here's a question for you about cars

no, has nothing to do with quality

We bought a 2023 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E the high end with everything.
It has a pole to hold up the hood.
The truck is very high end.
Well I had to say all the above out of self-defense as I want to keep thinking my truck is quality. It is a very nice truck.
I started just yesterday trying to figure a way to get custom poi's on it. Probably an impossible but it's worth a try.
Mary

Not sure on them being a sign of a quality vehicle. As far as having them I prefer having the rod as it is more than likely to never need replacing. I've had vehicles with hydraulic struts holding up a rear window and after a (somewhat long) while they go bad.

The weight of the hood can be a factor causing the choice of gas struts. In general, the heavier the hood, the more likely it will require struts, as opposed to a rod. For much the same reason, a pair of struts are used, instead of a single strut.

I actually prefer the struts and don’t find replacement a nuisance. But being a mechanical engineer, I “DIY” on many items. On my 21-year old Porsche, I probably spent more time on the computer ordering after market replacements than I did at the actual task of replacement. I not only save money, but I avoid taking the car to a shop or dealer. As an example, the local Acura dealer recently offered to replace the cabin air filter and engine air filter for $129 parts and labor. I did it myself for about $35 in parts (OEM) and 20 minutes time. I probably could have done it in 15 minutes as there is a bit of a trick on the engine air filter which I had to “discover”.

I’m also aware of some people that think the prop rod is a safety issue in that bumping it can cause the hood to fall. That has never happened to me but it has been years since owning a car with the prop rod.

Story 1: My old man described designing radios pre WWII. 1) An engineer designs a radio according to normal engineering practices. 2) A technician removes different combinations of parts to the point where the radio doesn’t work. 3) The cheapest working configuration goes into production. Of course it must meet the minimum specifications, but I don’t know how rigorus they were then.

Story 2: I just read the biography of Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson. There are episodes of Musk standing on the assembly line and ordering removal of parts of SpaceX rockets, Teslas, and whatever the equivalent of assemply line is for X, OpenAI, and Neuralink. Paraphrasing, he said “occasionally I’ll go too far and have to put something back”. Don't tell the astronauts.

Engineering is always engineering to a cost, often but not always lowest cost.

Back on topic: I suspect that what you are calling hydraulic struts are actually gas struts. I never associated them with high or low quality. Picking on a single case, I have them for the aluminum hood of my F-350. I wonder if it would take a set if it were supported by an off-center rod for appreciable time or in a wind.

The hydraulic supports are being eliminated as they become somewhat of a hazard in the event of a collision and vehicle fire.

They get hot and turn into high-speed projectiles, creating somewhat of a problem for first-responders.

I still have them on my 2015 Golf, but I *think* they have been conspicuously absent on later model-years.

I *do* prefer them though, and have always considered them a sign of some quality.

Although the gas strut being a hazard in a car fire may be a real concern, I doubt it is a cause for elimination. The site https://www.firerescue1.com/near-miss-with-iafc/articles/exp... describes five cases (2019) so “Yes” firefighters should have an awareness of the potential risk. Is it a reason to eliminate the design? Not in my opinion.

A car that I had in mind. Why does a Golf R get a prop rod, when it has all kinds of fancy custom colors available, and is generally a cool car? My buddy thinks I take it too far saying that's a deal breaker, or that if I got a Tahoe I need the six piston Brembos with 16" rotors. Granted I was always like this as a kid going back to 5 years old. My dad would get car catalogs and configure cars how he "would" want them, with nary an intention of buying.

Germans aren't as bad as the Japanese, as I've mentioned many times. Imho it's the business model. Such as selling cheap printers but making it back on ink.

My Toyota product again the hood struts are $151 a piece at a dealer, but you can get aftermarket for $9 with a lifetime warranty.

BMW are $86.21 each (43% less), but one can actually get OEM (same strut without the BMW logo) for $12.99. Even I don't go that far--if you lift the hood and the struts say Stabilus, instead of Stabilus with a BMW logo, I'm good, I like $12.99 vs. $86.

As an aside, when they were used on the trunk 2000-2010, it added some cargo space as they eliminated the arms and rod mechanism and had sleek, flush, hinges. Both our cars, Japanese and German, from that era, have struts at the trunk as well.

So imho both cases above illustrate that cost is not the issue to a consumer. It does bum me out that with Japanese, the entire OEM is lacking--there's not enough transparency to find those parts, nor is there a supply in most cases. This is on purpose imho.

I still think as my dad did, that quality vehicles should have struts. It's a finishing touch, such as cabinet doors that don't slam (haha on the other forum I said that too and many said they don't care about that either and soft close mechanisms are just another thing to break).

Some probably don't even ever open the hood. A pole or struts? Don't think it matters at all.

Is what engineering is paid the big bucks to spot. Decontent what costs, but provides no perceived benefit to the buyer.

My 2007 model year car had these features standard:

adaptive xenon headlamps
true dual exhaust
external engine oil cooler
rechargeable flashlight in glove box
heat for 30-45 min after engine turned off
seat belt butlers that hand the belt to front passengers (broke from day 1 bad design)

By 2023, all of the above, not only are not available, but they were removed by the early 2010's. Imagine the cost to the mfg for those features? I priced out the exhaust, piece by piece, and it not only added unsprung weight, but was almost $7,000 retail. On a car that had a list of $40k. The flip side is if a muffler were to go bad, a $1800 bill ensues hahahahahahahaha (there are always two sides to a story). But as a former engineer, it is gratifying to get a true system into production, over a fake one, and using hardware, over software.

Our other 2 cars also have two mufflers in the rear--it was the style 2000-2020 or so. But underneath a Y pipe. Maybe this can be another topic. I don't think it matters either, because most cars today have plastic "blanks" at the rear and not real exhaust pipes. Because it's not "cool" to drive a car that produces exhaust.

I first saw that with Audi maybe 2018. At what point do we say, we will not accept 52 oz half gallons of orange juice? Give us back the other 12 oz.

Headlamps is another topic. From my observation, Subaru, Honda, Toyota--LED headlamps that simply blind oncoming traffic, because unlike 20 years ago, with that many lumens, they leveled and swiveled. DOT once again, asleep at the wheel lol

The NTSB says that the majority of complaints relative to lighting are with SUVs. The lights of course are significantly higher and contribute significantly to the perceived brightness. There is also the issue with blue or red spectrum light. LEDs tend to the blue wavelength while old incandescent lean toward the red wavelength. Studies have been done where red spectrum and blue spectrum lights (of the same lumen output) are placed side by side, and people perceive the blue lights as significantly brighter.

Not all cars have LED headlights but more and more are joining vehicle offerings. There was a bipartisan infrastructure bill recently passed (I believe 2021 or 2022) that requires regulators approve a technology called “adaptive driving beam” headlights by 2023. Adaptive driving beam headlights use software-enabled LEDs that adjust the headlight beam to avoid other drivers and illuminate your surroundings. I haven’t followed the technology or its adoption however.

The technology is discussed at https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-allow-adaptive-dr....

My impression, not knowledge, is that blinding headlights are often caused by using aftermarket LEDs in housings designed for incandescent bulbs.

Anyone know about the alleged LED headlight problem of getting snow covered because they aren’t hot enough to melt the snow? True? Solved?

Don't know the answer, but I'll probably find out in the next couple of months as my 2023 Toyota Crown has LED headlights. I know the side mirrors have heaters to melt the ice off the mirrors, but AFAIK the headlight housings don't have heaters. Maybe there is enough heat in the engine compartment to keep the headlights melted.

If you do a search about the snow on LED lights issue you will find that many instances involve aftermarket LED replacements of standard or halogen lights. Many cases exist where the vehicle design involves relatively deep set headlights. The Jeep Wrangler JL and Jeep Gladiator JT, depending on the year, can easily collect snow. It is such an issue that several high end lights have been designed that heat the lens.

Of course the circumstances of driving also play are key factor, i. E., the weather in Buffalo is often quite different than that here in Philadelphia.

IMO, struts and prop rods have nothing to do with quality and everything to do with height & weight. As stated earlier, some hoods are simply too heavy for the average person to easily lift.

This is the main reason struts are used almost entirely on rear hatches.

also, on larger vehicles, like SUV's and pickups, unless you're very tall, it's difficult to lift the hood high enough to use a prop rod.

Believe that my dad's use of the word "quality" is incorrect. There's no question a VW Golf R and a Toyota Grand Highlander are quality vehicles. Heck they're in the $60k group. Their mfgs saved production costs by using a prop rod. And, imho most buyers don't care, so it's a win.

I think where they also do this today, are with brakes, and with headlamps. What was standard 20 years ago, is either non-existent, or costs a lot more as an option.

For example, a Cadillac Escalade that is easily $125k. It has inexpensive LED headlights, and brakes.

Has one ever noticed what the brakes look like, when it has 22" rims?

Optional brakes, are $3,500. The fact that most Escalades do not have optional brakes, shows, it's not something owners worry about. A $70k Lexus RX at least the last gen, had solid discs in the rear. How many owners pull the wheels prior to purchase, to see if the discs are ventilated? Again, my cars are all old. They are all ventilated rotors on all 4. One car has fixed calipers on all 4 (I actually feel it makes pad replacement more difficult, many say easier--it's the see saw effect that gets me).

I think overall engineering philosophy has changed. Imagine in the early 80's when Toyota created Lexus. The results in fall 1989 came at all costs, which were staggering. Their cars had a .26 cd, unheard of, why? Because the founder wanted that--just as the founder of Costco says the hot dog and soda must remain $1.50.

Today, it's the reverse. Lower the expenses to maximize profit, if there is any profit at all.

Been driving since 1966 and worked on all my cars until about 1994.
Since 94 owned Pontiac Transport, Chrysler Town & Country, Chrysler Crossfire, Jeep Commander, Subaru Baha, 2 Subaru Foresters, Subaru Impreza and 6 Subaru Outbacks. I've seen hinges, struts and rods and actually prefer rods.
I don't think it's a sign quality it's just the manufacturers choice. (and what is cheaper to install...remember it's always the bottom line...)

2

I prefer struts, but the vehicles I've had lately have used rods to prop the hood open. It's not a factor in choosing a vehicle for me, just a preference.

I hadn't heard about the fire-safety issue with struts before, which I see is disputed/questioned.

I can only go by what I have read in local press or car-related blogs. And I have not followed closely.

The issue was a concern for some agencies, and the Canuck government has never seen a regulation it did not like.

Plus, we need to make vehicles sold in Canada just that little bit different to the U.S. or Europe in order to screw with the consumer and make life just generally more difficult.

I trust rod more than hood struts.
I have seeing failed (impotent) hood struts which is kind of scary, and you want to have it replaced ASAP.

NO, "quality" is an excuse to justify a price. If you get struts, you pay for them. In the old days, they used springs.

Sure, I like the struts better than a prop, but to be honest, I seldom open the hood on my recent cars. I no longer do my own maintenance. Unless the vehicle is dripping fluids, smoking or won't start and with all the electronic diagnostic alerts, there is little reason to get into the engine compartment on newer cars. Maybe a few times a year to add window washing fluid. On my new Toyota, even the 12V battery is in the trunk!

I was growing up, from my perception, every family had at least one vehicle with a manual transmission. It was two-fold.

One, the car cost less. Two, it usually got better fuel economy both being an economy car, and the mechanical aspect of the drivetrain (back then, auto trans were beginning to lock up in top gear.

The key is, auto trans was optional and costed more.

Today, BMW doesn't even offer a manual except in the base M3/M4 and M2. I heard that includes Europe, maybe I heard wrong.

But before BMW did away with the manual....a manual transmission was a $0 cost option. I think this plays into what you are saying. A manual cost the same as an auto, and was optional. Beautiful marketing. There was not a lower price for the manual transmission.

At any rate, I still think some of it is that consumers have given up. They say the Fed is concerned that the public has accepted 4% inflation, ie their demand isn't softening.

I ran numbers on a 2023 Chevy Tahoe. Buy with $30k down, lease, either way, the payment is 4 figures. Taking the median US income into consideration, the typical person out there cannot afford a $1000+ monthly payment--the lease is with $8400 down, the buy is $30,000 down, to get closer to $1000/mo. Also? 48 mo lease and 72 mo purchase. Pretty dang scary. Yet the Tahoe is all over the place. Ask your close friend how they are affording that payment. It dang better have struts holding the hood up at those numbers, for me at least.

The last thing that made me laugh out loud. A 2024 C63s AMG mercedes....they did away with the bi-turbo V8 of 2023, and it has a 2.0 liter 4 cyl turbo for 2024. Laughable. That could be another question--name one 4 cyl car that's high quality hahahaha the list will be long because looks like there are six figure 4 cyl cars now. Of course there are, Porsches have long been 4 cyl on the 718 not 981 is it (from memory)? But I mean a lot of new high end 4 cyl cars. Where'd the other 4 cyl go on that C63s for 2024?

If consumers don't shape up, cars will come with a 1x2 to hold up the hood one day. I'm kidding, I respect that it makes no difference to the majority. I guess I got this from my dad.

Like this? (I **think** this is a strut failing; it's a little small on my laptop screen.)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/g_HUHur_jyc

One thing about rods, they're unlikely to snap but you have to be careful to insert them into the right port before letting go of the hood. With some new or rental vehicles, sometimes it's a little unclear where the rod goes.

washing the dishes this AM listening to music streaming (with ads).

On comes an add for a Toyota Corolla lease, $329/mo. RAV4 over $400.

That makes sense when a Chevy Tahoe is 4 figures, $8300 down, 10k miles, 48 mos, over $1100. The buy was 72 mos (huh?), $30,000 down, still over $1000/mo.

If this were my parents' days, they would keep pushing their current vehicles, and their demand for a car would be 0. Not willing, and potentially not able. But I just saw the $0/$0/$0/$0 sign and drive ad for VW while watching the Flyers--how is that even possible now? lol

Consumers do seem to take whatever marketing dishes out, but not my parents' gen...on another forum someone pointed out bankruptcy laws were revised to prevent consumers from simply walking away like they could before.