450km/4.5hr trip - Garmin says 1850km/23.5hrs

 

nuvi 68LM wants to take me on a Great Circle route from Ottawa, Ont. to Oakville area west of Toronto.

I have nuvi set to avoid highways/freeways/motorways and also toll-roads.

There a re multiple roads west and south of Ottawa that will take me in the general direction, and many choices parallel to the east-west 401.

I have done this trip more or less same area, so I have already a rough idea of the route

nuvi wants me to go north from Ottawa into Quebec, hwy 105, then 117 to Val d'Or, west to Timmins, Ont. and eventually south to either The Soo, or Sudbury (I simply zoomed way out on the Garmin, I did not scroll thru' the thousands of turns), and eventually south again.

I would not normally punch in my destination until I was about 50-100km out from it anyway, and I'm sure that by that time nuvi will come up with a decent route.

But I am curious as to why this calculation.

Tried "fastest" and "shortest" in Settings - same result. Latest 2020.30. No other issues.

Perhaps the nuvi being set

Perhaps the nuvi being set to avoid, highways/freeways/motorways is the cause.

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Nüvi 3790

Tolls?

See what happens if you keep the same restrictions but eliminate the toll restriction. I remember reading here of routes with and without tolls between the USA and Canada in the eastern North America (maybe Quebec/NewYork) where a toll restriction forced a route through Michigan to avoid a toll bridge. surprised

Yep

For sure that will be the issue, remove the restrictions and all should be well.

--
Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

A toll restriction in Upstate NY to get to Canada will create

a major issue. There is a toll on I 90 along the north corridor and tolls in/out of Canada. This could be an issue within Canada. He should remove the restiction and see what happens.

CraigW wrote:

See what happens if you keep the same restrictions but eliminate the toll restriction. I remember reading here of routes with and without tolls between the USA and Canada in the eastern North America (maybe Quebec/NewYork) where a toll restriction forced a route through Michigan to avoid a toll bridge. surprised

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Nuvi 2460LMT.

The

The avoid toll roads could be the issue here BUT avoiding highways, in by opinion, would cause all kinds of issues on this route.

--
Nuvi 350, 760, 1695LM, 3790LMT, 2460LMT, 3597LMTHD, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, DriveSmart 61, Garmin Backup Camera 40 and TomTom XXL540s.

Agree

I agree. Avoidance issues, probably.

I once set up a test route between Kansas City and Denver avoiding toll roads and freeways, etc. That was an eye-opener.

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I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

450 km/4.5hr trip

I was wondering why one would avoid highways as most every road is a highway.HWY 7,2 401 17,60 are all highways.The only way around this I see is to use back roads and county roads.Very slow and the quality of road could be suspect.

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The Home of BLUMARU HOUNDS

And

coonhunter wrote:

Very slow and the quality of road could be suspect.

And this time of year, possibly snow covered and/or very slick in that part of Ontario.

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Nuvi 350, 760, 1695LM, 3790LMT, 2460LMT, 3597LMTHD, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, DriveSmart 61, Garmin Backup Camera 40 and TomTom XXL540s.

Watch out for toll road avoidance of going to another country.

ddgm91 wrote:

Perhaps the nuvi being set to avoid, highways/freeways/motorways is the cause.

Many border crossing have a toll component. This is generally the case if you have a bridge over a waterway, such as Detroit/Windsor, Sarnia/Port Huron, Niagara Falls.

As a result it could send you a very long way out of your way, until it finds a non toll border crossing.

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NUVI2555LMT, NUVI350

Rochester to Toronto with no tolls

Back roads or Rt 104 to I81 to 1000 islands (there might be a toll here. I seem to remember a route having to go to Rouses Point which is the tip of Lake George). Then down the northern shore of Lake Ontario to get to Toronto.

GPSgeek wrote:
ddgm91 wrote:

Perhaps the nuvi being set to avoid, highways/freeways/motorways is the cause.

Many border crossing have a toll component. This is generally the case if you have a bridge over a waterway, such as Detroit/Windsor, Sarnia/Port Huron, Niagara Falls.

As a result it could send you a very long way out of your way, until it finds a non toll border crossing.

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Nuvi 2460LMT.

There is no need to cross a

There is no need to cross a border to get from Ottawa, ON to Oakville. ON. As far as I know, the only toll road for that journey would be the 407, which is easily avoidable. That is the reason I didn't mention the toll road avoidance being set as the 407 is grossly over charged and one would normally wish to avoid it.

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Nüvi 3790

It's NOT the Toll Roads

ddgm91 wrote:

There is no need to cross a border to get from Ottawa, ON to Oakville. ON. As far as I know, the only toll road for that journey would be the 407, which is easily avoidable. That is the reason I didn't mention the toll road avoidance being set as the 407 is grossly over charged and one would normally wish to avoid it.

Yes Sir, you are correct. I do not know why everyone above your reply felt I had to cross any border, or use any USA/Canada toll bridge. (Geez guys, read the friggin' question)

My experience with 4 models of nuvi over the years is that "Highway" refers to 4-lane (or more), *limited access* roads, e.g. all the 400-series highways in Ontario. There is a toll-road Highway 407 that it would avoid, but there is also the old "highway", 2-lane, right beside it.

Yes, in common parlance any paved road with a line down the middle will be a "highway" but in Garmin-speak they are just "roads".

There is a 2-lane Highway 7 (commonly called) all the way from Ottawa to west of Toronto that it could have routed me, and Garmin has been perfectly happy to route me onto it many times before.

So, there is something else going on here.

Well ...

As I said, remove ALL avoidances and see what happens smile

Using the latest map I get a route of 485 km

--
Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

We made no assumption about a border crossing or bridge

oldboy wrote:

It's NOT The Toll Roads...

We didn't think there was a border crossing or bridge although we did give examples of wildly different routes depending upon the avoidance settings.

What was suggested is to see what happens when you remove a toll avoidance or highway avoidance. Inherent in the replies would be that if you found that tolls weren't the issue and the route was very large again, that one of the other avoidances was causing a route with a large inflated total distance. By removing each and rechecking the route, or by an inspection of the mapped route, you may find what's going on.

If you re-do the route without individual avoidances, we'd like to read what you found to be the cause because it is interesting to us.

One last thought: a map could incorrectly be coded to include a feature that doesn't exist, and if at a critical location and if that feature is set as an avoidance, a wild route could be created. I'm just thinking of how this could arise unexpectedly so as to cause the shock you found.

The good news is that you didn't create a route with the avoidances, then blindly follow the route and wonder why you weren't there after five hours!

And ...

Not yet mentioned, but worth a thought if removing avoidances doesn't change things, have you recently done a map or software update or both? If so a master reset should resolve your problem.

--
Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

I tried routing with all and

I tried routing with all and none avoidances, and the worst I got was a 6 hour route, but the milage was about 100 miles, (160 KM) shorter. It would show up as a very straight route through the wood.

55 DriveSmart.

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Frank Nuvi 3597LMT 37.322760, -79.511267

Google maps interesting

If you use Google maps for the point to point route you can perhaps better understand why the difference. Once you have the map, go to options and toggle "Avoid highways" and "Avoid tolls" into an ON/OFF state. You will find that avoiding tolls barely changes the time/distance where avoiding highways has a major impact.

The link below should get you the map.

https://goo.gl/maps/JTjEPgfW9LRr4rri7

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John from PA

Very nice

John from PA wrote:

If you use Google maps for the point to point route you can perhaps better understand why the difference. Once you have the map, go to options and toggle "Avoid highways" and "Avoid tolls" into an ON/OFF state. You will find that avoiding tolls barely changes the time/distance where avoiding highways has a major impact.

The link below should get you the map.

https://goo.gl/maps/JTjEPgfW9LRr4rri7

Very nice. Thank you. It also supports sussamb's latest thought of doing a hard reset of the OP's device.

calculation type

What setting you have for road calculation? Fastest or shortest? It will affect road calculation, as with "fastest" route GPS will try to find fastest roads, even if it will make far more miles to travel. Try "shortest" setting. It will use every kind of route, even smallest one, to find shortest route. With this setting problem is, that device may be unable to calculate longer trips, as it may exceed number of points that device can use to plot route.

Reset

Yes, if I remove avoidances of "highways" and "Toll Roads" I get a roughly 5hr trip of 426Km.

With a hard reset and avoidances set, it still goes back to 1800km/23hrs.

Device software already updated according to Garmin Express.

But the whole POINT of the exercise is to avoid 400-series highways, and also toll roads (Hwy 407)

If it can route me onto 2-lane roads for 1,000km thru' northern Ontario and Quebec, Why can't it route me on to the almost direct 2-lane route of Hwy 7 from Ottawa to Toronto.

As a test, I had it find a route (with my usual avoidances) to Peterborough, approx. half-way from Ottawa to Toronto. It sends me on an unnecessarily complicated route getting out of Ottawa, but then puts me onto Hwy 7 (eventually) for the remainder.

To get me from here to there it could as easily sent me on a 1000km trip by really-back back roads, but didn't.

Perhaps Garmin has modified its definition of "Highway", but avoiding them has up til now always allowed me all the 2-lane roads.

"...other major routes"

Found this on a Garmin (GB) support page:

"Avoidances:
Highways or Motorways – The Highways or Motorways avoidance will avoid highways, interstates, freeways, motorways, and other major routes."

So, under "major routes" it could be a bit of a crap-shoot. Quite likely that *some* portions of a 2-lane road will be considered Highway, and some won't.

But trying to figure out what Garmin thinks is major route is probably impossible, and always shifting anyway.

What is really needed (and browsing the Factory and other GPS forums I am not the only one wanting to do this), some of us need an Avoidance that is specifically multi-lane, limited-access Freeways/Motorways and the "400s" (as we in Canada don't really have our own name for them).

Maybe try Custom avoidances

oldboy wrote:

Yes, if I remove avoidances of "highways" and "Toll Roads" I get a roughly 5hr trip of 426Km.

With a hard reset and avoidances set, it still goes back to 1800km/23hrs.

Device software already updated according to Garmin Express.

But the whole POINT of the exercise is to avoid 400-series highways, and also toll roads (Hwy 407)

If it can route me onto 2-lane roads for 1,000km thru' northern Ontario and Quebec, Why can't it route me on to the almost direct 2-lane route of Hwy 7 from Ottawa to Toronto.

As a test, I had it find a route (with my usual avoidances) to Peterborough, approx. half-way from Ottawa to Toronto. It sends me on an unnecessarily complicated route getting out of Ottawa, but then puts me onto Hwy 7 (eventually) for the remainder.

To get me from here to there it could as easily sent me on a 1000km trip by really-back back roads, but didn't.

Perhaps Garmin has modified its definition of "Highway", but avoiding them has up til now always allowed me all the 2-lane roads.

I see from the manual that the 68LM offers Custom Avoidances, specifically Highways and Areas. I bet you could have your GPS create a non-hwy shorter-than-23.5-hr route by disabling the highway/toll avoidance and set a custom avoidance of the big highways between your start and destination. Ditto for creating a Custom Area avoidance that would force the GPS to avoid the highways you want to stay away from.

Another option would be to try a route without any custom avoidances but rather add some 'via' points for the route that would take you on the back roads you want. In the above link offered by another user, you could set a via for places like Arnprior, Bancroft, Kawartha Lakes and Georgina. That would still let the GPS create the route without having to use BaseCamp to create a specific route that you want, then transfer it to the GPS.

It does still seem odd that your 68 has such a wild route with your two avoidances. I wonder if the two-digit series like your nuvi 68 use a less sophisticated routing algorithm compared to the 3 and 4-digit nuvis and Drives.

Check the manual

This PDF has some instructions on how to avoid a road or an area:
https://support.garmin.com/support/manuals/manuals.htm?partN...

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Lives in Edmonton AB A volunteer driver for Drive Happiness.ca and uses a 2689 to find my way.

As mentioned before

What is the point of setting a highway avoidance? This should mean the GPS will try and route you via any tiny road, dirt or otherwise to arrive at the destination. This means it will chose a convoluted route rather than a more direct route.
My GPS is set in Canada and the USA to avoid toll roads and ferry crossings and that's it.
In Mexico I change that to take as many toll roads as are along my route.

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Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, SmartDrive 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

routing issue "fix" by enabling avoid ferries

oldboy wrote:

nuvi 68LM wants to take me on a Great Circle route from Ottawa, Ont. to Oakville area west of Toronto.

I have nuvi set to avoid highways/freeways/motorways and also toll-roads.

Well oldboy that's a very strange routing problem. I can duplicate it on my 2595 with 2020.30 maps and 8.30 firmware. The route takes me way up north/west from Ottawa then on a ferry from Manitoulin Island to Tobermory, and then south to Oakville.

Speaking of ferries, if you also turn on avoid ferries, the routing fixes itself and becomes a "normal" 504 km / 7:20 minute trip.

There seems to be some sort of Bermuda Triangle involving the Rideau River and Heron Rd (this is with highways and tolls avoidances on and ferries off).

Starting from University of Ottawa generates a 1852 km 26:52 trip, and from Carleton University generates a 2191 km 31:49 trip.

Moving a bit south and starting from Hog's Back Park also generates the screwy routing. But if you move a short distance away to the CRA building on Heron Rd across the Rideau River, you get a normal route.

Starting from the suburbs (e.g. Nepean or Rockcliffe Park) generates normal routes too.

Very strange. Thanks for the interesting puzzle!

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DriveAssist 50 (stolen), Nüvi 2595LMT

Now, That's Perseverance

WAASup, you are way more persevering than I am.

It did not occur to me to try this from anywhere other than home. I did get a result much more realistic when I was about half-way (Port Perry).

Your Bermuda Triangle theory might also explain why, when I am about 3-4 hours away from Ottawa and ask for "Go Home", just to check my timing, the nuvi adds 2-3 hours to the trip. I've just never bothered to check where it is sending me.

This might also explain why certain POIs, for the same locations from trip to trip, never show on the screen even though I am standing right next to it. If I display the list it shows, and if I ask for info I see the icon, and *then* when I go back to Map-view it's suddenly there. (subject for another thread).

My trip by the way was about 6 hours, and 425km each way, give or take.

Thanks for the experimenting - will try myself some time.

Yet ...

... as I posted I got a pretty much expected route having removed all avoidances, no need to select avoid ferries. I do however regularly master reset my devices wink

--
Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

comment about ferry setting.

sussamb wrote:

... as I posted I got a pretty much expected route having removed all avoidances, no need to select avoid ferries. I do however regularly master reset my devices wink

I think avoiding ferries can be a troublesome setting, especially if you aren't familiar with a given route. With a relatively 2689, I was making the trip from Charleston SC to Williamsburg VA. The 2689 had been set for shortest time and by default the ferry setting allowed use of a ferry. Well into the trip my wife (with a map) noticed that it was using a route that would use a ferry. But to return to other highways wasn't then practical. How time is calculated for a very short ferry trip is unknown, but I can tell you it likely doesn't take into account any wait time for the ferry (which was about a 1/2 hour). Fortunately I was due for my afternoon nap anyway. smile

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John from PA

Exact routing

When I planned motorcycle trips and wanted to avoid Interstates, I would use BaseCamp and establish the exact roads I wanted to travel. Put in a start point and end point first, then slowly drag the lines to the roads you want. After a few forced changes, the system will usually get the idea and fill in between waypoints on roads you would want. After a few trip planning routes, BaseCamp will get easier to utilize.

Good luck on your trip planning.

Ferries - it all depends

For example, if you're visiting Prince Edward Island in Canada and have ferry and toll avoidances set, you're not getting off the island (unless you fly) smile

It happened to me once when I was travelling back to NB after a day trip to PEI. A two hour trip was showing as 6+ hours. My normal "avoid tolls" setting was forcing a ferry ride to NS then on to NB...

oldboy you're welcome wink The ferry avoidance in your case was to force the Garmin to not take the ferry from Manitoulin Island to Tobermory

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DriveAssist 50 (stolen), Nüvi 2595LMT

Disagree somewhat

WAASUp, I have my Garmin set to avoid tolls in Canada and the USA but my Garmin does not try to reroute when I want to cross the Ambassador bridge which does require a bridge toll. That is unless the Garmin is smart enough to know that that is not a toll road but a bridge toll.

I also did PEI and took the "free crossing" ferry to PEI and no problem with my GPS getting me to the ferry. Also leaving the island I took the 14 km Confederation bridge back to the mainland since you only pay leaving the island and the bridge is almost half the cost compared to the ferry.

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Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, SmartDrive 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.