PA Proposes Tolls On Nine Interstate Bridges

We already see the effects of long haul truckers avoiding the turnpike by going down our main street here in Ephrata (US 322). Worse for me, trips West back to Ohio are typically taken on I-80 to avoid the turnpikes and if this change goes through, I may as well take the turnpikes instead.

goes back to something my dad explained when I was a little kid. he said when a bridge is constructed there's a charter and tolls have something to do with how they're going to be paid for.

But now I think it's a free for all.

For example, for more than a century, those bridges that cross from Manhattan to Brooklyn were free, and the MTA was looking at tolling them, since they always run a deficit and this could help.

How about the Henry Hudson Bridge, $2.80 with a NY E-ZPass, and $7 for any other E-ZPass or toll by plate?

Or I-95 south from NJ to PA (Scudder Falls Bridge), suddenly has a toll installed?

I am not opposed to increasing tolls, and whatever process of review that goes through, in principle.

But to install a toll where it never existed before, is fishy at minimum.

Again, as far as being, "to help pay for their replacement or rehabilitation," what does the charter say?

the more I live in this state the more I come to realize, it's poorly managed...

edit removed my opinion on the proposed state income tax rate increase, but just look at our typical property tax, compared to Mass.

Our homes are valued at about 1/3, yet taxes the same.

I get that homes don't exist in Mass that cost how little they do in PA, but at least their school systems are top notch. Other than specialized ones, PA can't even be in the top 200 in the nation! 200! (public HS)

We need a national standard for toll passes. There is the big boy, E-Z, and Florida has one and Colorado has one. There are likely others too.

two prices imho were started by New York, but maybe someone else can be certain.

Now everyone does it. I remember the MD toll was $8 for me, $6 for those who had a MD tag, on and on and on. But NY is extreme--$2.80 v $7.

The net of that is we can save potentially 15 min+ when paying that $2.80, over I-87 S, because the $7 is a deterrent to using the bridge.

And yes, I have NJ and NY accounts. One does NOT have to live in NY to have a NY account, and it's free. Unlike NJ who charges $1/mo. I need NJ for the commuter discount from Phila to NJ. Actually not in the last year I didn't, but normally...

The Pennsylvania Turnpike east west is $112.91 for a passenger car. That price tag skyrockets to more than $600 for a Class 8, five-axle vehicle.

When I make that trip from SE PA to Lorain OH, there are always stops at the Penn State Creamery. On the return, typically about (6) 1/2 gallons make it home. Some of the best ice cream in the world!

In case you haven't traveled it lately I-95 from just past PA 413, (going north) to the PA line (and beyond through NJ) was designated I-295 and all the exit numbers were changed accordingly from that point to the Scutter Falls bridge. I-95 now has a ramp that puts it onto the last portion of the PA Turnpike going east and now connects with the NJ portion of I-95 and connects to the NJTP.

For a history of the bridge, and the eventual tolling of it, can be found here: https://www.scudderfallsbridge.com/

and here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scudder_Falls_Bridge

A very short summary, the bridge is being completely replaced, it is half finished now. The second span is still being constructed. The Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission (DRJTBC) voted to toll the Scutter Falls bridge in 2009, to help pay for the cost of rebuilding it. They didn't apply the toll until 2019.

The DRJTBC is funded solely by tolls collected at its eight current toll bridges; it receives no gasoline tax revenues or state or federal support.

is the only system that I know of, when you drive through with E-ZPass, there is no acknowledgement that your tag was read. Then again it's been a full year, maybe tolls are gone (booths) and it's all high speed now with a gantry.....

The new system doesn’t give you any indication your ez pass was read. It took 2 weeks to you the money taken from my account. Also, the gantry placement doesn’t seem to make any sense to their placement.

Many states are facing up to the fact that gasoline state tax revenues, supposedly used to fund highway and bridge maintenance, are falling steadily and will continue to fall as electric-battery vehicles take over.

So to make up for the shortfall in revenue, many are considering taxing drivers by mile driven. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/states-move-closer-to-taxing-yo...

How that would dovetail with toll roads, gas- vs. electric-powered engines, and out-of-state travel so that people aren't paying two or three times for the same trip remains to be seen.

I get daily email legislative updates from the Pennsylvania House & Senate. I remember reading someone introducing a bill that addressed this, loss of revenue and charging by the mile for electric vehicles last year. I don't recall seeing any discussion or votes on it though. January started a new 2 year legislative session so it would have to be introduced again if anyone was interested in the topic again.

The article above mentioned privacy concerns and PA has written such concerns into other law. For example, we have red light and speed cameras. The cameras are not allowed to take a photo of the front of a violating vehicle, the vehicle's owner gets a ticket, who may not have been the driver. The owner can fight the ticket if they weren't the driver, they need to prove they weren't driving it at the time, but do not have to say who was. So I can see the privacy thing being an issue here as well.

We drove to NYC and decided to come back through PA. On the route we continually got hammered by tolls on what seemed to be Interstate highways. It was $10 here, $5 there, and a $20 on one route. After that trip we have decided to bypass PA due to the unreasonable tolls paid on highways that were most likely funded with lots of Federal dollars.

PENNDOT is actually broke. They ran out of funds buying signs that read “uneven pavement”.

One reason for low funds is in a supposed cost SAVING move when they did away with the registration sticker 2017 on our license plate, save millions not having to produce and mail the stickers. What actually happened was a drop in people registering their vehicles.

Whether a missight or on purpose registrations have fallen drastically. Some folks figure the police can't tell if the vehicle up to date anymore with the sticker no longer required so why keep it up to date.

PennDot thought police departments would get the license plate readers and while some did, even with grants they couldn't afford to outfit all their vehicles with one. So a motorist getting caught being unregistered isn't very likely.

PennDot has lost so much they have asked lawmakers to reinstate the law requiring the stickers, the proposal went nowhere last legislative session which ended at the end of 2020. A renewed proposal was introduced recently.

It appears PennDot was trying to run this bridge tolling idea through without the General Assembly having enough time to have a say so in the matter, who now seeks to 'pause' the tolls:

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/Legis/CSM/showMemoPubli...

Paying by the mile is an idea that seems to be getting traction in some states. Just how they would track individual vehicle mileage isn't clear though.

One way would be to have mileage reported during the vehicle inspection process. Vehicle weight would also have to be figured into the equation.

Before I retired, I commuted 150 miles per day and this type of usage based taxation might be fair but it would have put a major crimp in the budget.

The plan looks good however for us retired folk who don't drive that many miles.

Usage taxation would be a much fairer way for state governments to fund schools instead of forcing property owners to foot the bill.

I think the exact methods of taxation can’t correlate well with fairness. Some may think that schools should be funded by those with children while others may believe that everyone benefits from good schools. Some may prefer no schools at all.

Some time way back in the 20th century we moved from MD to VA. Our taxes diminished significantly. It was a fair generalization that VA taxes were really lower than MD taxes. In VA though, there was a high ad valorem tax on autos. It drove the VAers nuts. OTOH no one ever said that while the ad valorem tax on autos was too high that the sales or real estate taxes were too low.

Working toward fair taxes is a worthwhile goal. Just don’t count on recognized success.

Given that Lancaster County has some of the best ice cream that I can imagine, even more ice cream on a road trip would be costly: to my waistline as well as the added weight reducing my gas mileage!

So in my daily legislative report I came across this today.

"Today, Pennsylvania’s system of roads and bridges, which is larger than New York’s, New Jersey’s, and New England’s combined, is primarily funded by user fees, such as fuel taxes. Although plug-in electric vehicles cause the same wear and tear on our roads as gas powered vehicles, they contribute substantially less in fuel taxes toward our transportation infrastructure due to Pennsylvania’s confusing and difficult to administer alternative fuel tax on electricity.

Currently, owners of plug-in electric vehicles should be filing monthly statements with the PA Department of Revenue and remitting the alternative fuel tax for how much electricity their vehicle uses. However, most electric vehicle owners don’t do this because the process for remitting the alternative fuel tax is cumbersome, or they are unaware that they have to.

To simplify the process and ensure that plug-in hybrid and electric vehicle owners are paying their fair share, my bill will eliminate the alternative fuel tax on electricity for noncommercial vehicles and replace it with annual electric vehicle fees of:

$15 for electric motorcycles and neighborhood electric vehicles;
$75 for plug-in hybrids;
$175 for electric vehicles that weigh up to 26,000 pounds; and
$250 for electric vehicles that weigh over 26,000 pounds.

When considering that the average gas powered car owner in Pennsylvania pays about $273 per year in state fuel taxes, the fees under my bill are more than fair and are comparable to the electric vehicle fees enacted in 28 other states.

Please join me in this effort to ensure all roadway users help to maintain our roads and bridges."

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/billinfo.cfm?s...

That seems a reasonable approach indeed. Which it means it has no chance lol.

I don't understand why in PA, everything that normal places do, is considered cumbersome?

I moved here in 1999, as was actually shocked when a date told me yeah it costs about $60/yr. to get your car inspected, with a coupon (I moved from NY where it was $14). Now that I've lived here and done inspections for nearly 2 decades, I see it going a couple of ways. Brand new car (I've bought 3 in my life, 2 in PA), they don't even bother to physically inspect for about 3 years. Then suddenly year 4, all 4 wheels are off and all kinds of recommended services (exception is BMW dealership who btw charges $41, less than a garage and they give a free loaner BWW).

Our inspections are not computerized decals, and here it is 2021. A human being hand writes a VIN number and places an X to indicate a wheel was removed for inspection.

Remember when Phila had their own registration stickers that were affixed to the rear glass? They all fell off and the response was to ticket them for failing to display. Residents of Phila said why should we be singled out for living in Phila county by that sticker, it's like a scarlet letter? My idea was, why doesn't Harrisburg call Albany, and ask what kind of glue they use, as their stickers seem to stay glued to glass?

Ok end rant. I'll just pay the proposed 43% increase to my state income taxes but if I do I say no tolls! lol

PA has been my home since 1999, so that means the majority of my life, but I'll be the first to say so many things don't make any sense here. For one, our property is 1/3 the value of NY and DC and Boston, yet, our property taxes are higher and we can't even have a public HS that is in the top 200 nationwide (I'm excluding the one's that are deemed special i.e. students apply to them like Stuyvesant Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech in NYC). I thought high taxes meant high services?

I will say this for PennDOT, however, a few weeks ago I went to get my Real ID. It was organized, only so many people let inside, and people were courteous. The only misstep was when I got to my booth, the woman said, "Where's your application?"

the person who screened me at the door didn't give me anything. I was sitting in a chair for 20 min. I could have easily filled out an application!

And I have seen license plates printed by a high quality printer such as an imageRUNNER. Let's be realistic--no degree of non factory window tint is legal in PA. However, there are cars driving around with windows and windshields completely black. If they're not pulled over and the tint scraped off by a man in brown, then obviously having a printed fake license plate isn't going to garner any attention either. The tip off is usually the font of the letters and numbers--they are totally squared. On a real plate, the numbers are ever so taller than the letters.

And now people might say, yeah, but that's fraud, would anyone go to jail over that?

Here's the beauty of it. My buddy was hit by someone who had this fake registration--he thought, even though the guy is uninsured, at least his car will be confiscated. No, the cop let the guy drive off, no registration and per my buddy no license that he could produce. WTH.

Can I go on? I bought a used car in NYS in 2016--you cannot leave the dealer lot without a valid insurance card having the VIN of the vehicle. In PA, you have 30 days hahahahahahahahahahahaha we bought a car on Labor Day weekend 2011 the dealer said we don't need any insurance you just have to take care of it within 30 days your current policy covers this new car

We have had an issue in NY for a few years with the colored lettering peeling off the plates to the point they can't be read. It's a problem for the ez pass readers. Does anyone get a ticket? Probably not because there has never been anything in the news about tickets for unreadable plates.

If you have the time the backroads and smaller towns in PA are fun to travel. Watch out for the Amish horse drawn carriages in some parts of the state.

The safety inspection in PA costs around $25. It's the emissions test that makes the bill high. Shops had to foot the cost of high tech emission equipment, if they wanted to keep doing the emission portion. Some only do the safety now, and there are parts of the state that don't require it. My local guy told me it cost $30,000 to install the new emissions crap.

The Philly special registration stickers looked like a post it note and applied inside the rear window, if it had one, lots of trucks didn't. The reason they had those was people were cutting the corners of people plates off to steal the stickers on the plate. That's why you used to see some folks put the sticker in the center of the plate instead of the corners where they were supposed to be.

There was a few years where the inspection and emission stickers would peel off the windshield by the end of its cycle. I haven't had that problem for a while now. As for not inspecting a new car, they are required to, maybe you've had lazy station do your cars. They are still charging full price, they should do the inspection. There has been legislation proposed to issue a sticker valid for longer than a year, maybe 3 or 4 I forget, for a brand new car. It hasn't passed so far.

You mentioned tint in another post. Most departments in our part of the state won't bother you, they have better things to do, but a good part of the state is rural and in those towns the cops will bother you for tint. I have a Jeep Wrangler, around here cops don't really bother you for oversized tires, no fenders, no covers on auxiliary lights etc. People I know in the rural areas tell me they will bother you for that stuff where they live.

It's hit n miss here in PA, what's important to the police in one part of the state, isn't in others.

In NYS, they do have time to bother with such obvious violations, such as when one cannot see into a vehicle? Out comes the gauge, and scraping begins.

But to be able to print a license plate on a Canon imageRUNNER, and drive around, is really over the top imho. Like I said, whomover is providing them (I've only seen them, have never touched it) is I'm sure printing on high quality media, but the letters and numbers are completely square, a dead giveaway it's counterfeit. Others simply put a cover on the plate to make it unreadable, again, this is fine in PA but not NY.

My wife's GM car, if the OBDII is reset, or battery removed or replaced, it takes about 800 miles to have the EVAP go into a ready state. Connect a reader and it will say I/M = No. I've even followed the GM drive cycle to a T and doesn't work. Shop told me sounds about right just drive normally and keep checking.

So when this happened this year, I said sc*** being a goody two shoes, we're just gonna drive with an expired sticker, and explain, the shop told us even though the internet says you can have one category in a not ready state and pass (even in Calif. which is the strictest), the shop told me no and it's no big deal, just come back when it's ready. So I literally said for the first time in my life we're gonna be like Jesse James or Bonnie and Clyde and not care. The net net is now our window says 10/21, it would have said 9/21, so the inspection month changed.

The funniest is when it's July and you can inspect July/Aug/Sept vehicles (PA makes up rules as they go along). Once we went in July, with a Sep sticker, and the dealer put on a Aug sticker. When I brought it to their attention they said nope, you came in with an Aug sticker. I then said well this pic on my phone says you're wrong--SA sees it and says nope tech said August.

Jack Nicholson mode, where I gave him his options.

As far as tolls my buddy texted me how can I get into NY any carpool rate still exist? Google and seems to be Lincoln and upper level GWB. Why pay $11.75 or $13.75 when you can pay ugh $7.75 (29% increase is better than double)

Emission testing in the Denver metropolitan area (six counties) is done by trucks on interstate entrance ramps doing drive-by analysis.

You might be interested in this proposed legislation HB1136 (Pennsylvania)

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/billinfo.cfm?s...

Here's the introduction memo:

The logic fails. My E-ZPass started with DRPA, and I live in PA. It was converted to NJ E-ZPass. So how am I now an out-of-stater? The DRPA was required for the bridge toll commuter discount.

The Scudders Falls Bridge is tolled by the DRJTBC. Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission.

How many commissions does a relatively small river need, to toll its crossings? I guess it's determined by how many executive positions, board positions, company vehicles, free tags for friends and family.

I've lived in PA for 20 years, and it is one messed up place on many things. It's also a nice place to live. Go figure. We were first to say hey you need to report anything you bought that was not taxed on your state income tax. Why?

But that 43% increase was really something. I can't find anything more about it. Billionaires ought to think a little harder about whom they group into the category of being rich, like they are. Put it this way, I'd have to go back but pretty sure for a single person the number was like $49,000/yr

Do we ever stop, for one second, and think, our public HS do not stack up nationally, yet our taxes are higher? In the entire Phila area I can name only 2 public HS that can say they are top 200 in the nation. If you want to include a special school in Phila then 3. Compare that to Mass. where a million dollar home has maybe $10k in property taxes, yet every public school system kicks a**.

Why don't you compare it to New York? Where an average simple house is $700,000, taxes are $15K and schools suck a** so bad you pay $20K more a year per kid for private school that does not suck a**.

Also the public school superintendent makes $500,000/yr to sit at home in his pajamas all day to decide which days kids get to go to school!

I need to move out of New York now that work from home is permanent.

You don't have a billionaire governor so I don't know what happenned, oh wait...

I will say this much. I was a huge fan of your governor's dad. He and his brother sort of lend to the theory how successful family businesses are out of business by the 3rd generation on average. They renamed the Tappan Zee Bridge after your dad, you'd think you could do honor to his legacy?

The scenario I always found interesting. People work in Manhattan, live in NJ. Very common.

This employee will pay state taxes to NYS. For this, they get a credit to offset their NJ income tax, and only pay the difference to NJ, of NJ-NY=difference. Imagine that?

At any rate, in PA, as long as we ignore our schools, and the real estate values not going up until recently, I think we actually can feel happy relative to our neighbors (seriously). Can't have it all unless one can afford MASS! but then there are another set of problems...(very competitive)

Back to the original topic, though, I don't feel the rate nor raising rates is really the answer, or getting into that game where not a PA tag, higher rate. As I pointed out, I am a PA resident, got a DRPA tag in 2001, and it was converted to NJ, through no action nor choice of my own. Why wasn't it converted to PA? I should not have to pay more, I live here....