Our experience in Tampa Bay

It would be interesting to see the raw data. In college when I took a statistics class, the first thing they actually teach you is that you can make the data mean whatever you want it to to mean. This is usually done by hand picking data and conveniently ignoring other data.

The most interesting thing in the report that makes me question the validity of the report is they mention 158 communities removed red light cameras, but then the are only comparing rates in 14 of those communities that used to have cameras.

I would like to see how the data holds up in all 158 communities.

Just my 2 cents.

if we applied common sense. Can a 4 y.o. stay onside in soccer and ice hockey?

Can a person successfully understand when to go on yellow, and when to prepare to stop as a light turns yellow?

Having driven in Sarasota and Tampa in May, I don't see any issue with people stopping and not crashing.

can be found at
http://www.iihs.org/frontend/iihs/documents/masterfiledocs.a...
Effects of Turning On and Off Red Light Cameras
on Fatal Crashes in Large U.S. Cities

I'm not sure I understand what I read - the text of the full study report says:

"Increases in rates of fatal red light running crashes (18%) and of all fatal crashes at signalized intersections (8%) in all 19 cities that turned cameras off were not significant."

Always consider the source of these studies. Insurance companies can charge higher rates for people who get camera tickets in some states, so I can't imagine them ever coming out against the cameras, no matter what the data says.

What most people don't seem to know is that YELLOW means STOP. It does not mean go like hell to go through the light !

I remember that from my driving instructor from long ago.

Green - go

Yellow - stop if can be performed safely
if unable to stop safely continue with caution.

Red - stop

In some jurisdictions it is considered a red light if you enter the intersection with the yellow showing. While most jurisdictions have a 'permissive' law allowing you to go through or enter on yellow there are still those, like the District of Columbia that have the 'restrictive' version of the interpretation of what a yellow means.

What compounds the issue for DC is every jurisdiction around them has the permissive laws which means its not enforced in DC, but it is on the books.

very strange that if you want to be literal about things, this thread can't even agree on red, yellow, green, and their meaning, as they pertain to traffic signals and driving. How can we then even function as a society, if three fundamental colors, mean different things, to different drivers?

rhetorical: are you just trying to disagree for fun? This is the internet, and we are all somewhat anonymous. It would be amazing if we were face to face, and it the same topic yielded the same disagreement.

Just to whom is your comment addressed? If you are speaking of my statement regarding the two variations of interpreting what a yellow signal means, Then I have to ask where are you drawing your conclusion from? I spent too many years working with those laws and their interpretation in dealing with the Department of Transportation, law firms and state DOTs. Many of the people I worked with at this position had initials after their names, initials like PhD, PE, P.T.O.E., and EE.

The laws regarding how traffic signal lights are to be interpreted are individually passed by each state and in many instances both city and county. The lawmakers can't agree on how signals are to be interpreted while the USDOT only publishes guidelines as a means to bring some similarity between different jurisdictions.

Me, I don't have any of those fancy initials after my name, I just spent the time being the Project Manager for the generation of many of the standards used for traffic devices and overseeing the communications used for the Connected Vehicle devices.

Everyone knows the colors and their respective meaning..

Green - Go Fast

Yellow - Go Faster

Red - At least one more car!

It's simple..

Just because the study is funded or performed by an agency with some stake in the outcome does not automatically mean that the results are inaccurate. Bias is well understood in statistical enquiries and steps are normally taken to control for it. At the very least, the authors of a study will make their association known so that it can be included when considering their findings.

But bias applies to interpretation as well. For example, in saying that you "can't imagine" insurance companies coming out against cameras, you are presenting your bias.

"But bias applies to interpretation as well. For example, in saying that you "can't imagine" insurance companies coming out against cameras, you are presenting your bias"

Of late Crooks in Government and businesses associated with government are becoming the norm!!!

Obviously it is theoretically impossible to never enter an intersection with yellow showing. Just think about when the the light changes to yellow when you are less than a foot from the limit line. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that it would be a law in DC.

I'm not claiming to be a study. Just stating my opinion here.

and we could get down to a molecular level and travel as such, how close can we get to an intersection on each color? Again, 4 y.o. kids can stay on side playing ice hockey and soccer, it has to be that we want to overcomplicate for the sake of the internet. Why not add more colors to the traffic signal, and the problem would be solved? There could be 8 or 9 to start, and by 2020 go up to 17.

In fact, if you think about it, an insurance company loves cameras that ticket ESPECIALLY safe drivers: Higher rate is charged to someone that probably will not cause any claims.

http://www.tbo.com/news/opinion/tampa-should-pull-the-plug-o...

I live in the Tampa Bay area. Thanks for posting this thread.

"But could someone please explain to me why the number of cities using the scofflaw-catching devices keeps decreasing?"

This was from the article. Let's use common sense and go back to high school economics.

Marginal benefit > marginal cost

When the cost of administration exceeds the safety benefits, it becomes difficult to continue.

It's truly laughable, imho, to continue to belabour the notion as to whether or not the technology works. Lenses and imaging sensors cannot on their own, manufacture video and still images showing vehicles running lights, when they did not.

Then of course there's the argument that a driver cannot determine whether or not to proceed, or stop, when a light changes from green to yellow.

One would hope we don't teach our kids this way.