The NSA is tracking us

 

As most everyone knows from reading the news about the Snowden/NSA leaks, the NSA is spying on everyone, all the time, and storing the data forever in huge data warehouses.

I know many people may say something like "I'm not doing anything illegal, so what do I care", but it just bothers me as being wrong. It is the kind of thing dictators and communist countries have done - with often deadly consequences for those whose views do not agree with the government.

From what I recall from this year's news articles:
1. Home Phone: All call information is recorded, but not the actual phone call - as long as it is not VOIP.
2. USPS mail: All letters are scanned to record from FROM and TO addresses
3. Cell phones and tablets with SIM cards: All location information is recorded.
4. Cell phone calls - All call information is recorded, but not the actual phone call - as long as it is not VOIP.
5. VOIP phone calls - aka Vonage, Comcast, and the future Verizon VOIP - although it is voice, in reality is just data over the internet so it is likely recorded.
6. Cell phone texting - all texts are recorded and saved.
7. Anything done over the internet is recorded - all purchases, all internet searches, all forum posts (like this one), just about everything.

Congress couldn't muster enough votes to stop this kind of spy on everyone and store it forever mentality.

Turning off the phone or tablet may not make any difference in the tracking capabilities. Either:
1. The phone is not really off - the screen and sounds are just off, or
2. The phone is off, but the firmware inside the chips keeps tracking and transmitting the location information.

I have lived most of my life without internet at home, and without cell phones.

I am embarking on an experiment:
1. I have several ten year old dumb/basic phones which still work. I am going to switch to using a basic phone - and keep it off at all times. It is just for calling 911 or AAA if my car will not start or needs towing. I thought about turning it on when at home, but everyone who might call me on the cell also knows my home number - so I'm not sure there is any advantage.
2. I will still use the internet at home on computer/laptop/tablet. I might even use the tablet internet at work (no work internet for me). The cell/sim tracking will show me at home and at work, but not tracking everywhere I go. I can't see giving up the internet - in particular shopping at Amazon.com and other internet commerce sights.

So, this is what I am going to do.

I am curious what other people think about this subject?

I meant to write "Verizon

I meant to write "Verizon voice over LTE" which is VOIP - voice that is simply internet data.

no, they are quite different

HowardZ wrote:

I meant to write "Verizon voice over LTE" which is VOIP - voice that is simply internet data.

VOIP is literally Voice over Internet Protocol which is a higher level than LTE or Long-Term Evolution. Internet Protocol is just as it states, the protocol used to exchange information using the Internet. LTE is a wireless protocol which is lower on the standard 7 layer protocol stack and provides the basis for other layers to operate. IP would be carried on LTE. There are similarities as both are designed to be digital and LTE currently has not matured to the level where you can have a true VoLTE. What is currently offered is an application running on LTE that handles voice packets between two compatible devices, but each carrier's implementation is different. A Verizon Wireless customer cannot establish a voice over LTE connection to anyone other than a Verizon customer. To go from one carrier (or medium such as wireless) to another you have to go through a media converter.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

NSA Is Tracking Us...

The title to the lead off post is... "NSA Is Tracking Us".

In my case, seeing my wife is always telling me "where to go" wink ......, at least I'll have someone other than her letting me know where I've been once I get there! laugh out loud

I'm not really lost.... just temporarily misplaced!

Nuvi1300WTGPS

--
I'm not really lost.... just temporarily misplaced!

wife is better than NSA

Nuvi1300WTGPS wrote:

The title to the lead off post is... "NSA Is Tracking Us".

In my case, seeing my wife is always telling me "where to go" wink ......, at least I'll have someone other than her letting me know where I've been once I get there! laugh out loud

I'm not really lost.... just temporarily misplaced!

Nuvi1300WTGPS

My wife could teach them a trick or two! She always seems to know just where I am!

--
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things!

Big Brother is Alive and Well

I live in the Philadelphia, PA area. There are cameras of all types everywhere. You can turn your phones and computers off but you'll still be tracked, well sort of. With facial recognition software if someone wanted to find you they probably could in the technology age we've been in for years.

I've seen quite a few news stories how a store gets robbed and it's not only the store surveillance systems that "catches" the perps, like I said, cameras are everywhere.

Add to that debit cards, credit cards, bonus cards (shopping), the days of true anonymity are over, at least in the built up sections of the world.

I really don't let it bother me, it is what it is as the saying goes, not going to let it keep me from doing what I do.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Follow the money!

That's what the serious money does ... and so should you.
Everything else is pretense & diversion of attention.
_______________________________________________________
You are registered to vote in November & plan to do so, right? wink

You're Too Late

That horse has left the barn decades ago.

Even a dumb phone that is off can be tracked, unless the battery is out of it. In my mind, we are far beyond being able to stop this flow of information to the Gov. So, you might as well just use your smartphone, and get the benefits from it because it doesn't matter.

The current level of surveillance in the world is unprecedented, and even world leaders are getting caught out in the dragnet.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Mostly Corporate

Juggernaut wrote:

... In my mind, we are far beyond being able to stop this flow of information to the Gov....

There seems to be this automatic reaction that it is (only) the "Government" that is tracking us.

It makes better posts because the "Government" is thought to be the source of all that is wrong.

But - most of the information collected about us is in the hands of "Corporate America".

Perhaps it has happened and kept secret (what else would one expect from the "Government"?), but I have never heard of "DATA" from the "Government" being hacked - can you say "credit card and social security numbers.

not standalone GPS

As this is a GPS-related web site, perhaps it is worth adding a specifically GPS comment to this thread. A pure GPS receiver is receive-only, so not transmitting your location to anywhere else. (disregarding possible nearfield interception of operation noise).

The concerns voiced in this thread might lead some users to prefer to get their position from a standalone GPS unit rather than a smart phone--the communication platform of which inherently transmits, and the computing platform for which is probably an easier and certainly a more fruitful target for malware to transmit position when that is not requested.

--
personal GPS user since 1992

.

Gov has directed the corporations to have a complete access to information, including tapping in to fiber optic cables.

As for the Gov not being hacked, you need to catch up on the news more often. They've been hacked a lot over the last while.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

can you provide

Juggernaut wrote:

Gov has directed the corporations to have a complete access to information, including tapping in to fiber optic cables.

As for the Gov not being hacked, you need to catch up on the news more often. They've been hacked a lot over the last while.

Can you provide a source for that allegation? If anything, at least in the US, some elements of the government are attempting to reign in the amount of data collected and shared by corporations.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

I agree

I agree

is this a ...

conspiracy thread? smile

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

.

Box Car wrote:

Can you provide a source for that allegation? If anything, at least in the US, some elements of the government are attempting to reign in the amount of data collected and shared by corporations.

Just Google Snowdon, and Assange, and you'll see what info those leaks provided. The same with the Gov being hacked.

As for Gov reigning it in, it comes after public outrage at the level of spying on the public from the leaks. All of them are doing damage control now. MS, Google, etc.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

People don't value their privacy

The problem is even worse than you state. I know of an on-line forum that runs monthly posts titled something similar to "Keep the NSA Alive - Your Last Trip?" where people post information about where they have been to help make the NSA's job a lot easier.

WOW!

HowardZ wrote:

As most everyone knows from reading the news about the Snowden/NSA leaks, the NSA is spying on everyone, all the time, and storing the data forever in huge data warehouses.

I know many people may say something like "I'm not doing anything illegal, so what do I care", but it just bothers me as being wrong. It is the kind of thing dictators and communist countries have done - with often deadly consequences for those whose views do not agree with the government.

From what I recall from this year's news articles:
1. Home Phone: All call information is recorded, but not the actual phone call - as long as it is not VOIP.
2. USPS mail: All letters are scanned to record from FROM and TO addresses
3. Cell phones and tablets with SIM cards: All location information is recorded.
4. Cell phone calls - All call information is recorded, but not the actual phone call - as long as it is not VOIP.
5. VOIP phone calls - aka Vonage, Comcast, and the future Verizon VOIP - although it is voice, in reality is just data over the internet so it is likely recorded.
6. Cell phone texting - all texts are recorded and saved.
7. Anything done over the internet is recorded - all purchases, all internet searches, all forum posts (like this one), just about everything.

Congress couldn't muster enough votes to stop this kind of spy on everyone and store it forever mentality.

Turning off the phone or tablet may not make any difference in the tracking capabilities. Either:
1. The phone is not really off - the screen and sounds are just off, or
2. The phone is off, but the firmware inside the chips keeps tracking and transmitting the location information.

I have lived most of my life without internet at home, and without cell phones.

I am embarking on an experiment:
1. I have several ten year old dumb/basic phones which still work. I am going to switch to using a basic phone - and keep it off at all times. It is just for calling 911 or AAA if my car will not start or needs towing. I thought about turning it on when at home, but everyone who might call me on the cell also knows my home number - so I'm not sure there is any advantage.
2. I will still use the internet at home on computer/laptop/tablet. I might even use the tablet internet at work (no work internet for me). The cell/sim tracking will show me at home and at work, but not tracking everywhere I go. I can't see giving up the internet - in particular shopping at Amazon.com and other internet commerce sights.

So, this is what I am going to do.

I am curious what other people think about this subject?

Interesting!

--
Garmin c340, Nuvi 350, Nuvi 765T, Nuvi 2360LMT

Windmill

Frovingslosh wrote:

The problem is even worse than you state. I know of an on-line forum that runs monthly posts titled something similar to "Keep the NSA Alive - Your Last Trip?" where people post information about where they have been to help make the NSA's job a lot easier.

Too funny!

Doomed

I am already sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo doomed it doesn't matter at this point.

--
GPSMAP 76CSx - nüvi 760 - nüvi 200 - GPSMAP 78S

Exactly

thrak wrote:

I am already sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo doomed it doesn't matter at this point.

I'm on more lists than I can count. grin

I'm not that interesting

NSA would get quite bored monitoring me. If I get concerned, I'll look up how to make a tin foil hat on the web.

--
Zumo 550 & Zumo 665 My alarm clock is sunshine on chrome.

Is a good reminder

This thread is a good reminder of an advantage of a standalone GPS rather than a cell phone for navigation.

All of this discussion.....

verifies the concept of Big Brother.

--
RKF (Bethesda, MD) Garmin Nuvi 660, 360 & Street Pilot

here ya go ...

dave817 wrote:

NSA would get quite bored monitoring me. If I get concerned, I'll look up how to make a tin foil hat on the web.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Aluminum-Foil-Hat/

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

They'd be bored with pretty

They'd be bored with pretty much anyone.

Doesn't matter what

Walk down the street, shop in almost any store, use your computer, phone or whatever you do you are being scrutinized by someone!!!!

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, SmartDrive 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

It goes further than that

goboymd wrote:

They'd be bored with pretty much anyone.

It also tracks associations to people. You know Mary, Tom, Paul, and others. Who do they know? Did you know them as well?

Think the "Six degrees of separation" concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Separation?

Juggernaut wrote:
goboymd wrote:

They'd be bored with pretty much anyone.

It also tracks associations to people. You know Mary, Tom, Paul, and others. Who do they know? Did you know them as well?

Think the "Six degrees of separation" concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation

I thought it was 'Six degrees of Kevin Bacon'. laugh out loud

True, but......

archae86 wrote:

As this is a GPS-related web site, perhaps it is worth adding a specifically GPS comment to this thread. A pure GPS receiver is receive-only, so not transmitting your location to anywhere else. (disregarding possible nearfield interception of operation noise)..

Unless you have "checked the box" that gives permission for Garmin to receive your tracks. Then they too, know where you have been whenever you connect the GPS to get new maps, firmware, etc.

--
I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

I am now back to a basic(not

I am now back to a basic(not smart) ten year old Verizon flip phone - using Page Plus.

Page Plus sells plans on Verizon's 3G network. So, if one has a smart phone with page plus, then the data speed will be slow.

I purchased $80 worth of minutes which expire in one year. Talking minutes are 4 cents per minute, and texts are 5 cents per text. So, I have approximately 2000 minutes/texts. Since I don't really talk/text very much this should last me one year.

I do miss not being able to read the news on the internet, read all the junk mail, and check out the babes on okcupid.com But, I can do that at home where I have a PC and internet.

This makes it even more important to keep my Garmin 750 up to date with poi-factory.com's speed camera database, since I can not use trapster nor waze.

but

They track us using credit cards too

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

I think

I'll buy more ammo

--
"You can't get there from here"

you realize of course

TMK wrote:

I'll buy more ammo

That stating what you are planning to purchase in your message is one of the keywords that cause your messages to be scanned in depth don't you?

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

Thanks ...

... Now I don't have to risk the NSA discovering that I searched for 'tin-foil hat' on teh Googles ...

soberbyker wrote:
dave817 wrote:

NSA would get quite bored monitoring me. If I get concerned, I'll look up how to make a tin foil hat on the web.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Aluminum-Foil-Hat/

--

it's the dog's fault

--
Garmin nuvi 2455 - nuvi 350, 260 (spares) - my other toys: Mac Mini, MacBook Pro, MacOS: Mojave 10.14 and introducing The Beast, a 2013 Dodge Charger Pursuit and his Garmin DriveSmart 5. The dog's name is Ginger

.

No need to waste good tinfoil, just use the Tor Browser. wink

https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en

Edit - Oh yea, for encrypted text messages, MMS, and video, try Wickr. https://www.wickr.com/

Android, and iOS apps are available.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

The key question is, obviously

Box Car wrote:
TMK wrote:

I'll buy more ammo

That stating what you are planning to purchase in your message is one of the keywords that cause your messages to be scanned in depth don't you?

do I care? If stating that I will engage in a perfectly legal activity causes this government to scrutinize me, or worse, then this is not the country in which I grew up nor to which I have taken the oath to uphold and defend the Constitution on 6 separate occasions...I was fully aware when I typed the response and feel confident that if that simple statement causes someone to come to my door the response they meet will be less than cordial. I do not live in fear of the government; I am a citizen, not a subject.

--
"You can't get there from here"

Glad most of my stuff is

Glad most of my stuff is done through VOIP.

off only

Cell phones are only truly off when the battery is removed.

--
Garmin Drive Smart 61 NA LMT-S

Tracking us

I don't see it getting any better, the horse as they say left the barn years ago.

Don't forget license plate scanners that are becoming prolific with many different agencies and departments.
Seems you can't even go for a Sunday drive without being tracked!

--
Dudlee

phone being tracked

I don't particularly mind. I might end up being the one off the road under a snowdrift some day.
I can always pull the battery if I am up to something

You know

You Know the song that go Private eyes they are watching you.....

Well that you have it..

auto tracking

I guess their tracking cars now I read were cameras set up to copy license plates to track where it goes.
so I guess they read your email, listen to your phone call, track how much you spend, where you go. privacy in this country is a myth, and as for congress doing something about it good luck they are owned by lobbyists who get this information from the government

We've been monitored for years

A little short story...

When my uncle (born 1939) was a boy, he attended a state fair. Unbeknownst to my grandparents, he signed up at a table for a communist newsletter thinking it would be a neat thing to do. A few months later, he received a newsletter in the mail and my grandmother immediately cancelled it telling them he as a minor and didn't have her permission to sign up. Many years later, he was in the USAF and going for his top secret clearance and they brought up this incident.

So, yes, the government's been keeping tabs on things for a long while.

--
Nuvi 2597 / Nuvi 2595 / Nuvi 680 / Nuvi 650 "Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment."

They're linked anyway

jonny5 wrote:

This thread is a good reminder of an advantage of a standalone GPS rather than a cell phone for navigation.

Yes, but now Garmin and others are having to link them to your smartphone to make them "relevant" so the masses will still buy the product instead of using their phones. So, for many people, their phone will still be on, so it doesn't matter if they're navigating using a standalone GPS or phone.

--
Nuvi 2597 / Nuvi 2595 / Nuvi 680 / Nuvi 650 "Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment."

I Agree

I Agree too.

--
romanviking

Sources

geo334 wrote:

I guess their tracking cars now I read were cameras set up to copy license plates to track where it goes.
so I guess they read your email, listen to your phone call, track how much you spend, where you go. privacy in this country is a myth, and as for congress doing something about it good luck they are owned by lobbyists who get this information from the government

@geo334,
can you please cite some sources to support your claim that "lobbyists" are getting information from the "government"?

Hmm

People's opinions on this range from "I don't care" to obsessively paranoid.

Have you ever been somewhere and just "knew" someone was watching you and then you turn around and sure enough, somebody was?

Now consider a subset of the 350 million people in this country who might be already a bit unstable mentally. Add to this the paranoia, fear, irritation (or whatever) that comes with constant surviellance by the government as well as with cameras recording just about everything these days.

Is it a stretch to think there is a link with the rise in horrible shootings that are in the news all the time? People lashing out, but they don't know how or who to aim their reactions at???