Weird things I noticed about my 660 while on vacation

 

This was the first time I've used my 660 in an airliner and I noticed that when I had it in off road mode for "as the crow flies" navigation, the magenta "vector" didn't do what I expected. Normally, with the ground and aviation GPSrs I've used, the "tail" of the vector remains "rubber banded" to the vehicle (i.e. aircraft) when a "direct to" type waypoint (destination) is selected. Not the case with my 660. For the pilots out there with IFR navigation experience, you'll recall that the aircraft "pulls" the tail of the VOR needle as that's where the aircraft is symbolically represented on the NAV, RMI, BDHI, multi-function, etc displays. The head of the needle (or vector) always points directly toward the tuned station or, if using GPS, selected waypoint. I'm not going to go into homing versus tracking (x-wind component) since that's beyond the scope of this discussion, but that's how it works. Instead the 660 pinned the "tail" of the vector to the exact spot on the ground when a "where to" calculation was made direct to the airport (in my case, KPHX aka Sky Harbor, Phoenix). When the aircraft turned off the "direct to" vector as the pilot intercepted an airway, final approach course, etc, the "tail" of the vector remained pinned to the ground and did not stay attached to the aircraft. Pretty useless. Even an off road/hiking GPS will "pin the tail" of the vector/arrow to the vehicle so you ALWAYS know the exact heading and track to take to the selected waypoint/destination. In the 660's case, it appears that if you venture off the "magenta brick road", you need to do another "where to" calculation to get the arrow back to direct from the vehicle to the selected destination. Weird.

Next, I pretty much never use the bluetooth cell phone function on my 660, but I know it works, er...worked. I hadn't messed around with it since the 4.2 firmware update and, wouldn't ya know it... A relative of mine over Christmas was really interested in the hands off feature. Now, in the past, my 660 paired up perfectly with my Verizon v3C RAZR (Motorola) phone just fine and imported the phone book correctly. Now, when I tried to enable the bluetooth setting on the 660, it just went to the grey "enabling bluetooth" screen and sat there for ever...locked up. Didn't matter whether I had the phone on/off, bluetooth turned on or not. Seems the 4.2 firmware update zorched that function out of my 660. Fortunately, it's no big loss to me, but it's always embarrassing when you try to show off something and it doesn't work the ONE time you want it to! mad

Edited to add concerning the above bluetooth issue... I just found out that there was a bluetooth update via the Garmin Webupdater. Downloaded and installed it (flawless) and now it works perfectly after re-pairing the phone to the GPSr. Good one on Garmin!

Other than that, it performed very admirably. I was amazed at the detailed map data of some very obscure dirt roads that were in the base map, especially around the Prescott and Sedona areas of central/northern Arizona. The factory POI database was pretty adequate all around, also. I even got a couple of red light and speed camera alerts when traveling up from Phoenix to Prescott via HWY 69. I didn't have the time, but maybe someone who's local to that area can update the file as there were a LOT more cameras. One at every light through Prescott Valley. This was completely new from when I was there roughly 3.5 years ago...

It was updating Bluetooth

I have seen that on mine as well. Mine was updating the bluetooth firmware, but the update status screen was covered up by the Enabling Bluetooth Screen, giving the illusion that the 660 was locked up. If you left it long enough, it would have completed the update and enabled bluetooth properly.

Hmmm... Strange. The

Hmmm... Strange. The latest Garmin bluetooth update installed on the next boot up and showed the status bar on the splash screen. Only took a few seconds. After that, the bluetooth was default set to be enabled and worked fine.

Can't speak for Garmin, but...

siennaot1 wrote:

{snip}
Normally, with the ground and aviation GPSrs I've used, the "tail" of the vector remains "rubber banded" to the vehicle (i.e. aircraft) when a "direct to" type waypoint (destination) is selected. Not the case with my 660.
{snip}
In the 660's case, it appears that if you venture off the "magenta brick road", you need to do another "where to" calculation to get the arrow back to direct from the vehicle to the selected destination.
{snip}

I think this is because of the difference in purpose of the units. An automotive unit is expecting you to conform to the road structure. It would not be important to most of us from what direction we approach the restaurant, just that we get there. I could see where there might be some slight importance to a pilot that he approach his destination from a certain direction. grin Seriously, I think most of us would want our GPS's to indicate the direction of travel on the road that we are travelling, not pointing towards the destination. The magenta brick road shows the direction to our destination. It's up to us to click our heels and follow it.

I only just yesterday used my Nuvi 350 in off-road mode and noticed what you are talking about, though. It just drew a straight line from source to destination and did not ever recalculate even though I walked a full block off the route. Seemed like it should have recalculated at some point, just like it does when in on-road mode.

True

johnc wrote:

I think this is because of the difference in purpose of the units. An automotive unit is expecting you to conform to the road structure.

Very true. However, I explicitly stated that I had the GPSr in "off road" mode to allow "as the crow flies" navigation. This eliminates the road conformity and should place the unit in a mode where there are no obstacles, roads, etc (basically on a blank sheet). In "off road" mode, the unit should ALWAYS pin the tail of the vector to the vehicle and the head of the vector pinned to the selected waypoint. Obviously, this is not going to work that way in car/motorcycle mode and it shouldn't because road navigation is what we're after in that setting.

Think about the guy in the desert dunes that wants to be able go "direct" back to his camp site or base station. If he calculates his "vector" back to base and continues to have fun and blissfully pound the dunes for a couple of hours, the initial calculation is useless and he'll have to do it again. A minor annoyance, but even the cheapie hand held GPSrs (non auto) provide instantaneous heading and track information from present position (i.e. vehicle or on foot) to a selected waypoint.

me too

siennaot1 wrote:

Hmmm... Strange. The latest Garmin bluetooth update installed on the next boot up and showed the status bar on the splash screen. Only took a few seconds. After that, the bluetooth was default set to be enabled and worked fine.

Last update, mine as well. The update before, I had my Bluetooth turned off. I used web updater and updated bluetooth. But it did not update Bluetooth until I turned Bluetooth on in the options. That is when I got the grey "Enabling Bluetooth" screen with the update status behind it.

Well, I'm glad they got it

Well, I'm glad they got it fixed. Even though I don't use the feature, I absolutely HATE being denied the capability that I paid for. smile

I Use the Feature

and love it. Wouldn't be without especially on long drives. My one complaint is still that I have to wake up Treo 700p before it will pair with the 660. sad

--
Bob: My toys: Nüvi 1390T, Droid X2, Nook Color (rooted), Motorola Xoom, Kindle 2, a Yo-Yo and a Slinky. Gotta have toys.

Excellent illustration

siennaot1 wrote:

..Think about the guy in the desert dunes that wants to be able go "direct" back to his camp site or base station. If he calculates his "vector" back to base and continues to have fun and blissfully pound the dunes for a couple of hours, the initial calculation is useless and he'll have to do it again. A minor annoyance, but even the cheapie hand held GPSrs (non auto) provide instantaneous heading and track information from present position (i.e. vehicle or on foot) to a selected waypoint.

Excellent illustration of why Garmin messed this one up royal. I agree it was a minor annoyance until my buddy with his dune buggy said "WHAT?!!!" wink

Garmin should have this one fixed. From a programming point of view it would be such a piece of cake to fix.

rlallos wrote:

and love it. Wouldn't be without especially on long drives. My one complaint is still that I have to wake up Treo 700p before it will pair with the 660. sad

That is a problem with the Treo 700p. Make sure you have the latest OS build downloaded. That bug with the bluetooth in Palm 700's is known and I believe was fixed. Steve Sinclair is a Palm Senior Product Manager called them "bluetooth Hardware limitations" in a response at TreoCentral. http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1016-1.htm Here is the link to get the fix if you are not current. You need to get the one from your specific carrier. I hope it helps.
http://www.palm.com/us/support/downloads/

--
nüvi 680, nüvi 770, Garmin Mobile XT, etc...

Got 'Em

dcoffing wrote:
siennaot1 wrote:

..Think about the guy in the desert dunes that wants to be able go "direct" back to his camp site or base station. If he calculates his "vector" back to base and continues to have fun and blissfully pound the dunes for a couple of hours, the initial calculation is useless and he'll have to do it again. A minor annoyance, but even the cheapie hand held GPSrs (non auto) provide instantaneous heading and track information from present position (i.e. vehicle or on foot) to a selected waypoint.

Excellent illustration of why Garmin messed this one up royal. I agree it was a minor annoyance until my buddy with his dune buggy said "WHAT?!!!" wink

Garmin should have this one fixed. From a programming point of view it would be such a piece of cake to fix.

rlallos wrote:

and love it. Wouldn't be without especially on long drives. My one complaint is still that I have to wake up Treo 700p before it will pair with the 660. sad

That is a problem with the Treo 700p. Make sure you have the latest OS build downloaded. That bug with the bluetooth in Palm 700's is known and I believe was fixed. Steve Sinclair is a Palm Senior Product Manager called them "bluetooth Hardware limitations" in a response at TreoCentral. http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1016-1.htm Here is the link to get the fix if you are not current. You need to get the one from your specific carrier. I hope it helps.
http://www.palm.com/us/support/downloads/

Yep, I have all the latest updates. No joy.

--
Bob: My toys: Nüvi 1390T, Droid X2, Nook Color (rooted), Motorola Xoom, Kindle 2, a Yo-Yo and a Slinky. Gotta have toys.

Track and destination

Sorry to burst your bubble but an aviation GPS works the same way. The course line does not change as you fly off course. Also, a VOR radio in an airplane doesn't point to the station unless you are on course. Even then, it doesn’t point but the needle will be centered when you are over the course line "to" or "from" the station you set. I think you are referring to an ADF, or automatic direction finder. It has a needle that always points to the station but hardly any aircraft still have an ADF. They are pretty much phased out these days and even some VOR stations will start to be decommisioned soon.

With an aviation GPS the course line is drawn from point A to B and it remains that way. Most of the time, this is what you want, to follow a route of your planning and return to that route if you get off course. If you deviate from course, and would rather draw a new line from where you are now to your destination, instead of flying back towards the original line, you have to press one or two buttons for a new GOTO. I do it all the time when flying.

In actual practice, my route is usually made up of several waypoints. Along the way, I may decide to skip the next one in line and go direct to the waypoint that comes next, and this is a simple matter. It is also a simple matter, at any point along the route, to choose a "direct to" route from my location to my final destination, or anywhere else.

Aviation GPS also have a "Nearest" button that you can press to take you right to the nearest airport to your location. Comes in handy should the engine stop and you are now piloting a glider plane. It is also handy for when my wife suddenly announces she needs to use the bathroom and can't wait the 30 minutes the GPS is showing we are from our planned fuel stop.

At the same time, aviation GPS will have other displays that point to the destination always just like an ADF, and will show an intercept heading to get back on course and a lot of other nifty navigation information you will never see on an auto GPS.

My 260W Nuvi draws the line when navigating off-road and that is it. It doesn't change or stay attached to the car icon (really an airplane icon for my NUVI). Last night I returned home from Chicago to Baltimore. In Chicago, I selected Baltimore as my heading, then went into the menu to change it to off-road. I was surprised to see it was still calculating road directions and realized I needed to change to off-road before selecting my destination. Once I re-selected Baltimore, it drew a straight line and I could see how the pilot deviated from this direct route as we flew east. You shouldn't expect the line to be always from your present location for an automotive GPS.

A good hiking GPS like my Magellan Meridian Platinum will give you a choice of how the track line is drawn and you can set it to show "current location to destination" at all times while at the same time, maintaining your original track line from departure to destination point, but there are better methods for GPS navigation while hiking. You can't ever follow a straight line unless you are walking across a flat field with no trees or water.

David Krump, Frederick MD

--
Garmin: Dezl 770 Nuvi 780, Nuvi 260W, GPSMAP 295, GPSMAP 396, GNC250-XL Magellan: Meridian Platinum, GPS-315 (first GPS in 1999)

No.

siennaot1 wrote:

...the unit should ALWAYS pin the tail of the vector to the vehicle...

Think about the guy in the desert dunes that wants to be able go "direct" back to his camp site or base station. If he calculates his "vector" back to base and continues to have fun and blissfully pound the dunes for a couple of hours, the initial calculation is useless and he'll have to do it again.

Yea, he has that _option_, and can do another "goto" whenever he wants. OTOH, if someone is interested in knowing their cross track error, then the behavior is as desired. If it constantly adjusted the course line to match the actual position, they would have no way to know their XTE.

The behavior is correct for a general purpose GPS, since either need can be accomodated.