Brightness.

Perhaps there are others…but you cannot expect Garmin to tell you in the Manual. As usual, buyers will have to depend on accessing forums like this, and randomly depending on what others find by accident...and choose to pass on! I DO still look forward to learning more about Garmin’s newest unit...and even of actual operational use.

By the way, there appear to be at least a dozen youtube videos already produced about the Nuvi 3790…

Nuvi

I hate to admit it, but I find my older 750 is more user friendly than my newer 755t. I hope the trend doesn't continue...

nuvi 3790T

The 3790 is pretty flashy. Of course, the $450 price tag isn't.

The new Garmin 3790 Pros vs

The new Garmin 3790 Pros vs Cons:

Pros: High resolution screen, slim profile.

Cons: Pricey, missing features.

My thought: I would buy it for half the retail price.

3790T

I just bought two Garmin Nüvi 3790T's. The main complaint I have is that Garmin have eliminated the possibility two install one´s own or third party speed warning files. You can upload the files as before with the PoiLoader and they will install in the unit's POI folder under Poi.gpi. However, you cannot select them under the PROXIMITY option. when you select Custom Files and hit "Save", the unit will default to the GARMIN Cyclops files. A clever way to promote their own expensive, yet less accurate speed warning files.

Nuvi 765 Problems

I have not had any problems with my 765's, albeit I might be less demanding. I warn against the TomTom unless you live in a rainy country. The screen is extremely dark. Down here in our Mediterranean sun it is all but invisible.

3790T will get better

Most of the issues with the 3790T can be fixed with a firmware update. Garmin usually puts out updates on a fairly regular basis. The 3790T has only been sold in the USA for 3 weeks so there hasn't been time to get fixes developed and posted.

I bought one early even knowing there could be issues. My motto is that when you live on the cutting edge be prepared to bleed a lot.

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Brent - DriveLuxe 51 LMT-S