RLC in Pennsylvania

I had heard they were thinking about expanding to Pittsburg but it looks like this will open things up to the whole state.

Thanks for the tip, we'll keep a watch on this development!

~Angela (aka GlobeTurtle)

The original bill was going to allow 2nd and 3rd class cities to have them, amendments brought it to any municipality with a population over 20,000.

That's probably a good thing... everyone should share in the pain.

More like everyone should get used to following the law. It doesn't have to be a moral judgement, it's a conscious choice. Do you want to stop when you're supposed to?

I was just at a party in MD yesterday, and they seem to be so over it, and accept it as a fact of life. 30 mph, means, 30-41, as 42 = $40 fine. $40 isn't the end of the world, but when you pass through 7 speed cams in 10 miles, you could face $560 in fines just to attend a party. So they do the logical, observe the speed limit.

The technology is so cheap and easily deployable, it's the legislature that's light years behind. When our kids are our age, they'll be breaking the law much less frequently than we do.

I mean my goodness, my grandpa's generation didn't even report stock trade wins as capital gains to the IRS if they didn't feel like it, can you even imagine?

So I'm sitting at a red light this morning, waiting for it to change. Across the intersection is a car waiting to turn left (No green arrows either side and no "Leading" green).

A car blows right thru from the opposite direction. I'm surprised that they didn't even slow down or get T-boned.

As she passed by me, I noticed that a cellphone was glued to her ear. Hope she didn't get any pedistrians went she got to the Stop sign at Duke of Gloucester Street.

That was a time a camera was needed.

Again, the way I see it is we don't need to judge that person. why she's talking on the cell, why a guy is shaving, why people are distracted and/or not following the law. We simply need to penalize them.

They may be very nice people, go to church, pay their taxes, donate to the United Way. But they broke the law. Again, in my MD example, it's just too expensive to get 3-5 tickets every day to work, or going to a party, whatever. Eventually, the pocketbook dictates that it's not feasible to continue paying fines without modifying behavior. And, lo and behold, the behavior changes.

How many years have cops been writing tickets for lawbreakers? It's 2012, and people are still breaking the law. There's nothing wrong with using technology to get people to follow the law.

Partner, I'm on your side. Wasn't preaching morality. Agree with you 100%.

Just another example of machines replacing humans.

Because we allow them to.

I have gotten a few speed light camera tickets but never a red light camera ticket.

I cannot be more opposed to these cameras.

True, everyone should obey the law, but those who break the law are able to face their accusers with due process. Except for camera viloations.

The camera is not your accuser. It's the official bringing the evidence provided by the camera into court that is your accuser. You do get to face your accuser before the judge when you are found guilty based on the evidence provided by the camera.

If a cop clocks you with radar and gives you a speeding ticket, is the cop the accuser, or the radar gun? As Box Car said, the camera is simply a means to collect evidence, just like that radar gun.

because, as we now know, the gubbamint can tax you whenever and wherever it wants...even if Barack "Read My Lips" al-Chicago says it ain't a tax Beware the savage jaw of 1984!

Red light & Speed Cameras are just one more area in which the population & government are being polarized.

This is significant. In the past if you asked a random citizen does the government do right, you'd get an immediate answer - of course. Now over speed cameras, taxes, social programs, spending in general - the differences are being magnified.

Good thing I don't have to live another 30 years. This place may be unlivable!

Fred

We are the master and they the servants...for too many years they have been of the opinion the converse is true.

Does anybody even believe themselves when they claim the laser clocked them at some speed they weren't doing, or is it just because they know they can get away with it?

I've told the story before, I did 52 in a 25, hey, I was wrong. Was in a real hurry, related to the airport/flight etc. Doesn't justify it. I got caught, and I was a man. Told the officer guilty, yes I was doing 52, I even saw my speedo at 60 a little further back. Long story short he told me to plead not guilty, and they would be lenient. I went to court and the prosecutor gave me a 30 in a 25, which is a zero point violation. I looked up my driving record 13 mos. later, and it was clean.

The reason I mention this story is I got caught red-handed, stone cold busted. I don't try to deny what I did. But I learned a lesson and try to follow the speed limit within 5 mph, have done so ever since.

Again, I cite MD. People there have adjusted their behavior. Proof that the technology works as intended. PA, welcome to civilization.

If you go to the court and the cop fails to show, the ticket is dismissed. That cannot be done with a camera citation.

If you appear in court on the day scheduled and there is no one to present the evidence, then you would have the citation dismissed. Same rules.

In the People's Republic of Maryland, you can go to court and show the car was no longer registered to you, you weren't the one driving, or that the car was stolen prior to the ticket.

Other than that, you are gulity and there is no one to present evidence.

It may be different in other states, but not the land of pleseant living.

The reason it's set right now at populations of 20,000 or more is the vendor won't put them up if they can't see a hefty profit. If the vendor forecasts a hefty profit at 10,000 then the law will be changed to accommodate. Right now the vendor doesn't want to put up RLC's in municipalities with less than 20,000 as the profit is not there. The judge is just being obedient and giving the vendor what they want.

but the sheeple don't understand that.

FWIW the new Pennsylvania law includes the following language:

In fact if you take the time to read the bill they spell out a lot of stuff explicitly, including the duration of the yellow light.

.

I thought the duration of the yellow was federally mandated.

Never heard that, either way PA spelled it out in the new law. When folks hear RLC's are coming they claim "they" will shorten the yellow to generate money, looks like PA addressed that.

Personally I don't like the cameras, I'm against all government intrusions, but I'm not among the paranoid that think they are nothing more than revenue generators.

.

Federal law is based on the MUTCD or Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices. It states there must be a transition period without specifying any duration. The Institute of Traffic Engineers are the ones that have the formula for calculating the duration of a yellow light. That formula is based on the speed limit and grade of the road. Their formula is a recommendation, not a law.

Ah, thanks. I knew it came from some governing body. Last I heard, some watchdog groups are taking some municipalities to court for shortening the yellow whenever a RLC was installed.

Obviously, that's cheating. The way it should be is you get a ticket, for running a red light. No games. Think about it, how many people actually cheat on their taxes, think very little about it, and bank, literally, on the fact that the IRS can't handle the backlog of returns which prompt audits. And the cheaters get away with it. But technology is helping there as well. Why is there an insistence that it's unconstitutional to have mechanisms in place to adjust society's illegal behavior? John Edwards showed all of us how no technology nor social mores are gonna stop a Constitutional guy like him. He sure exercised his rights.

making the statement. When shortening posts that have multiple quotes in them preview the post before pressing the submit button.

MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME

Not that I'm against following the law but PA usually already has a plan in place to screw things up (and get more money out of you) before they ever start anything. The RLC companies aren't going to get involved just for the price of the installation and maintenance of the equipment, that's not enough money for them. So you have to guess that someone has already figured the loopholes out before the law was signed, we just haven't figured what they are have. We get to wait for the SURPRISE!