going to proactively change car battery

 

I think unfortunately they went up like 25% at costco.

The one I have is a full 5 years old, no problems, but it doesn't pass a load test.

When the car sat 4 weeks, could not start. That's not typical, my other car has sat 3+ months in the garage, starts like a charm. That car has a 9 y.o. battery which I stupidly replaced at the dealer when 6. At that time I didn't know how to register the battery with the car and so when the dealer did it for $280, I said do it. Now I can use my laptop and get a $150 Costco job, but seems the 9 y.o. is ok.

The car I will be changing is Japanese, no muss no fuss, just a regular 24F which is as common as the flu. I want to avoid touching car batteries around the time we have our emissions testing, since the computer will go off and reset--that's been done. I tried the 9V cigarette lighter thing it doesn't work on any of our cars (to keep up the settings).

Car batteries are a mystery to me. I hear there are only 3 companies in the USA that make them. Reminds me of gasoline refinement. My wife's car had 3 brand new ones fail in < 12 mos--puzzling. the 3rd failure was a costco, so just got a new one no questions asked--but why I say puzzling? Car was DOA and even airbag warning was on (that was a first, luckily my tool resets abs/airbags). Once jumped and driven, battery passed a load test. But I felt better with a new one. If not costco, they would have not exchanged since it passes a load test.

Anyway, geek that I am, I love the feeling of a new battery, like tires, oil, brake fluid, coolant. Feels good when these things are new...

p.s. I have 3 flavors of battery tender, one Noco, and one WFCO RV charger that I built, to charge all the used batteries that I have. I use these in the event of a power outage, can keep lights, cells charged, etc. I don't feel a generator is justified....too $$$$$

car standby operating current

One element in battery lifetime when the car is sitting doing nothing is the battery, but the other is the car. Decades ago when I was a lad, a car with the radio and the lights turned off could be relied upon to pull practically nothing out of the battery. But in modern cars the host of computers and such don't all actually fully turn off and car standby power consumption from the 12 V battery line of several tens of milliamperes is entirely common.

Worse yet, if anything goes wrong it can happen that the wrong thing raises that standby current substantially. In the case of a 1987 BMW I sold to my daughter after I had run it for fifteen years, there was a failure of a rechargeable battery buried somewhere in the radio, which failed to a state in which the car standby power consumption rose enough to shorten her 12V battery "hang time" considerably. A good repair shop hunted it down and fixed it.

--
personal GPS user since 1992

I think it's worthwhile to

I think it's worthwhile to put a battery tender on a modern car if it will sit for a while.

yep

archae86 wrote:

One element in battery lifetime when the car is sitting doing nothing is the battery, but the other is the car. Decades ago when I was a lad, a car with the radio and the lights turned off could be relied upon to pull practically nothing out of the battery. But in modern cars the host of computers and such don't all actually fully turn off and car standby power consumption from the 12 V battery line of several tens of milliamperes is entirely common.

Worse yet, if anything goes wrong it can happen that the wrong thing raises that standby current substantially. In the case of a 1987 BMW I sold to my daughter after I had run it for fifteen years, there was a failure of a rechargeable battery buried somewhere in the radio, which failed to a state in which the car standby power consumption rose enough to shorten her 12V battery "hang time" considerably. A good repair shop hunted it down and fixed it.

My uncle has a 2006 Acura and it died every 3 days. Dealer found nothing (what's new). He took it to a Japanese specialist who found a bluetooth module had a parasitic draw. Since my uncle doesn't talk while driving, rather than replace it, it was taken offline. Battery never died again.

The vehicle I was referring to with a 9 y.o. OE battery, is in fact a BMW, where BMWs need battery registration when you replace like for like. That is, same capacity, same type. 720CCA AGM. 780CCA lead acid. The thing is no aftermarket for BMW seems to have the same 90 Ah as the OE one. Yet many have said they've gotten an auto parts, Walmart, Costco, registered it, and no problems whatsoever, without coding.

The car needs to be told it has a new battery, and what type. It will go back to charging normally, whereas it charges aggressively when the battery is old.

If same, then registration, if different capacity or type, such as lead acid to AGM, then coding. I do plan on going to a Costco lead acid which is slightly less capacity, and don't plan on coding. People on the forum say it won't actually matter as it's close, like 80 Ah and the factory is 90 Ah.

as an aside I've read online people have spent hundreds on bmw software and changed the battery type and capacity, then when a dealer or indie shop reads the computer, nothing was actually done! hahahahahahahahahaha that's what we call a scam with everyone under the sun developing phone android and iOS apps

p.s. it appears that only the 24F battery has gone up 25%. The costco for our other two cars is exactly the same...I actually wonder if it's because 24F is very popular, higher demand, same supply during pandemic? The others are H46 (group 48) and H47 (94R). Go figure!

I wish the new car took a

I wish the new car took a standard battery (24f). It takes a h7 AGM type battery - ~$200 and weighs around 50lb.

Doubt I can get away with a flooded battery given it's installed in the trunk/rear hatch area.

Drain

I am well aware of the drain on a battery in a modern car and last winter I was away for seven months with my car parked and locked up..
I put a CETEK charger on it to maintain the battery without causing any harm to the battery. Worked like a charm !!!

Cetek: https://www.ctek.com/uk/education/battery-maintenance

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Never heard of battery registration so looked it up

I looked this registration procedure up, at least with respect to BMW and I find it interesting that the article at https://www.bimmer-tech.net/blog/item/115-bmw-battery-replac... says the process can be as much as $200 at a dealer, and the wording infers that does not include the cost of the battery!

How come I can have a $50 HP printer that detects a new ink cartridge, then asks me to confirm that I did I replace the cartridge, then when I respond “yes” it appropriately initializes and aligns the cartridge? In similar manner, I have a Canon camera that on replacing its battery, detects the new battery, and asks if I want to register it.

It is also interesting that in the news these days is discussion of “right to repair” legislation.

--
John from PA

H7 dimensionally equivalent to 94R

zx1100e1 wrote:

I wish the new car took a standard battery (24f). It takes a h7 AGM type battery - ~$200 and weighs around 50lb.

Doubt I can get away with a flooded battery given it's installed in the trunk/rear hatch area.

The H7 battery is a DIN classification and its dimensions are 315 x 175 x 190 mm. This is identical the the BCI Group 94R which is 12-3/8 x 6-7/8 x 7-1/2 inches or 315 x 175 x 190 mm. It is very common to substitute the H7 with the 94R.

--
John from PA

early on

John from PA wrote:

I looked this registration procedure up, at least with respect to BMW and I find it interesting that the article at https://www.bimmer-tech.net/blog/item/115-bmw-battery-replac... says the process can be as much as $200 at a dealer, and the wording infers that does not include the cost of the battery!

How come I can have a $50 HP printer that detects a new ink cartridge, then asks me to confirm that I did I replace the cartridge, then when I respond “yes” it appropriately initializes and aligns the cartridge? In similar manner, I have a Canon camera that on replacing its battery, detects the new battery, and asks if I want to register it.

It is also interesting that in the news these days is discussion of “right to repair” legislation.

It puzzled newbies which I was in 2007.

When I got the new battery at the dealer in 2011, to their credit, they asked why do you want a new battery, the battery is fine (it was 5 y.o.). Since it was $280, I said please do it. Some on the forum were paying $450. The battery itself listed for $200 so I felt the labor was minimal. But when I asked about AGM, they said that's $500, so absolutely not worth it. Only $100 was the part, the rest was the fact that AGM needed coding, not programming.

Battery registration tells the car that it has a new battery, and assumes the new battery is same as old. Even though one day when I go with the Costco which is 80 Ah, when the factory is 90 Ah, both owners and indy shops say registration is sufficient. Telling the car the battery is new means it won't charge as aggressively as it was with the old one. People have not done it, and the assumed outcome is earlier than normal failure from being overcharged.

If in my case I went from lead acid to AGM, I need to code. Now the car needs to have coding done because the type changed. Coding is stuff like do the DRLs turn on when car is on? On my Japanese car, coding is, does the steering wheel tilt up and telescope, when key is removed?

It's the more serious flavor of programming. Some coding, if the battery were to die while flashing the DME? It's bricked. Dealers always have the vehicles on clean power when coding/programming.

Way back when, common fault on BMW, the seat belt butlers would get stuck and not hand the belt to the driver or passenger. The dealer told me we can't replace it per BMW, we have to update the software (car was under warranty). At the time I thought that's crazy. With a 2021 car I bet people accept that everything is software! (it didn't work so they replaced the arm)

btw I have the BMW factory software on a laptop. I do not have the equivalent for Toyota. If I did, I would remove the tilt and telescope upon key removal as that's wear and tear. I had to remove the fuse instead.

stinger battery

John from PA wrote:

The H7 battery is a DIN classification and its dimensions are 315 x 175 x 190 mm. This is identical the the BCI Group 94R which is 12-3/8 x 6-7/8 x 7-1/2 inches or 315 x 175 x 190 mm. It is very common to substitute the H7 with the 94R.

Here's the crazy part. It's an agm battery but it has a vent tube...wtf!@#..

https://kiaparts.penceauto.com/p/Kia_2020_Stinger/Battery-Ve...

charging voltage and re-Programming

AGM batteries require a lower charging voltage than flooded lead-acid batteries. That is why the car needs re-programming. It has to know how to run the alternator in order to use an appropriate charging voltage for the type of battery.

The charging voltage is different for all three stages of charging: bulk, absorbtion, and float, and it is different for each battery type.

Source: Balmar Marine electronic regulator settings.

Translation - If a lead-acid battery is replaced with an AGM without re-programming, the new battery will be fried. If an AGM is replaced with a lead-acid without re-programming, it will always be undercharged.

dobs108 smile

Need for the complexity driven by the start-stop technology

Seems like much of the complexity of changing the battery is being driven by the "start-stop" technology that is present in many of the newer cars.

See https://batteryworld.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/how-do-i-cha... and note that at the bottom are links to several related topics.

--
John from PA

Battery Tender

I have a tender on my car ( not my daily) all the time, I drive it only on weekends. 2018 Camaro 2SS

battery tender voltage capability

Since lead-acid and AGM batteries need different float charging voltages, a battery tender must have a setting for this. In the past, lead-acid alone would have been sufficient, but now a switch to select lead-acid or AGM would be needed. And the owner would have to know which battery is in the car.

I wonder if manufacturers are aware of this?

dobs108 smile

nothing new

although I don't have such....always liked vehicles that have 2 batteries. Due to the electrical demands. Again, our newest car is a 2011. But it does have a 170A alternator, and that's more than a Chevy Suburban of the same vintage. Yet the battery is only a H6. Car was made in Lansing MI yet the computer Germany and the alternator made by Denso in TN

imho USA OE is questionable. I know from going through 2 sets of OE front struts in only 90k (came to my senses and now Bilstein B6 on 4 corners), water pump failing in 80k, etc etc. With an American car one has to be able to DIY or it'd be cheaper to get a German one lol

At the same time my dream car is the new Escalade Sport Platinum with 6 piston front brakes

the noco

dobs108 wrote:

Since lead-acid and AGM batteries need different float charging voltages, a battery tender must have a setting for this. In the past, lead-acid alone would have been sufficient, but now a switch to select lead-acid or AGM would be needed. And the owner would have to know which battery is in the car.

I wonder if manufacturers are aware of this?

dobs108 smile

My Noco "tender" wants to know if lead acid or AGM and based on user input...it's 5A.

I bought a WFCO RV power supply, the 55A model to power the car when running software on it, and based on a RV meter that I applied, I verified it does in fact have 3 modes and it truly clamps down on the voltage. As a test, I turned ignition and headlights on, and watched the meter show the supply was delivering 21A, and voltage almost same as when it was at rest only at 1-2A....only geeks care, right? lol

v=ir so there has to be regulation as the i goes from 1-55....if not, like the cheap devices, voltage likely spikes at 16v+ and frys the electronics

Just so you know what I mean, this baby was 13.6v at 21 amps....in retrospect I never saw 14.4v, but I did see 13.2v. So I guess I stretched the truth when I said I saw all 3 modes..

https://wfcoelectronics.com/product/wf-9855-55-amp/

Cheaper to get a German one

johnnatash4 wrote:

With an American car one has to be able to DIY or it'd be cheaper to get a German one lol

When I had to replace the water pump on my Porsche Boxster I learned that Porsche, who use a plastic impeller, recommends pump replacement every 50K to 60K, and that by the way will set you back about $1000 at a dealer. A neighbor bought one of my old Accords and took it from 125,000 miles to just short of 300,000 miles. I helped him replace the water pump, timing belt and tensioner. The pump had a bronze impeller. Maybe this idea of saving weight and reducing cost costs us more in the long run.

--
John from PA

AGM battery

About 3 years ago I changed to an AGM battery.
Now since I drive a VAG (VW,AUDI,SEAT or many others) vehicle I own what is called a VCDS which lets me change many things in the computer of the car. To charge the AGM battery I had to change from a flooded battery to an AGM battery.

This VCDS program is installed in a dedicated older laptop and plugs into the OBD-II port which all cars since 1995 have installed somewhere.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

COSTCO

Costco is the best value to me and here is why...

Lets say a battery dies at year 4. Costco refunds the remaining portion to me if out of the exchange period.

Then I get sold a new battery. This gives me both the pro rated amount and RESETS the warranty.

At the PEPboys/AutoZone places, they prorate the battery and you stay with the warranty from the original date of purchase...
----
Edit

Evidently Costco now has a 3 year warranty on the battery.....

Auto zone has the same battery for $100 More....
well similar battery- 51R - 3 year warranty

Batteries + Bulbs

When shopping for a battery for my 2013 Jeep Wrangler the best deal I found was at a very surprising place, to me anyway. A store called Batteries + Bulbs, never in a million years would I have thought of this place, have one near me, wifey had her iPhone screen replaced at one.

Google told me they had car batteries. Plus, if you buy it online then go to the store it's 10% off and they install it right on the spot for free, that way you get the 'core deposit' back right away.

I've had mine for nearly 5 years now and it was at 90% a couple months ago. It has a 60 Month Free Replacement Warranty.

This "X2Power" BCI Group 48 AGM car battery is designed to meet or exceed the OEM specifications as a replacement battery for your vehicle. Exclusively at Batteries Plus.

Lucky for me, I guess, I didn't need to 'pair it' or any of that stuff like some of you with the foreign cars need to do. It get pretty cold here in PA and it's never let me down. I have a few extras hooked up to it as well, for example a winch and extra lights.

I always spend the extra time to look for the best deal without giving up quality, Google and patience has surprised me with many purchases in the past, this was was added to the list. I once found a set of pipes for my Harley, brand new, at a boot place for over $100 less than everywhere else. The guy never got around the installing them and traded the bike they were to go on for something else.

Item Number: SLI48AGMDP
Brand: X2Power
Voltage: 12
Format: BCI Group 48
Lead Acid Type: Deep Cycle, Dual Purpose (Starting/Cycling), Starting
Capacity: 67AH
Cold Cranking Amps: 775
WARNING: Cancer and Reproductive Harm - www.P65Warnings.ca.gov
Battery Type: Ultimate
Capacity 20hr: 67AH
Chemistry: Lead Acid
Cranking Amps: 915
Lead Acid Design: AGM
Made in the USA: True
Maintenance Free: Yes
Product Category: Auto/Light Truck
Product Sub Category: Premium AGM
Terminal Type: SAE, Automotive Post
Warranty: 60 Month Free Replacement
Weight: 48.6 lbs
Length: 10.9 in
Width: 6.9 in
Height: 7.4 in

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Batteries used to give you a warning...

...before they died. Not anymore! The last two that I have replaced started just fine. The next time that I tried to start the car. Nothing. I asked a guy at the parts store about it and he said that it is the way that they are manufactured today. Didn’t make a lot of sense to me but I guess he knew what he was talking about.

--
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. ----George Washington

my shameless plug

soberbyker wrote:

When shopping for a battery for my 2013 Jeep Wrangler the best deal I found was at a very surprising place, to me anyway. A store called Batteries + Bulbs, never in a million years would I have thought of this place, have one near me, wifey had her iPhone screen replaced at one.

Google told me they had car batteries. Plus, if you buy it online then go to the store it's 10% off and they install it right on the spot for free, that way you get the 'core deposit' back right away.

I've had mine for nearly 5 years now and it was at 90% a couple months ago. It has a 60 Month Free Replacement Warranty.

This "X2Power" BCI Group 48 AGM car battery is designed to meet or exceed the OEM specifications as a replacement battery for your vehicle. Exclusively at Batteries Plus.

Lucky for me, I guess, I didn't need to 'pair it' or any of that stuff like some of you with the foreign cars need to do. It get pretty cold here in PA and it's never let me down. I have a few extras hooked up to it as well, for example a winch and extra lights.

I always spend the extra time to look for the best deal without giving up quality, Google and patience has surprised me with many purchases in the past, this was was added to the list. I once found a set of pipes for my Harley, brand new, at a boot place for over $100 less than everywhere else. The guy never got around the installing them and traded the bike they were to go on for something else.

Item Number: SLI48AGMDP
Brand: X2Power
Voltage: 12
Format: BCI Group 48
Lead Acid Type: Deep Cycle, Dual Purpose (Starting/Cycling), Starting
Capacity: 67AH
Cold Cranking Amps: 775
WARNING: Cancer and Reproductive Harm - www.P65Warnings.ca.gov
Battery Type: Ultimate
Capacity 20hr: 67AH
Chemistry: Lead Acid
Cranking Amps: 915
Lead Acid Design: AGM
Made in the USA: True
Maintenance Free: Yes
Product Category: Auto/Light Truck
Product Sub Category: Premium AGM
Terminal Type: SAE, Automotive Post
Warranty: 60 Month Free Replacement
Weight: 48.6 lbs
Length: 10.9 in
Width: 6.9 in
Height: 7.4 in

60 month free replace is outstanding.

I saw a grid where almost all batteries are Johnson Controls or Exide. I remember there is a 3rd called East Penn or something. So imho it's like a floor jack in 2010--Spend $90 at Harbor Freight, spend $1,600 on a Snap On made in China, it's as good as the warranty. Guess which jack the USPS bought? Every YouTube guy even lifting Lambo's and Ferrari's are using the HFT lol

I will say this about Batteries+, at least the one by me.

When my son "lost" my wife's GM key fob, an online search said that they at $173 would be the cheapest for the replacement.

I was able to watch the entire process, it was very interesting. Basically, the car is aware of up to 4 keys, and 4 fobs. New car comes with 2. So the idea is to delete the lost one, by deleting everything. Now, add back original #1, and the replacement, which, is a $14 amazon knock off (but you can't program it yourself 2011+). The interesting thing is the laptop does not simply go USB into OBDII, like my BMW software at home (most people at home are setup like me). It does that ICOM thing as it's called in the BMW world. There's a device that takes ethernet from the laptop and then goes serial into the OBDII I believe for speed. It would take forever and a day if simply USB to OBDII like with a reader/scan tool. Also, when plugged in, there was a 15 minute waiting period that counted down. I take it that's to prevent simply using a laptop for theft purposes.

The owner was super friendly, said he lives in my town, and when it failed the first time, said I can come to your house after work so you don't have to come in if that helps. 10/10 customer service. They had ordered the wrong chipped key, ours has a + with a circle on it, and the aftermarket didn't.

Gets better. My son "hid" the keys in a Mr. Potato head. DA**! So I call the store and get a young lady who says oh we have to charge you because we get charged (they do the laptop with software is a subscription). Owner calls back I'll be happy to add the one you found no charge, glad you found it, and once again offered to come to us if we want.

That's old school customer service!

Also, I said to make up for the $173 lost, I'll buy a share of amazon. It was $1800 at the time...lol Sept. '19

East Penn Manufacturing makes DEKA batteries

johnnatash4 wrote:

I saw a grid where almost all batteries are Johnson Controls or Exide. I remember there is a 3rd called East Penn or something.

East Penn Manufacturing is a huge battery manufacturer about 12 miles northeast of Reading PA. Their batteries carry the brand name DEKA but they do manufacturer for many of the brands available in the US. ACE Hardware, Lowes, Walmart. A few years back they made the OEM batteries for Honda USA.

They even have their own stores, one being in Folcroft PA. A factory store is in Fleetwood PA. Years ago, prices at the factory store were unusually good.

They claim to be the "world's largest single-site, lead-acid battery facility".

--
John from PA

BMW, groan

I (perhaps stupidly?) purchased a well used BMW 335d about 4 years ago with 79K miles. I won't bore you (or embarrass myself) with all the tribulations I have gone through since initial purchase, but stay on topic. When my transmission had an error, I had a major nationwide chain look into it. When they repaired it ($1000+) I asked them to check the battery. This was February. They told me the battery was fine. When I started the car, the radio was dropping while the starter started. Also, things would reset almost every time I started the thing. Over the summer, three times I went to get into the car after sitting between 3 hours and a day and it would slowly turn over and die. Fortunately for me, they were all in my driveway, so I just hooked up a battery charger, waited fifteen minutes and away I went. After a drive it would start again. The third time, I headed to Auto Zone and just replaced the thing. The radio now stays on when the car starts. Two OBDII codes that kept creeping up have since gone silent. The stupid green indicator on the battery was still showing the old battery was good.

BMW stands for "Bring My Wallet"

I really do like the car but heck, it ain't cheap to keep.

--
Striving to make the NYC Metro area project the best.

You're not kidding

camerabob wrote:

~snip~

BMW stands for "Bring My Wallet"

I really do like the car but heck, it ain't cheap to keep.

My wife had a BMW motorcycle, an 1100 RT. I'm a Harley guy but I have to admit the 1100 was eons ahead technology wise. Anyway, She needed an oil change, no BMW motorcycle dealers around but a sort of nearby BMW car dealer was authorised to do work on the motorcycles too.

$750 dollars. A labor intensive job with a lot of parts needing to come of and put back on in order to get to the filter.

Almost needless to say, she traded it in on a Harley within a few months after that. Behind the times in technology, but way ahead in the cool factor. smile

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Did you mean $75 or $750 for

Did you mean $75 or $750 for the oil change? The latter seems quite excessive. What year 1100RT was this? I looked at some youtube videos. Looks like your typical oil change.

$750

zx1100e1 wrote:

Did you mean $75 or $750 for the oil change? The latter seems quite excessive. What year 1100RT was this? I looked at some youtube videos. Looks like your typical oil change.

$750 IIRC, that's what jumps out at me, but not $75 for sure it was ridiculous. I'll ask her when she gets home but her memory isn't much better than mine, if any. It was before she was my wife, we were dating. It was probably around 2005 or 6 when it happened, not sure of the year of the bike, maybe 1999. Neither of us are mechanics so she was at their mercy I suppose.

ETA again IIRC they told her they had to remove fairings and other stuff to get at where they needed to do the job. I just watched a video where you simply remove the filter from the bottom of the engine, don't think hers was that easy.

Looked like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/BM...

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

.

zx1100e1 wrote:

Did you mean $75 or $750 for the oil change? The latter seems quite excessive. What year 1100RT was this? I looked at some youtube videos. Looks like your typical oil change.

I asked her about it, she doesn't remember the year of the bike, nor the actual price but her immediate answer was "I don't know, around $500" like I said, it was a ridiculous amount. She does remember them saying they had to take stuff off to do the job, and of course then put it back on.

When camerabob said BMW stands for bring my wallet I immediately recalled the story of my wifes bike, even if some of the details were a little sketchy, it certainly fit his line.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

in reality

camerabob wrote:

I (perhaps stupidly?) purchased a well used BMW 335d about 4 years ago with 79K miles. I won't bore you (or embarrass myself) with all the tribulations I have gone through since initial purchase, but stay on topic. When my transmission had an error, I had a major nationwide chain look into it. When they repaired it ($1000+) I asked them to check the battery. This was February. They told me the battery was fine. When I started the car, the radio was dropping while the starter started. Also, things would reset almost every time I started the thing. Over the summer, three times I went to get into the car after sitting between 3 hours and a day and it would slowly turn over and die. Fortunately for me, they were all in my driveway, so I just hooked up a battery charger, waited fifteen minutes and away I went. After a drive it would start again. The third time, I headed to Auto Zone and just replaced the thing. The radio now stays on when the car starts. Two OBDII codes that kept creeping up have since gone silent. The stupid green indicator on the battery was still showing the old battery was good.

BMW stands for "Bring My Wallet"

I really do like the car but heck, it ain't cheap to keep.

DIY changes everything, of course, as it does with the house.

I listened to the talk and got myself an extended warranty. My 2007 BMW was on the Consumer Reports most unreliable and avoid lists.

Hmmm...since they were wrong? By 2010 the very same car was recommended. Don't you wish you could be that way at your own job?

So, as luck would have it, NOTHING BROKE under the extended warranty.

Now, out of the extended warranty the ABS pump aka DSC Hydro failed. That's a $4,200 job at the dealer. Because I needed some line wrenches and software, it cost me about $500 to DIY. Here it is 5 years later and the repair is fine.

Ever see what Toyota and GMC charge, for the same job on a BMW? Sometimes more. My wife's car was made in Lansing, MI. The water pump is an $800 job, the alternator is a $1000 job, and so many things broke that never broke on the BMW. I don't think this comment box allows enough characters to get into it. The GMC version of her car is over $1,400 when the headlamp housings burn out from the faulty DRLs. Yet I want a Cadillac hahahahahahahaha

German cars being unaffordable to operate is a myth. Certain cars? Sure, usually 8+ cylinders. Inline 6? Bulletproof!

I've been out of the car market so long, but my cousin says the G series BMWs although boring to drive, are better than the F's, and are now actually reliable. Who knows? 60k for a 4 cyl isn't my cup of tea. Then again doesn't Porsche cross 90k for a 4 cyl? These are numbers I can't relate to.

I like watching

soberbyker wrote:
camerabob wrote:

~snip~

BMW stands for "Bring My Wallet"

I really do like the car but heck, it ain't cheap to keep.

My wife had a BMW motorcycle, an 1100 RT. I'm a Harley guy but I have to admit the 1100 was eons ahead technology wise. Anyway, She needed an oil change, no BMW motorcycle dealers around but a sort of nearby BMW car dealer was authorised to do work on the motorcycles too.

$750 dollars. A labor intensive job with a lot of parts needing to come of and put back on in order to get to the filter.

Almost needless to say, she traded it in on a Harley within a few months after that. Behind the times in technology, but way ahead in the cool factor. smile

A YouTube channel where the guy strips down core engines.

Whenever I see my future engine if I were to get that Caddy (6.2 liter V8), it is so unimpressive when seen torn down. I don't mean the fact that it's overhead valve with pushrods, just the general quality seems like it's not good. Caddy may be $109k, but this same engine could be in a entry level half ton pickup too.

Then you see him tear down a toyota V8 (which I own) or a Mercedes 6.2 liter, and the engines are so much more impressive and seemingly well designed. Again I like to say I have a German, a Japanese, and an American car, and I feel I can appreciate the nuances having worked on all 3 myself.

I actually will likely never get that Cadillac, and it's likely for my own good. I already know what going in for GMC service is like. Feels like walking into a 70's movie with the mentality and customer service.

by the way

I did replace the battery and I did something really stupid.

I thought well I'm not sure what will be lost with the battery being disconnected so let me power the vehicle with my WFCO power supply.

This worked. I clamped to the car's cables, and removed the old battery. The car still had power.

Believe it or not the worst part of the reinstall is the cheesy tie down with the rod that hooks into the unibody if you will, 2 of them.

I for one always replace the plastic sleeve around the battery (remember I didn't do it on my Nissan and the fender rusted 4 years later from battery gassing).

This car has the battery under the hood, towards the passenger firewall. Our other two cars do not have their batteries under the hood. One is in the trunk and the other under the rear passenger's feet.

So all is well--I've now put the positive back on the new battery, but I didn't put the negative back and began tightening on the post.

Well as I tightened? My clamp fell off the car's cable and the car lost power.

You should have heard my Homer Simpson DOH!!!!!!

So that was all a waste getting the WFCO out and all.

The radio presets and seat presets were still there.

But there was a reboot--climate control reset, all mpg computer values were gone, etc.

So now the car won't be able to pass emissions, but luckily I already inspected it through 10/22.

Sometimes we do dumb things. That's why we're humans. If I had put the negative cable on the negative post and the positive clamp fell off? No problem the battery is already connected.

I like to use the Noco felt washers around the posts and also spray that purple Permatex goo on to avoid corrosion.

Best Car Tech Thread

This is the best car tech thread I've read in quite some time. Thanks everyone, this was a good read.

Kept a battery from 2011

Kept a battery from 2011 (group 35) on a battery tender since sometime in 2015 til now. Still working well. Even used it in a car for a few weeks to see if it still had juice to start. It did. Granted, car was a honda accord 4 cyl which originally came with a group 51r battery, but still.

The battery was used as a 12V source in the garage after 4 years of service in the original car (g37). Didn't want to take any chances so replaced it. Surprised it still juice to crank an engine. Pepboys battery test tool indicated it had ~500CCA remaining. Never added fluid to it, but did check periodically.

I like watching too

johnnatash4 wrote:

A YouTube channel where the guy strips down core engines.

~snip~

I've done a lot of simple repairs around the house and on my Jeep only because I was able to see it done on youtube, a great source of see it done stuff. Like I said, simple, I am basically all thumbs, and my size prohibits me from doing a lot of things I might otherwise be able to do. Plus since I am not a machanic and my life tends to follow Murphy's Law I don't mind paying someone whose job it is to do the things that need to be done, in a lot less time than I could and if something breaks along the way they have the knowledge and most likely the parts right there.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

good mechanic

soberbyker wrote:

...I don't mind paying someone whose job it is to do the things that need to be done, in a lot less time than I could and if something breaks along the way they have the knowledge and most likely the parts right there.

I once paid a local shop to install a new, complete 350 CID engine in my 1970 GMC 2500 pickup. The mechanic who did the job was leaving for dental school the next day. That was his last repair on a car. He knew what he was doing! Sometimes working on a car is like pulling teeth!

dobs108 mrgreen

I truly

dobs108 wrote:
soberbyker wrote:

...I don't mind paying someone whose job it is to do the things that need to be done, in a lot less time than I could and if something breaks along the way they have the knowledge and most likely the parts right there.

I once paid a local shop to install a new, complete 350 CID engine in my 1970 GMC 2500 pickup. The mechanic who did the job was leaving for dental school the next day. That was his last repair on a car. He knew what he was doing! Sometimes working on a car is like pulling teeth!

dobs108 mrgreen

feel it is necessary to have a local indie to turn to. We can't simply drive a car into a dealership and have our Visas ready. This is imho the reason why so many lease and just get a new car every 36 mos (before the pandemic I can't imagine today doing that). To avoid ever being out of warranty and dealing with mechanical failure etc.

It seems like German cars have the most indies, but they are not all good....I think there's plenty of work, and the price is reasonably high--they can charge 1/2 of a dealer and still make a good margin.

Maybe I'm naive but the garage that inspects 2 of our cars, they install customer parts, so if I have to, I would use them. The few shops whom I randomly called asking if they install customer parts said no.

I got the Bilstein suspension online and my uncle was supposed to help me put it into my wife's car--2 struts, 2 shocks, and all the hardware like strut mounts, boots, bump stops, sway bar end links, etc. But the pandemic happened. Was it worth it to pay $400 labor? I actually think so. Imagine no lift, and taking out windshield wipers, cowling, large nuts, etc.? $400 is not cheap, it's by the book--but compare the out the door price of parts plus labor to driving into a chain muffler shop for the same. 1--it's cheaper 2--the Bilsteins are superior to the Monroes and Gabriels of the world, and unfortunately with GM, the OE stuff leaks in 60k.....

Then with the Japanese car, the indie is 65 miles away. Can you believe that in the Phila. metro area I could not find an indie who installs customer parts?

Here's the beauty of the independent garage. imho, they often do a better job than the dealership. They can't afford rework as a general rule, and they rely upon their reputation.

The timing belt (ugh timing belt hahahahahaha I've never had one before ever) on my V8 Toyota was done better than the dealership and about 60% of the price. The bilstein job on my wife's SUV was perfect--the Bilstein struts don't have the attachment for the GM ABS sensor wire to snap in--the tech very neatly zip tied it rather than leave it dangling.

Wouldn't you know I ran into the tech this year at the PA State inspection (because the advisor said he's the tech who did your shocks and he has OCD about doing things perfectly). I told him that he did a great job. He smiled and said thank you, we try. I knew last year it was a good sign when I saw a Bilstein sticker on his tool chest!

indie = win/win

indie

johnnatash4 wrote:

it is necessary to have a local indie to turn to.

~snip~

Maybe I'm naive but the garage that inspects 2 of our cars, they install customer parts, so if I have to, I would use them. The few shops whom I randomly called asking if they install customer parts said no.

snip~

indie = win/win

The main problem with dealers and/or independant shops is trust. I'm lucky, I have two honest very local shops and both have no problem with bringing your own parts. The one helped me build my Jeep into what it is today, all with my parts and his labor, which I happily paid him for, plus tips.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Battery tender

In the past, if I left my car in the garage for a month, the battery would die.
eveb if you don't run it. the computers draw power/
I installed a battery tender and left my car in the garage for 4 months and it started up like I just turned it off.

--
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things!

How the stupid green indicator works

camerabob wrote:

The stupid green indicator on the battery was still showing the old battery was good.

BMW stands for "Bring My Wallet"

I really do like the car but heck, it ain't cheap to keep.

Some car trivia, how does that green indicator work? That green indicator is actually a small ball and if we think of it as two halves, one side is heavier than the other. The density of the electrolyte varies from about 1.28 in a fully charged battery to 1.15 in a discharged battery. Thus that little ball rolls over depending on the electrolyte density, to present a light green or dark black (often seen as dark green), which indicates charge state. There can be some issues with a car in storage, the heavy electrolyte settles in the battery and the ball may rotate to indicate a bad state of charge. Use of a car keeps the electrolyte moving. If you stored a car or battery for an extended period, it may be a good idea to agitate the battery a bit. Sometimes putting a charger on the battery will agitate the electrolyte due to heating of the electrolyte. As you can see, not the most reliable indicator!

For some pictures of how the "magic eye" works see https://carput.my/the-truth-about-car-batterys-magic-eye/

--
John from PA

Lead acid vs. AGM

John from PA wrote:
camerabob wrote:

The stupid green indicator on the battery was still showing the old battery was good.

BMW stands for "Bring My Wallet"

I really do like the car but heck, it ain't cheap to keep.

Some car trivia, how does that green indicator work? That green indicator is actually a small ball and if we think of it as two halves, one side is heavier than the other. The density of the electrolyte varies from about 1.28 in a fully charged battery to 1.15 in a discharged battery. Thus that little ball rolls over depending on the electrolyte density, to present a light green or dark black (often seen as dark green), which indicates charge state. There can be some issues with a car in storage, the heavy electrolyte settles in the battery and the ball may rotate to indicate a bad state of charge. Use of a car keeps the electrolyte moving. If you stored a car or battery for an extended period, it may be a good idea to agitate the battery a bit. Sometimes putting a charger on the battery will agitate the electrolyte due to heating of the electrolyte. As you can see, not the most reliable indicator!

For some pictures of how the "magic eye" works see https://carput.my/the-truth-about-car-batterys-magic-eye/

Thank you! Maybe that is better than moss growing on the battery!

My '17 F-350 recently had it's battery and hold-down bracket replaced under warranty. On a Ford trucks message board there are lots of complaints of outgasing acid and eating up cables and the hold-down bracket. The replacement is no better and I am out of warranty now. I need to replace it before there is more destruction. I was going to get a Costco/Interstate lead acid or preferably an AGM. Is there any reason to avoid the AGM since the charging protocol is a little different and the regulator in the alternator is not different?

is AGM supported?

To decide whether to install a lead-acid or AGM battery, find out if the AGM is supported. A lead-acid battery can be installed without making any changes.

However, to install an AGM battery, a change must be made to lower the charging voltage. If Ford has no info on how this is done, no AGM can be installed.

Others in this thread have reported that computer settings can be changed but none of those are Fords.

dobs108 smile

AGM W/O apparent problems

dobs108 wrote:

To decide whether to install a lead-acid or AGM battery, find out if the AGM is supported. A lead-acid battery can be installed without making any changes.

However, to install an AGM battery, a change must be made to lower the charging voltage. If Ford has no info on how this is done, no AGM can be installed.

Others in this thread have reported that computer settings can be changed but none of those are Fords.

dobs108 smile

I was a programmer from what might be called "time immemorial". I learned the difference between "must" and "may" reading manuals. I understand that many people are swapping AGMs for SLAs without "apparent" problems.

There is some Russian software (which might be high quality and secure, but creates some anxiety within me) called FORScan which can edit all? most? of what the Ford software can manage. I am too uptight to try using it. Above and beyond that, to the best that I can grok, there is no differentiation between SLA and AGM there.

When an SLA battery for $100 with 850 CCA compares to an AGM for $165 with 750 CCA it has become academic.

Article: SEPARATING AGM BATTERY FACTS FROM THE MYTHS

minke wrote:

I was going to get a Costco/Interstate lead acid or preferably an AGM. Is there any reason to avoid the AGM since the charging protocol is a little different and the regulator in the alternator is not different?

An article titled "SEPARATING AGM BATTERY FACTS FROM THE MYTHS" at
https://www.underhoodservice.com/separating-agm-battery-fact... states "You can’t upgrade a customer to an AGM battery if the vehicle originally came with a flooded battery.

False. You can install an AGM battery into a flooded battery application. An AGM battery will give the vehicle more cold cranking power and greater resistance to heat and vibration. However, you never want to downgrade a vehicle that came with an AGM battery to a flooded battery."

Something else I found, is the article content at https://www.noln.net/articles/2122-battery-management-the-ch.... The article states, with respect to Ford, "On the mentioned Ford system, if this service is not performed, the BMS requires eight hours of sleep time with the key in the off position, and the doors must remain closed. This allows the BMS time to relearn the battery state of charge. Until that time, the BMS may keep the mentioned electrical systems disabled." One unanswered question is what does "key in the off position" exactly mean? Is the key in or is it removed? I know that on my Porsche leaving the key in and in off position enables a relearn function. Do this for several days, and it may even drain the battery.

You can also find a lot of Ford forums sying no proplem going to AGM, and many people add in they have used the AGM battery for many years. I found one individual stating that when he asked the dealer about the situation, they were unaware of any procedure.

--
John from PA

From your link

John from PA wrote:
minke wrote:

I was going to get a Costco/Interstate lead acid or preferably an AGM. Is there any reason to avoid the AGM since the charging protocol is a little different and the regulator in the alternator is not different?

An article titled "SEPARATING AGM BATTERY FACTS FROM THE MYTHS" at
https://www.underhoodservice.com/separating-agm-battery-fact... states "You can’t upgrade a customer to an AGM battery if the vehicle originally came with a flooded battery.

False. You can install an AGM battery into a flooded battery application. An AGM battery will give the vehicle more cold cranking power and greater resistance to heat and vibration. However, you never want to downgrade a vehicle that came with an AGM battery to a flooded battery."

Something else I found, is the article content at https://www.noln.net/articles/2122-battery-management-the-ch.... The article states, with respect to Ford, "On the mentioned Ford system, if this service is not performed, the BMS requires eight hours of sleep time with the key in the off position, and the doors must remain closed. This allows the BMS time to relearn the battery state of charge. Until that time, the BMS may keep the mentioned electrical systems disabled." One unanswered question is what does "key in the off position" exactly mean? Is the key in or is it removed? I know that on my Porsche leaving the key in and in off position enables a relearn function. Do this for several days, and it may even drain the battery.

You can also find a lot of Ford forums sying no proplem going to AGM, and many people add in they have used the AGM battery for many years. I found one individual stating that when he asked the dealer about the situation, they were unaware of any procedure.

From your link:
"Newer GM vehicles have a Battery Sensor Module on the negative battery cable. Ford has the Battery Monitoring System (BMS). Other manufacturers have similar systems. These systems require recalibration with a scan tool if the battery is replaced. If the system is not recalibrated, the alternator might overcharge the new battery and cause the battery to fail soon after replacement."

no BMS

John from PA wrote:
minke wrote:

I was going to get a Costco/Interstate lead acid or preferably an AGM. Is there any reason to avoid the AGM since the charging protocol is a little different and the regulator in the alternator is not different?

An article titled "SEPARATING AGM BATTERY FACTS FROM THE MYTHS" at
https://www.underhoodservice.com/separating-agm-battery-fact... states "You can’t upgrade a customer to an AGM battery if the vehicle originally came with a flooded battery.

False. You can install an AGM battery into a flooded battery application. An AGM battery will give the vehicle more cold cranking power and greater resistance to heat and vibration. However, you never want to downgrade a vehicle that came with an AGM battery to a flooded battery."

Something else I found, is the article content at https://www.noln.net/articles/2122-battery-management-the-ch.... The article states, with respect to Ford, "On the mentioned Ford system, if this service is not performed, the BMS requires eight hours of sleep time with the key in the off position, and the doors must remain closed. This allows the BMS time to relearn the battery state of charge. Until that time, the BMS may keep the mentioned electrical systems disabled." One unanswered question is what does "key in the off position" exactly mean? Is the key in or is it removed? I know that on my Porsche leaving the key in and in off position enables a relearn function. Do this for several days, and it may even drain the battery.

You can also find a lot of Ford forums sying no proplem going to AGM, and many people add in they have used the AGM battery for many years. I found one individual stating that when he asked the dealer about the situation, they were unaware of any procedure.

The owners manual for my '17 F-350 says of the BMS "if equiped". The negative connection on my battery goes directly to ground, so no BMS. You might be amused that the Costco/Interstate AGM battery for my truck provides 750 CCA and the flooded battery 850.

https://costco.interstatebatteries.com/home/results?key=auto...

I don't know if it is true but I presume that Costco batteries from Interstate are made to Costco's specs.