tolls and sticker shock

 

It's truly been more than about 16 months since we traveled.

Only after July 4th did I cross the bridge 3 times in a week and nothing changed, $5.

But we went from PA to CT this weekend and the NJ Turnpike (which offers no discount at all on weekends as everyone pays cash rate--their residents should revolt) was $16.05 for 66 miles, GWB WB to exit 6.

Here's a real oddity--it would cost 75 cents less, to go GWB WB to exit 4, which is 18 more miles?

Another thing is the PA Turnpike from an overall, but perhaps per mile as well, is the most expensive in the nation? lol

I thought I had it down traveling with multiple E-ZPass tags in the foil bags, but it may be time to get one of those James Bond rotating license plates!

A plus with going to CT was got some Donegal Irish Whiskey for a friend. It's not sold in PA/NJ/DE and don't think it's in NY either.

How much additional

How much additional time/distance would taking country/secondary roads add?

Most Expensive in the World!

johnnatash4 wrote:

Another thing is the PA Turnpike from an overall, but perhaps per mile as well, is the most expensive in the nation? lol

According to one source, the PA Turnpike is arguably the most expensive toll road in the world!

https://www.thedrive.com/news/39672/the-pennsylvania-turnpik...

however ...

bdhsfz6 wrote:
johnnatash4 wrote:

Another thing is the PA Turnpike from an overall, but perhaps per mile as well, is the most expensive in the nation? lol

According to one source, the PA Turnpike is arguably the most expensive toll road in the world!

https://www.thedrive.com/news/39672/the-pennsylvania-turnpik...

Read the comments though, actual users of the road, one said:

Quote:

The $112.90 represents the maximum cash toll for a two axle passenger vehicle if one were to drive from the furthest westbound interchange - the Ohio line Gateway eastward on the Pennsylvania Turnpike (I-76 and briefly I-276) for approximately 330 miles to the Mid-County interchange and then north on the Northeast Extension (I-476) for its full length of 110 miles to its terminus at Clark Summit in the northeast of the state. No driver makes that routing for the trip, rather - someone coming from the west would exit near Harrisburg and take the free I-81 northeast to Scranton.

If you were to drive the entire length of the mainline turnpike from the Ohio border on the west to the New Jersey border on the east - you would pay $95 in cash for the toll as a two axle vehicle or $47 with E-ZPass. Big savings.

Most car travelers don't drive end to end - they commute on the Turnpike. The average commuter pays about $1.50 with E-ZPass/ $2.50 cash for a trip of about two exits (15 miles or so).

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

unit pricing

^^^^^ (above) "Most car travelers don't drive end to end - they commute on the Turnpike. The average commuter pays about $1.50 with E-ZPass/ $2.50 cash for a trip of about two exits (15 miles or so)."

Isn't it like when Walmart presents something that comes in multiple sizes....perhaps the unit price is what's used to comparison shop?

It would be interesting to see if the above is true, because that's 10 cents per mile. The 24.25 miles that we do is very common, mid county to the NJ turnpike, and it's $4.80 eastbound, and $10.90 westbound.

Taking the 48.5 round-trip, using $15.70 total cost, comes out to 32.4 cents per mile. It's a real trip. Our alternative is to go through Center City to NJ, and avoid the PA Turnpike.

Anyway, that's the E-ZPass price. Not sure where the $1.50 even comes from?

on our trip

if we took Route 1 and exited in New Brunswick, we'd save about $12, and add likely add 30 minutes to the trip. I'd do it, but my wife would likely say that's $24/hour hardly worth it, better to pay.

My thinking is that in a perfect world, an ordinary person doesn't pay $12 more maybe the choice is more reasonable, like $5? CA and MD have these themes, pay to get somewhere quicker.

I randomly looked at two PA Turnpike exits next to each other, Valley Forge and Norristown. 6.66 miles. It's $2.30 E-ZPass. Once again, 34.5 cents per mile. I'm not sure what exit works out to 10.

The next set, Norristown to Fort Washington, 5.08 miles. $1.60 E-ZPass, 31.4 cents per mile. To me, it looks like the road is designed to be in the 30 cent/mile + range.

PA Tolls

We got hit with extraordinary tolls going through PA on the way from NYC. It was $10 here, $5 there, and $20 later!!! To add more salt to the wound, all exits have only select stores and fuel prices were much higher than off the toll road. In the future, we will avoid going through PA so that we don't pay these high tolls.

West Virginia raised their tolls on the turnpike…

…from $2.00 to $4.00 a few years back. It had been going up .50 or so at a time, but I guess they got tired of that and raised their prices by doubling them. Instead of going through all three toll booths now, I jump off after the second one and drive through the country down to Roanoke. Nicer drive, less traffic, and I save $8.00. Good deal all the way around.

--
With God, all things are possible. ——State motto of the Great State of Ohio

politicians

Have to pay for all that 'free stuff' people get, right? And, it's summer, and folks want to travel after a year of locked up.

It won't get better, so bring your own lube.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Ouch!

Juggernaut wrote:

...It won't get better, so bring your own lube.

Ouch! wink

Phil

--
"No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse."

.

maddog67 wrote:

…from $2.00 to $4.00 a few years back. It had been going up .50 or so at a time, but I guess they got tired of that and raised their prices by doubling them. Instead of going through all three toll booths now, I jump off after the second one and drive through the country down to Roanoke. Nicer drive, less traffic, and I save $8.00. Good deal all the way around.

The problem in PA there really isn't another east/west road in the lower half of the state that wouldn't take you 5 times as long to traverse from one end to the other.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

More to Come

soberbyker wrote:
bdhsfz6 wrote:
johnnatash4 wrote:

Another thing is the PA Turnpike from an overall, but perhaps per mile as well, is the most expensive in the nation? lol

According to one source, the PA Turnpike is arguably the most expensive toll road in the world!

https://www.thedrive.com/news/39672/the-pennsylvania-turnpik...

Read the comments though, actual users of the road, one said:

Quote:

The $112.90 represents the maximum cash toll for a two axle passenger vehicle if one were to drive from the furthest westbound interchange - the Ohio line Gateway eastward on the Pennsylvania Turnpike (I-76 and briefly I-276) for approximately 330 miles to the Mid-County interchange and then north on the Northeast Extension (I-476) for its full length of 110 miles to its terminus at Clark Summit in the northeast of the state. No driver makes that routing for the trip, rather - someone coming from the west would exit near Harrisburg and take the free I-81 northeast to Scranton.

If you were to drive the entire length of the mainline turnpike from the Ohio border on the west to the New Jersey border on the east - you would pay $95 in cash for the toll as a two axle vehicle or $47 with E-ZPass. Big savings.

Most car travelers don't drive end to end - they commute on the Turnpike. The average commuter pays about $1.50 with E-ZPass/ $2.50 cash for a trip of about two exits (15 miles or so).

The PA Turnpike tolls will increase between 3 and 5% per year until 2050.
https://www.fox43.com/article/news/local/pa-turnpike-tolls-i...

Who knows where it will rank in the world by then.

BTW, please note I did say "arguably" the most expensive in the world.

I guess it depends on how you calculate it ...

The PA Turnpike is expensive overall, but it's also 360.09 miles long. It's not the most expensive per mile though.

The following list, (link below), is from June 2021 and PA isn't even on the list calculating toll cost per mile.

From the article that bdhsfz6 provided a link for, I read that the PA Turnpike is roughly 26 cents a mile so on the following list it would be ranked at #10.

https://thenewswheel.com/11-most-expensive-toll-roads-in-ame...

1. Chesapeake Expressway (Virginia): $1.31 per mile

2. Chicago Skyway: 74.4 cents per mile

3. SR-73 (Orange County, California): 72 cents per mile

4. 17-Mile Drive (California): 63.2 cents per mile

5. E-470 (Denver): 50 cents per mile

6. Fort Bend Parkway (Houston): 37.3 cents per mile

7. Delaware Turnpike: 30 cents per mile

8. Texas State Highway 130: 29.5 cents per mile

9. Triangle Expressway (Raleigh): 29.3 cents per mile

10. Central Florida Expressway: 16 cents per mile

11. New Jersey Turnpike: 15.5 cents per mile

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Unless you're in Virginia

soberbyker wrote:

The PA Turnpike is expensive overall, but it's also 360.09 miles long. It's not the most expensive per mile though.

The following list, (link below), is from June 2021 and PA isn't even on the list calculating toll cost per mile.

From the article that bdhsfz6 provided a link for, I read that the PA Turnpike is roughly 26 cents a mile so on the following list it would be ranked at #10.

https://thenewswheel.com/11-most-expensive-toll-roads-in-ame...

1. Chesapeake Expressway (Virginia): $1.31 per mile

2. Chicago Skyway: 74.4 cents per mile

3. SR-73 (Orange County, California): 72 cents per mile

4. 17-Mile Drive (California): 63.2 cents per mile

5. E-470 (Denver): 50 cents per mile

6. Fort Bend Parkway (Houston): 37.3 cents per mile

7. Delaware Turnpike: 30 cents per mile

8. Texas State Highway 130: 29.5 cents per mile

9. Triangle Expressway (Raleigh): 29.3 cents per mile

10. Central Florida Expressway: 16 cents per mile

11. New Jersey Turnpike: 15.5 cents per mile

I66 inside the Beltway has variable pricing... during rush hour up to $40 for the 10 miles for non-HOV drivers.
https://ggwash.org/view/65796/the-new-i-66-tolls-offer-great...
Mark

I remember

soberbyker wrote:
maddog67 wrote:

…from $2.00 to $4.00 a few years back. It had been going up .50 or so at a time, but I guess they got tired of that and raised their prices by doubling them. Instead of going through all three toll booths now, I jump off after the second one and drive through the country down to Roanoke. Nicer drive, less traffic, and I save $8.00. Good deal all the way around.

The problem in PA there really isn't another east/west road in the lower half of the state that wouldn't take you 5 times as long to traverse from one end to the other.

When I first moved to this area 21 years ago, it was like $18 to get to Baltimore. I was like huh?!

Musta been 2 years into marriage maybe 2009 or so. I came across stuff online on how to bypass tolls, specifically Phila. to Baltimore. So I said hmmmm I'd like to try that, and did it only 2X because it took much longer. Back then, there was an annual pass hahahahahahahaha to the Hatem Bridge that is parallel to I-95. I used to see cars up here with a barcode on the rear left glass and wonder what that was. I jerry rigged it so I could take it on and off as I only used it 2X. But the bypass worked. It's not that hard actually to bypass the DE toll plaza. But I know of no way today to bypass MD. MD is another state who charges out of state a higher rate. imho PA cannot do that as their folks legitimately have NJ E-ZPass it's DRPA.

Funny Story

Not directly related to the OP but a funny story.

Back in the early 1970's I was taking night classes at N.J.I.T. and frequently used the Garden State Parkway. Tolls were $.25 at the time and I kept a roll of quarters in the ash tray.

To save me fumbling around for quarters at toll booths, my mother gave me a "quarter pistol" as a gag gift. You loaded it with a roll of quarters and it would shoot one into the hopper in the toll booth exact change lane.

Well late one night while coming home from class, I accidentally drove through a manned lane at the toll booth. I didn't realize it and pointed the pistol to shoot the quarter as usual. The poor toll collector ducked to the floor and hit the alarm button!

The Parkway police were on the scene in seconds and I had a tough time explaining what happened!

Wow nice list on the toll

Wow nice list on the toll road rankings! When I drive across multiple states, I don't realize that all this adds up. It's even more difficult to realize when using toll road electronic passes.

E-Zpasss are not all the same?

I’m inferring that E-Zpasss (is that the plural? E-Zpass's? E-Zpass'?) are not all the same. I’m an E-Zpass alien since live in CO. If I wanted to drive to the east is it easy to figure out an E-Zpass strategy? Is there a best pass? Since I won’t be commuting multiple passes likely wouldn’t be helpful.

Since I no longer have kids in the east this is hypothetical. When I have driven east I find the traffic oppressive when I get to MO! The mind is a wonderful thing: I learned to drive in NYC and I find rural MO interstate traffic overwhelming!

nope

minke wrote:

I’m inferring that E-Zpasss (is that the plural? E-Zpass's? E-Zpass'?) are not all the same. I’m an E-Zpass alien since live in CO. If I wanted to drive to the east is it easy to figure out an E-Zpass strategy? Is there a best pass? Since I won’t be commuting multiple passes likely wouldn’t be helpful.

Since I no longer have kids in the east this is hypothetical. When I have driven east I find the traffic oppressive when I get to MO! The mind is a wonderful thing: I learned to drive in NYC and I find rural MO interstate traffic overwhelming!

EZPasses are not the same, some issuing authorities give a discount for folks using their (that authority) EZPass on their (that authority) roads/bridges. In addition, the annual fee for the pass is not the same, that too is up to each issuing authority.

The only thing that is the same is you can use an EZPass on all EZPass highways and bridges.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Toll roads

I refuse to use toll roads at the best of times, but there are two exceptions

The Kansas Turnpikes have to be the most reasonably priced so when I'm in Kansas I use it

But "when I'm not in Kansas anymore"

I do use the toll roads in Mexico and to hell with the expense. Lets you avoid longer drives and longer distances as well as all those speed-bumps every village has several of.

--
Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

PHL to NJ and back

When I used to travel extensively to NJ for work back in 2013, I landed in PHL and drove to the project site over Delaware river.

It was free to cross from PA to NJ. It was a $5 toll to cross from NJ to PA.

The project joke was that it was the best $5 you'd ever spend.

!

Melaqueman wrote:

I do use the toll roads in Mexico and to hell with the expense. Lets you avoid longer drives and longer distances as well as all those speed-bumps every village has several of.

Topes suck, and can destroy your car.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

more

soberbyker wrote:
minke wrote:

I’m inferring that E-Zpasss (is that the plural? E-Zpass's? E-Zpass'?) are not all the same. I’m an E-Zpass alien since live in CO. If I wanted to drive to the east is it easy to figure out an E-Zpass strategy? Is there a best pass? Since I won’t be commuting multiple passes likely wouldn’t be helpful.

Since I no longer have kids in the east this is hypothetical. When I have driven east I find the traffic oppressive when I get to MO! The mind is a wonderful thing: I learned to drive in NYC and I find rural MO interstate traffic overwhelming!

EZPasses are not the same, some issuing authorities give a discount for folks using their (that authority) EZPass on their (that authority) roads/bridges. In addition, the annual fee for the pass is not the same, that too is up to each issuing authority.

The only thing that is the same is you can use an EZPass on all EZPass highways and bridges.

Here's an example of the difference in EZPass tolls on NYC bridges, the first price is if you have the bridge authority issued EZPass, the second is for all other EZPassess & toll by mail:

Passenger Vehicle Rates

Crossing E-ZPass (NYCSC) Tolls by Mail / non-NYCSC E-ZPass

Robert F. Kennedy, Bronx-Whitestone, Throgs Neck, and Verrazzano-Narrows Bridges and Queens Midtown and Hugh L. Carey Tunnels

$6.55 ............ $10.17

Henry Hudson Bridge $3.00 ....... $7.50

Cross Bay and Marine Parkway Bridges $2.45 ...... $5.09

Apr 9, 2021

So while the PA Turnpike's 360 miles may have the highest toll overall, because of its length, it's certainly not the most expensive per mile.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

long ago

soberbyker wrote:
soberbyker wrote:
minke wrote:

I’m inferring that E-Zpasss (is that the plural? E-Zpass's? E-Zpass'?) are not all the same. I’m an E-Zpass alien since live in CO. If I wanted to drive to the east is it easy to figure out an E-Zpass strategy? Is there a best pass? Since I won’t be commuting multiple passes likely wouldn’t be helpful.

Since I no longer have kids in the east this is hypothetical. When I have driven east I find the traffic oppressive when I get to MO! The mind is a wonderful thing: I learned to drive in NYC and I find rural MO interstate traffic overwhelming!

EZPasses are not the same, some issuing authorities give a discount for folks using their (that authority) EZPass on their (that authority) roads/bridges. In addition, the annual fee for the pass is not the same, that too is up to each issuing authority.

The only thing that is the same is you can use an EZPass on all EZPass highways and bridges.

Here's an example of the difference in EZPass tolls on NYC bridges, the first price is if you have the bridge authority issued EZPass, the second is for all other EZPassess & toll by mail:

Passenger Vehicle Rates

Crossing E-ZPass (NYCSC) Tolls by Mail / non-NYCSC E-ZPass

Robert F. Kennedy, Bronx-Whitestone, Throgs Neck, and Verrazzano-Narrows Bridges and Queens Midtown and Hugh L. Carey Tunnels

$6.55 ............ $10.17

Henry Hudson Bridge $3.00 ....... $7.50

Cross Bay and Marine Parkway Bridges $2.45 ...... $5.09

Apr 9, 2021

So while the PA Turnpike's 360 miles may have the highest toll overall, because of its length, it's certainly not the most expensive per mile.

Not sure if it were here or another forum, people asked where is the cheapest place to get an E-ZPass account. I was one of those crazies watching Law and Order thinking, "The detectives are gonna track my movement!" Well c'mon now um wth is gps for? lol They don't need a transponder. So I caved in and got an account in 2001--DRPA, which was appropriate for my mailing address. Not sure if it was the corruption or why, but it was automatically converted to NJ.

There was some authority in the Buffalo area that was deemed cheapest as in free, and so based on the web, everyone applied there and they were inundated.

Today, it matters less. You can have any mailing address you want and open a free account in New York. That's what I did--there are times the Henry Hudson saves 40 minutes due to the high cost of the toll for out of state tags. I just keep one in the foil bag, the other on the windshield.

Why should I pay NJ $1/mo., esp when I didn't drive 16 months? That's $16 down the drain. Why....because they are the one that has the commuter plan to cross the DE River in Phila. But since we only work in the office every other week, I'll never reach 18 trips/mo. Time to consider canceling the NJ E-ZPass, there is no benefit to having one, unless you drive off-peak on the NJ TPK. Even their own tagholders get zero discount on weekends. What would one expect from a state that has higher gas prices than CT!

also I dunno, if we compare bridges to roadways, is that how we justify the 30+ cents per mile of PA? Sounds very political if we do that, you know, like how a politician would spin that and get reelected.

When it was one-way tolling, the verrazzano would have had a really high cost per mile, maybe $18. So $18 v. 30 cents makes the 30 cents cheap.

.

johnnatash4 wrote:
soberbyker wrote:
soberbyker wrote:
minke wrote:

I’m inferring that E-Zpasss (is that the plural? E-Zpass's? E-Zpass'?) are not all the same. I’m an E-Zpass alien since live in CO. If I wanted to drive to the east is it easy to figure out an E-Zpass strategy? Is there a best pass? Since I won’t be commuting multiple passes likely wouldn’t be helpful.

Since I no longer have kids in the east this is hypothetical. When I have driven east I find the traffic oppressive when I get to MO! The mind is a wonderful thing: I learned to drive in NYC and I find rural MO interstate traffic overwhelming!

EZPasses are not the same, some issuing authorities give a discount for folks using their (that authority) EZPass on their (that authority) roads/bridges. In addition, the annual fee for the pass is not the same, that too is up to each issuing authority.

The only thing that is the same is you can use an EZPass on all EZPass highways and bridges.

Here's an example of the difference in EZPass tolls on NYC bridges, the first price is if you have the bridge authority issued EZPass, the second is for all other EZPassess & toll by mail:

Passenger Vehicle Rates

Crossing E-ZPass (NYCSC) Tolls by Mail / non-NYCSC E-ZPass

Robert F. Kennedy, Bronx-Whitestone, Throgs Neck, and Verrazzano-Narrows Bridges and Queens Midtown and Hugh L. Carey Tunnels

$6.55 ............ $10.17

Henry Hudson Bridge $3.00 ....... $7.50

Cross Bay and Marine Parkway Bridges $2.45 ...... $5.09

Apr 9, 2021

So while the PA Turnpike's 360 miles may have the highest toll overall, because of its length, it's certainly not the most expensive per mile.

~snip~

also I dunno, if we compare bridges to roadways, is that how we justify the 30+ cents per mile of PA? Sounds very political if we do that, you know, like how a politician would spin that and get reelected.

When it was one-way tolling, the verrazzano would have had a really high cost per mile, maybe $18. So $18 v. 30 cents makes the 30 cents cheap.

If you go back and read the article that was posted earlier in this thread you'd know PA is 26 cents a mile and would fall in at number 10 on the most expensive in the USA list. The turnpike is 360 miles long, longer than any other on the list, so of course it's gonna be expensive overall.

As for the bridges above, that comparison was for the difference in price depending on who issued the EZPass. The first price was if you had the bridges EZPass, the second price was for everyone else. Again, re-read what I wrote to understand the purpose.

That aside, a bridge is just a road over something so yeah, they count, they both take your money for using them, no political spin involved.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

It pays to just get out the paper map and look things over.

Sometimes it pays to just get out the paper map and look things over. For instance, I can take the PA Turnpike Downingtown exit to Chagrin Falls Ohio and rack up some serious tolls in PA. The toll based on "toll-by-plate" is $66.90. It is roughly 1/2 that ($33.00) using EZ Pass. But by examining the map one can see a route using Rt. 322 at Harrisburg East connecting to Rt. 80 just north of State College PA. That is the route I use. The "toll-by-plate" drops to $14.30 and the EZ Pass charge drops to $6.80. That route adds about 1/2 hour to the roughly 6-1/2 hour journey, more of course should you stop at the Penn State Creamery for arguably some of the finest ice cream this side of the Mississippi.

On the return trip, you get the special bag the Creamery sells, and you can bring back 6 true 1/2 gallons as they pack it with dry ice.

--
John from PA

these

are actual, current 2021 examples. It's not difficult to do the math ourselves.

As previously mentioned, Valley Forge and Norristown. 6.66 miles. It's $2.30 E-ZPass. Once again, 34.5 cents per mile.

The next set, Norristown to Fort Washington, 5.08 miles. $1.60 E-ZPass, 31.4 cents per mile. To me, it looks like the road is designed to be in the 30 cent/mile + range.

Is there something we're overlooking that gets the rate down?

up to 2015

John from PA wrote:

Sometimes it pays to just get out the paper map and look things over. For instance, I can take the PA Turnpike Downingtown exit to Chagrin Falls Ohio and rack up some serious tolls in PA. The toll based on "toll-by-plate" is $66.90. It is roughly 1/2 that ($33.00) using EZ Pass. But by examining the map one can see a route using Rt. 322 at Harrisburg East connecting to Rt. 80 just north of State College PA. That is the route I use. The "toll-by-plate" drops to $14.30 and the EZ Pass charge drops to $6.80. That route adds about 1/2 hour to the roughly 6-1/2 hour journey, more of course should you stop at the Penn State Creamery for arguably some of the finest ice cream this side of the Mississippi.

On the return trip, you get the special bag the Creamery sells, and you can bring back 6 true 1/2 gallons as they pack it with dry ice.

I used to still get maps from AAA. I especially liked the metropolitan ones like NYC, DC, LA, Boston.

Example, is it easier to see what's on sale at a grocery by an app, web browser, or the flyer someone tosses on the front lawn every Thu.?

I discovered the Trenton Makes free bridge by mistake one night about 15 years ago. All PA plates lined up so I decided to follow. imho kinda weird for a free bridge to literally be parallel to a toll bridge?

Ezpass & GPS

The toll rates, particularly on the PA Turnpike, are indeed high but so are the fines for violations.

Last year, my wife wanted to go to Jim Thorpe, PA. She plotted a route on her GPS that took her down the PA Turnpike to the Lehigh Valley exit. Although the GPS indicated the turnpike was a toll road, it wasn't aware that the Lehigh Valley exit is Ezpass only. She got off anyway and the fine was $80.00!

I suppose adding this type of information to the HERE database is possible. It likely wouldn't help much since the Ezpass rules are constantly changing and the database would quickly become out of date.

For what ever reason, google

For what ever reason, google maps does not visually differentiate between toll and nontoll. It will mention tolls when generating directions.

I've found bing maps to work well for areas i'm unfamiliar with. It differentiates visually between the two.

https://i.imgur.com/Jwa4JGn.png

The general toll roads around the chicago area include, i90, i294, i88, i94 (north of the city), i355, and probably some others.

In the pic above, they are indicated by a darker yellow, almost orange color, where as the free interstates are more yellowish.

Here's the 2 toll bridges in louisville, ky

https://i.imgur.com/o9xDLHn.png

Puzzled by your statements

bdhsfz6 wrote:

The toll rates, particularly on the PA Turnpike, are indeed high but so are the fines for violations.

Last year, my wife wanted to go to Jim Thorpe, PA. She plotted a route on her GPS that took her down the PA Turnpike to the Lehigh Valley exit. Although the GPS indicated the turnpike was a toll road, it wasn't aware that the Lehigh Valley exit is Ezpass only. She got off anyway and the fine was $80.00!

I suppose adding this type of information to the HERE database is possible. It likely wouldn't help much since the Ezpass rules are constantly changing and the database would quickly become out of date.

I just did a trip to Jim Thorpe over the 4th and I'm a bit puzzled by what you say. For one thing the usual exit for Jim Thorpe is exit 74 Mahoning Valley and it has an EZ Pass Lane. In addition, even if you do go through a slip ramp stating "EZ Pass only" the fine is supposed to be $25 plus any applicable toll so I’m wondering how you got to the “$80 fine”. In that regard, see the bottom right corner of the document at https://www.paturnpike.com/pdfs/tolls/TBP_Factsheet.pdf.

--
John from PA

You've cited high and unrealistic traffic areas

johnnatash4 wrote:

are actual, current 2021 examples. It's not difficult to do the math ourselves.

As previously mentioned, Valley Forge and Norristown. 6.66 miles. It's $2.30 E-ZPass. Once again, 34.5 cents per mile.

The next set, Norristown to Fort Washington, 5.08 miles. $1.60 E-ZPass, 31.4 cents per mile. To me, it looks like the road is designed to be in the 30 cent/mile + range.

Is there something we're overlooking that gets the rate down?

For one thing, you have picked areas with extreme high commuting traffic (more exist out near Pittsburgh) and the state has chosen, right or wrong, to charge more on those "peak" areas of travel.

As an example I cited earlier, if I enter at #312 Downingtown and exit at #247 Harrisburg East, about 65 miles, then the non-EZ Pass toll is #14.30 but with EZ Pass it drops to $6.80. Why anyone doesn't have an EZ Pass is beyond me, unless you are cheating on your spouse and seek privacy.

--
John from PA

Subject field is required.

johnnatash4 wrote:

are actual, current 2021 examples. It's not difficult to do the math ourselves.

As previously mentioned, Valley Forge and Norristown. 6.66 miles. It's $2.30 E-ZPass. Once again, 34.5 cents per mile.

The next set, Norristown to Fort Washington, 5.08 miles. $1.60 E-ZPass, 31.4 cents per mile. To me, it looks like the road is designed to be in the 30 cent/mile + range.

Is there something we're overlooking that gets the rate down?

The article I read said it averaged 26 cents a mile, STILL lets say it is 30 cents a mile, it's still not the most expensive by the mile for other toll ROADS as I noted before:

1. Chesapeake Expressway (Virginia): $1.31 per mile

2. Chicago Skyway: 74.4 cents per mile

3. SR-73 (Orange County, California): 72 cents per mile

4. 17-Mile Drive (California): 63.2 cents per mile

5. E-470 (Denver): 50 cents per mile

6. Fort Bend Parkway (Houston): 37.3 cents per mile

7. Delaware Turnpike: 30 cents per mile

8. Texas State Highway 130: 29.5 cents per mile

9. Triangle Expressway (Raleigh): 29.3 cents per mile

10. Central Florida Expressway: 16 cents per mile

11. New Jersey Turnpike: 15.5 cents per mile

It's the length, 360 miles, that makes it seem like the most expensive road. Anyway, spin it however you like. I'm satisfied with the info I found on the original topic.

For me I decide whether I want to get there fast, and spend the money for tolls, or take my time and avoid them on each trip I take.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

exactly ...

John from PA wrote:
johnnatash4 wrote:

are actual, current 2021 examples. It's not difficult to do the math ourselves.

As previously mentioned, Valley Forge and Norristown. 6.66 miles. It's $2.30 E-ZPass. Once again, 34.5 cents per mile.

The next set, Norristown to Fort Washington, 5.08 miles. $1.60 E-ZPass, 31.4 cents per mile. To me, it looks like the road is designed to be in the 30 cent/mile + range.

Is there something we're overlooking that gets the rate down?

For one thing, you have picked areas with extreme high commuting traffic (more exist out near Pittsburgh) and the state has chosen, right or wrong, to charge more on those "peak" areas of travel.

As an example I cited earlier, if I enter at #312 Downingtown and exit at #247 Harrisburg East, about 65 miles, then the non-EZ Pass toll is #14.30 but with EZ Pass it drops to $6.80. Why anyone doesn't have an EZ Pass is beyond me, unless you are cheating on your spouse and seek privacy.

For instance, according to the PA Turnpike Calculator webpage,

From Breezewood to Bedford, 16 miles, the EZPass toll is $2.70 which is about 17 cents a mile. (the cash price is $6.00)

From Blue Mountain to Carlisle, 25.25 miles the EZPass toll is $3.20 which is about 13 cents a mile. (the cash price is $6.80)

From Morgantown to Downingtown, 13.6 miles, the EZPass toll is $1.60 which is about 12 cents a mile. (the cash toll is $3.90)

My wife takes the Northeast Extension to work everyday and goes

from Mid County to Lansdale, 10.13 miles, the EZPass toll is $1.60 which is
16 cents a mile.
(the cash price is $3.90)

So as John from PA points out, the mileage rate is different depending on where on the turnpike you are.

So again, if you want to get out your abacus and figure it out for the entire 360 miles based on the actual turnpike prices from one exit to the next, maybe it does come out an average of 26 cent a mile as suggested in the article I had read.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

My Error.

John from PA wrote:
bdhsfz6 wrote:

The toll rates, particularly on the PA Turnpike, are indeed high but so are the fines for violations.

Last year, my wife wanted to go to Jim Thorpe, PA. She plotted a route on her GPS that took her down the PA Turnpike to the Lehigh Valley exit. Although the GPS indicated the turnpike was a toll road, it wasn't aware that the Lehigh Valley exit is Ezpass only. She got off anyway and the fine was $80.00!

I suppose adding this type of information to the HERE database is possible. It likely wouldn't help much since the Ezpass rules are constantly changing and the database would quickly become out of date.

I just did a trip to Jim Thorpe over the 4th and I'm a bit puzzled by what you say. For one thing the usual exit for Jim Thorpe is exit 74 Mahoning Valley and it has an EZ Pass Lane. In addition, even if you do go through a slip ramp stating "EZ Pass only" the fine is supposed to be $25 plus any applicable toll so I’m wondering how you got to the “$80 fine”. In that regard, see the bottom right corner of the document at https://www.paturnpike.com/pdfs/tolls/TBP_Factsheet.pdf.

It was the Jim Thorpe Route 903 interchange #87, not Lehigh Valley. Also, it wasn't last year, it was 4 years ago! Shows you what happens to your memory as you get old!

The incident happened in 2016, shortly after the Interchange was built. The $80 fine was a slight exaggeration with the actually being $73.13

https://www.poconorecord.com/article/20150906/NEWS/150909626

I believe the fines have been adjusted since then do to public outcry.

Sorry for the confusion and thanks for correcting me.

Chesapeake Expressway

soberbyker wrote:

The article I read said it averaged 26 cents a mile, STILL lets say it is 30 cents a mile, it's still not the most expensive by the mile for other toll ROADS as I noted before:

1. Chesapeake Expressway (Virginia): $1.31 per mile

HaHa! Yeah that's assuming the summer weekend rate for passenger cars ($9 instead of $3, 7 days a week off-season). The funny thing is that locals know how to route around the toll booth and only add a few minutes to their trip doing so--although it could add more than a few minutes to route around the toll at peak summer weekend time. Even at the $3 off-season toll, most SE Va/NE NC locals avoid this toll traveling between the Chesapeake-Norfolk-Virginia Beach area and the Outer Banks. It's a soak-the-unwary-tourist situation.

--
"141 could draw faster than he, but Irving was looking for 143..."

I had sticker shock when I

I had sticker shock when I rcvd a mail bill 2 months after using the toll road in Miami. FL.

Just another way to tax the under $500,000 earners in the US.

per mile costs

johnnatash4 wrote:

if we took Route 1 and exited in New Brunswick, we'd save about $12, and add likely add 30 minutes to the trip. I'd do it, but my wife would likely say that's $24/hour hardly worth it, better to pay.

My thinking is that in a perfect world, an ordinary person doesn't pay $12 more maybe the choice is more reasonable, like $5? CA and MD have these themes, pay to get somewhere quicker.

I randomly looked at two PA Turnpike exits next to each other, Valley Forge and Norristown. 6.66 miles. It's $2.30 E-ZPass. Once again, 34.5 cents per mile. I'm not sure what exit works out to 10.

The next set, Norristown to Fort Washington, 5.08 miles. $1.60 E-ZPass, 31.4 cents per mile. To me, it looks like the road is designed to be in the 30 cent/mile + range.

Based on your calculations, the per mile cost is unreasonable especially for short trips. I can't believe that Pennsylvanians have not protested.

take a step back

and have a laugh...

Valley Forge and Norristown. 6.66 miles. $2.30 E-ZPass. 34.5 cents per mile.

Norristown to Fort Washington, 5.08 miles. $1.60 E-ZPass, 31.4 cents per mile.

Expensive.

No, it's not, you've selected unrealistic areas.

Can you imagine living in Norristown, Fort Washington, Valley Forge? For your area to be deemed, unrealistic! lol

In reality it's what made the Showtime Rotisserie Oven and Ronco so great. it was all a show!

I think back, and am very glad someone here pointed out 43F coming out my supplies 1 year ago, was unacceptable. Imagine if 43F or a 31F delta were a similar spectacle!

Also noteworthy, I took that I-95 bridge, Scudders Falls today. $1.25, I'll live, was very smooth.

Inverse Relationship

There is an inverse relationship between the size of the state traversed, and the amount of tolls collected!

John, please clarify

johnnatash4 wrote:

I think back, and am very glad someone here pointed out 43F coming out my supplies 1 year ago, was unacceptable. Imagine if 43F or a 31F delta were a similar spectacle!

John, can you clarify what you meant by the paragraph above? I don't find anywhere that someone "...pointed out 43F coming out my supplies 1 year ago, was unacceptable."

What is 43F or a 31F?

--
John from PA