E-Z Passes again

 

Saw this; quite related to a previous discussion on freeway passes being used to film motorists.

E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/09/12/e-zpasses...

In this story, according to the "E-ZPass Inter-agency Group — the umbrella association that oversees the use of the pay-toll-paying tags in 15 different states — it said New York is the only state that is employing this inventive re-use of the tags."

A nice "reminder once again that if you accept some kind of tracking device, it may be used in ways you wouldn’t expect."

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all over the place

sensors are all over the place on the highways in at least NY and NJ. You can see them mainly on the left side of the road and on signs across the road. I assume this is how they collect data on traffic delays for the GPS units with traffic. Never mind Big brother is watching.

surprise

What surprises me isn't that some agency uses the RFID data for something besides tolls, that seems pretty much inevitable. The surprise is the ingenuity of the guy that discovered they were doing it.

as much as you think

I would rather say, that as far as we know no agency is using RFID data. In light of recent development about scale of invigilation conducted by NSA it may be matter of time that we learn about collecting this data as well.

all over

I was actually looking at my windshield one day, and said wth is that thing taped to my rearview? It was this:

http://cladlab.com/wp-content/gallery/electronics-rfid/alien...

who knows who put it there or how long it was there?

I am 100% for red light and speed cams. I am against reading EZPass tags for non-tolling activities, or On*Star and the like selling information especially on those vehicles that are not subscribed but have the hardware in the vehicle from the factory.

Privacy? What Privacy!

With E-Z Pass, smart phones, OnStar, RFID enabled GPS receivers, surveillance & traffic cameras and the host of other electronic devices out there, no one should be surprised that our privacy is being invaded. If they haven't already, how long will it be before the government (NSA) gets their hands on the data being collected by these companies?

While the potential is there for this "mined" data to be helpful to the average person, for the most part, it appears it's being used against us.

get with the times

bdhsfz6 wrote:

With E-Z Pass, smart phones, OnStar, RFID enabled GPS receivers, surveillance & traffic cameras and the host of other electronic devices out there, no one should be surprised that our privacy is being invaded. If they haven't already, how long will it be before the government (NSA) gets their hands on the data being collected by these companies?

While the potential is there for this "mined" data to be helpful to the average person, for the most part, it appears it's being used against us.

What I can't get over is that there are people who actually believe they can email, make phone calls, talk to others in public, without this information being readily available to everyone and anyone. Live your life as if you're being watched by a webcam with a live feed to the web.

No lie, my wife's ex-boss did porn when she was a teenager. Here you have this SVP arguing with a director, when the director called her by her porn name. You did something in the past, you better believe somebody knows about it.

unplug everything ....

johnnatash4 wrote:

What I can't get over is that there are people who actually believe they can email, make phone calls, talk to others in public, without this information being readily available to everyone and anyone. Live your life as if you're being watched by a webcam with a live feed to the web.

No lie, my wife's ex-boss did porn when she was a teenager. Here you have this SVP arguing with a director, when the director called her by her porn name. You did something in the past, you better believe somebody knows about it.

Really.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Interesting.

I'm getting old and am already very forgetful. It would be nice if I could tap into those data bases to see what I've been doing these past years. I may have been leading a much more exciting life than I think! LOL

--
Tuckahoe Mike - Nuvi 3490LMT, Nuvi 260W, iPhone X, Mazda MX-5 Nav

It's allright ...

Big brother just wants to make sure that we're OK ...

interesting

interesting

the reason

I'm not for tracking people with EZPass is when the tags first came out, it was said that would not happen. imho it can't just change because nobody says it can't.

Ethics are more questionable today, than any other time in our lives. We all know about the shrinking cereal boxes, mayonnaise jars, etc. Today, I just saw my rewards card's redemption schedule change. 10,000 pts. = $100 right? Look at the shenanigans. Today it went to 11,800 pts. = $100. Because nobody says it can't. A new twist on the 5X for gas, 3X for groceries, and 1X for anything else. 5X is not 5X, it's 5X = 4.1X.

Back to tracking, it's funny how people use free wifi in public places. Like there isn't a guy sitting there grinning as his plug-in to firefox is collecting usernames and passwords.

Bloomberg must be behind it

He's behind it all, at least in NYC wink

--
Garmin nuvi 2595LMT; Android 5.0 (Samsung GS3)

Bloomberg must be behind it

feniks wrote:

He's behind it all, at least in NYC wink

Hopefully, Mayor Bloomberg won’t pass this info to Governor Martin O’Malley.

Off to Costco

For another industrial size roll of tinfoil. grin

I-Pass in IL

-Nomad- wrote:

... The surprise is the ingenuity of the guy that discovered they were doing it.

I had the original I-PASS in Illinois. Got it in 1998 or so. That model would beep 3 times whenever it registered a toll and give a long beep if it failed to 'pay' a toll; ie my toll account had not yet been replenished. You could also push a button on it and a little LCD would show the balance on your account. I liked the audible feedback.

The newer models have no such feedback. We have no idea if a toll was successful or not when going through the main toll zones. Where there are toll booths in the entrance and exits, they still have red/green lights so you can see if your toll payment registered.

They eventually stopped supporting those old units and replaced them with smaller but silent units. Now there is an interesting reason for wishing I had the old original model back. It might have beeped whenever it was read by an outside source, too.

exterior tags are NYC's answer

ericruby wrote:

For another industrial size roll of tinfoil. grin

Why not just use the bag that they send it in, rather than spend your own money? If you really want to do that, I mean if so, now you have to consciously attach the thing to your glass everytime you go through a toll, pretty inconvenient.

One way for EZPass to get around it is to mandate exterior tags for everyone (costs more).

No surprise, but unfortunate

Well, this is no surprise, but it is unfortunate that this is being done. In many areas, if not most, paying without the RFID tags results in higher fees. Use the tracking device or pay higher tolls. Or use a bag, foil, etc between uses. It's too bad that there appears to be no good choice available.

Tin Hat Bag

Was just sorting through the glove box a few days ago and found the E-ZPass bag. Maybe it is time to go into stealth mode.

Hide it

I always keep my EZPass in its original package, in the glove box. Take it out only when needed. Somewhere I have a small film protector bag, used to protect 35mm film when going through airport xray machines (remember when?). Think I'll use that to keep my EZPass in.

--
Tuckahoe Mike - Nuvi 3490LMT, Nuvi 260W, iPhone X, Mazda MX-5 Nav

A second chance just compile

A second chance just compile all the files kept on you and then hit replay. Put in a continuous loop and live forever.......

--
nuvi 250 --> 1250T --> 265T Lost my 1250T

A good reminder

This is just the beginning and can't say I am surprised.

Long Island

On several roads here on Long Island they use the transponders to measure traffic flow and display estimated times to reach certain exits based on that information. I keep my EZ-Pass in a foil bag in my glove compartment so it is not being read.

--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

Hat, not bag

johnnatash4 wrote:
ericruby wrote:

For another industrial size roll of tinfoil. grin

Why not just use the bag that they send it in, rather than spend your own money? If you really want to do that, I mean if so, now you have to consciously attach the thing to your glass everytime you go through a toll, pretty inconvenient.

One way for EZPass to get around it is to mandate exterior tags for everyone (costs more).

The tin foil was to make a hat to block the space rays, but now that you mention it, a transponder bag isn't a bad idea. idea

Interim step--

Tracking EZPass, license plate readers, are just an interim step.

Why use things like EZPass, or license plate readers? Every vehicle on the road has a unique VIN.

My engineering prediction (wild guess) is that within a few years we'll have mandated transponders on all new vehicles that respond with the vehicle VIN. Then it's up to the myriad of agencies to track and record these.

While those wishing for some amount of privacy will be depressed by such thoughts, these eventualities are good news for some groups, such as those who sell data storage systems -- and it's going to take a massive amount of storage to suck up and hold all that data...

And in a certain perverse sense, that's a glimmer of hope for the rest of us, that agencies will be awash in such huge amounts of data that most of us will be once again lost in the noise -- unless someone is focused on us, but then that's always been the case.

--
Nuvi 2460, 680, DATUM Tymserve 2100, Trimble Thunderbolt, Ham radio, Macintosh, Linux, Windows

Just Say No

k6rtm wrote:

Tracking EZPass, license plate readers, are just an interim step.

Why use things like EZPass, or license plate readers? Every vehicle on the road has a unique VIN.

My engineering prediction (wild guess) is that within a few years we'll have mandated transponders on all new vehicles that respond with the vehicle VIN. Then it's up to the myriad of agencies to track and record these.

While those wishing for some amount of privacy will be depressed by such thoughts, these eventualities are good news for some groups, such as those who sell data storage systems -- and it's going to take a massive amount of storage to suck up and hold all that data...

And in a certain perverse sense, that's a glimmer of hope for the rest of us, that agencies will be awash in such huge amounts of data that most of us will be once again lost in the noise -- unless someone is focused on us, but then that's always been the case.

Just don't buy a new car.

--
Frank Nuvi 3597LMT 37.322760, -79.511267

got an email

We have 4 tags....one was switched out months ago to the new wedge kind. Now I got an email that the other 3 need to be swapped. Is it really cheaper somehow, or is it because they have tracking in the new ones, I mean seriously. I have one tag from 2001 and it's working fine. Why wouldn't they simply let it ride until the user reported problems? That seems cheaper than proactively forcing a switch.

where

johnnatash4 wrote:

We have 4 tags....one was switched out months ago to the new wedge kind. Now I got an email that the other 3 need to be swapped. Is it really cheaper somehow, or is it because they have tracking in the new ones, I mean seriously. I have one tag from 2001 and it's working fine. Why wouldn't they simply let it ride until the user reported problems? That seems cheaper than proactively forcing a switch.

I haven't heard of this, and info you can point to? What state issued your "wedge" EZPass?

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Wedge?

soberbyker wrote:

I haven't heard of this, and info you can point to? What state issued your "wedge" EZPass?

You may already have it (wedge) as johnnatash4 describes it, that's the transponder I have. It's a smaller replacement for larger ones issued in the past.

Compare them here:
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/12/05/new-generation-o...

--
Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

how

k6rtm wrote:

Tracking EZPass, license plate readers, are just an interim step.

Why use things like EZPass, or license plate readers? Every vehicle on the road has a unique VIN.

My engineering prediction (wild guess) is that within a few years we'll have mandated transponders on all new vehicles that respond with the vehicle VIN. Then it's up to the myriad of agencies to track and record these.

While those wishing for some amount of privacy will be depressed by such thoughts, these eventualities are good news for some groups, such as those who sell data storage systems -- and it's going to take a massive amount of storage to suck up and hold all that data...

And in a certain perverse sense, that's a glimmer of hope for the rest of us, that agencies will be awash in such huge amounts of data that most of us will be once again lost in the noise -- unless someone is focused on us, but then that's always been the case.

do you know we aren't at that point already? do you know what data the black box in your car is collecting, do you know were it is going.

E-Z Passes Again

If you don't do anything wrong, then you have no problem.

--
Alan-Garmin c340

Slippery Slope

That, alanrobin1 is the top of the Slippery Slope. As long as you think it won't affect you, it's ok.

Not true, my friend, not true.

--
Frank Nuvi 3597LMT 37.322760, -79.511267

no, still have the old one

muell9k wrote:
soberbyker wrote:

I haven't heard of this, and info you can point to? What state issued your "wedge" EZPass?

You may already have it (wedge) as johnnatash4 describes it, that's the transponder I have. It's a smaller replacement for larger ones issued in the past.

Compare them here:
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/12/05/new-generation-o...

Wow, that article is nearly a year old, first I heard of them, thanks.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Sounds like (he?) might have been a fan...

johnnatash4 wrote:

What I can't get over is that there are people who actually believe they can email, make phone calls, talk to others in public, without this information being readily available to everyone and anyone. Live your life as if you're being watched by a webcam with a live feed to the web.

No lie, my wife's ex-boss did porn when she was a teenager. Here you have this SVP arguing with a director, when the director called her by her porn name. You did something in the past, you better believe somebody knows about it.

So was the director a fan? smile

There are ways to achieve reasonable measures of privacy but they may be inconvenient, especially for the average non-technical user.

Examples include PGP, GnuPG, ZRTP/ZPhone, Tor, TrueCrypt, etc. The main thing you'd need to be concerned about is the possibility of some sort of "back door" being installed or even built-in to your computer, smartphone, ATA, etc. Here's another good argument for open-source apps and operating systems, if there's something in there that shouldn't be, it won't be a secret for long.

But hey, like someone else here said, if you're not doing anything wrong then there's nothing to worry about. Just like under King Henry VIII's rule, if you disagreed with his political views and he found out about it, you had nothing to worry about. Being hung in chains or lowered head first into a vat of boiling water (or acid) is refreshing and cleanses the pores.

JGW

alanrobin1 wrote:

If you don't do anything wrong, then you have no problem.

John Galt weeps.

Thanks.....

Interesting info.

--
RKF (Bethesda, MD) Garmin Nuvi 660, 360 & Street Pilot

I remember reading about

I remember reading about this system in a local newspaper several years ago. It is how they report traffic delays and time-to-travel distance signs on some highways. It is a very accurate system and helps me navigate around traffic.

EZ Pass Story

alanrobin1 wrote:

If you don't do anything wrong, then you have no problem.

If you do something wrong, indeed you may have a problem.

Years ago I remember a coworker of mine (salesman) telling us New York State suspended his EZ Pass.
Their reason for doing so was that determined he was speeding although no speed summons was issued.

Their proof was that there was no way he could reach NYS Thruway Toll booth A to Toll Both B without doing 90 MPH.

Knowing his driving habits I was not surprised of those figures. My thinking is that they were monitoring him since surely this was not the first time he has done this since he's on the road so often.

--
Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

True

muell9k wrote:
alanrobin1 wrote:

If you don't do anything wrong, then you have no problem.

If you do something wrong, indeed you may have a problem.

Years ago I remember a coworker of mine (salesman) telling us New York State suspended his EZ Pass.
Their reason for doing so was that determined he was speeding although no speed summons was issued.

Their proof was that there was no way he could reach NYS Thruway Toll booth A to Toll Both B without doing 90 MPH.

Knowing his driving habits I was not surprised of those figures. My thinking is that they were monitoring him since surely this was not the first time he has done this since he's on the road so often.

I agree with alanrobin1 - you have nothing to fear if you do nothing wrong. I speed all the time, but no way near that fast. I keep it to a max of 8 mph over on the interstate.

Am investigating EZ Pass now for our trips to NJ.

--
Metricman Nuvi 660, GTM-20 Traffic Receiver Nuvi 3597 GTM-60 Traffic Receiver Williamsburg, VA

Sad world to read this

alanrobin1 wrote:

If you don't do anything wrong, then you have no problem.

It is a very sad world; to read people say this sort of thing is very sad indeed.

The fact that people think and say it is simply an indication that the level of education has decreased and the level of naivete has increased. Knowledge of history is no longer valued and this is the result.

...

muell9k wrote:
alanrobin1 wrote:

If you don't do anything wrong, then you have no problem.

If you do something wrong, indeed you may have a problem.

Years ago I remember a coworker of mine (salesman) telling us New York State suspended his EZ Pass.
Their reason for doing so was that determined he was speeding although no speed summons was issued.

Their proof was that there was no way he could reach NYS Thruway Toll booth A to Toll Both B without doing 90 MPH.

Knowing his driving habits I was not surprised of those figures. My thinking is that they were monitoring him since surely this was not the first time he has done this since he's on the road so often.

This is an often re-told urban legend: E-ZPass is used for speed enforcement between two points.

Actually, that is illegal in NY and numerous other states. There is no credible documented case of that happening, although there are a lot of "friends" and other acquaintances telling folks that have "heard" of this Judging by the timestamps on my E-ZPass account, they are far too unreliable to calculate a speed on anyway.

What IS true is that you can lose your E-ZPass account for speeding THRU a toll booth. For example, in NJ tollbooths (the traditional tollbooths), I believe the threshold is about 16 mph over the posted. You will usually get a warning letter or two before they terminate your account. They really don't want folks speeding through the tolls, which may have employees crossing the lanes to get to work.

PA too

telecomdigest2 wrote:

This is an often re-told urban legend: E-ZPass is used for speed enforcement between two points.

Actually, that is illegal in NY and numerous other states. There is no credible documented case of that happening, although there are a lot of "friends" and other acquaintances telling folks that have "heard" of this Judging by the timestamps on my E-ZPass account, they are far too unreliable to calculate a speed on anyway.

What IS true is that you can lose your E-ZPass account for speeding THRU a toll booth. For example, in NJ tollbooths (the traditional tollbooths), I believe the threshold is about 16 mph over the posted. You will usually get a warning letter or two before they terminate your account. They really don't want folks speeding through the tolls, which may have employees crossing the lanes to get to work.

Written into PA law is that the ez pass can not be used for anything other than collecting tolls in PA.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

I'm Surprised

I'm surprised that some of the jurisdictions haven't yet figured out a way to ticket you & charge it to your EZ Pass!!!

I know. I know. There is ALWAYS the danger of someone from some State Administration who might be reading this!

Have I set the proper level for paranoia this morning???

Have a great Friday.
Fred

PA Turnpike

soberbyker wrote:

Written into PA law is that the ez pass can not be used for anything other than collecting tolls in PA.

I had heard (don’t know if it is actually true) that at one point Pennsylvania did give speeding citations based on recorded travel times between toll booths. Also heard they lost the court cases because they could never demonstrate that the clocks at the toll booths were accurate or calibrated.

Personally, I avoid the PA Turnpike. But when on the Turnpike I always stop at a Rest Stop. I figure if I need to take a bathroom break someplace, it might as well be where it helps my average speed.

not true

The law I referred to was part of the EZPass program from the get go in Pennsylvania, can only be used to collect tolls.

PA actually writes protections like that in a few things, such as a RLC can only be used for enforcing red light laws, nothing else captured by one of the cameras can be used for anything, including a court of law if one caught a criminal act.

zeaflal wrote:
soberbyker wrote:

Written into PA law is that the ez pass can not be used for anything other than collecting tolls in PA.

I had heard (don’t know if it is actually true) that at one point Pennsylvania did give speeding citations based on recorded travel times between toll booths. Also heard they lost the court cases because they could never demonstrate that the clocks at the toll booths were accurate or calibrated.

Personally, I avoid the PA Turnpike. But when on the Turnpike I always stop at a Rest Stop. I figure if I need to take a bathroom break someplace, it might as well be where it helps my average speed.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Ha

something else to think about

This was before the EZPass program

I had heard about this as well from reliable sources as I recall but it was long before the EZPass program.

In fact, I remember getting the evil eye from a guy at the toll booth when he looked at the ticket I handed him. Yes, admittedly I used to drive pretty fast in my younger days on roads where it was safe to do so, although I was quite vigilant about doing so safely which, along with a bit of luck, is why I never had any accidents. Good thing too, because if I had I might not be here.

There's just too much traffic and too many erratic drivers on the road these days to safely drive at those speeds now, at least here on the East Coast. Given the choice between possibly living into my 80's and 90's or driving those numbers, I'll choose living...

soberbyker wrote:

The law I referred to was part of the EZPass program from the get go in Pennsylvania, can only be used to collect tolls.

zeaflal wrote:

I had heard (don’t know if it is actually true) that at one point Pennsylvania did give speeding citations based on recorded travel times between toll booths. Also heard they lost the court cases because they could never demonstrate that the clocks at the toll booths were accurate or calibrated.

...

zeaflal wrote:

I had heard (don’t know if it is actually true) that at one point Pennsylvania did give speeding citations based on recorded travel times between toll booths.

Lots of people have "heard" about this, it is an often repeated urban legend.

Urban legend

telecomdigest2 wrote:

Lots of people have "heard" about this, it is an often repeated urban legend.

Then I wouldn't be surprised if it was started or spread by the turnpike authority to get people to slow down. Perhaps someone was unhappy that they could not monitor speeds in that way so they resorted to spreading rumors about it instead.

Many of these urban legends are started by a person or group trying to manipulate people for some purpose. Just like the Tylenol poisonings were carried out by a group that was heavily invested in a competing product.

Unfortunately though, the poisonings were real.

- Phil

HAHAHA!

Tuckahoemike wrote:

I'm getting old and am already very forgetful. It would be nice if I could tap into those data bases to see what I've been doing these past years. I may have been leading a much more exciting life than I think! LOL

Gosh that's a great reply! Made my day! If I was taking a sip of coffee just now, it would be a disaster and the boss would be making me pay for a new laptop! I wish they would let you look up stuff on yourself...what a hoot! However knowing the gov't, they'll have us in/at all sorts of places we've never been at/visited, and hoo-boy there goes the divorce rate through the roof!!!! surprised

--
"Primum Non Nocere" 2595LMT Clear Channel and Navteq Traffic

...i

Keep in mind that people can and will get their E-ZPass accounts revoked for driving too fast through old toll booths. That is not a myth, although usually you will get a letter first.

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