Cities Caught Illegally Tampering With Traffic Lights To Increase Revenue Of Red Light Cameras

 
Quote:

Just last month there was the latest in a rather long line of reports noting that red light cameras tend to increase the number of accidents because people slam on their brakes to stop in time, leading to rear-ending accidents. Time and time again studies have shown that if cities really wanted to make traffic crossings safer there's a very simple way to do so: increase the length of the yellow light and make sure there's a pause before the cross traffic light turns green (this is done in some places, but not in many others). Tragically, it looks like some cities are doing the opposite! Jeff Nolan points out that six US cities have been caught decreasing the length of the yellow light below the legal limits in an effort to catch more drivers running red lights and increasing revenue. This is especially disgusting. These cities are actively putting more people in danger of serious injury or death solely for the sake of raising revenue -- while claiming all along that it's for safety purposes. Is it any surprise that one of the six cities is Dallas? Remember, just last month Dallas decided it wasn't going to install any more red light cameras because fewer tickets had hurt city revenue.

original article(s) at: http://www.leftlanenews.com/six-us-cities-tamper-with-traffi...
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080313/231629539.shtml
and http://techdirt.com/articles/20080410/011257809.shtml

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TomTom One XLS * Contact me about 1200 free print credits *
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Give them the toss

lupo wrote:

It all boils down to us. We allow them to do it so they keep raising the stakes. We need to be more vigilant of our gov. they get away with way too much if you let them.

It's all done in a voting booth, you don't like the job BOZO has done, then you campaign against him or just simply do your part and vote him out.

Every Vote counts, VOTE NEXT TUESDAY!

IF YOU DON'T YOU CAN'T COMPLAIN!

Bob

--
Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

I agree, do your part and vote...

....I also believe in making a stink whenever possible, be it town hall meetings, letters to the editor, or otherwise finding ways to be a rabble rouser. I have been part of, and helped instigate a little, a few humble victories against the county council in my town thru such means.

One bright spot on the horizon, maybe, in my town, is that the budgetary problems of the area may eliminate the red light cameras. Turns out the bureaucratic bumblers here took a potentially money making operation and figured out how to lose money on it. And now that there's a budgetary shortfall, they are talking of saving $80K/year by getting rid of the red light cameras. One can only hope.

Thomas Jefferson said, over 200 years ago, that one of the best ways to help insure democracy continue and meet the needs of the people, is to have a revolution every 25 years. So, as I wrote in a recent Letter to the Editor, do your part to 'Throw the bums out!'

GC

--
Nuvi 350, GPS Map 76CX

yellow light

i think the yellow light should be 4 seconds(at least).

Yellow Light Length

iplayball wrote:

i think the yellow light should be 4 seconds(at least).

I agree - but I'd like to see it rapidly flash during the last second.

Directions?

gwr50 wrote:

North Richland Hills, which is just to the East of Dallas,

Hmmmm, and all this time, I thought North Richland Hills was WEST of Dallas. Oh well.........

yellow lights

Sport Billy wrote:
iplayball wrote:

i think the yellow light should be 4 seconds(at least).

I agree - but I'd like to see it rapidly flash during the last second.

me too!

--
~Jim~ Nuvi-660, & Nuvi-680

yepp

lupo wrote:

It all boils down to us. We allow them to do it so they keep raising the stakes. We need to be more vigilant of our gov. they get away with way too much if you let them.

Amen!

--
nightrider --Nuvi's 660 & 680--

Red Light Camera Signs

I am in the NW burbs or Chicago and I am seeing an abundance of Red Light Camera signs with a orange flag attached, but no cameras ins sight. Are they doing this to try to fool people into thinking there is a camera there?

Can't see the camera

lupo wrote:

I am in the NW burbs or Chicago and I am seeing an abundance of Red Light Camera signs with a orange flag attached, but no cameras ins sight. Are they doing this to try to fool people into thinking there is a camera there?

If they go to hiding the camera, we're all in trouble.

I thought this was a really

I thought this was a really interesting article about the short yellow issue. http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2606.asp

The link at the bottom of the article (http://www.shortyellowlights.com/) is interesting too. I usually stop if I didn't see the light turn yellow because I don't have the opportunity to judge how much time I have to clear the light. Unfortunately, that can sometimes be just as dangerous if the person behind me wanted to run the light and doesn't stop in time.

Signal Light Timing

The following is from the US Department of Transportation, Federal Highway Administration's Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices which is the national FEDERAL standard for traffic control devices including stop lights.

Section 4D.10 Yellow Change and Red Clearance Intervals
Standard:
A yellow signal indication shall be displayed following every CIRCULAR GREEN or GREEN ARROW signal indication.

The exclusive function of the yellow change interval shall be to warn traffic of an impending change in the right-of-way assignment.

The duration of a yellow change interval shall be predetermined.

Guidance:
A yellow change interval should have a duration of approximately 3 to 6 seconds. The longer intervals should be reserved for use on approaches with higher speeds.

Option:
The yellow change interval may be followed by a red clearance interval to provide additional time before conflicting traffic movements, including pedestrians, are released.

Standard:
The duration of a red clearance interval shall be predetermined.

Guidance:
A red clearance interval should have a duration not exceeding 6 seconds.

The complete manual is available at: http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/kno_2003r1r2.htm

A note on reading standards - a shall or must statement is mandatory in order to comply with the standard while a should or may is recommended BUT NOT REQUIRED. From the Federal standpoint, a city or state is in compliance with Federal Law IF the yellow signal light is displayed between a green to red transition. Under the current standard, a yellow can be any duration.

Some cities and states have standards increasing the minimum time above the federal standard, but those are local regulations and subject to change. The formula for setting the duration of a yellow from the Institute of Traffic Engineers (ITE) is a recommendation and not a requirement under the standard. According to the Federal standard the "3 second rule" is not a requirement, only a recommended practice.

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ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

squirrelproductions

squirrelproductions wrote:
Quote:

These cities are actively putting more people in danger of serious injury or death solely for the sake of raising revenue

Is it really the cities? In the DC area, I think they found it was the companies that the cities were leasing the equipment from on a revenue-sharing basis- which means the cities are guilty of a lack of oversight, but not the actual tampering.

Paul

Who's Guilty?

compuwar wrote:

Is it really the cities? In the DC area, I think they found it was the companies that the cities were leasing the equipment from on a revenue-sharing basis- which means the cities are guilty of a lack of oversight, but not the actual tampering.

Paul

The city is responsible. They're the ones that are contracting with these camera companies and paying them tons of money. It is up to them to oversee that the cam company is acting properly. The cities should be specifying the yellow light length, not the cam company. If the city has found a company cheating to increase revenue, they should immediately terminate their contract with that company. There should be terms in the contract to allow this if a cam company is caught cheating.

Yellow light length

grush wrote:
compuwar wrote:

Is it really the cities? In the DC area, I think they found it was the companies that the cities were leasing the equipment from on a revenue-sharing basis- which means the cities are guilty of a lack of oversight, but not the actual tampering.

Paul

The city is responsible. They're the ones that are contracting with these camera companies and paying them tons of money. It is up to them to oversee that the cam company is acting properly. The cities should be specifying the yellow light length, not the cam company. If the city has found a company cheating to increase revenue, they should immediately terminate their contract with that company. There should be terms in the contract to allow this if a cam company is caught cheating.

With modern traffic signal controllers, it is difficult to set the yellow for a single light unless it is taken out of the master system. In most cities the signals are controlled out of a traffic operations center where a computer system sets and synchronizes the traffic lights along a particular route. If someone goes to the traffic controller cabinet and puts the signal in manual mode, then using a portable computer they can change the timing. Otherwise the timing comes from the center and all the signals connected to that master change.

Long story short - it is the state or local officials that set the timing on the signals and the camera people can do nothing but "suggest."

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ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

Hmm...

Didn't know that about the system. In MD the yellow light varies so much. Some places the yellow is no existent and others it lasts a really long time. Montgomery County really needs to get its act together when doing these cameras. They vary so much.

These cams risk safety for

These cams risk safety for the sake of the all-mighty dollar... plain and simple!!!

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nightrider --Nuvi's 660 & 680--

re: a_user

Thanks for clarifying that, a_user.

It would seem that some of the cities could be in collusion with the cam companies to generate more revenue.

yes

grush wrote:

Thanks for clarifying that, a_user.

It would seem that some of the cities could be in collusion with the cam companies to generate more revenue.

Shure looks that way!

--
~Jim~ Nuvi-660, & Nuvi-680

Another issue

I do think anyone should run red lights or speed, but I feel there is another issue to the use of redlight and speed cameras and that is the issue of the burden of proof being vehicle owner. With all red light and speed camera tickets the owner of the vehicle is presumed to be the operator unless they can prove otherwise. What happened to the burden of proof being on the prosecution? Granted they are not criminal cases, but are traffic ordinance or law cases, but I see no where in the constitution that places the burden of proof on the accused.

Nonsense

What nonsense. While I suspect there may be a rare exception, I do not believe any cities actively reduce yellow light time, certainly on a real time basis, to increase revenues. The cameras indicate how long the light was yellow and how long it has been red when a vehicle enters the intersection.

I have seen some people (who should not have licenses) actually argue in court they could not have run a red light and they have been a safe driver for over 55 years. (That person when through the intersection at 40 MPH, 18 seconds AFTER the 4 second yellow light had turned red).

DONT RUN RED LIGHTS!!!!! IT IS UNSAFE AND PUTS OTHER PEOPLE AT SIGNIFICANT RISK.

Reality -

dkstl wrote:

What nonsense. While I suspect there may be a rare exception, I do not believe any cities actively reduce yellow light time, certainly on a real time basis, to increase revenues. The cameras indicate how long the light was yellow and how long it has been red when a vehicle enters the intersection.

I have seen some people (who should not have licenses) actually argue in court they could not have run a red light and they have been a safe driver for over 55 years. (That person when through the intersection at 40 MPH, 18 seconds AFTER the 4 second yellow light had turned red).

DONT RUN RED LIGHTS!!!!! IT IS UNSAFE AND PUTS OTHER PEOPLE AT SIGNIFICANT RISK.

If you think it cannot happen then you have lost your grip on reality. It has happened and I am sure it will happen again in the future. Cities/states/counties/whoever is controlling the cameras and the traffic signals can and have modfied yellow lights to increase revenue. If they were all about making the road safer they would increase the length of the yellow light or institute a "standoff" period of ~3 seconds.

When red light cameras take the picture

I read an article about how Red light cameras work and when they go off. They can tell by an electromagnetic field they put in the pavement at the start of an intersection. When the light turns red it can tell if your car leaves the electromagnetic field and then trips the camera and takes your picture. So if your into the intersection , not behind the crosswalk area then you should be ok and not get a ticket. That is why they change the yellow light timing shorter to catch you before you get by that magnetic field. I would suppose if you stop your car half way into the intersection the camera would be tripped because the magnetic field changed. The cameras do not show the yellow light, etc... they only trip after you go through the magnetic field. shock

WarrenP Garmin c340

Article

iambe wrote:

I thought this was a really interesting article about the short yellow issue. http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2606.asp

I was just going to post that article.

From the Article wrote:

The Texas Transportation Institute study also found that shorter yellows generate a 110 percent jump in the number of tickets, but at the cost of safety. Increasing the yellow one second above the recommended minimum cut crashes by 40 percent.

Choosing cash over saftey is ridiculous.

What's the National Standard?

Every state in the country gets Federal Dollars for Transportation. Is there a DOT standard for minimum Red, Yellow and Green light durations?

We all go thru intersections with the magnetic loops under the pavement that stop the crossing traffic. We also go through intersections with the sensors for emergency vehicles. Each one has a varied time depending on the syncronizing of each light along that stretch of road.

If there is a National Standard/Minimum Light Duration, you may have a defense in court. If you blow through the light, and it's red, the fine should be trippled.

--
Jihad THIS!! Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Tale Of The 3-Second Yellow Light

Interesting CBS Story from 2003.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/12/eveningnews/main55...

Two days after CBS News taped this interview - and a year after Irving first complained, the county set all the lights on the stretch at 3.5 seconds. The county keeps to its belief the cameras are for safety -- so it plans to keep the $1 million.

--
Jihad THIS!! Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Increased Yellow Light Times Make Ticket Cameras Unnecessary

--
Jihad THIS!! Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Minimum Yellow Light Duration

Vandal wrote:

Every state in the country gets Federal Dollars for Transportation. Is there a DOT standard for minimum Red, Yellow and Green light durations?

I quoted from the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices earlier in this thread or a similar one which is the Federal standard for traffic control devices. The MUTCD states there shall be a yellow light to signal the transition period from green to red - nothing about duration. The manual can be seen/downloaded from the FHWA.DOT.GOV site.

--
ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

Right on

I agree one hundred percent... Slow diown and enjoy the ride...I was out today in Indy and almost got hit three times by inconsiderate drivers. indyjim

After we elect them... they

After we elect them... they appear to throw safety to the dogs for the sake of money-grubing their public!!

--
nightrider --Nuvi's 660 & 680--

The logic which follows,

The logic which follows, then, is to ask the question:
--Why oh Why-- do we keep re-electing them?!?

--
nightrider --Nuvi's 660 & 680--

Diebold / Premier

nightrider wrote:

The logic which follows, then, is to ask the question:
--Why oh Why-- do we keep re-electing them?!?

Dear NR,

Perhaps it is because those elected officials bought voting machines that were made by Diebold (which is currently hiding under the name Premier).

david

--
nüvi 1490T, V1, Sanyo PRO-700a, maps, sunglasses, hot co-pilot, the open road

Maybe so - -

davidwynyard wrote:
nightrider wrote:

The logic which follows, then, is to ask the question:
--Why oh Why-- do we keep re-electing them?!?

Dear NR,

Perhaps it is because those elected officials bought voting machines that were made by Diebold (which is currently hiding under the name Premier).

david

That may have something to do with it, alright.

--
~Jim~ Nuvi-660, & Nuvi-680

Orange Flags on red light cameras

"Two orange flags have been installed with signs warning of the red-light cameras at Hicks and Quentin. Lilly said the flags are a temporary measure because the photo-enforced intersections are so new."

http://theexpiredmeter.com/?p=1037

Please submit red-light cameras with orange flags too!!!

Yea, the orange flags will

Yea, the orange flags will eventually be gone.

--
~Jim~ Nuvi-660, & Nuvi-680

Fines fraud hits Italian drivers

.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7862893.stm

"More than 100 people, including police officers, are being investigated as part of the fraud . . . lights were rigged to change from yellow to red in three seconds instead of the regulation five or six seconds . . . scheme's inventor is now under house arrest . . . ."

--
nüvi 1490T, V1, Sanyo PRO-700a, maps, sunglasses, hot co-pilot, the open road

Good...!!!

davidwynyard wrote:

.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7862893.stm

"More than 100 people, including police officers, are being investigated as part of the fraud . . . lights were rigged to change from yellow to red in three seconds instead of the regulation five or six seconds . . . scheme's inventor is now under house arrest . . . ."

Good, take all of these fraudster-people out!!!

--
~Jim~ Nuvi-660, & Nuvi-680

---AMEN!!!

jimcaulfield wrote:
davidwynyard wrote:

.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7862893.stm

"More than 100 people, including police officers, are being investigated as part of the fraud . . . lights were rigged to change from yellow to red in three seconds instead of the regulation five or six seconds . . . scheme's inventor is now under house arrest . . . ."

Good, take all of these fraudster-people out!!!

---AMEN!!!

--
nightrider --Nuvi's 660 & 680--

This is big time fraud

davidwynyard wrote:

. . . scheme's inventor is now under house arrest . . . ."

Maybe we can get this guy a room with Jeff Skilling.

--
Nuvi 265WT & Edge 705

Why not - -

Why not - -

--
~Jim~ Nuvi-660, & Nuvi-680

fun stuff...

Rider1 wrote:

Our biggest concern is the people who pull out in front of you when you are close to them. Seems to be an popular activity to scare other drivers. As you are casually driving along, zinnggggg, out from a driveway or stop sign comes another car forcing you to brake... fun stuff...

That does seem to be on the increase. I always thought it was due to their clueless disposition, and a lack of consideration for others.

I did have two teenagers block me in when I was exiting a parking lot once. They just sat there and laughed. I may have reduced myself to their level by flooring the big v8 in my pickup just to see if they could get out of the way on time. The tires just spun in place, and the truck didn't really move anywhere, but they took off, making sure I wasn't gong to catch up to them.

--
Nuvi 265WT & Edge 705

Not Just in America

Seems to be worldwide, check out the following:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/02/italian-red-...

but of course the US is no exception:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2008/04/red-light-camera...

but based on those articles there do seem to be a number of possibilities to defend against a red light ticket.

these things...

gpsaccount wrote:

. . .

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/02/italian-red-...

. . .

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2008/04/red-light-camera...

. . .

but based on those articles there do seem to be a number of possibilities to defend against a red light ticket.

--These things are likely not as easily fought (against) as they should be, but at least this gives folks a place to start, thank you for posting it-

--
nightrider --Nuvi's 660 & 680--

New Law

The CBS station in Dallas (cbs11tv.com) is reporting a new bill in the Texas legislature that would ban red light cameras state wide. Naturally, the cities oppose the bill saying they provide safety and revenue. Yes they admit it is a money maker (AKA a tax on select individuals). It will be interesting to see if anything comes of the bill. Oh yes, the TV station also listed which cities were making money and those who have lost money, yes some cities are in the red with the red light camera programs. Guess the cities in the red did get a good contract with the redlight camera company.

--
Nuvi 750 and 755T

Glad to hear someone has the

Glad to hear someone has the common sense to try and outlaw these poor-excuse for safety [red light cameras]!!!

--
~Jim~ Nuvi-660, & Nuvi-680

YES!!!

jimcaulfield wrote:

Glad to hear someone has the common sense to try and outlaw these poor-excuse for safety [red light cameras]!!!

Yeah, amen!!!

--
nightrider --Nuvi's 660 & 680--

camera

JFCTexas wrote:

The CBS station in Dallas (cbs11tv.com) is reporting a new bill in the Texas legislature that would ban red light cameras state wide. Naturally, the cities oppose the bill saying they provide safety and revenue. Yes they admit it is a money maker (AKA a tax on select individuals). It will be interesting to see if anything comes of the bill. Oh yes, the TV station also listed which cities were making money and those who have lost money, yes some cities are in the red with the red light camera programs. Guess the cities in the red did get a good contract with the redlight camera company.

I think in general this is good thing to ban.

he net holds your car until you deposit $300 on the spot.

Please don;t give the idiots any great ideas. Just thinking of that image reminds me of The Road Runner and Wily Coycote......

Its always about the money......

Short yellow is dangerous

By decreasing the yellow light is as dangerous as the running of the relight. People start to drive afraid of intersections, because they never know if they have time to clear the intersection in time and safely.

I can see red light and speed cams to be ATM's not to dispense but to collect.

There are lots of complains of being ticketed with out having done a traffic infraction. If you go to the you tube you can see the problem is not only in NA but all over the world.

--
Gps! ask where to go and get there! Best of all, what we need is to have accurate pois to reach all destinations

Decreasing yellows?!?!?

Decreasing yellow-light times is an insane way to bilk the tax-payers even more, at the expense of everyone's safety... and should be made a criminal-offense by Federal-law!!!

--
~Jim~ Nuvi-660, & Nuvi-680

Yellow shorten

jimcaulfield wrote:

Decreasing yellow-light times is an insane way to bilk the tax-payers even more, at the expense of everyone's safety... and should be made a criminal-offense by Federal-law!!!

It is not only insane but lucrative for those who manage the never ending amount of cams being installed.Contracts to managed the cams should be disclosed to the public.
See the link below and you are going to be informed that is possible to shorten the yellow light.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/02/italian-red-...

If you need to go to the welfare they make you go through loops and loops, but to award contracts to take your money they don`t follow protocol.

--
Gps! ask where to go and get there! Best of all, what we need is to have accurate pois to reach all destinations
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