Very disapointed with my new Garmin

 

I had a TomTom 920 and loved it but thought I would "upgrade" to a Garmin 765t. What a mistake! The TomTom has the Garmin beat all the way around.

POI;s... I'm in Las Vegas, I tried to do a search by name for Sam's Club, any Toyota Dealer, and my barber. Garmin does not list any Toyota Dealers in Las Vegas, Tomtom lists them all. Garmin doesn't list any Sam's club, TomTom lists them all. Garmin didn't list my barber who has been there forever but TomTom does.

The Garmin would "search" for about 4 minutes then come back with no matches found. I tried to find these places using name, address and type of business. NOTHING! The maps of the Garmin are also not as accurate or up to date as TomTom. A new street near my house has been there for 2 years. Garmin still doesn't show it, but TomTom does.

I tried some other POI's as well and TomTom always showed more than Garmin.

My new Garmin also has "lane assist" and "junction view". These features show NOTHING in the Vegas area. The TomTom also had these new features (just updated the software) but I will say, it also showed nothing in Vegas. Disapointment for both systems on this feature.

I actually had them side by side in the car for a few days, I thought maybe I just had to get used to the Garmin. That is NOT the case. It just doesn't work as well or as fast as the TomTom. I wish I'd kept the TomTom. I feel I've wasted my money on the Garmin as it was twice as much as the TomTom. This is a case where you DON'T get what you pay for.

Bummer

Just for grins I did a search on Mapsource for Sam's Club, Toyota, and My Barber in Nevada and came up empty also.

I believe this site could help you with the first two, but not sure about the third.

OTOH, I'm a firm believer in not losing any of my electronic devices to a new one until I confirm it's usefulness.

I typically find out within a few days whether or not the replacement will work and have ample time to return it if required.

Hope things work out.

--
Jeff...... Nuvi 2460, Nuvi 2595

Disappointed

I tried setting the location to Vegas too. When I searched for Toyota, I got a dealer in St. George, UT 115 miles away. Found Sam's Town, but couldn't find Sam's Club.

I like my Garmin, and I don't seem to have too much trouble finding stuff I'm searching for around here, but you bring up a valid point. POI searching could be better.

Any chance you could return your unit for a refund and get a Go 930 instead?

Good news / Bad news...

I have an older NUVI (350) and it too does not have TOYOTA dealers in its data base.

However, you can fix that problem by loading custom POI's from POI-FACTORY:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/15071

Nothing is as perfect as you want it to be,,,,

--
I have seen the future and it is now!

Garmin

I recently purchased a Garmin GVN 53 to use in conjunction with the display screen in my Toyota Prius. It replaced my Magellan 4040. I wish I had stayed with the Magellan. The only POI's it finds are those nearby. It won't accept another town when I enter it. It won't let me add custom POI's either. Garmin customer support is non existent.

--
I prefer beating a dead horse, the live ones fight back!

Give It Time

While upgrading many of my gadgets every now and then I have decided to change brands, and everytime I felt I had made a big mistake. We get used to the way something works and when we get a different one it seems to take a week or so to realise the new device has lots of cool things the previous one didn't. But I will give you that Garmins reliance on Navteq maps, will eventually cause it to lose business. Hopefully Navteq/Nokia will have an epiphany and start working a little harder on a better product. And when it comes to pre-loaded POI's all makers are guilty of having missing or out of date POI's and they should all take the time to keep them updated b/c they use them as a major selling point.

disapointment

I'm particularly disappointed about the POIs in my new nivi 250. I lacks a grocery store near my house that has been there a few years now, but does list ones from the same chain farther away. Garmin is apparently very slow and sloppy about keeping this data current, all the more shocking since they do indeed charge the people who are in there for being listed.

And of course they do use the POI data as a selling point, so realistically they not only charge those listed but they charge us too. Hard to justify it not being up to date (within reason for the map version) or kept current by free on-line updates.

Not Every POI Is Included

The built in database only contains something like 9 million POI's. So the built in database cannot possibly list every POI in existence. In fact, I don't believe any manufacturer provides a GPS with a complete POI database.

That is one of the reasons this site exists.

Go back to TomTom if you can!

mourton wrote:

While upgrading many of my gadgets every now and then I have decided to change brands, and everytime I felt I had made a big mistake. We get used to the way something works and when we get a different one it seems to take a week or so to realise the new device has lots of cool things the previous one didn't. But I will give you that Garmins reliance on Navteq maps, will eventually cause it to lose business. Hopefully Navteq/Nokia will have an epiphany and start working a little harder on a better product. And when it comes to pre-loaded POI's all makers are guilty of having missing or out of date POI's and they should all take the time to keep them updated b/c they use them as a major selling point.

Well this is how it works, TomTom owns it's own maps, Garmin does not. it don't get any easier to understand than that. TomTom will only get the newest of maps and POI available, TomTom's competition gets seconds. Same is true with Garmin and Navteq, my Navigons POIs are much better than my Garmins. Navigon get the new and everyone else gets seconds.
This is the main reason I just sold a Nuvi 270 with out even openning the box, not even interested in the Nuvi line even a little bit.

I myself am waiting to see the next line Garmin brings out to see if I even stay with them. I might just jump to TomTom and check them out for a while, I like the Idea of the GPSr manufacturer also being the map owner, similar to my Navigon.

--
Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

Sad

So long as Garmin gets all those great reviews every time, I guess it has little incentive to improve its products, especially the POI database. Granted that not all POIs can be included, some that are missing in Garmins feature in other receivers. Yet, Garmin is full of outdated POIs which it keeps marketing. What is the use of those zillion POIs when the ones where I live are not on the device? Sure, one can get POIs from the site but we are not paying those huge sums (at least for me) for those devices so we could be searching for POIs all around. What if POI Factory does not exist? Many would get lost looking for outdated POIs. At what point does POI Factory send a bill to Garmin for how much this increases the value of Garmin's products? That should be some tonnes of money for the site.

yea, but ...

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

The built in database only contains 9 million POI's (according to Garmin). So the built in database cannot possibly list every POI in existence.

Clearly no GPS maker can anticipate what points might be of interest to anyone. There is a great need for custom POIs like the ones found here.

But there are some strange things going on at Garmin. If they do anticipate a category, such as grocery stores, and particular if they also include POIs for other stores in the same chain in the database, then it is not unreasonable to expect them to include a store that has been open for at least 3 years (and that the chain knew would be open even before that).

Garmin support came out and stated to me yesterday that they do charge businesses for inclusion in the POIs (something that I knew but was surprised that he would say even when I didn't ask). That makes one have to consider how useful your POIs are. Say you run out of gas and think to use your GPS to determint the nearest station to walk to. If you beleve the list of stations to be reasonably complete then you may act differently than if you understand there may be closer stations that didn't want to pay to be listed. Of course, this applies other times too, you may well avoid more cost conscious stores if you depend too much on a "paid for inclusion POI list", and that policy of requiring payment doesn't well serve the end user (Garmin customer).

Something even stranger about the POIs is that if I search all Garmin POI close to my house, I come up with a number of very pointless listings. One even claims to be an Apple Computer Store off in a residential subdivision, and many other home based businesses that don't have a store front or show room seem to show up. I don't think this serves the Garmin consumer at all. Why show such points? Sure, they might have paid Garmin a few bucks for inclusion in a POI list (although I can't really understand why they would), but it's not a service to Garmin customers, and if POI space is finite we would be much better of with that space used for real POIs than bogus mom-and-pop home operations that don't have a real store we can visit. Previous posts in this thread show there are plenty of pretty major location missing that most Garmin customers are likely to agree would be of far more value to the Garmin customer, the people who are the reason these POI lists exist for in the first place.

.

I think what confuses a lot of people is that they don't understand that the built in POIs were never designed to be all inclusive. The built in POIs only contain a sampling of POIs for each category. So if you are in a strange place you can at least get directions to a restaurant or a store or a gas station.

The built in POIs aren't designed to replace the white pages/yellow pages.

POIs

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

I think what confuses a lot of people is that they don't understand that the built in POIs were never designed to be all inclusive. The built in POIs only contain a sampling of POIs for each category. So if you are in a strange place you can at least get directions to a restaurant or a store or a gas station.

The built in POIs aren't designed to replace the white pages/yellow pages.

Well Said!

--
Paul..... Nuvi 765T

Navteq supplys the same map data base to all manufacturer's

BobDee wrote:

I myself am waiting to see the next line Garmin brings out to see if I even stay with them. I might just jump to TomTom and check them out for a while, I like the Idea of the GPSr manufacturer also being the map owner, similar to my Navigon.

Navteq is owned by Nokia and neither Navigon nor Garmin have any connection to Navteq other than they buy the same identical map database from them. After seeing you post a number of times that Navigon owns or is a part of Navteq and Navigon gets more up tp date maps than anyone else I contacted Navteq and asked them directly if they have any association with any GPS manufacturer other than Nokia and there answer was no.

I contacted Navteq and asked if the maps that they supply to any one manufacturer are more up to date and different from any other Manufacturer they supply. They told me that the digital map data base that they supply to all the GPS Manufacturer's and Yahoo Maps are identical and the only difference that will be seen depends on how that maufacturer has designed their systems. They told me that they are owned by Nokia but operate completely independent of any GPS manufacturer.

Quote:
"Navteq is a Chicago, Illinois-based provider of Geographic Information Systems (GIS) data and is a dominant company in providing the base electronic maps. The company is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Nokia but operates independently."

--
GM Built-in Navigation system - Samsung S6 Edge+ Smartphone with Garmin Viago, Google Maps & HERE Apps

re: Navteq Supplys The Same.......

I think part of the confusion comes from the fact that Navigon fairly recently purchased a small part of Navteq's software business. This of course does not make Navteq a part of Navigon. I believe Navteq could buy and sell Navigon many times over, even before Nokia purchased them.

.

rjrsw wrote:

I contacted Navteq and asked if the maps that they supply to any one manufacturer are more up to date and different from any other Manufacturer they supply. They told me that the digital map data base that they supply to all the GPS Manufacturer's and Yahoo Maps are identical and the only difference that will be seen depends on how that maufacturer has designed their systems. They told me that they are owned by Nokia but operate completely independent of any GPS manufacturer.

Unless you spoke with a senior officer of the company I would take what they told you with a grain of salt.

The only way to truly confirm this is to test a Navigon against a Garmin. If both manufacturers are indeed provided the same data then both units would contain the same street data.

re: Navteq Supplys The Same.......

grush wrote:

I think part of the confusion comes from the fact that Navigon fairly recently purchased a small part of Navteq's software business. This of course does not make Navteq a part of Navigon. I believe Navteq could buy and sell Navigon many times over, even before Nokia purchased them.

That is true in 2006 Navigon acquired Navteq's navigation software business and they supply OEM operating software for the navigation, wireless and automotive markets. Navteq kept all of the digital map database business. Navteq supplys the map database to a number of manufacturers including the following:
Garmin
Dell
Delphi
HP
JVC
Magellan
Navigon
Nextar
BMW
Ford
Chrysler

I wish that Garmin was using the Tele Atlas maps. They appear, from what I have seen, to be a lot more current and complete. My subdivision and the one next to me have been completed for 5 to 10 years and they are on TeleAtlas but not Navteq's current maps. I have found a lot of things around Tucson that show on TeleAtlas but not Navteq.

--
GM Built-in Navigation system - Samsung S6 Edge+ Smartphone with Garmin Viago, Google Maps & HERE Apps

Preloaded POI's

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

I think what confuses a lot of people is that they don't understand that the built in POIs were never designed to be all inclusive. The built in POIs only contain a sampling of POIs for each category. So if you are in a strange place you can at least get directions to a restaurant or a store or a gas station.

The built in POIs aren't designed to replace the white pages/yellow pages.

I agree that the built-ins are not meant to be as complete as the yellow pages. But Garmin et al use their POI's as a major marketing point and I figure the least they can do is keep them reasonbly up tp date for example Krispy Kreme left most of CA 3 yrs ago yet the POI's on my 765 still contain all the local stores. The worst is a propane distributor that has 2 locations when I called to verify (a habit I have gotten into b/c of so many out dated places) they told me they had closed the location I found in the Unit 7 yrs ago.

It would be a pretty stupid move on Navteq's part

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

Unless you spoke with a senior officer of the company I would take what they told you with a grain of salt.

The only way to truly confirm this is to test a Navigon against a Garmin. If both manufacturers are indeed provided the same data then both units would contain the same street data.

It would be a pretty stupid move on Navteq's part to supply the largest GPS map purchaser they have with inferior map data and give the best and most current data to a Company that purchases a small fraction of the maps that Garmin does and then to also believe that Garmin would not find out that they were doing it.

You forget that when Garmin was bidding against TomTom for TeleAtlas that Navteq came to Garmin with a special deal to supply them maps to entice them to recind the bid for TeleAtlas.

Navteq told me that they only have one digital map database for any given area. They sell the same one to everyone big or small. The only difference being that the database is constantly evolving so the map data purchased this month would be more current than last month.

--
GM Built-in Navigation system - Samsung S6 Edge+ Smartphone with Garmin Viago, Google Maps & HERE Apps

What I do

If I know ahead of time that I will be looking for a Toyota dealer in Las Vegas before I leave the house, I would just go to www.maps.live.com on the Internet and type in "Toyota dealers in Las Vegas" and it will list them all. I would then click on the ones I want and click on send to GPS and it will go wireless to my Garmin 780 and will be ready and waiting for me in my MSN favorites folder when I get into the car and plug my Nuvi into the cradle. Works on barber shops too.
Of course if your driving through Las Vegas and your car breaks down and you need a specific Toyota dealer now, your out of luck. Your going to have to find a phone book and get the address.

--
Garmin Nuvi 780

Navteq

rjrsw wrote:

Navteq supplys the map database to a number of manufacturers including the following:

Dell

Dell? I've never see a Dell GPS. Maybe I'm just not thinking straight. Anyone have any idea why Dell would buy from Navteq?

rjrsw wrote:

I wish that Garmin was using the Tele Atlas maps. They appear, from what I have seen, to be a lot more current and complete.

I have read a lot of articles and comments saying that Navteq is much better than Teleatlas in North America and Teleatlas is better in Europe. Unless Teleatlas has really come along in the past year or two.

Navteq vs. Teleatlas

This is a few years old, but an interesting article.

http://www.gpsmagazine.com/2006/07/navteq_vs_teleatlas_which...

Very disapointed with my new Garmin

Frankjake Says : I tried to find these places using name, address and type of business. NOTHING!

Thats Funny Frankjake I tried all of my Garmin units and also Map Source and I don't have any problems finding the addresses of Toyota Dealers in las Vegas NV this is what my units come up with

Desert Toyota
6300 W Sahara Ave
Las Vegas Toyota Dealer

Fletcher Jones Toyota
3175 E Sahara Blvd
Las Vegas Toyota Dealer

Centennial Toyota
6551 Centennial Center Blvd
Las Vegas Toyota Dealer

Findlay Toyota
925 Auto Show Dr
Henderson Toyota Dealer

I dont know what you are doing but mine works just fine
I would'nt own anything but a Garmin

--
Auggie SP2720 , SP C330, Nuvi 650, Nuvi 785T America Moves By Truck

Easy to compare TeleAtlas to NavTeq

grush wrote:

I have read a lot of articles and comments saying that Navteq is much better than Teleatlas in North America and Teleatlas is better in Europe. Unless Teleatlas has really come along in the past year or two.

It's easy to check now. Google Maps is using TeleAtlas and MapQuest is using NavTeq. Search for an address in each, side by side, and compare.

??

auggie wrote:

Frankjake Says : I tried to find these places using name, address and type of business. NOTHING!

Thats Funny Frankjake I tried all of my Garmin units and also Map Source and I don't have any problems finding the addresses of Toyota Dealers in las Vegas NV this is what my units come up with

Desert Toyota
6300 W Sahara Ave
Las Vegas Toyota Dealer

Fletcher Jones Toyota
3175 E Sahara Blvd
Las Vegas Toyota Dealer

Centennial Toyota
6551 Centennial Center Blvd
Las Vegas Toyota Dealer

Findlay Toyota
925 Auto Show Dr
Henderson Toyota Dealer

I dont know what you are doing but mine works just fine
I would'nt own anything but a Garmin

auggie - can you tell us how you found these listings? Because when I type "toyota" into my Nuvi 750 (with 2009 maps) the closest entry for Las Vegas is Stanger Toyota, 1700 Hilton Drive, St. George, UT.

Same Result

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

auggie - can you tell us how you found these listings? Because when I type "toyota" into my Nuvi 750 (with 2009 maps) the closest entry for Las Vegas is Stanger Toyota, 1700 Hilton Drive, St. George, UT.

??I get the same result as GadgetGuy on my 660 loaded with 2008 maps - closest dealer is in St George, UT??

--
Tampa, FL - Garmin nüvi 660 (Software Ver 4.90), 2019.30 CN NA NT maps | Magellan Meridian Gold

My subdivision is on the maps

rjrsw wrote:
grush wrote:

I think part of the confusion comes from the fact that Navigon fairly recently purchased a small part of Navteq's software business. This of course does not make Navteq a part of Navigon. I believe Navteq could buy and sell Navigon many times over, even before Nokia purchased them.

That is true in 2006 Navigon acquired Navteq's navigation software business and they supply OEM operating software for the navigation, wireless and automotive markets. Navteq kept all of the digital map database business. Navteq supplys the map database to a number of manufacturers including the following:
Garmin
Dell
Delphi
HP
JVC
Magellan
Navigon
Nextar
BMW
Ford
Chrysler

I wish that Garmin was using the Tele Atlas maps. They appear, from what I have seen, to be a lot more current and complete. My subdivision and the one next to me have been completed for 5 to 10 years and they are on TeleAtlas but not Navteq's current maps. I have found a lot of things around Tucson that show on TeleAtlas but not Navteq.

I just wanted say after about 2 years they had updated the maps to include my subdivision. It also seems to take 2-3 years for new roads when they by pass towns.

--
John_nuvi_

Navteq vs. Teleatlas

grush wrote:

This is a few years old, but an interesting article.

http://www.gpsmagazine.com/2006/07/navteq_vs_teleatlas_which_one.php

The problem with gpsmagazine.com is that they are so skewed towards Garmin, they can't be considered a neutral source of information.

Here's a less-biased review, IMO:
http://www.gpsreview.net/navteq-vs-tele-atlas/

Krieger.

Comparing maps between manufacturers

You cannot make the assumption that the 2009 maps in Navigon and the 2009 maps in Garmin are from the same vintage. It takes time for Garmin, for instance, to integrate the Navteq maps they purchase into their units. The same can be said for Navigon. Since the maps from Navteq change on a regular basis, the difference can just be a result of when they were purchased.

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:
rjrsw wrote:

I contacted Navteq and asked if the maps that they supply to any one manufacturer are more up to date and different from any other Manufacturer they supply. They told me that the digital map data base that they supply to all the GPS Manufacturer's and Yahoo Maps are identical and the only difference that will be seen depends on how that maufacturer has designed their systems. They told me that they are owned by Nokia but operate completely independent of any GPS manufacturer.

Unless you spoke with a senior officer of the company I would take what they told you with a grain of salt.

The only way to truly confirm this is to test a Navigon against a Garmin. If both manufacturers are indeed provided the same data then both units would contain the same street data.

--
Garmin StreetPilot c530, Mapsource

Navteq vs. Teleatlas

Krieger wrote:

Here's a less-biased review, IMO:
http://www.gpsreview.net/navteq-vs-tele-atlas/

Krieger.

Not to detract from what you said, but Gpsmagazine.com seems to give thorough reviews on both Garmin and other brands they test, listing many cons even with the Garmin units. The owner of the site may be somewhat biased toward Garmin, but that's true for other sites too.

The problem with both the review I posted and the one you did, is both are fairly old. I'd be interested in seeing a new comparison using the latest maps.

Ya think huh

rjrsw wrote:
BobDee wrote:

I myself am waiting to see the next line Garmin brings out to see if I even stay with them. I might just jump to TomTom and check them out for a while, I like the Idea of the GPSr manufacturer also being the map owner, similar to my Navigon.

Navteq is owned by Nokia and neither Navigon nor Garmin have any connection to Navteq other than they buy the same identical map database from them. After seeing you post a number of times that Navigon owns or is a part of Navteq and Navigon gets more up tp date maps than anyone else I contacted Navteq and asked them directly if they have any association with any GPS manufacturer other than Nokia and there answer was no.

I contacted Navteq and asked if the maps that they supply to any one manufacturer are more up to date and different from any other Manufacturer they supply. They told me that the digital map data base that they supply to all the GPS Manufacturer's and Yahoo Maps are identical and the only difference that will be seen depends on how that maufacturer has designed their systems. They told me that they are owned by Nokia but operate completely independent of any GPS manufacturer.

Quote:
"Navteq is a Chicago, Illinois-based provider of Geographic Information Systems (GIS) data and is a dominant company in providing the base electronic maps. The company is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Nokia but operates independently."

I would love to tell you that your information is correct, but no can do. Sometimes the hired help can only read scripts and gets lost if you ask questions not on the paper in front of them.

http://apb.directionsmag.com/archives/2273-NAVTEQ-Becoming-a...

Now I realize Nokia has bought the majority but NAVIGON still has a piece of the pie.

And Garmin 2009 maps are Navteq 2007 maps

--
Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

The link you provided supports exactly what I had said!

BobDee wrote:

I would love to tell you that your information is correct, but no can do. Sometimes the hired help can only read scripts and gets lost if you ask questions not on the paper in front of them.

http://apb.directionsmag.com/archives/2273-NAVTEQ-Becoming-a...

Now I realize Nokia has bought the majority but NAVIGON still has a piece of the pie.

And Garmin 2009 maps are Navteq 2007 maps

The answers I received from Navteq were from their customer relations department in Orem, Utah and were in writing not over the phone and they answered each one of the questions that I had asked. It was not a canned response.

The link you provided above actually supports exactly what I said about the part of Navteq that Navigon bought in 2006 was the navigation software business only, I quote from your link:

"Ed Marcheselli, Director, Software, for NAVTEQ put the sale in context:

After careful evaluation, we determined NAVIGON was in a better position to support and further develop the navigation software business based upon the company's established automotive relationships and proven ability to deliver and support quality products for a diverse customer base."

Please link to some current independent source that backs up your statement that the maps on the Navigon's are a newer Navteq map version then Garmin's. Also the link that shows that Navigon bought anything more than the navigation software business from Navteq in 2006 and still continue to be a active part of the Navteq business as you have suggested above.

It is true that in 2006 Navigon acquired Navteq's navigation software business, but that did not include any of the Map business only the operational software. Navteq kept all of the digital map database business and that part was bought by Nokia in 2007.

Some more current information on Navteq:
In first paragraph of the following link:
"Navteq is a Chicago, Illinois-based provider of Geographic Information Systems (GIS) data and is a dominant company in providing the base electronic maps. The company is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Nokia but operates independently"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAVTEQ

--
GM Built-in Navigation system - Samsung S6 Edge+ Smartphone with Garmin Viago, Google Maps & HERE Apps

2007 maps not suprising

BobDee wrote:

And Garmin 2009 maps are Navteq 2007 maps

Yes, the "2009" maps from Garmin are 2007, however that is due to the naming convention that Garmin uses. The maps were released in April of 2008, and given that Garmin needs several months to integrate and test, they probably purchased them in late 2007. This does not appear to result from collusion between Navigon and Navteq. Within the next several months we should get new maps from Garmin based on past performance.

I have no way to estimate when Navigon purchased their maps, but the appearance could easily accompany a 2008 map purchase, thus currently newer maps in Navigon, but this will most likely change when Garmin makes their next release.

--
Garmin StreetPilot c530, Mapsource