GPS signals will improve

Hopefully these will be compatible with most existing GPS units.

That's a given according to the article:

What does using ATM has to do with GPS signals?

It would seem these sats are also used for transmissions other than just GPS perhaps?

If so, I would suggest it would mean better data communications, and having access to your bank account in more places, faster.

that's a really good news

This quote of the LA Times article is disturbing on several levels. It indicates a lack of technical knowledge on the part of the 'expert' who is writing articles that will be perceived as fact by many.

I cannot for even one second, believe that GPS sats have anything to do with ATM data transactions.

And how about the 'more accurate' part? Is (s)he saying that ATM transactions are not very accurate now?

I guess that's why the article is in the Business section and not the Technology section.

It's a fluff piece - reporters never bother to get their tech facts right in this type of article.

I wonder how much the author (can I properly use that term for this type of garbage?) got to write the drivel that was published.

Sent the following to the reporter:

Interesting piece.

One question, however; Just how will the US Army upgrading the GPS network make ATM transactions either faster OR more accurate?

Are you suggesting that ATM transactions are inaccurate to begin with? That would be very scary.

But seriously, is the new constellation going to be more powerful than the old? Will the new constellation replace the old one? Will the accuracy be better?

Can you point me to your sources? I am truly interested in the background.

best regards

Stranger things ...

"Alternative Authentication Schemes via the Positioning Device

Alternative authentication schemes may also be employed. Apple's patent FIG. 9A illustrated below presents a transaction terminal such as an automatic teller machine (ATM) 160 coupled to a server 162 to authenticate the iPhone for transactions. In FIG. 9B we see that the location of the iPhone is being determined based on information from the Positioning Device: A Positioning Device may utilize the global positioning system (GPS) implemented using satellite communications or a regional or site-wide positioning system that uses cell tower positioning technology or Wi-Fi technology, for example. In FIG. 9C, the iPhone is shown to be communicating via the cellular network 168. In FIG. 9D Apple discusses Bluetooth and Wi-Fi communication protocols."

http://www.patentlyapple.com/.a/6a0120a5580826970c0134818080...

Time stamping transactions via GPS time signals.... and security of the machines themselves - think lojack...

Looks like the Gizmodo story is just a rehash of this LA Times article. LA Times article is more informative IMHO.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gps-20100523,0,3054578...

There are many places that used fixed GPS receivers for timing information. All cell sites have GPS receivers to provide timing and location information (which I find odd because the sites do not move).

When you're doing a timing receiver, you can (and many companies do) optimize the code for keeping stable timing information, relying on the fact that the antenna is not moving.

(Going back to the days when "Selective Availability" was still turned on, some times the GPS antenna on top of my garage was moving many meters per second!)

The new GPS birds are going to take a while to get launched and checked out, and taking advantage of the new civilian frequencies will take new receivers to refine positions from the tens-of-meters we have today to a few meters using the additional signals.

I think our current equipment still has a few years of useful life, at least!

If I remember correctly from a link posted several months ago, the new Sats will have more transmitter power, better circuits.

The increase in accuracy will be due to the increased power of the transmitted signal, and the ability of the receivers to compute to more decimal places.

It only makes sense that going forward, every satellite that goes up will be as multi-functional as possible.

You'll know which ATM you're at! Oh wait.

As stated earlier, GPS is used for very accurate timing in a number of systems.

My understanding is that the entire telephone system backbone (land lines) relies on accurate GPS timing.

It's been a few years since I last got into the network level of the telephone system but the switches were tied to a Stratum-3 clock that was in sync with the National Bureau of Standards over fiber rather than an off-the-air interface to GPS. Now the cellular network, that's different. The individual cell sites have a GPS receiver for timing, but the switching centers are tied to the same Signaling System 7 used by the landline companies. And those all are in sync with the same atomic clock at the NBS.

Few years back, I remember reading about increase in solar flare activity of sun -- this causing the GPS signal to weaken. I guess this boost is signal is just in time.

a better signal that would work even with a thick forest cover, or in a major city canyon, or even inside buildings would be a nice improvement.

As others have mentioned, the GPS system is used by almost all companies for timing of their data systems. I am retired from one of the first fiber-optic long distance companies. We used clocks to sync our transmission systems and switches that were high precision oscillators which used two time references. The primary reference was the GPS system and the backup system was LORAN-C.

It is extremely important for data systems to be in step with each other to enable error-free transmission, especially at higher data rates. Error-free transmission means fewer re-transmissions of data blocks and results in higher effective data rates. But you won't notice any difference in your ATM transaction speed.

Is this the same satellite(s) used my some gas pumps for credit transactions?

(Ain't 'letronic stuff grand?)

gonna pay for it in the long run? The UK has TV licenses for using a TV set. Same could happen with GPS. I mean technically to use 2 way radios, depending on strength and frequency, we're supposed to have an FCC license, heh.

If you look on top of your bank branch the odds are good that you will see a sat dish. The branches use sat to transfer data between branches and the central location. Better access to sats means better data transmission between ATM's and main branch databases.

At least this is how my bank does this stuff (TDBank).

Has anyone tried using the antenna accessory that boosts signal reception?

Should work pretty well, for all those ATM's that are out in the open with a clear view of the sky.

Not sure of time stamping via GPS. After all, the ATMs are already on a network and can get the time from there just as accurately as from a GPS sat. An earlier post mentioned positional authentication. I guess that could be an extra step of security for where they are considering using a smart phone or iPhone app to operate the ATM instead of swiping a card and entering a PIN.

Obtaining a patent does not mean it exists, though.

Yes, I have and they work very well, especially in the 'concrete canyons' of cities. Acquisition time on my old unit was almost instant. In my mind, a very worthwhile purchase.

Hey Juggernaut, thanks for the reply! Are you using the GA 25MCX low profile remote GPS antenna that Garmin touts or a different third party product?

I've used the Mighty Mouse, and the Gilsson. Both have a 28DB attenuation.

http://www.gilsson.com/garmin_gps/garmin_antennas.htm

http://www.gpscentral.ca/accessories/mm2.htm

System will be ready in 2021??

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_wguy/20100526/tc_ytech_wguy/yt...

I am not sure if it has anything to do with the transactions, but I found these articles.

http://www.atmmarketplace.com/article.php?id=7703

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BPW/is_2_18/ai_n2716...

I'll definitely look into getting one or the other. I'm assuming both were good with negligible difference?

i like the sound of this!!!

wfo

if this is true http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100601/D9G2G6IO0.html, then problems with my Garmins seem small in comparison.

tech. moves on -- with never ending advancement (and costs).

What a great thing that would be!

Has anyone had any experience with wifi signal interference? I recently changed the channel setting on my portable wireless devices and found some minimal signal improvement. I'm talking about using laptops and cell phones to access the internet in the backseat while the GPS is also going.

I do the same thing for the wireless router at home.

GPS uses 1.57542 GHz (L1 signal) and 1.2276 GHz. WiFi uses 2.4GHz or 5GHz. There shouldn't be any interference. There might be an issue with receiver desensitization but I seriously doubt it with the power levels being used.

I have never had any interference and I put out 50 watts on my 144Mhz transmitter. But thats even farther away from the GPS freqs .

No interference here either.

Thanks for the info aardvark. I suppose I need to brush up on my radio frequency/wifi basics. Do you tweak the frequency/power level/other settings for your own GPS device at all?

The problem is that everyone and their brother, including their dogs uses the 2.4 GHz WiFi band. That includes cordless phones, your Bluetooth headset, wireless speakers and your wifi connection to your computer. It's anarchy and the strongest signal wins. Everybody else just adds to the noise on the band.

So, that dropped call on your cell phone when talking on a headset very well may not be due to the cell signal being dropped but your bluetooth getting a signal from someone else telling it to end the call. All that noise affects data speeds too.

I don't see the given, You can bet as Europe brings Galileo on line, and the hybrid Receiver front end come into play, the standalone GPS and integrated GPS/GLONASS,Galileo will be the norm covering the complete earth with any of the three systems in view, putting you spot on.
Companies are working on single chip receiver front ends now.

Obsoleting electronic equipment is done on a regular basis. So be prepared to buy a new hybrid GPSr.

I would expect nothing less of the industry, Bob.

But it IS a given you'll get a better signal... You just may have to buy new equipment to get it, that's all.

However, they may make it a 'broad spectrum' signal incorporating the current standards. We can hope!

Reminds me of the clunky hand weight-like early version cell phones that could get reception through cement walls a mile underground =)