cops vs. automation

 

Yesterday we were stuck in a backup due to a wreck caused by ice on the interstate. This pickup with NY tags passes everyone at about 50 mph on the shoulder, only to reach the wreck and to be told to back up by a trooper.

My wife and I thought, busted!

About 5 min. later, he proceeded, while the rest of us waited another 25 min. idling our cars, wasting fuel, and staying in line, following the rules.

It's proof that today aggression still wins, like the early bird who cheats gets the worm. The state troopers were too busy dealing with the accident, to give this person a summons. Which, imho, is an excellent case for automated enforcement. It's never too busy, and it's fair.

Could have been another accident very easily

When I see people coming up on the shoulder "to get by" I pull over and start blocking the lane. Usually someone else gets the idea and we get the entire shoulder blocked. Then the idiot stays there a very long time. No one lets them in.

--
Nuvi 2460LMT.

We were driving in a

We were driving in a rainstorm in Tennessee, and it was SO BAD that trucks were pulling over to side of road... We, too, did same, but positioned ourselves in between two trucks for 'protection'. No sooner did we do so, that a couple trees were toppled by high winds, and came with 50' of us & the trucks...
Suddenly, on the road, that is empty of traffic.. a red pickup pulling a big camper trailer went by at ~65MPH by our guess, fishtailing as he went by...
"There goes an Accident" we both said......
10 min later, worst had passed, and we all proceeded down the road again....
About 3 miles down the road... here is the pickup crosswise in the road, with rear end about 8' up in the air, and the trailer still attached laying diagonally on it's side on the road...
Yep! 'There goes an accident'

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

Drive Defensively

There are too many idiot drivers on the road. Good drivers have to be aware and drive defensively.

yep

In this particular case, I can totally understand that the troopers and firefighters are totally immersed in dealing with the accident. But it truly is not fair that just because someone has big b**** they blow by all the people who are at a dead stop, and get to proceed.

Whether he said it out loud, or not, basically that car was saying, SO LONG, SUCKERS!

Seriously, would anyone be opposed, to having cameras that watch the shoulder for vehicles traveling say in excess of 30 mph? It should only be snapping pics/video of emergency vehicles. Anybody else, likely gets a summons. I really believe that given no enforcement, society does whatever it wants.

Some people are ......

...... Garbage wrapped in skin.

Fortunately, most people are very good people.

Merry Christmas to all of POI factory!!!!!

easy fix

johnnatash4 wrote:

In this particular case, I can totally understand that the troopers and firefighters are totally immersed in dealing with the accident. But it truly is not fair that just because someone has big b**** they blow by all the people who are at a dead stop, and get to proceed.

Whether he said it out loud, or not, basically that car was saying, SO LONG, SUCKERS!

Seriously, would anyone be opposed, to having cameras that watch the shoulder for vehicles traveling say in excess of 30 mph? It should only be snapping pics/video of emergency vehicles. Anybody else, likely gets a summons. I really believe that given no enforcement, society does whatever it wants.

This seems to be an easy fix. Most major roads already have cameras set up to monitor traffic. Whenever there is heavy traffic, there are always those people who feel they do not have to follow the rules and avoid the slowdown by riding the shoulders. This further delays the people driving in the lane when shoulder-riders merge into the driving lane when the shoulder ends or narrows.

I Agree, But...

Although I agree with Johnnatash in principle, there are exceptions. I was stuck for 5 hours in a pileup on I-83 between Baltimore and York a few years ago. CB radios were still in use back then and I heard reports of a white SUV barreling down the right shoulder. The guy stuck behind me must have heard it too because he pulled over blocking the shoulder. I pulled over also as did a few others ahead of us.

The SUV came to a screeching stop and a hysterical young man jumped out yelling that his wife was having a baby! The poor young woman was indeed in labor and in a great deal of pain! Paramedics were waiting for them at the next exit 2 miles ahead! The call went out on the CB and all of us quickly cleared a path! I for one felt like a total jerk as I pulled back in my lane.

99% of the time, its just some idiot trying to get ahead of everyone else but you never know. An automated ticket would have been the least of that young couples problems.

Tennessee

After living in northern Illinois for most of my life. I retired to peaceful low taxes Tennessee. I noticed that no matter how bad the conditions get, the drivers down here never slow down, rain, snow makes no difference.

--
Garmin Nuvi 765T, Garmin Drive 60LM

and in realty..

By taking a deliberate action to obstruct either shoulder of the road with your vehicle, the operator of the vehicle blocking the shoulder lane, in most states is also breaking the law.

Yes, there are jerks on the road. But taking The law into your own hands is inviting road rage to be performed upon themselves.

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

Not Sure About "Fair"

johnnatash4 wrote:

...Which, imho, is an excellent case for automated enforcement. It's never too busy, and it's fair.

I think many members on this forum would disagree with describing traffic cameras as "fair". Perhaps "objective" or "consistent" (based on the assigned criteria) would be more accurate.

Your scenario is somewhat extreme. Almost everyone would agree that the pickup driver was being selfish and unsafe, and should be punished. IMO that is because they could not see themselves doing something so negligent.

But they might not be so supportive of a camera issuing a ticket for going 15 mph over the speed limit on an empty highway, or for making a rolling right turn on a red light when no cross traffic is present. That is because they might (regularly) do these things, and feel that automated enforcement is "unfair".

People may not see these actions as unsafe - even though they would be illegal. And a police officer might let these violations slide, using his or her discretion. But a traffic camera would likely go "click" in each instance and a ticket would be issued. And the recipient of the ticket would likely be upset because they believe they are being punished for a petty or minor infraction.

Of course, it is only a minor infraction if their car doesn't skid out on a patch of ice, or hit a pedestrian crossing the street. But what are the chances of that happening?

Hmmm. ..

.... that's a dangerous argument because you're then allowing everyone to choose which violation they ignore based on their perception of what's minor. Sorry, but the rules is the rules. If you ignore them and get caught you have only yourself to blame.

As for thinking the chances of something happening are unlikely ... take a ride with the emergency services one day, I spent years picking up the pieces of vehicles and people who thought they were only doing something minor.

--
Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

Well said

sussamb wrote:

.... that's a dangerous argument because you're then allowing everyone to choose which violation they ignore based on their perception of what's minor. Sorry, but the rules is the rules. If you ignore them and get caught you have only yourself to blame.

As for thinking the chances of something happening are unlikely ... take a ride with the emergency services one day, I spent years picking up the pieces of vehicles and people who thought they were only doing something minor.

Well said. If you break one law it won't be long till you are breaking another.

--
Mary, Nuvi 2450, Garmin Viago, Honda Navigation, Nuvi 750 (gave to son)

Depends on the Officer too

Get the right one and if that guy didn't have a true emergency, it could get ugly and expensive quick. Going 50 in a zero zone (Most States consider the shoulder a zero speed limit Zone), be a nice start to the 5 or 6 violations he could write!

More drivers = More crazies

More drivers = More crazies on the roadways we all travel. A product of over-population unfortunately.

I remember that

windwalker wrote:

Get the right one and if that guy didn't have a true emergency, it could get ugly and expensive quick. Going 50 in a zero zone (Most States consider the shoulder a zero speed limit Zone), be a nice start to the 5 or 6 violations he could write!

MASS took it seriously, at least when I was a kid. Guttersniping it was called.

The last one I experienced just on Monday, everyone pulled over to let an ambulance by, and the lady behind me who looked like 70+, gunned her tiny Toyota Corolla so now instead of being behind me, I was behind her. If I felt like flexing my muscles, her tiny 1.8 L motor would have met up with a twin cam V8 lol

There is rude behavior all around, it's the holidays! smile

Discretion is possible

DanielT wrote:

a police officer might let these violations slide, using his or her discretion. But a traffic camera would likely go "click" in each instance and a ticket would be issued.

Detection by camera is no bar to discretion. When we had red light cameras here in Albuquerque one link in the chain was human review. If management wanted to allow the reviewer discretion, it is just as available in an automated initial detection scheme as when we rely on the chance viewing of the incident by a policeman in a cruiser who probably has other things to do.

If anything, I think a well-run automated detection system has a lot more opportunity for even-handed enforcement than does chance detection and chance decisions to intervene by scattered police in cruisers.

--
personal GPS user since 1992

Very interesting

Very interesting

I agree

archae86 wrote:
DanielT wrote:

a police officer might let these violations slide, using his or her discretion. But a traffic camera would likely go "click" in each instance and a ticket would be issued.

Detection by camera is no bar to discretion. When we had red light cameras here in Albuquerque one link in the chain was human review. If management wanted to allow the reviewer discretion, it is just as available in an automated initial detection scheme as when we rely on the chance viewing of the incident by a policeman in a cruiser who probably has other things to do.

If anything, I think a well-run automated detection system has a lot more opportunity for even-handed enforcement than does chance detection and chance decisions to intervene by scattered police in cruisers.

We spend a lot of time debating and getting nothing done in the USA. But I understand, the flip side is I think our rights are well-protected.

Yesterday at the airport, tons and tons of cars were illegally parked in departures, with one cop with a class 3 safety vest trying in futility to get people to move. But they were like cockroaches. If this were ORD or LGA or JFK, or heaven forbid LAX, those cockroaches would be dealt with by LE who can not only handle them, but also tow them away.

People routinely play a game of can the law be enforced, if not, let's chance it because there is a huge potential reward to play this game and win.

To illustrate, if a person does not curb their wheels in San Francisco, they get a nice summons, as sure as the sun will shine tomorrow. If they do not do it in northern Manhattan, nothing happens. How stupid is a person to not curb their wheels, when on a 60% grade? It's the law, but at what point does what you learned at 16, or common sense, kick in? Few cars curb their wheels on steep hills in Manhattan.

I think there is some sentiment, just because a car ran a red light, the fine should not be $540. I am all for red light cams, but I agree, $540 is excessive. It should not be $8, or $27, which are so small people would rather pay. I am all for $120 or so, because I feel it's painful enough to learn a lesson, yet not going to make or break anyone.

Arte Johnson

UnNamed wrote:

Very interesting

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