Self Driving Cars

 

I'm curious about a number of aspects about self driving cars, but I will restrict my question to three items. Hopefully someone can help me understand.

I know the car has many sensors, but I've also seen suggestions that you have to clean the snow from sensors, at the present time. Will the car work in the winter?

If I want to go someplace now and know where and how to get there, I simply drive the roads to the destinations and make any changes to compensate for traffic, road detours etc. I presume, I will have to enter the address for each location, or select from a list in memory, so the car knows where to go. At present, I know how to get where I want, even if I don't know the address.

Many city streets and country roads do not have center line and shoulder markings. How will a self driving car determine where to drive?

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NUVI2555LMT, NUVI350

I would like to think self

I would like to think self driving cars are the future but I don't see it happening for many many years, not even close. Sure in the rural areas, it may be easy to plan and make work but in dense city traffic, no way.

Sure, the sensors will have to be cleared in the winter, maybe more likely is the car will need to be reverted back to a human taking over on the worst conditions.

I'm sure you'll have to enter the address but it shouldn't be too difficult with almost everyone carrying a cellphone.

I'll Probably Be Long Gone

team.rocket wrote:

I would like to think self driving cars are the future but I don't see it happening for many many years, not even close. Sure in the rural areas, it may be easy to plan and make work but in dense city traffic, no way.

Sure, the sensors will have to be cleared in the winter, maybe more likely is the car will need to be reverted back to a human taking over on the worst conditions.

I'm sure you'll have to enter the address but it shouldn't be too difficult with almost everyone carrying a cellphone.

I'll probably be long gone by the time they're ready.

I figured I'd be totally bored if I was letting the car drive.

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NUVI2555LMT, NUVI350

If the car is that smart I

If the car is that smart I would think the sensors would be self-cleaning.

Truly hands-free driving. But the nanny's would still want all cellphones off because they might interfere with the cars electronics, as they supposedly do in airplanes.

I can just imagine the first lawsuit because some car drove off a cliff while the occupants were napping.

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I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

Artificial intelligence decision

KenSny wrote:

If the car is that smart I would think the sensors would be self-cleaning.

Truly hands-free driving. But the nanny's would still want all cellphones off because they might interfere with the cars electronics, as they supposedly do in airplanes.

I can just imagine the first lawsuit because some car drove off a cliff while the occupants were napping.

Think about the scenario where the artificial intelligence has to figure out and avoidance procedure and no matter what, it does, someone will have to die. That will be a huge lawsuit.

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NUVI2555LMT, NUVI350

Thats the "Big" Elephant in the room

GPSgeek wrote:
KenSny wrote:

If the car is that smart I would think the sensors would be self-cleaning.

Truly hands-free driving. But the nanny's would still want all cellphones off because they might interfere with the cars electronics, as they supposedly do in airplanes.

I can just imagine the first lawsuit because some car drove off a cliff while the occupants were napping.

Think about the scenario where the artificial intelligence has to figure out and avoidance procedure and no matter what, it does, someone will have to die. That will be a huge lawsuit.

If you get hit by a self driving Vehicle, who is responsible? The Owner/Driver, the Car Company, the Computer Company that wrote the Program or manufactured it, just see all kinds of problems for the victim against "Big Money Company

Weather Impact

There's bound to be some impact to sensors from weather but I'm sure that they've thought through that just like forward collision, lane departure, automatic cruise control, parking sensors, etc. and other sensors already in place which work with or without snow and ice on the vehicle. For example, radar which detects how close you are to something works even if it's snowing and if the bumper has snow on it.

Technology is always moving forward and while there are many skeptics out there, I'm confident the bugs will be ironed out before long. No tech is perfect but it's "always on, always watching" is bound to be much more reliable and safer than the unpredictable and risky behavior humans engage in when driving!

Weather Schmether.. there seems to be a lot more to it

ptownoddy wrote:

Technology is always moving forward and while there are many skeptics out there, I'm confident the bugs will be ironed out before long. No tech is perfect but it's "always on, always watching" is bound to be much more reliable and safer than the unpredictable and risky behavior humans engage in when driving!

That may be a valid observation but, only true IFF (that's If and Only If) all the other vehicles on the roadways are self driving and can communicate their intentions with all the other cars within a "reasonable" proximity.

But throw one car onto the road that's controlled by a human and all bets are off!

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Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

There in lies the crux. The

There in lies the crux. The transition would mean having lanes only for self driving/networked cars, or more likely not lanes but separate highways. To much money to start another interstate system so it will have to integrate with what we have now. Self driving autonomous cars are at least 50 years or longer away. In the meantime, they will become smarter and safer.

Self Driving Cars

There was a thing on the news about them having problems recognizing or following street signs that were defaced with stickers/paint/physical damage/etc...

incredibly detailed maps are required

In the current approaches, the sensors are primarily there to detect changing things such as other cars and pedestrians. The place the road is, and far more detail than just that, is supplied as input information which you might choose to call a map, but is vastly more detailed than any map you have ever seen.

I believe in the current deployment the Google autonomous cars are limited to traveling down road segments which their own dedicated equipment has recently scanned in the required incredible detail.

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personal GPS user since 1992

I am

not holding my breath for that to become a reality!

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Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, SmartDrive 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

I do hope

I hope when that car is made available to the public I am still alive. I wonder how much will be our insurance rates since it has nothing to do now with your existing driving records. hmmmm....

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EGMJR

Long time for updates

archae86 wrote:

In the current approaches, the sensors are primarily there to detect changing things such as other cars and pedestrians. The place the road is, and far more detail than just that, is supplied as input information which you might choose to call a map, but is vastly more detailed than any map you have ever seen.

I believe in the current deployment the Google autonomous cars are limited to traveling down road segments which their own dedicated equipment has recently scanned in the required incredible detail.

Good luck with that. Look how long it can take to get a map update now. Also consider those glitches that end up with someone in a canal.

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NUVI2555LMT, NUVI350

Definitely not in bad weather

In rain or snow, can sensors see/detect roads. Lane markers are not visible, even in city. While driving in snow there are no lanes, even on divided roads, two lanes become one.

when I saw on tv

that 3 professionals in their late 20's stated no they do not know how to do laundry and laughed, it made me question whether not having to do things is a sign of prosperity, or it isn't. Like I heard many years ago, having a tan meant you were of the labor class, and today, it means you are wealthy and healthy and wise and all that.

So to not have to drive, is it a sign of first world wealth? Or laziness? Or both? Or neither?

Note: I'm one of those people who prefer to drive with a clutch, whether it's a twisty mountain road, or the George Washington Bridge backed up for 2 hours to get from one side to the other. That's what I prefer. I don't think this is that far fetched. What if a person could ride a stationary bike with some goggles that made it appear that they were riding in the Swiss Alps? Maybe the person says I'd still rather go outside, than ride in my living room. Who knows. And I get it--90% of trucks (as in tractor trailers) are automatic transmissions nowadays. The days of double-clutching through 18 gears is long gone, as is the UPS man who drove a stick shift, or the bus driver in the Simpsons.

If I'm still alive...

emercado wrote:

I hope when that car is made available to the public I am still alive. I wonder how much will be our insurance rates since it has nothing to do now with your existing driving records. hmmmm....

If the self driving cars become mainstream, if I'm still alive, I'm pretty sure I would need one.

On your topic of insurance, I think the rates are not only based on one's driving record but home location as well, so where you live will still play a large part of how much it is to cost. It is never going to cost less, the companies will find a reason for the increased cost justification.

Johnny Cab

And this is what robotic drivers fear most

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Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

Pittsburgh

Here in Pittsburgh, Uber has been testing driverless cars for two years. They operate in rain, snow and even our too infrequent sunshine. The Uber cars are a frequent sight in the Strip District. The roads in Pittsburgh are a particular challenge as we have weather, and the road layout is very complex with multiple roads coming together in unconventional intersections with off-angles and multiple roads. Traffic lights and signs are a bit hap-hazard, and we have a mix of heavy traffic, buses, pedestrians and bicycles.

There have been two collisions with the driverless cars to date, which might be a better record than human drivers have under these circumstances.

better, not perfection

GPS_Rider wrote:

There have been two collisions with the driverless cars to date, which might be a better record than human drivers have under these circumstances.

Many of the critiques voiced of autonomous cars essentially argue that they are unlikely to be perfect. But the minimum standard for them to be useful is that they be better in safety than humans. I think that is rather likely to be attainable. I suspect legal concerns and other considerations will hold them off large-scale use until they are not merely better, but considerably better.

This is more a criticism of human drivers than praise of the automatons.

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personal GPS user since 1992

Wow..

archae86 wrote:
GPS_Rider wrote:

There have been two collisions with the driverless cars to date, which might be a better record than human drivers have under these circumstances.

Many of the critiques voiced of autonomous cars essentially argue that they are unlikely to be perfect. But the minimum standard for them to be useful is that they be better in safety than humans. I think that is rather likely to be attainable. I suspect legal concerns and other considerations will hold them off large-scale use until they are not merely better, but considerably better.

This is more a criticism of human drivers than praise of the automatons.

This almost sounds as if there's an acceptable level of loss of life baked into the cake for autonomous cars for not being perfect... which isn't the goal I'd personally like to see...

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Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

automatic cars

wonder what computer system the car will use , will the system ever crash and have to be reset ? will hackers make them crash if you don't pay a ransom ? any new technology brings a new set of problems to deal with . maybe we will have cars like the jetsons that don't use the road and fly thru the air just think no more traffic jams ! but then again what if the car stalls oops.

what if

geo334 wrote:

fly thru the air just think no more traffic jams ! but then again what if the car stalls oops.

Airbags on the outside of the car so it will bounce...... or maybe by then anti-gravity will be applied to stop the fall.... or maybe it will land on a car below it and cause a chain reaction. So many scenarios so little time....

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I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

Drivers license required?

If they ever come up with a fully autonomous car that has no manual driving controls, I wonder if you will still need a drivers license to operate it? Would a child be allowed to operate it without an adult?

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Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

self driving algorithm needs work

Saw an episode of Motor Week on PBS. Someone reported going on a self driving test track and the car stopped upon approach of a steep incline. Car couldn't determine a road or wall. Great for driving in San Francisco hills. There are uphill and downhill streets that appears to end and all you see is sky.

Stratford, Ontario named as test center

Stratford, Ontario has been named as a testing center for self driving cars. Cars will drive on actual city streets.

Stratford is noted for its internationally renowned Shakespearean Festival. Now it's also known as a self driving car test center.

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/mobile/stratford-lands-testing-c...

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NUVI2555LMT, NUVI350

future cars

why would you pay for auto insurance if the car is a full control automatic car ? wouldn't it be the responsibility of the auto manufacture ? it would be just like taking the bus all you do is sit down and tell it where you want to go! "just a thought" they have cars out now where all you have to do is keep your hands on the wheel you don't have to press the break or the gas and if something runs out in front of you unexpectedly it hits the break or if a car goes in front of you your car slows down, it just scares me to know that sensors fail once in a while and we all know nothings perfect in the real world.

Driverless shuttle crashes hours after launch

This isn't good publicity for driverless vehicles!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/11/08/self-driving-shuttle-...

This did not "Stay in Vegas"!!!!

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Metricman Nuvi 660, GTM-20 Traffic Receiver Nuvi 3597 GTM-60 Traffic Receiver Williamsburg, VA

Fox News?

Many surveys have been published indicating those who follow it are the least informed compared to other sources. It is sometimes the case that the situation is worse than for those with no news source.

"A self-driving shuttle in Las Vegas got into an accident on its first day of service

Surprise: it was the human’s fault"

by Nick Statt@nickstatt Nov 8, 2017, 7:14pm EST

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/8/16626224/las-vegas-self-d...

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Ted - Garmin Nuvi 1450 LM

duplicate

Sorry...

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Ted - Garmin Nuvi 1450 LM

UBER

You can always take the "Pay as you go" approach and use Uber. Then all you have to do is fight the fraudulent charges to your account.

https://wccftech.com/uber-hack-attack-users-tweet/

No driver at all

As they are starting the totally no driver cars experiment in the Phoenix area, it will be fascinating to see how things go. At this point, I'm starting to trust technology more than human. Is it too early?

Welp, I'm no gastro-entymologist but ...

1) heated sensors with wipers
2) POI's? Think alta vista search with locations turned "on" on your cell phone
3) Cameras to detect roads and divide by two or detect cars in front?

Not such a high bar

jale wrote:

As they are starting the totally no driver cars experiment in the Phoenix area, it will be fascinating to see how things go. At this point, I'm starting to trust technology more than human. Is it too early?

That is just the point. While many people commenting are raising various concerns about how the driverless cars might not be perfect, the fact is they'll be an improvement if they are just better than humans.

Since we are actually rather bad drivers, this is not so very high a goal as it might seem. My bigger fear is that tens of thousands of lives will be lost because driverless cars will be needlessly delayed by legal concerns and regulatory hangups, as opposed to my fear that some lives will surely be lost because the driverless cars won't be perfect.

Balancing the two is the right thing, and moving on to make it better, once it gets going.

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personal GPS user since 1992

Already in Pittsburgh

The driverless cars have been running the streets of an area called the Strip District (it's a market area) in Pittsburgh for sometime. If you get up on the roof of some buildings (I'm in the elevator business) you can see their off street test track too. I was down in the Strip last week. You can't go 10 minutes without seeing one come by, they are everywhere. Uber is one of the companies running these gray SUVs. I didn't get the name off the red cars.

Since its still in the test phase they have a person sitting in the seat with their hands in their lap. The mechanic I was working with said they are in accidents fairly often though I haven't heard that from any other source.

A tenant in the building working for a German company had to go to Germany recently. He said the Uber cars are already driverless there. He admitted it was pretty weird. The car would start to go out of its lane and jerk back on course. He got to where he was going.

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Harley BOOM GTS, Zumo 665, (2) Nuvi 765Ts, 1450LMT, 1350LM & others | 2019 Harley Ultra Limited Shrine - Peace Officer Dark Blue

And now come Trucks and Buses

I still fear that big money Companies will insure that the victims (read Human Drivers) will always be guilty

I'm too paranoid ...

geo334 wrote:

wonder what computer system the car will use , will the system ever crash and have to be reset ? will hackers make them crash if you don't pay a ransom ? any new technology brings a new set of problems to deal with . maybe we will have cars like the jetsons that don't use the road and fly thru the air just think no more traffic jams ! but then again what if the car stalls oops.

I'm not interested even a little bit in self driving cars, after years of watching computers crashing getting hacked and generally not doing what you want ... I'll pass on computer controlled cars.

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. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Paranoid? Well..

Problems with hacking remotely "self-driving" cars are real. We already have reports of hacking Teslas, who are probably most advanced with remote driving. And it will become "sport" when there will be more remote cars on the road.

Chinese researchers were able to interfere with the car’s brakes, door locks and other electronic features, demonstrating an attack that could cause havoc

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/20/tesla-mod...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2017/07/28/chinese-group...

If you look at this you can see, that security wasn't any priority when cars were designed. Cars had had to be on the road as soon as possible, so security always takes hit. And if history of computers can teach you anything, it will be this: no remotely accessible computer system is safe from hacking. It's just matter of time and knowledge.

The day is coming but for many it is a long way off

It's coming but most of us here now won't be here to see it.

yup

grzesja wrote:

~snip~

if history of computers can teach you anything, it will be this: no remotely accessible computer system is safe from hacking. It's just matter of time and knowledge.

This is what I was alluding to, and yes, I've seen the reports on the cars being hacked, scary stuff.

Computers have helped us advance in many ways, but I also think in time they will be/are our downfall in many ways as well.

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. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .