Help buying a New SUV..

 

I am looking at buying a New SUV for my family. I hate going to a dealership just to haggle a price but it must be done.

Some of my requirements will be:

* looking to pay around $30,000-$40,000.

* Looking into a SUV AWD or 4 WHEEL. This car should have 7 or 8 person seating.

* My wife would like a Dark Red car, me Don't care

We are currently looing at 3 type of cars, A Honda Pilot, Toyota Highlander or a Jeep (Grand) Cherokee.

I am going to try to stay away from Fords.. I had 3 of them and everyone the transmission went on me.

Once I know the car, I will need advice what to say/Not say to dealerships in buying this car (want to pay cash for it btw)

Any help/Ideas/Support will be great!!

Bob

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

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Can of Worms

bobkz - man, have you opened a con of worms!

You will get all kinds of opinions.

I have 3:

1. DO NOT BUY A JEEP (or any Chrysler product). They are plagued with electrical problems. Example: My son has a Jeep Cherokee and his left taillight is out. It's not the bulb, socket or wiring - it's computer related. He's not alone, as hundreds of people are complaining about this problem and Chrysler has no answer! He has had several Jeeps and they all have had some sort of electrical malfunction.

2. BUY AMERICAN - if possible.

3. Stay away from the dealers that advertise, advertise, advertise! They claim to have the best deals, but how do you suppose they pay for all the ads? A small town dealer usually will offer a better price, due to lower overhead. Large volume dealers can offer good prices (when they are over-stocked), but shop around before you commit.

I was in the automotive industry for over 30 years including sales.

Buying a vehicle is usually determined by it's looks and/or power and it's functionality.

I suggest you read all the reviews you can find on your choices.

--
Metricman Nuvi 660, GTM-20 Traffic Receiver Nuvi 3597 GTM-60 Traffic Receiver Williamsburg, VA

Speaking of worms

Speaking of worms, when referring to vehicles what does Buy American mean? Just curious.

Does it mean a traditionally thought of as an American brand?

Does it mean assembled in the USA? Of course, technically Mexico and Canada are part of North America and the word American could add all of Central and South America.

Does it mean no foreign (Non-USA) parts? Are there any vehicles that meet this meaning?

Or ??

Buying a new SUV

Hi bobkz,

I refuse to haggle anymore for a car. It's the worst experience there is. I am a member of Costco. The last 2 cars we purchased, I just got the dealership that Costco works with and then emailed the internet guy and got the Costco price, no haggling. I can't remember if he emailed me back or I had to go in. I think I may have had to go in.

They give you the Costco price and then try to make a ton of add ons to make more money. I've always just stuck with the Costco price and no other dealer add ons.

I think there are a number of different outfits now that do the same thing. You can always just call the dealership internet seller and get a quote from them. My daughter in law sells cars at a new car dealership. She is the internet sales rep. Lately she has made as little as $100 on a sale and as much as $3000 on a sale. The $100 was an internet customer.

Good luck starting the process we all have learned to hate.

--
Dudlee

I just purchased my first

I just purchased my first brand new car about 6 months ago. I started my car shopping by researching how much others paid for that same vehicle I'm interested in. In this internet age, that information is very easy to find (eg: discussion forums). I also check truecar.com to see the price range (lowest to highest) everyone pays for the car. Going to the dealership blind (not knowing how much you're supposed to pay) is the worst idea. Get as much info as you can before visiting a dealer. Don't forget to pray too.

I ended up paying thousands below MSRP and that includes tax, registration, documentation etc. In other words, the out the door price I paid was thousands below sticker price (I paid cash, just like what you plan to do). Truecar considers it an exceptional deal. I don't mind giving car dealers profit and they should make a profit. I refuse to be taken for a ride if I don't know anything about the reasonable price for the car. I think I did good enough for a first time new car buyer.

Oh btw, I'm surprised that the sales pitch never ends... even at the very last step, that is the dealer financial department (where they prepare all DMV and payment paperworks for the car). The financial guy asks if I want to get an add-on alarm that enables shock sensor for around $700. The factory installed alarm does not have shock/vibration sensor. I refuse the offer.

.

Dudlee wrote:

I think there are a number of different outfits now that do the same thing. You can always just call the dealership internet seller and get a quote from them. My daughter in law sells cars at a new car dealership. She is the internet sales rep. Lately she has made as little as $100 on a sale and as much as $3000 on a sale. The $100 was an internet customer.

Good luck starting the process we all have learned to hate.

www.truecar.com will submit request to dealers closest to the zip code where you live. The dealers will send you email with several offers. You can deal with them over email. I don't really enjoy talking to sales people, so I did the haggling over email. It benefits me too because now I have something written as opposed to verbal communications over the phone which can be easily denied.

NA cars

As CraigW mentions, cars these days are only assembled in the USA or Canada mostly from parts that come from all over the world.

Just go to any NA automakers employee parking lot and take notice of what the employees drive.

In my opinion you should have a look at the Hyundai Santa Fe.
Hyundai has one of the longest warrantee of any automaker. As well as better pricing.
Friends just bought a Hyundai Sonata and their son-in-law works at a dealer. His comment is that the only time they see them come in is for oil changes.

https://m.hyundaiusa.com/assurance/america-best-warranty.htm...

7 Passenger Santa Fe: https://www.hyundaiusa.com/santa-fe/index.aspx

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, 3790LMT passed on to my daughter. Using Windows 10

sign up for consumer reports

My last five cars were bought based on the recommendations of Consumer Reports, an independent testing organization. They have a great deal of information. You may find that some of your proposed choices are not recommended.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/index.htm

If you do not want to haggle or deal with the dealer, Consumer Reports' buying service is www.truecar.com
That is how my daughter bought her car; a home run all the way.

dobs108 smile

The last time I bought a new

The last time I bought a new vehicle was in 2004. I don't drive that much and the vehicle I bought in 2004 currently has only 47K miles.

At the time I purchased the Consumer Reports car buying package, which was $35 if I recall correctly. I also used a website, Carsdirect.com, that I found more helpful than Consumer Reports as the website would price out a vehicle they could deliver to you at the quoted price. This appears to have changed with a quick review of the pricing tool on their current website.

I visited a couple of dealerships but it was next to impossible to get a verbal price quote. The salesperson wants to corral you into how much you want to pay as a monthly payment. Asking for a cash price on a car at a dealership does not seem to compute.

In the end I used the Carsdirect.com price and I deducted $200 from that as my target price. I contacted the county for the tag, title and state lemon law fee. I added everything together and printed out a check that came out to $25,400 back in 2004.

I was able to find the exact vehicle I wanted through the Nissan website and I found a dealer about 30 miles away with the desired vehicle in stock.

Upon arriving at the dealership, I spotted the vehicle on the lot and I checked the VIN to confirm it was the vehicle I wanted. Shortly a salesman walks up and we go to his office. He writes down on a sheet of paper his proposed price. I look at his proposed price, laugh, write down what I'm willing to pay for an "out the door" price and the salesman says he needs to run the price by his manager.

In about 5 minutes, the salesman returns and states, you've go a deal. He proceeds to add to the price a $400 document preparation fee until I reminded him that my price was an "out the door" price that included everything, including tag and title fees. I then hand him a Word document with detailed line items and my pre-printed check as payment. He goes back again to talk to his boss and between us we arrive at an agreement at my original offer price. It didn't hurt that the date was March 30, one day before the end of the month and the end of the fiscal quarter. Altogether I spent about thirty minutes at this dealership

American Made?

@CraigW

You offer several interesting points. It's a very complex story.

I prefer vehicles made by American companies. That being said, I do not think that you can find any car in the U.S. market that is assembled here and contains 100% american parts (Mexico & Canada assembly included).

Buying a "Foreign" car manufactured here may seem OK, but at the end of the day, the profits return to the foreign country's home headquarters - not here.

In the 70's Japanese car makers started using Geometric Dimensioning & Tolerancing (GD&T). They called it the Taguchi(sp?) method. It was invented here by a guy named Hemming, but shrugged of by american automakers that thought that their quality was Good Enough! Hemming went to Japan and the the Japanese embraced it and the quality of their products improved dramatically. It took a few years (after major market share loss) for management to wake up here and adopt GD&T. This was major re-thinking for many in the industry. I think that now, the U.S. meets or exceeds many "foreign" cars quality.

BTW, the aviation industry lives by GD&T.

In today's Global Marketplace, the almighty dollar (and quality) dominate.

Vehicles made for the U.S. Military are another story. Congress passed a law several years ago that requires combat equipment to contain 100% U.S. made components. This is so that in case of war, the parts won't be cut off in overseas shipping (don't know if it specifically applies to vehicles, but it does apply to planes and ships). Don't know how they address electronic components in computers, such as resistors, capacitors, ICs, etc. as most are made overseas now due to labor costs (although, some suppliers still exist here, but not many).

I bought a GMC pickup last year. Due more to brand loyalty, than anything else. It was assembled in Mexico. Somewhere (on the window sticker, I think) it stated the percentage of what parts came from the U.S. and the percentages from elsewhere.

I just don't want folks to buy on impulse. Research what you plan to buy before buying. Always think of long term or high mileage ownership to get your money's worth.

Done rambling.

--
Metricman Nuvi 660, GTM-20 Traffic Receiver Nuvi 3597 GTM-60 Traffic Receiver Williamsburg, VA

To give you an idea.

My Dad's 1st car was Toyota Corolla 1977 and still works up to this time. When I graduated college my first car was a used 89 Honda Accord(no problem and was sold), second was brand new 1998 Toyota Sienna(only problem was sticky rubber seal during winter on sliding doors, sold due to I need a AWD), third was brand new Honda Accord 1999 gift to my wife(now was inherited by my 20 year old son and still going strong) and lastly, an Acura MDX. All performed very well and did not give me any major problem. I just follow the regular maintenance schedule and replaced timing belts every 85,000 miles. I hope this helps.

--
EGMJR

On Line

As several others here have suggested, I bought my last 4 vehicles by shopping on line.

Most auto makers have a website which lets you "build your own vehicle". Once you've constructed your ideal car, the website usually has a "get a quote" option which submits your dream car to dealers in your area who then respond via email.

I've had great luck getting most, if not all the options I want at a competitive price. Don't wait too late in the model year though or you'll have trouble getting all the features you're after.

I print out the best 3 offers and take them to the respective dealers. If they try and boost the price on you, just show them the other offers and threaten to take your business elsewhere. Also, make sure your checkbook is in plain sight. That usually eliminates the haggling.

What They All Said!

For Warranty, there are the three with the longest Power train warranties; Kia, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi all have ten year.

Their basic warranties vary though, and some caveats are that to get the 100,000 mile / 10 year, you must be the original owner, etc.

GMC has a 100,000 or 5 Year power train warranty on some models.

My wife bought a Kia in 2002 Sedona, it seemed to have strange problems and the dealer really stood behind it, and she ended up with a brand new 2005 Sedona to replace after having the first one for three years.

I bought a 2012 Nissan Sentra, and while the car has been great, two different dealers have been less than good experiences. The one where I bought it does the basic work on it, but never expect them to wash the car very well (they boast that every service also gets you a complimentary car wash), and they have NEVER washed the inside windows, floor - nothing. When they seemed to be slipping on even basic service like oil changes, I decided to try a different dealer that's a little closer to my house. Over the months, it's been in there three times for oil changes. Slow service, they used pressure to try to up sell other services like front end alignments or new tires that you don't need, The thing that ended my going to any Nissan dealer is when they bent the Dust Shield that covers the Disc Brakes on the front, so it started grinding and rattling and then couldn't find the source of the noise, and a heat shield above the muffler rattled loose and it took me four hours to get my car back and they couldn't even find the source of either noise (I found both within 10 minutes after getting it home and up on jack stands)

One HUGE thing we learned is that when shopping for a car or even when trying to have a service done - Don't limit your thinking about competition. So, instead of thinking about Dodge vs Chevrolet vs Hyundai vs Honda, etc. - you must also think of one Dodge dealer in competition with another Dodge dealer, Kia vs Kia, etc. So - once you get narrowed down on a make and model - then shop between dealers if there are any in your area.

Good Luck!

Oh - and Semper Fi!

--
And now, back to your regularly scheduled forum - already in progress . . .

Thanks to everyone ...

Thanks for all this input about purchasing a car. (And Yes, I know everyone will have different opinions - and that is what I am looking for).

I am starting to do a search on the Internet for a good price, so much out there. Also I am planning on going to different dealerships of the same make to do some competition pricing.

Still not sure what SUV I am planning to get but will take wife and test drive them. My Wife and I are creating a checklist of things we WANT/Need in a car.

Will keep all of you posted!

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

in a nutshell ...

bobkz wrote:

My Wife and I are creating a checklist of things we WANT/Need in a car.

Will keep all of you posted!

A list of wants and needs vs cost, fuel milage, maintenance, etc.

The first reply suggested you stay away from a particular brand, then country etc.

I have a 2013 Jeep Wrangler Sahara Unlimited (4 door) and other than the gas milage I love it, it does suck up the gas. There was a few minor recall items that were taken care of with no problem. I bought it new so I didn't inhet someone else's problems.

My wife has a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. Gas milage is a little better than the Wrangler and for her, much more comfy. She went through a half dozen cars over the years looking for one with decent lumbar support and big enough to carry her instruments, (She's a school teacher, teaches strings) So far no problems with her Jeep either outside of a couple minor computer updates and a piece of trim that came off.

So while hearing others opinions and experience is a good thing it's going to boil down to what you want/need and can afford.

--
. Nuvi 2689, two Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N, Garmin, built into my Jeep. .

Built in GPS

Just for whatever it's worth. I have GPS built in, in my car, it came with the car. But in my opinion my Garmin stand alone GPS' are superior even though the built in is Garmin based.
I've also heard from other people who have the same opinion of the built in. Also they are quite expensive.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, 3790LMT passed on to my daughter. Using Windows 10

Highlander

After intensive research in 2015 I finally settled last year on a 2016 Toyota Highlander XLE it fills and surpassed our expectations, on long trips is very confortable and the extra seating comes handy for short trips, we chose the bench seat for the second row in order to accommodate an extra passenger. The Entune Navigation coupled with the HD Radio comes very handy, the Garmin now sits in the glove compartment as a backup but so far we are happy with the Entune Nav. It falls within your price range if you haggle a little

--
Garmin 38 - Magellan Gold - Garmin Yellow eTrex - Nuvi 260 - Nuvi 2460LMT - Google Nexus 7 - Toyota Entune NAV

Thank You..

flaco wrote:

After intensive research in 2015 I finally settled last year on a 2016 Toyota Highlander XLE it fills and surpassed our expectations, on long trips is very confortable and the extra seating comes handy for short trips, we chose the bench seat for the second row in order to accommodate an extra passenger. The Entune Navigation coupled with the HD Radio comes very handy, the Garmin now sits in the glove compartment as a backup but so far we are happy with the Entune Nav. It falls within your price range if you haggle a little

That is good information, Thanks!!

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

Not intrested in the GPS

Melaqueman wrote:

Just for whatever it's worth. I have GPS built in, in my car, it came with the car. But in my opinion my Garmin stand alone GPS' are superior even though the built in is Garmin based.
I've also heard from other people who have the same opinion of the built in. Also they are quite expensive.

I would NOT be interested in the GPS Only part of the system, HOWEVER I will want the Bluetooth Hands free and the Backup camera Display that comes with the Device. I plan on using my Portable GPS forever. So much better for the longer trips I believe. Would use the built in one if I was in a pinch for a map of some sort.

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Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

Thank you for the information

soberbyker wrote:
bobkz wrote:

My Wife and I are creating a checklist of things we WANT/Need in a car.

Will keep all of you posted!

A list of wants and needs vs cost, fuel milage, maintenance, etc.

The first reply suggested you stay away from a particular brand, then country etc.

I have a 2013 Jeep Wrangler Sahara Unlimited (4 door) and other than the gas milage I love it, it does suck up the gas. There was a few minor recall items that were taken care of with no problem. I bought it new so I didn't inhet someone else's problems.

My wife has a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. Gas milage is a little better than the Wrangler and for her, much more comfy. She went through a half dozen cars over the years looking for one with decent lumbar support and big enough to carry her instruments, (She's a school teacher, teaches strings) So far no problems with her Jeep either outside of a couple minor computer updates and a piece of trim that came off.

So while hearing others opinions and experience is a good thing it's going to boil down to what you want/need and can afford.

Thanks for this information.. It does help

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Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

I wanted to thank everyone..

I was going to thank each one for there input as you can see I was starting to.. But this will be much easer to do..

Thank you bdhsfz6, emercado, metricman, mcginkleschmidt, dobs108, Melaqueman, chewbacca, Dudlee, and CraigW for your great information and ideas.

I Am Wanting to hear more about this. More information for me is better. I would love to hear from you if you own a Toyoda Highlander or a Honda Pilot and how do you like them. I would also like to hear from you if you own a similar type of car. I am open to other makes and need input on them.

Bob

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

Let me add...

I have a 2014 Dodge Durango, with 98K miles in 3 1/2 years of ownership, and it's been virtually flawless. Under the skin, it's the same as the Jeep Grand Cherokee, but at a bit of a discount price - and in my opinion, a better looking package. Other than routine maintenance - and hitting a deer (!) - it's been to the dealer for one small issue reading the key fob.

My Durango has the V-6 and AWD. If you're not going to be any heavy duty towing, the V-6 gives you more than enough power. You mentioned you were looking for 7-8 seats, in standard configuration, the Durango seats 7 in three row seating.

In 40 years of driving, it's the best vehicle I've ever owned.

--
The Moose Is Loose! nuvi 760

American Made

For what it is worth, Cars.com publishes an American Made Index. Last year 8 cars made the list with the top 5 being Japanese brands. This year they changed how the list was computed with 10 cars on the list and only 4 foreign brands.
https://www.cars.com/articles/the-2016-carscom-american-made...
https://www.cars.com/articles/the-carscom-2017-american-made...

Toyota Infotainment

In the 2016 XLE model the Infotainment came With the Entune GPS and the HD radio included, the radio part I like for receiving weather right to the screen, it also delivers weather radar feed from the closest HD station to your location.

--
Garmin 38 - Magellan Gold - Garmin Yellow eTrex - Nuvi 260 - Nuvi 2460LMT - Google Nexus 7 - Toyota Entune NAV

One question I would really

One question I would really ask myself is if I truly needed AWD or 4-wheel drive. You need to understand in winter driving AWD only helps you get started. It doesn't help you stop or turn and usually l4eads to overconfidence which causes most winter accidents. Also, bear in mind you will pay a 2 to 4 MPG penalty for AWD all year long for one or two days of real use per year.

Couple the gas mileage penalty with a 15 - 20% tire mileage penalty and you begin to see that the cost far outweighs any perceived convenience.

--
"In order to be old and wise, one first must have been young and stupid."

+1

Box Car wrote:

One question I would really ask myself is if I truly needed AWD or 4-wheel drive. You need to understand in winter driving AWD only helps you get started. It doesn't help you stop or turn and usually l4eads to overconfidence which causes most winter accidents. Also, bear in mind you will pay a 2 to 4 MPG penalty for AWD all year long for one or two days of real use per year.

Couple the gas mileage penalty with a 15 - 20% tire mileage penalty and you begin to see that the cost far outweighs any perceived convenience.

I live on a steep private road and, out of necessity, all my vehicles are 4WD. For the reasons mentioned, I personally prefer vehicles which will shift in and out of 4WD. Also, if you get stuck in 2WD, you have a backup by shifting into 4WD. If you get stuck in 4WD or AWD, you're beat.

Thanks..

bdhsfz6 wrote:
Box Car wrote:

One question I would really ask myself is if I truly needed AWD or 4-wheel drive. You need to understand in winter driving AWD only helps you get started. It doesn't help you stop or turn and usually l4eads to overconfidence which causes most winter accidents. Also, bear in mind you will pay a 2 to 4 MPG penalty for AWD all year long for one or two days of real use per year.

Couple the gas mileage penalty with a 15 - 20% tire mileage penalty and you begin to see that the cost far outweighs any perceived convenience.

I live on a steep private road and, out of necessity, all my vehicles are 4WD. For the reasons mentioned, I personally prefer vehicles which will shift in and out of 4WD. Also, if you get stuck in 2WD, you have a backup by shifting into 4WD. If you get stuck in 4WD or AWD, you're beat.

Thank you for that information.. Did not think about it. I will have to looking to a AWD vs 4WD now. good points..

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

New SUV

We got a 2016 Acura MDX Tech. More for my wife than me. I wanted to buy something cheaper in price not really quality, say Honda or Toyota.

It is an AWD vehicle. If you get an AWD be aware that usually within the first 10 to 15,000 miles you will have to change the fluid in the AWD box. It is expensive but not a deal breaker. I asked a few mechanics and they all said yes you have to have it done. The next fluid change will be further down the road than initially and it makes the AWD work properly.

My wife's main drive is a Corvette but she has to park it in the winter due to the snow in our area. We have a "beater" Honda Civic that is actually fairly nice, with 160,000 miles on it for her to drive in the winter. One of the Kids wants to buy it, so we will replace it with either a Honda CRV or Hyundai Tucson, or Toyota. Small SUVs, but still loads of room to pack stuff into.

A number of years ago my wife wanted a BMW X5. It was a great vehicle with a few caveats. One of her legs would always go numb, and she could not find a sitting position that would stop it. Also, after the 4 years of dealer supplied maintenance, it gets very very expensive to maintain it. I don't think we ever got out of the dealership for less than $1000 for any problem. After the "free" 4 years of maintenance our transmission light started to flicker on and off intermittently. It could have become very expensive to keep so we traded it in on a 2005 Acura TL that my daughter still drives. I don't think you can go wrong with the Honda or Toyota family of cars.

I know this will probably cause a lot of comments, but I would buy
American if the reliability of the Honda or Toyota was there.

--
Dudlee

Another Question..

Ok, Still not sure what to buy.. looking at different SUV. but my next questions are:

1. When will the best time to purchase a car?

2. What to say/ask to the Dealership person when negotiating a Price?

3. Anything else to be prepared when walking into a dealership?

Any help on this subject will be very helpful!
(any car dealerships Salespeople on here?)

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

Best time.

I have found the best price on a new vehicle to be a couple of months before the release of a new model year. Usually the manufacturer and dealer discounts are the greatest when they are trying to clear inventory for the new models. Also, there are sometimes extra incentives at end of quarter or end of month.

As far as preparing, the Consumer Reports Car Buyers Guide has some good information. Work with multiple dealers and let them know they are in competition with other dealers. Don't be afraid to walk away and look elsewhere. I have had a dealer call me a couple of days after I walked out to say they are now willing to accept the offer they had refused earlier.

Car salesmen love to play games with you. Don't fall for their typical schemes ... "I will try to convince the sales manager", "This price is good today only", "Another buyer is looking at this car", etc. In general it is best to avoid the add-ons and upsells they try to sell you. These things tend to be pure profit for them. I remember when I was young and car shopping, my dad's advice: "Don't fall in love with a car. It won't love you back."

--
Alan - Android Auto, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra

To know at the dealer

Consumer Reports' car buying service TrueCar.com will give you a report on a specific car in stock at participating TrueCar dealers. The report shows the dealer cost and includes any incentives or specials offered by the manufacturer. This makes it possible to buy the car at several hundred dollars more than dealer cost.

You can take the TrueCar report to a non-participating dealer but the price is not guaranteed. My daughter did that and bought the exact car she wanted for $500- over dealer cost.

It is best to make a clean deal with no extras like Alan says. Avoid a trade-in. They are a way for the dealer to make back hundreds lost in selling the new car at a low price.

Leasing deals are another unknown for the customer. They look good but cost more in the end.

dobs108 smile

In 2011 we bought a Ford

In 2011 we bought a Ford Escape. It had truck frame, V6, AWD, and factory trailer towing package...
We used it to haul trailers back and forth from IL to NC as we built house and then retired, where it became a truck hauling dirt, gravel, Plants, etc... If I had it to do again, I would still purchase it... We've tried to beat it to death, and it keeps on going... Transfer case gasket leaked and was replaced under warranty.... There has been a couple of firmware upgrades done by Ford, and one major SYNC upgrade done by me.... Successfully smile!

Unfortunately, it only seats 5 comfortably, and also.. I believe 2011 was last year for truck frame and V6....

I once rented a Ford Explorer, AWD, for trip from IL to NC and it was bigger....

And in Alaska we rented Ford Expedition for a week, and that went did whatever we asked of it.... (Though Quite Big, and I think a V8, AWD And and/or 4WD).
From our experience in Alaska, I'd suggest Ford Expedition...

--
2689LMT That we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

New Nissan Pathfinder

New Nissan Pathfinder Platinum - lots of neat options!

--
Garmin Nuvi 2595LMT

Some more food for thought

What you haven't stated is your primary use for the car. How will you use it primarily? If it's commuting to work then a 7 - 8 passenger behemoth will guzzle a lot of gas in between the times you need to put more than 2 or 3 in the car. You also haven't stated what's important to you, who I assume will be the primary driver. Other than a price range, your wife's color preference and it having 3 rows, that's not a lot of info and that makes you ripe for any decent salesman.

I would increase my price range to up to $60K for that size car and look into diesel as an option to gas. While diesel may be 20 cents more a gallon, the difference in fuel mileage over 7 or 8 years will pay for the increased cost of the drive package and fuel.And if you are willing to look at that price range, put Range (Land) Rover in your shopping list. Spend some time on the manufacturer web sites and actually configure a vehicle that you would want to drive and suits your primary usage. Go into a dealer with your configuration pretty firmly fixed as to what is required and what are "bells & whistles" for your desired vehicle. If the dealer doesn't have one in stock, then have them check the dealer network for one - don't step away from your requirements and settle for something less. If you are truly serious and wave a couple thousand as a down payment, they will get real serious too and find something very close to your requirements.

Using the manufacturer's configurator will also let you know what the suggested retail is and you should start with an offer bout 20% below that price. You won't get it that low, but close to 15% below suggested would be a good deal. Be prepared to walk, and don't be afraid to get up and demand the keys back to your vehicle. If they balk, tell them you are ready to call the police and report the dealer as having stolen your car - and pull out your cell phone to show you are serious. One of two things will happen, they will either sit back down and do some more negotiating or allow you to walk. If they allow you to walk, do it and go to another dealer even if you have to go to another town.

--
"In order to be old and wise, one first must have been young and stupid."

New Update..

Ok, Thought I will share this with all of you.

After looking at many different types of cars and Test driving them, we found ourselves wanting to stay in a Minivan. The reason for this is that I have a Daughter with Special Needs that needs to get in and out of the car easy. We also drive other Special Olympic players around to practices with equipment and such (volunteer), And last we have a grandmother that we take to doctors monthly (sometime Weekly). I also like the Sliding doors so that the passengers don't hit other cars when they swing it open. The SUV was nice but we are not ready for it yet.

Now what we are deciding on is the Honda 2018 Odyssey. They updated it with a lot of features Both me and my wife like (btw - My wife drives this 80% and I drive on Weekends 20%)

The new 2018 MSRP is cheaper by 2,000 than any of the 2017. I know we could most likely get a better deal in price with the 2017 but we fell in love with the 2018 since it offered a lot more what we both would like.

Only thing is that it is a front wheel drive and not a AWD. Would be nice but we don't REALLY need that anyways.

Ok my question is the following: on Trueccar.com it states the following:

MSRP = 38,300
Factory invoice = 35,091
Market Ave = 36,508

In your opinion what should my starting price be and how far should I go up before walking out?

Remember, this car is a 2018 and dealers want to get rid of there 2017 1st BUT we want this Vehicle now.

Any Advice will be helpful!

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

honda odyssey

Good choice!

Are you talking about the TrueCar "Build My Car" price for all the features you want? If so, there may be no cars in stock in your area that exactly match your requirements.

The service you sign up and pay for will present three actual cars in stock at participating dealers in your area that are close to your requirements. The price on these specific cars is guaranteed.

Whether this works so well in practice is unknown. Here is an adverse review:

http://jalopnik.com/the-truth-about-truecar-savings-15593970...

My daughter got TrueCar guaranteed prices on three cars from three dealers 50 miles away from her location. She took the TrueCar written quotes for these specific cars to her local dealer who is not TrueCar participating.

There was a car in stock that matched her requirements exactly, but different from the other three cars. She offered $300- over factory invoice. The salesman said the owner's policy is never sell a car for less than $500- over invoice. This seemed reasonable, so she made the deal.

However this bears on the price: She told the salesman up front that she would pay cash and she wanted no extras except for an extended warranty from the car manufacturer with a price tag of $1,800-. This must have sweetened the deal.

My best guess is to offer $500- over invoice. If they do not accept I might not walk away without offering $200- to $300- more.

dobs108 smile

The other thing to think about is

if you use truecar and you can find a zip code near where you live where the median income is significantly less than the median income in your zip code, get the truecar certificate using that lower median income zip code...

I was looking for a 2017 car, (note the operative word 'was') and used my zip code. Then I wondered if I could find a zip code close to me where the median income was significantly less.

Using the alternate zip code I got a truecar certificate with an additional 1,900 discounted... kind of interesting...

So you might consider doing that... create a fake email account and use that to figure out what to experiment with...

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

my friend

and I discuss this a lot. Of course, we all want a BMW or Mercedes or Range Rover. The reality is, we are both value oriented.

Without getting into everything, you can't go wrong with Toyota. Is it middle of the road? Yes. Is it boring? Yes. But how about 12 years from now when you look back and you either paid cash or financed for 3 yrs., and find there were no repairs, no warranty claims, nothing ever went wrong. Boring. But your pocketbook will thank you.

Make sure you don't pay any dealer fees, they always add them and try to say they are mandatory. Also, tell them you will register the vehicle yourself, so remove those fees, and don't accept any add ons like vin etching, etc. Google voice doesn't hurt either for the phone calls, because they last about a year or a little more of daily calls. Oddly, for doing research for my buddy in FLA, I got phone calls and emails during Irma, which leads me to believe they are done by a server etc. How am I going to get a call from a Miami dealer on Sat. night? But in a good way, ALL THE CALLING HAS RESUMED AS OF TODAY, implying south FLA dealers are operating, I'm glad for them. My buddy bought a Lexus 3 weeks ago, so it has been an incessant 3 weeks of emails and phone calls--to an alternate account.

I purchased a 2006 Lexus last Oct. with 81k, which helped me avoid buying a new car (potentially 40k). The darn thing has been bulletproof and I've already put 15k on it. On all the DIY OE parts I've bought, it was nice to see they are still made in Japan.

We have 4 old cars: USA made in MI, 2 Japan made, 1 German. The American car just failed a state inspection and it's a 2011 with 55k. Very disappointing.

Mazda CX9 or CX5

Mazda CX9 or CX5

cx5

riveroaks wrote:

Mazda CX9 or CX5

is nice....the achilles heels imho for zoom zoom, are the powerplants, very low on the output and outdated...the Miata borders on pathetic...

Buy..

Buy American and buy a warranty. I bought a fully loaded SUV and the a/c went in the first 7 months. It costs $2300 to replace. the warranty was $800, you do the math.

what kind

allbizz wrote:

Buy American and buy a warranty. I bought a fully loaded SUV and the a/c went in the first 7 months. It costs $2300 to replace. the warranty was $800, you do the math.

Traverse/Acadia/Enclave? Know people who had that happen, either front evap or rear evap. The math is you're out $800 so far?

Thank you to everyone ...

I want to thank everyone with there comments and Suggestions. Every one of them were helpful in getting my new car!

I finally got one last night. We got a VERY good deal on it. Being prepared and not showing your hand right away was the best thing I did. I also threatened to walk away from the table a few times which helped in getting the price lower!

Using my Insurance (USAA), TrueCar and Edmunds, gave me a good starting price that I used to Bring down the Sticker price. Also going to Carbbuyingtips.com gave me great advice.

After getting the Price that I thought was fair, I then mention about the Only rebate that was avail for this purchase in my area (Military for $500.00). At first they were not going to give it to me but after picking up my folder and starting to put my jacket back on, they did.

Then after they agreed to that, I told them that I changed my mine and want the Trade-in on my old auto. They tried to lowballed me and I told them what I wanted and if they gave it to me, I will sign and pay cash RIGHT NOW.. Well after a bit, they took the offer. I ended up paying much less than the sticker price including the Tax and, registration and other fees.

I also went on TrueCar which there you can find what other has paid and how many people paid in Percentages/Price in your zip code area. I also used that information on them which should that I did my homework. I found using Percentage in place of real Dollar amounts work very well for me!

I had fun doing this and will offer to help anyone with research and advice if anyone wants/needs it.

OK I am sure your asking, WHAT DID I BUY?

It is a 2018 Honda Odyssey EX-L. This car has been redesigned and looks really nice. Nicely loaded and drives well with my family.

Again Thanks to everyone with there suggestions and comment!!

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

congrats

friend got the same thing, and he traded in a Sienna that had problems (go figure and he was well aware he lost 13k or so in < 1 yr., he has it to lose). Good thing we only do this maybe 4 or 5 times in our lives LOL when I bought the BMW they filed a SAR on me, nice one. The nervous bank mgr. kept telling me it would only be a few minutes longer--took like 25 min. to get the cashiers check. On the Lexus it was done in < 3 min., same bank, different branch.

Same Car!

johnnatash4 wrote:

friend got the same thing, and he traded in a Sienna that had problems (go figure and he was well aware he lost 13k or so in < 1 yr., he has it to lose). Good thing we only do this maybe 4 or 5 times in our lives LOL when I bought the BMW they filed a SAR on me, nice one. The nervous bank mgr. kept telling me it would only be a few minutes longer--took like 25 min. to get the cashiers check. On the Lexus it was done in < 3 min., same bank, different branch.

Wow, That's what I traded in, but I bet mine was older, I had a 2006 sienna LE with 1 sliding door. had 98,000 miles on it. They wanted to give me 650, but told them I needed 1,500. and they gave it to me!

Could have soled it for MAYBE 2,000 but I think I would have lost money in the end for Having to keep it on my insurance, keeping it running, etc. I think I got a good deal for it!

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

.

bobkz wrote:

I had a 2006 sienna LE with 1 sliding door. had 98,000 miles on it. They wanted to give me 650, but told them I needed 1,500. and they gave it to me!

Could have soled it for MAYBE 2,000 but I think I would have lost money in the end for Having to keep it on my insurance, keeping it running, etc. I think I got a good deal for it!

Not sure what the market price is but $1500 sounds kinda low for a van. I sold my 2000 Accord 4 cyl with almost 200,000 miles for $1300. Congrats on the new Odyssey. I'd be happy to own that vehicle too.

Yea..

chewbacca wrote:
bobkz wrote:

I had a 2006 sienna LE with 1 sliding door. had 98,000 miles on it. They wanted to give me 650, but told them I needed 1,500. and they gave it to me!

Could have soled it for MAYBE 2,000 but I think I would have lost money in the end for Having to keep it on my insurance, keeping it running, etc. I think I got a good deal for it!

Not sure what the market price is but $1500 sounds kinda low for a van. I sold my 2000 Accord 4 cyl with almost 200,000 miles for $1300. Congrats on the new Odyssey. I'd be happy to own that vehicle too.

It was a little low but there were issues with it, bumper was dented in, only had 1 key and the remote was not working at all. also the rug in the back was a bit ripped due to helping someone move. the body had a scratch mark along the full body of the driver side due to a bike or key running along it. Also, I had 3 kids in that thing. Blue book said that I could get anywhere from 2,000 to 5,000.

So yea, it was low but did not have to try to sell it on my own. and GLAD I got this new van!!

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"