Navigation App without Data Plan?

The clear winner is Nexus 7. Both on hardware specs & cost effective. I own both Nexus 7 and iPad mini, after a week I decide to return the iPad mini, the most awful thing is the screen with low resolution and no GPS built in.

Yes, the Wi-Fi location is even a bit creepy, imo. I haven't tried driving around looking at the map with only wi-fi enabled (sounds like something to try!) but yes, I think it only uses a connected network to plot the location.

Anyone here old enough to know about how involved Bell/AT&T was with the government, back when it was the only (or main anyway) telephone company around? In the back of my mind I keep thinking that Google is the new millennium version. Whether they are or aren't active with the govt., having a database of locations for inet connections is worth thinking about, imo!

But as you can see I'm old enough to have grown up with only paper maps & spouse navigation so even plotting my position on a map in realtime is somewhat of a marvel. I think the saved tile size may be a bit smaller than 75mi but that's based on using the Google map scale bar. I came out to roughly 55-60mi but even then I have decent detail in a large enough area to find public camping from Harrisburg PA to Roanoke VA. Odds are I'd get a MickyD burger along the way and could swap out tiles on their wi-fi.

Hypothetical.. I'll also take my 765T.

re: "Whether they are or aren't active with the govt., having a database of locations for inet connections is worth thinking about, imo!"

I agree with that.

I thought that the Google location service was based on the "sniffing" done by google street view cars as they drove all over the country. Of course there was a big flap over that when it was revealed that they were sniffing out more than just the Wi-Fi locations: they also (illegally) acquired user data too.

I had turned off the Google Wi-Fi based location service because I wanted the testing I was doing to be based solely on something consistently available everywhere, namely GPS. I also thought the Wi-Fi based location probably could not be very accurate. That last part turns out to not be true. It's also a whole lot faster than acquiring a GPS fix. So using this in conjunction with GPS does help a lot. But it only works if actually connected to a Wi-Fi network. Of course, google maps also needs that to search for anything or plot a route.

I'm still not exactly sure how they do it, but this article explains it: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/networking/how-google-and-everyone...
"How it works, according to Google, is that the Android Location Services periodically checks on your location using GPS, Cell-ID, and Wi-Fi to locate your device. When it does this, your Android phone will send back publicly broadcast Wi-Fi access points' Service set identifier (SSID) and Media Access Control (MAC) data. Again, this isn't just how Google does it; it's how everyone does it. It's Industry practice for location database vendors."
Sounds like they are using the internet connection to send the data about all the other nearby Wi-Fi networks (at least some of which were "sniffed" by google street view cars) in order to triangulate the location. In my case, it's a new router and it stays off most of the time, so they never could have "sniffed" my router. But it still needs a data connection to do what is described above.

More info here: http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/location/strategie...

BTW, google's street view cars now have much higher resolution cameras than before. They are also driving more residential subdivisions than ever before. The license plates of all cars parked in driveways would be plainly visible, but the images online have them automatically blurred out. Of course the original images surely do not. And you never know when a google street view car will pass by. With the current hot news item over the Petraeus affair, the idea that the google street view cars will (potentially) always be watching should give pause to those who might cheat on a spouse.

Also, compare the size (in terms of one-hand holdability):

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/iPod/images/ipad_mini_n7.jpg

Nexus 7 (left)
iPad mini (right)

IMO the one of the best features the Nexus 7 has is portability, it fits snugly in my jeans back pocket or inside my coat breast pocket (slim protective case), the Mini is wider and won't fit.

The T-Mobile rep. I just talked to assured me that the HSPA+ Nexus 7 "tablet" works the same as a Galaxy Note 2 "phone" as far as their network is concerned, meaning that the Nexus 7 can be used with one of their no annual contract plans, listed here: http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/monthly-4g-plans including the second one from the bottom, which is $30 per month for 100 minutes Talk, Unlimited Text and Unlimited data access (First 5GB at up to 4G speeds).

This deal significantly undercuts T-Mobile's own data-only pre-paid broadband access plans: http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/AddOns/Accessories/AccessoryDet... and just about every other carrier's plans too.

This is the first I have heard about being able to use a Nexus 7 as a phone (directly on the cellular network, not VOIP or Skype via the data connection), but the rep assured me that the Nexus 7 "tablet" works the same as a Galaxy Note 2 "phone" in that respect. I asked the rep several times if he was sure, and he said he was. He said that other HSPA+ Android tablets can be connected with those voice/text/data plans too. If this is true, the line between a smartphone and a tablet is now completely blurred. I presume that some apps are required to provide the cell phone talk functionality, but maybe they are already on the HSPA+ Nexus 7?

Sygic is good.

You are correct, I don't need to know the term, but I need to know what they will do.

The only thing I want now is to use gps while close to home and check email at hotels. Nearly all hotels have wifi. But I agree with you that if I pay so much for the unit I should get the one with wifi and cell just in case.

32GB internal storage & Wi-Fi & HSPA+ $299
After looking at the Ipad Mini this Nexus 7 looks pretty good.

I have a pay as you go cell phone with Edge. Never learned how to use the edge and only use the phone for calls while we are away from home. I have a netbook with wifi to check emails and even though it is 10" it is too big and too much to cary with the oversized plugin and then the case to carry both in.

A 7" device sounds great and after reading everything it looks like the 32gb, &Wi-Fi & HSPa for $299 sounds very good.

Thanks so much for all the information.

Just checked these links out and the T-movile has some great prices.

I can't believe all the information y'all have given me. I know so much more now and will know just what I am buying.
Thanks so much....

Have a great evening!!

That's also the problem with having to add extra stuff (like a GPS receiver and/or cellular data "USB stick" or mobile hotspot) and the chargers for that extra stuff, vs. having everything you need internally in one conveniently sized package.

Try giving Copilot GPS a try. It's offline, should be good enough for you to start off with.

Yep, even though CoPilot has many flaws, you can't beat free. CoPilot doesn't require a data connection to do many of the things that people have been asking if google maps will do if a map tile is cached. As you say, CoPilot is "offline" meaning the map data for the entire US is downloaded once, and stored locally on the device. AFAIK, no other free app offers this. Copilot GPS works just like the "full" version, but does not provide voice guidance (or automatic route recalculation if I'm not mistaken).

Also, ALK frequently has the full version on sale for $10 or less (in this case, $8):
"For a limited time only, we’re offering 50% off lifetime use of full voice-guided 3D navigation! But hurry, offer ends November 18, 2012."

http://blog.copilotlive.com/na/2012/11/06/copilot-gps-up-to-...

Recently we tried to use the Nexus 7 for navigation where no wi-fi signal was available. It didn't work. After getting back home I researched the issue. In doing so, I ran across this U-tube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUIZL_rvCIY

It turns out that you need to save the map while you are at a location with wi-fi before using the Navigation app. One of those little itty-bitty details the various help screens seem to have left-out.

After, saving the map, you can then use the Nexus Navigation app. In the video, it seems that after you reach your destination, the Navigation app "dies" (???)

I have NOT yet tested out the advice provided in the u-tube video. So do your own verification.

NOTE: The Nexus has GPS built in. So it always knows were you are!!!!

The webpage below provides a brief summary.
http://ilaks.com/2012/08/16/nexus-7-4-best-offline-navigatio...

You may also want to read the thread: " Nexus 7, full GPS/navigation"
http://androidforums.com/nexus-7/645127-nexus-7-full-gps-nav...

In the interests of clarification for people who are not familiar with what is available, the comments above apply to a specific program - Google Navigation - not to all nav apps running on the Nexus 7.

I have both the Android CoPilot app and the Android TomTom app running on my Nexus 7, and neither program has this limitation - because both programs download and save maps of the entire country during installation.

In addition, there is no "Nexus Navigation app". The reference is to the Google nav app, which runs on Android phones and other Android tablets that have GPS, not just on the Nexus 7.

None of this is of earthshaking importance, but I wanted people who are looking at the Nexus 7 for GPS usage to properly understand what options are available to them.

With best wishes,
- Tom -

Tom, thanks for posting that. I wrote something along the same lines, making the same points, but I'm afraid that my post was a lot less polite than yours, so I deleted it.

So, what you said is absolutely correct.

To recap:
Android apps that store data locally (no data connection needed for searching, trip planning, navigating or re-routing):
Navigon MobileNavigator https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.navigon.na....

TomTom Navigation https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tomtom.usa...

CoPilot Live Premium https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alk.copilo....
or
http://blog.copilotlive.com/na/2012/11/06/copilot-gps-up-to-...
($7.99 through 11/18/2012)

CoPilot GPS (free, but no voice guidance) is also available

There are a few others too (Sygic, Route 66) but trust me, US users probably shouldn't waste their time with those.

It does get confusing when I don't know anything about what is being talked about. This post of GoneNomad's is great, and Tom's helped is great also.

Thanks both of you for your help. I am sure there are others out there reading this just like me that need to know and you help so much.....

The links are just what I need. Thanks again for all the help.

been following this thread closely. Thanks to mgarledge for starting it and to those who have provided the great info.

I can't justify the recurring costs of a smartphone because I don't need the PHONE functions. I use my cell phone only for emergency and when traveling and I can't beat the $80 per year cost of my simple Tracfone.

Although I still prefer my nuvi for navigation, I do think smart phone is the way of the future. I would like to try something that is smaller than a laptop, has wifi and has some of the smartphone functions and apps including navigation. I am not an Apple hater, but I don't much care for Apple's closed architecture and the lack of interfaces on the iPad products.

So this thread has been very interesting to me. The nexus 7 looks promising. I wish it had a micro SD slot and a micro HDMI port. Maybe the next generation ...

Two caveats about the Nexus 7:

The headphone jack is not a combined headphone/microphone jack that most other tablets & smartphones have. The significance of this is that any credit card reader (e.g.: Square) that needs a combined headphone/microphone jack will not work on a Nexus 7. The Nexus 7 does have two built-in microphones though.

The Nexus 7 has no built-in card reader, and will only recognize external storage plugged into its micro-USB port (which will require a microUSB-to-USB adapter) via the use of a third-party app, such as ES File Explorer or File Manager HD, both of which are free.

My cell phone usage is much the same as yours. But I can (and do) beat $80 per year, though. T-Mobile offers pre-paid cell phone service for as little as $10 per year, once you have put at least $100 on the account ($100 adds 1000 minutes, $50 adds 460 minutes, etc.).

ref.: http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/pay-as-you-go-plans

I add $50 or $100 if needed, otherwise only $10 per year. As my voice usage has been dropping, I have usually been adding only $10 per year. T-Mobile has three types of pre-paid plans, but this plan has no daily cost (unlike most of the competitors). Also, you NEVER lose old dollars/minutes (as long as the account stays active), which is even better than AT&T's "rollover" annual contract plans, which only accumulate the unused minutes for the past year. Also, I can buy a refill for less than face value (and no tax) online. In comparison, a contract plan has fees & taxes that typically add about 15% to the nominal monthly cost.

I have three phones set up this way, which is more convenient for me because I'm not one of those people who always carries a phone with me everywhere I go. Instead, I keep the phones where I might need them (in each car, etc).

Yeah... I agree. The problem is that most tablets only have a micro SD slot, but most cameras use a normal SD card card, and I'd rather not have yet another adapter to deal with nor have to handle such tiny cards either. That's one reason originally bought the Toshiba Thrive 10. The newer Toshiba Excite 10 also has a full-size SD card slot. I assume there must be a few others too. But I would also assume that with the thin-obsession with amongst the buyers that drive manufacturer decisions to make tablets thinner, tablets with a full-size card slot will become very rare indeed. Personally, I'd rather have a tablet that is narrow enough to hold securely in the palm of ONE hand, but could be thicker to accomodate a much larger, longer-lasting battery, and all the standard ports like a Toshiba Thrive. Add a keyboard cover to the equation and you've got the same concept as the ASUS Transformer (except that one is too big and too expensive).

with most of your points. I have looked at the Transformer and it seems like a really nice tablet. But as you said ... too big for what I am wanting.

So, although I am posting this a little late, are, or was there any killer prices on the Nexus 7 for Black Friday?

The only one I saw was $249 for a 16g with screen protector, case and stylus at Office Depot, and they were out of both 16g and 32g

Reading the Nexus 7 forum the consensus is that the price is so low that every day is a black Friday for that tablet.

You are a lucky man, to have a wife that can navigate!!

My wife is Navigationally Challenged and I only half joke when I say that the GPS has kept our marriage intact on a long trip.

Some of the nav apps are on sale this weekend

http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/11/23/our-huge-list-of-bla...

Since there has been some discussion for the iPad Mini and Nexus 7, here is an interesting comparison:

http://www.howardforums.com/content.php/1155-Our-Apple-iPad-...

While Tablets are now the norm, it’s hard to believe that the original iPad only came out about 2 and a half years ago. Tablets have been around for years but it wasn’t till the iPad came out, that they really took off.

Now 2 and half years later, iPads have sort of matured to the point that you don’t have to buy the fanciest one, to buy one that’s usable.

It’s the perfect time for Apple to release an entry level iPad because it doesn’t have to suck. Here’s the iPad Mini. It’s an iPad with a 7.9” display.
Really, there’s nothing too cutting edge about the Mini. It’s basically an iPad 2 with a camera that’s similar to the iPhone 4/iPad 3’s stuffed into a smaller body. It uses the lightning connector that debuted on the iPhone 5.

A smaller body makes it more mobile. When it comes to tablets, I like to think about them being portable or mobile. A portable tablet is something you can carry around the house. While you can use it when you’re walking around, it’s easier if you sit down. If you do use it when you’re out, it’s because you’ve stopped and can take it out of your bag.

A mobile tablet is easier to use while you’re moving. It’s easier to carry, which makes it easier to whip out while you’re out. It’s also more inconspicuous, you can use it in public without drawing as much attention. Whether the last point is a good or bad thing is up to you.

There’s an old saying “The best camera is the one you have with you”. This also applies to tablets. I love my iPad 2 but I never use it because it’s too big. I dislike taking it with me when I’m out.

Like the iPad 2, the iPad Mini has a 1024x768 display. While it’s not cutting-edge, it has decent viewing angles, it’s bright and it works fine in bright sunlight. It’s worth pointing that the Nexus 7’s display is smaller with a higher resolution. That means compared to the 7, the Mini’s display looks pretty coarse. Looking at the numbers, the 7 has a pixel density of 216ppi vs the Mini’s 163ppi. Since we have our ruler out, the iPad 2 weighs in a mere 132ppi. It’s not quite a case of trying to read something a caveman scratched on a wall but the difference between each display is noticeable.

Is this a big deal? Sort of. Personally, while I can tell the iPad Mini’s display is more blocky, it’s something I get used to quickly. Don’t forget, I have access to many, many devices. Many of these devices have sharper displays. I guess the difference is most noticeable if you’re doing a lot of reading.

Actually, if you’ve used the iPad 2 and don’t mind the display then you won’t mind the Mini’s because it’s actually sharper.

Speaker, lightning connector

headphone jack

silent mode switch, volume buttons

While the Mini is Apple’s ‘budget tablet’, they didn’t skimp on the body. It’s metal which looks and feels fantastic. The edges have a beautiful beveled finish plus the buttons look and feel great. That said, while the metal is pretty, it’s a tricky finish. Toss is in your bag without a case and the Mini might dent if it hits something else in there.

When I think of my iPad 2, another reason why I don’t find it mobile is because it’s not very easy to type on unless I’m sitting down. I pretty much type exclusively in portrait mode (on phones too) because I like how the keyboard takes up less of the screen. On the iPad 2, I can type in portrait mode with my thumbs but I’m not very efficient at it. I have to sit down if I want to pound out some text.

On the Mini, typing is really easy because I’m able to reach all the keys with my thumb easily.

Like the iPhone 5 and newest iPad, the Mini ships ditches the old 30 pin connector for Apple’s new lightning connector. The lightning connector is great because it’s smaller and most importantly; it fits in either way. If you’ve ever tried to attach the 30 pin connector in the dark, you’ll know what I mean.

That said, the new connector requires an adapter if you’re going to use it with your old 30 pin accessories. Apparently, the cable is harder to copy too so you’ll have to pay more.

I’m annoyed that Apple includes a 5 watt (1 amp) charger with the Mini. The same you get with the iPhone 5. They should have included a 10 watt charger like they do with their other iPads.

Camera:

The camera can take picture really, really quickly. It would have been nice if Apple could have put a burst mode into the camera.

I’ll be honest, I don’t expect too much out of tablet camera but I do expect more than what you get with the iPad 2 so kudos for Apple here for putting a decent camera in the Mini.

Software:

The Mini runs iOS 6. If you’ve used iOS 6 before, there aren’t any surprises. The real story here is that all the apps designed for the iPad 2 will run on the iPad Mini as well. If you have an iPad already and provided you have enough space, you can backup your old iPad to your computer or iCloud and restore it to the Mini.

Compared with the iPhone, iPads have a few minor changes.

I like how Apple has made it so the side-mounted switch can now be used to lock the orientation instead. If you prefer it as a mute switch you can do that too.

On the iPhone, double tapping the home button and swiping left allows you toggle the orientation. On iPads, doing this also allows you to adjust the brightness and volume (this is nothing new).

If you own an iPhone and are new to iPads, there’s something you should know about the apps. There are basically 3 types of apps; ones made for the iPhone, made for the iPad and made for both.

Ones made for the iPad will only run on iPads. They’re optimized for the iPad’s 4:3 aspect ratio displays. Ones made for the iPhone will run on the iPad but the iPad runs them inside a window. What really irritates me is that the window is tiny. If you want to make it bigger you have to run it in 2x mode which doubles the size including all the pixels. So now you have a silly looking application with big blocky text and pixels.

Apps that are made for both will run on either iPhones or iPads. These apps will have a plus sign in the top left corner in the box you click to buy or download them. All else being equal, if you’re deciding between 2 apps and one will work on both iPhone and iPad, pick that one.

Apps that are made for iPads won’t run at all on iPhones. If you can, avoid these ones unless you have no choice.

Performance:

Really, there isn’t much to say about the performance. It’s the same chip you get with the iPad 2 (actually, the second generation iPad 2). Note that I don’t have iPad 3 or 4 results here because I don’t own one. Since the iPad 4 (iPad with Retina Display) has a slightly higher clocked version of the iPhone 5’s chip I’d expect its scores to be slightly higher than the 5’s.

SunSpider (higher is better):

SunSpider tests a browser’s javascript performance. Since it runs in any browser it allows us to compare Apples and Androids.

Apple iPhone 5: 911.7
Apple iPad 2: 1436.2
Apple iPad Mini: 1482.4
Google Nexus 7: 1675.4

While not cutting edge, the Mini and Nexus 7 do just fine in this benchmark. In case you’re wondering why the 7 and it’s 4 cores doesn’t do better, SunSpider rarely uses more than 2 cores so the extra 2 cores don’t really come into play here.

Peacemaker:

Apple iPhone 5: 807
Apple iPad 2: 532
Apple iPad Mini: 525
Google Nexus 7: 452

Peacemaker is another cross platform benchmark. The Mini with it’s lower resolution display manages to outscore the 7.

GL Benchmark 2.5 Egypt on-screen:

GL Benchmark is a 3D gaming benchmark that is available for both Android and iOS.

Apple iPhone 5: 4426
Apple iPad Mini: 2808
Apple iPad 2: 2725
Google Nexus 7: 1611

Note that I didn’t include the off-screen tests here. Since games run at a device’s native resolution I didn’t post the offscreen scores because they’re simply not important.

Battery life:

GL Benchmark 2.5 battery test:

GL Benchmark 2.5 Battery test (mins, higher is better):
Apple iPad 2: 280
Apple iPad Mini: 275
Google Nexus 7: 213

While the 7 is handily beaten by the Mini here, both will probably make it through the day, though having used both, the Nexus 7 can sometimes cut it close.

Conclusion:

I often talk about playing the hardware game in my reviews. Since all mobile devices have similar parts (ARM processors, RAM, storage, a touch screen, battery, etc), they all have to play the hardware game. However, hardware is only part of the game. There’s also the user experience and of course a company’s brand.

Brand is a funny thing. If you have 2 identical products, most consumers will pay more for the one with a stronger brand. No doubt about who is the top dog in the tablet space. So you’ll have to pay the “Apple tax” if you want an iPad.

Then there’s the hardware. It’s devices like the iPad Mini which make people think that Apple is getting complacent. But then again, what manufacturer saves their best for their most affordable device? The Galaxy Note II is dripping with cutting edge hardware yet the Galaxy Ace IIx is basically warmed over pieces from previous generation Galaxies.

While the iPad Mini’s specs aren’t going to make you drool, they’re sufficient for whatever you’re going to throw at it for the next while. What’s interesting is that since the Mini is smaller you can use it in a lot of situations where you couldn’t before because the other iPads are too big. You still get the same user experience you would with other iPads.

Apple really needs to release a high-end SKU of the iPad Mini with a Retina display, 1GB RAM and an A6 processor. The Mini is a great device. I think once people use it, they’ll be willing to pay a premium for it.

What capacity?:

If you’re buying an iPhone, I don’t recommend anyone buy a 16GB model because between the camera, apps, videos, etc 16GB (actually around 13GB) fills up way too fast. Personally I have a 32GB.

Since most people will be snapping less pictures on the iPad and since they tend to be more companion devices, you can get by with 16GB of storage, though 32 would be nice. Of course, it totally depends on you.

LTE or WiFi?:

Apple charges $139 if you want LTE. It’s not a small amount of money to be sure but the $139 allows you a lot of flexibility. It has to do with the portability vs mobility which I mentioned earlier. Having LTE allows you to get the Mini connected almost anywhere. You could argue that all you have to do is tether the Mini to your phone but, most phones already struggle with battery life, tethering is both inconvenient and from my experience, a last resort.

Another thing to consider is that the Mini makes a great wireless hotspot. You can tether for hours with it since it’s battery capacity is substantially higher than any phones.

I say get the LTE if you can afford it but if you can’t, the WiFi version won’t kill you.

vs iPad with Retina display (iPad 4):

The difference in size really makes a real difference. I already spent many words explaining mobility vs portability above, so I’ll just leave it at that. For an extra $190 bucks, you get a faster processor, quadruple the resolution, a bigger battery and more RAM. All these will probably make the 4 more future-proof. I don’t have Apple’s future plans in front of me but I’m betting that the 4 will probably receive updates for longer than the Mini will, mostly because it has 1GB of RAM vs 512MB.

So buy the iPad 4 if you want something that’s more future-proof (though no guarantees), if you need the extra performance (most probably don’t) or if you need the super high resolution display.

vs iPad 2:

The Mini is basically an iPad 2 with a smaller display, a new connector, and a better camera. Buy the 2 if you need the bigger screen. Otherwise save your cash and get the Mini. I think most of you will be better off with the Mini.

vs Nexus 7:

Ah, here’s the loaded question. They’re competitors because both are the poster child for a good deal on their respective platforms.

Actually, price-wise, they’re not really competitors. For less than the price of a 16GB WiFi iPad, you can a 32GB Nexus 7 with HSPA+. Or you could think of it this way, A 16GB iPad Mini is $329 vs $199 for a 16GB Nexus 7. Indeed the Nexus 7 is a smashing deal and very hard to ignore.

With a higher resolution screen, more RAM (1GB vs 512MB), and 2 extra processing cores, the 7 has the edge on paper too. Indeed, if you buy solely based on paper specs, you should run out now and get a Nexus 7.

The real question is whether you want an iOS tablet and are willing to pay the Apple Tax. On phones, if you want the best phone possible you have 2 choices; the iPhone 5 or the Samsung Galaxy Note II. A close second would be the LG Optimus G and a few other Android devices. My point is that on the phone side Android and iOS are very close.

Android has come a long way from the disaster that was Honeycomb last year but they’ve still got a ways to.

Android vs iOS aside, the more important point is the question of portability vs mobility. My Nexus 7 is much more portable than the Mini because it has a 7” 16:9 screen with a that is substantially narrower.

I can comfortably cradle it with one hand and use it with the other.

The Mini is too wide to cradle with my hand so I have to hold on its side. Since the Mini is a lot thinner, it’s actually not comfortable to hold like that. The best way to use it is with both hands hold it and using your thumbs to interact with the display.

One of the coolest things about the Nexus 7 is that it fits in some of my pockets. While I can’t fit it in my jeans, it fits just fine in my blazer’s pocket. The Mini is a bit of a stretch so the Nexus has the advantage here.

So buy a Nexus 7 right? Not so fast, I think that the Mini is a more well sorted device. When I first got the 7, the first thing that I did was load some videos on it so I could watch it with my wife (we ditched our bedroom TV). It did a terrible job because the built-in speaker wasn’t loud enough - even indoors in a quiet room! While I admit loading videos onto any iOS device is a pain, the speaker is loud enough for any reasonable environment.

There’s also the screen. While the Mini’s’ display looks much more primitive than the 7’s, the 7’s isn’t bright enough. Sure, it’s adequate for indoors but outdoors, the Mini is a better choice.

Finally, there’s the camera. I don’t demand much from a tablet’s rear-facing camera but that doesn’t mean I don’t need one. Sometimes, it’s just really convenient to have one.

If I had to choose Nexus 7 or iPad Mini, I say go for the Mini if you can afford it but you probably won’t be disappointed with the 7 because it’s just such a great deal.

Pros:

cheap for an iOS tablet
loud speaker
bright display
camera is fine for a tablet
smaller than other iPads

Cons:

expensive for what you get
low resolution display
too thin (a pro for some people)

There is so much great information on this thread...

I can affort either one but for some reason, after reading all the post I still lean toware the Nexus 7 with all the wheels and whistles. (after reading this in preview I mean bells and whistles but didn't correct this as I thought someone might like the laugh). Also, I like the idea of holding it in one hand. Still looking at all my options and I have been known to change my mind.

I do thank all of you for all the great information and I now know that I can get one of these tablets and get a program like copilot and have a gps map with turn by turn without any service. That is one thing I was trying to find out but I also found out so much more. Never having used any android or ios (or osi)(too lazy to look back and see), I knew nothing of how they work or what to look for or if they were what I needed. I now know about this. What a lot of great information.

Thanks everyone.

For the sake of transparency can you tell us wich one you own or have personally used?

The comparison was copied from the howardforums link.

I don't own one yet, but I am planning on getting one soon. For the sake of fair disclosure, we did buy an iPad Mini, which my wife will be getting for Christmas. She specifically has that one on her Christmas list. Since she already has an iPod Touch it will sort of just be a bigger iPod Touch for her!

I, on the other hand, have an Android Garminfone. I really like Garmin navigation. I am intentionally dragging my feet before buying, hoping that the information regarding Garmin having a Garmin StreetPilot For Android app is accurate. If it is not accurate, then I might just go for the iPad Mini because it does have Garmin available right now.

I generally use Google Maps on my phone (Samsung GS3).

But have been debating for countries I am not using my data or phone but just for nav to grab and download Navfree with the maps for the area...

I have a Nexus 7 on order. I will use Co-Pilot once I get it, but I am just wondering if anybody here has used both TomTom and Navigon Android versions or phones or tablets? Which of those is preferable and is either one better than Co-Pilot?

I opened up my Nexus 7 last night and I downloaded Co-Pilot this morning since I already paid for that some time back. I sure hope the Garmin StreetPilot For Android Onboard is available soon, though!

Keey us updated as to how you like the Nexus 7 and Co-Pilot and how it works.
Thanks

We went a trip with my android phone and I was able to download and make available offline maps using wifi and without anyphone service.

So I bought a 32GB memory card thinking I could download and make available offline, the entire US.

Alas, google has some arbitrary limit on how much map you can make available offline. I think its something around 60mb.

Dumb google.

Has anyone tried the Acer A110-07g08u 7" tablet? Comparing it to the Nexus 7, I like the fact that it has a micro SD slot and HDMI port. I don't like that it has lower screen resolution, only 8GB and apparently lower performance than the Nexus 7. Anyone know how well it works with the navigation apps? For $199 I am tempted to try it out.

Mgarledge, I am curious to know if you ever purchased a Nexus 7, Ipad mini or some other tablet. If so, how do you like it by now?

Edit: I have been doing some further research on the Acer tablet and although there are not a lot of reviews, the more I read the better I like it.

The one thing that concerns me is that you apparently can't run apps stored on the micro SD card. I am not sure if this is a limitation of the device or of the version of Android it uses. But in any case, since it only has 8 GB of onboard memory that can't be upgraded, it makes me wonder about the feasibility of running a navigation app with onboard maps. Does anyone know if any of the Android nav apps allow having the app run from internal storage using maps stored on the micro SD card?

I have extensively tested both Navigon and Co-Pilot on my Thrive tablet. Navigon has many advantages over Co-Pilot, the best of which is that the voice directions are better. Navigon pronounces street names much more clearly (using some form of pre-recorded sounds rather than purely TTS), and it also says the street names for roads that are also highways (which CoPilot usually does not do). These two advantages over CoPilot are significant.

But Navigon has more problems with longer trips; in fact for trips over roughly 1,000 miles, Navigon's wacky routing makes it almost unusable. But you can work around this by breaking long trips up into shorter segments. IMO, Navigon's POI functionality and display is better overall than CoPilot. Navigon shows POI logo icons on the map; CoPilot shows generic category icons.

Though either one is loud enough while inside, you'll probably need an external speaker to hear either one in the noisy environment of a vehicle. I recommend this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858994... which is $14 (deal ends 2/17) or IMO this one is even better: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Z205-Portable-Computer-Spea... because it directs the sound toward you, whereas the other one directs the sound to the side.

I have research everything, and the Nexus 7 32gb is the one I want. I asked my husband for it, nearly always get what I want, but he said he couldn't see any need for it. He used the excuse of my 10" Netbook, Nuvi 750, Nuvi 2450.......
I told him I didn't need it but I wanted it....He said I could get it if I needed it but I could not give him a good reason I needed it.....Still working on it and a Nexus 7 is what I will get if I can ever talk him into it.

On another point, when looking for the Co-Pilot I can not find the one to buy. I have found a couple of places that say it is discountinued. That's my kind of luck.....

If I can't talk him into it I want a gps to go on my Netbook and Co-Pilot or something like that on the Netbook. (As a backup for my Nuvi's...That didn't work as he said two Nuvi's were backups for each other...)

And I love looking at that picture of your beautiful '55 Bel Air!

If your Netbook has bluetooth... get A Garmin GLO or Bad Elf GPS Pro... or something similar...

My husband is working on the over heating problem. He put a 454 in it and the pulley kit is not working correctly so he has to order a new one with a smaller water pump pulley than the crank pulley and hopes this will fix the overheating.
Can't wait to put it in a car show in the area...

Do not know anything about bluetooth, will have to read and see if it's has it... Thanks.

If your netbook doesn't have bluetooth, there are some inexpensive USB attached pucks (GPS receivers) that will support navigation on a laptop. The USB cable is a bit of an annoyance, but before I had my Garmin I used to do it this way with a laptop and Delorme Street Atlas USA.

Will look at this.

This month is our 49th wedding anniversary and my husband just had me order me a Nexus 7.....
He is so sweet...

I got the Nexus 7 32gb 4G...

Can't wait to get it.

Now to look at the apps for it..

Thanks to everyone on this post who helped me so much. I did not know anything about a tablet and now because of you I was able to order one knowing what I was ordering and what I wanted.
Thanks again to everyone.

Hope you have and enjoyable day and many more.

I bought the CoPilot Live Premium USA for my Nexus 7
Have only played with it in the house and it looks pretty nice.

Will update when I have used it.

Just looking at it I will still use Jill Map for my long trips but that is now. Will see what happens later.

I like the POIs I can put in Jill Map and don't see any way to put extra POIs in the CoPilot Live Premium USA.

way, might have to look in their web site, but I thought some posted it here.

Will look some more.

Edit:
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/31770

Thanks, I found this.

Congratulations on getting your new Nexus 7. I'm sure you will find it useful.

Though the Nexus 7 is not an LTE device, it can connect to the data networks of T&T or T-Mobile. T-Mobile has faster 3G & 4G non-LTE service than AT&T, but AT&T has significantly larger coverage area in some part of the country (mainly out west).

If you need cellular data access, but don't need it all the time, you can get "session-based" AT&T 4G wireless data service here: https://buyasession.att.com/sbd/Common/ShopRatePlans.action

Data Plans
Tablets and Gaming Devices
omestic DataConnect Pass Plans Cost
DataConnect Month Pass 250MB $14.99
DataConnect Month Pass 3GB $30.00
DataConnect Month Pass 5GB $50.00

It is my understanding that these AT&T pre-paid data plans do not have the taxes & fees added to them like the regular post-paid data plans.

AT&T's post-paid data plans are here: http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/plans/dataplans.html
In this case, the post-paid plans have the same data for the same base cost as the pre-paid plans (which is unique to tablets, unlike laptops or hotspots, which get more data in post-paid plans than pre-paid). But the post-paid plans have automatic overage charges, whereas the pre-paid plans just stop when the data limit is reached. I was told that the post-paid plans have a $36 activation fee. Also, the fees added to the post-paid are the same as if it was voice service, which can be $3 or $4 per month, even on the $15/month plan.

AT&T does have a $100 rebate offer for any tablet signed up for service, or added to an existing account: http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/tablets.html

T-Mobile treats tablets the same as any other data device (i.e.: laptop, hotspot): http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/Cell-Phone-Plans.aspx?cat... and their least expensive monthly data is $25.00 for 1.5GB