GPS versus Droid

 

My son and I made a short trip to a friends house I don't think I'd been to before last Sunday. We both use Garmins all the time but we took his truck which didn't happen to have one of his Garmins in it. So we used his Motorolla Razor. He was driving so I held it. He'd briefly used his phone before but he was holding it those times.

The directions were good, I can see why people look at this as a viable option. The display informaiton was pretty small to be visible if he had a mount for his phone on the dash. The bigger issues were the volume was way too low for his old truck and the screen was not visible in only moderately bright sunlight. The sound could have been turned up but I doubt it could go loud enough in that truck - but a nuvi would probably struggle too if not tied into the car radio. But if you can't hear it and you can't see the screen, how do you know what you need to do? We kind of knew where we were going so we managed to fill in the gaps but it could have been an issue.

I think GPS capability is a "better than nothing" rather than a good alternative to a GPS at this point. If they fix the displays, there are good docking options (maybe they exist already?), and do something with the sound (maybe not an issue in a normal vehicle), then and only then, they might replace GPSs. The screen size was not as much of an issue as I thought but the character size is appropriate only for young people with good eyes.

We did not get a phone call while using the phone this way - do they handle that OK?

Jim

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@nuvic320

According to the information at www.its.dot.gov/strategic_plan2010_2014/img_descrip.htm , the number of dedicated GPS devices is projected to continue growing. On this I believe there is no room for argument. Your statement regarding the death of the dedicated GPS receiver however is demonstrably false.

The projections show the number of dedicated GPS receivers will increase from 20 million units in 2007 to 50 million in 2015. While 50 million units is only 1/8th of the 410 million smartphones projected for 2015, if the dedicated GPS receiver's days were as numbered as you believe them to be, the 2015 projections should be less than the 2007 numbers.

The difference between developing a theory and supporting a theory aside, if the best you can do is to attack posters and their arguments by posting the same tired rhetoric without facts to back it up, then you need to take your ball and go home.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Please see

This link before continuing to participate in this discussion.

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/28855

~Angela

Been there a few times

abin wrote:

Actually, Tom is right. In Washington DC, there is a section of I-395 is underground and with splits before going above ground. I should take a drive with GPS to see how it works.

I've been on this section of I-395 a few times, more than likely you will lose the signal at some point before the split. Prior to entering any tunnel I check the GPS to see what it wants me to do on the other side just in case.

Another similar example is when passing through the Holland Tunnel from NJ to NYC, there are 5 exits that you can take just after exiting the tunnel. If you haven't re-acquired the satellites it could be quite frustrating if you didn't look to see what the next turn will be.

Fortunately I have a general idea of the area and I know which exit I need to take beforehand, so no big deal.

--
Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

thinking about same thing

shrifty wrote:

I've been on this section of I-395 a few times, more than likely you will lose the signal at some point before the split. Prior to entering any tunnel I check the GPS to see what it wants me to do on the other side just in case.

Another similar example is when passing through the Holland Tunnel from NJ to NYC, there are 5 exits that you can take just after exiting the tunnel. If you haven't re-acquired the satellites it could be quite frustrating if you didn't look to see what the next turn will be.

Fortunately I have a general idea of the area and I know which exit I need to take beforehand, so no big deal.

Some GPS with dead reckoning capability can do estimate when driving in tunnel. I also noticed late model GPS device is likely to capture signal quicker when out of tunnel.

My 340 is fairly quick

abin wrote:

Some GPS with dead reckoning capability can do estimate when driving in tunnel. I also noticed late model GPS device is likely to capture signal quicker when out of tunnel.

My c340 is rather quick when exiting a tunnel, but just to be safe I take note of what I may need to do once I get out. Almost 100% of the time it isn't an issue, just preparing for the small chance I might need to decide quickly.

--
Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

wake up time

shrifty wrote:

My c340 is rather quick when exiting a tunnel, but just to be safe I take note of what I may need to do once I get out. Almost 100% of the time it isn't an issue, just preparing for the small chance I might need to decide quickly.

I think so.
I noticed if my last position when I used GPS is far away from where I am now. For example, fly back from Seattle, it can take relative long time to recalibrate. Not sure if this happens to smartphone if anyone knows.

Traveling through a tunnel is not a problem, my 1490 is quick coming back.

reacquisition times

abin wrote:

I think so.
I noticed if my last position when I used GPS is far away from where I am now. For example, fly back from Seattle, it can take relative long time to recalibrate. Not sure if this happens to smartphone if anyone knows.

Traveling through a tunnel is not a problem, my 1490 is quick coming back.

It's due to the differences on how the units obtain their location. Your GPS relies on the stored positions of the satellites, the almanac, while your cell phone gets preliminary position data from the cell tower. The GPS has to download a new almanac so it knows its current position.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

I was lucky with mine

abin wrote:

I noticed if my last position when I used GPS is far away from where I am now. For example, fly back from Seattle, it can take relative long time to recalibrate. Not sure if this happens to smartphone if anyone knows.

Traveling through a tunnel is not a problem, my 1490 is quick coming back.

I traveled quite a distance from my last known position (few thousand miles) and my GPS didn't take too long to acquire the satellites. Of course, I have a very clear view of the sky with no obstructions.

--
Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

smartphones know your position faster

smartphone GPS find your position pretty instantly after toggling GPS receiver (for precision) as it already knows more or less where you are by cell signal triangulation and/or assigned 4G/WiFi IP address. that's why they are so quick in pinpointing your position even if GPS receiver doesn't really locked on yet.

abin wrote:
shrifty wrote:

My c340 is rather quick when exiting a tunnel, but just to be safe I take note of what I may need to do once I get out. Almost 100% of the time it isn't an issue, just preparing for the small chance I might need to decide quickly.

I think so.
I noticed if my last position when I used GPS is far away from where I am now. For example, fly back from Seattle, it can take relative long time to recalibrate. Not sure if this happens to smartphone if anyone knows.

Traveling through a tunnel is not a problem, my 1490 is quick coming back.

--
Garmin nuvi 2595LMT; Android 5.0 (Samsung GS3)

I disagree

Smartphones give you coarse positions using cell triangulation. And, that can be WAY off from where you are, by miles. Been there, and have seen it happen. It takes the GPS to give you the fine position.

I've never flown with my smartphone yet, but as we all know, after a certain distance, the tables have to be downloaded for the new location.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

not for me.

well, don't be so general about it.

all depends on those little chips used in hardware of smartphone. my phone is actually VERY fast in pinpointing my precise position and it does that 100x faster than my dumb Garmin with outdated everything (don't even get me started on quarterly map updates and old useless built-in POIs).

someone said, that a real problem with smartphone navigation is that you loose sight of map when receiving a call, and that is true and I agree with that, very annoying. however at least I can still hear direction in my bluetooth earpiece, but in fact no more map during a conversation.

I don't understand someone elses price argument against the smartphones ... well you use it anyways and bought it with a data plan, right? navigation doesn't cost you a broken dime over that monthly bill which you pay regardless.

Google Navi app is free and its maps are updated continuously unlike Navteq maps with streets either from 3 months ago or showing the ones that weren't built yet (but will be in 2 months). and the traffic reports on Garmin??? pffft, c'mon don't make me laugh.

Juggernaut wrote:

Smartphones give you coarse positions using cell triangulation. And, that can be WAY off from where you are, by miles. Been there, and have seen it happen. It takes the GPS to give you the fine position.

I've never flown with my smartphone yet, but as we all know, after a certain distance, the tables have to be downloaded for the new location.

--
Garmin nuvi 2595LMT; Android 5.0 (Samsung GS3)

I can explain

feniks wrote:

I don't understand someone elses price argument against the smartphones ... well you use it anyways and bought it with a data plan, right? navigation doesn't cost you a broken dime over that monthly bill which you pay regardless.

I do not have a smart phone or a data plan (or a cell phone). So, by doing the math, it would be way more expensive for me to purchase a smart phone, data plan, than to keep using the c340 I bought 5+ years ago that has no monthly fee.

It costs nothing for me to update, could only guess how expensive it would be to pay for the monthly data plan.

--
Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

Smart phone users...

shrifty wrote:
feniks wrote:

I don't understand someone elses price argument against the smartphones ... well you use it anyways and bought it with a data plan, right? navigation doesn't cost you a broken dime over that monthly bill which you pay regardless.

I do not have a smart phone or a data plan (or a cell phone). So, by doing the math, it would be way more expensive for me to purchase a smart phone, data plan, than to keep using the c340 I bought 5+ years ago that has no monthly fee.

It costs nothing for me to update, could only guess how expensive it would be to pay for the monthly data plan.

Most smart phone zealots here can't get this in their heads. They think everyone has a smartphone and can't think of people like us who don't need one and don't want one and don't want the extra expense of a data plan.
I have a cell phone, but I don't use it that much anymore, I'll probably cancel the account pretty soon. And no. I won't ever pay for a data plan.
My 1300LM has free map updates.

--
Garmin nuvi 1300LM with 4GB SD card Garmin nuvi 200W with 4GB SD card Garmin nuvi 260W with 4GB SD card r.i.p.

.

True, and some of them don't bother to read, when some of us try to tell them factual info. WTF-ever. I deplore boors.

I'll never waste my time to reply to one of these threads again. Ever.

Have your smartphones, folks. Good luck!

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

it depends

feniks wrote:

smartphone GPS find your position pretty instantly after toggling GPS receiver (for precision) as it already knows more or less where you are by cell signal triangulation and/or assigned 4G/WiFi IP address. that's why they are so quick in pinpointing your position even if GPS receiver doesn't really locked on yet.

The method cell phones use for gross position depends on the network. If you are on a CDMA network your position is based on position data transmitted by the network from the closest tower. If you are on GSM, the your position is estimated by triangulation. WiFi has nothing to do with it as not all phones have WiFi. The FCC ruling is cell companies have to be able to give your location to within 300 meters. The fight right now is cell companies have been able to average the accuracy for all callers and now the FCC wants it by phone. This is a HUGE cost for the providers.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

I will always have a smart phone

I resisted getting a blackberry even though my employer would pay because I found the buzzing while I was talking to a co-worker so annoying. Then I learned you can turn the darn buzzing every email off and I got one. The other thing that converted me was the opportunity to tether it while a co-worker drove and clean up email on the way home. Saves HOURS.

My kids use an iphone (daughter) and droid (son). My son travels a lot and pays his bills using his droid. I don't think I will ever get as attached as they are to their phones - neither has a land line - but when I retire I think I will end up with a phone like theirs. You do not have to have one but you don't have to have a cell phone either. If you can afford it, there are more and more nice things you can do with it (weather reports, search for tickets or a place to eat, etc..).

My point is I resisted but now believe I should not have. They can be handy and the only reason I see to resist is economics. If it will strain your budget, then I wouldn't do it. There is nothing they do you can't live without or do another way. But the added expense versus a cell phone seems like a good deal.

I don't know what way vehicle navigation will go but I wish car makers would work harder on integrating what we already have instead of duplicating it in the car. I am not a fan of OnStar and it's equivalents. I don't see why I need a cell phone plan for my car and for my phone. It seems like it shouldn't be that hard to link the car to my phone and use it's plan rather than duplicating it. I also like the approach a few car makers have had of providing a docking place for your GPS in your car. That is what I do with my bimmer now (but it is an accessory from BMW, and was not part of the car originally). I created my own docking point in my Suzuki SUV.

Jim

gotcha

I see. you are right on this one. I forgot some people don't use cells and are not used to paying those monthly bills not to mention cellular data plans smile no offense.

I'm on the other hand one of those people who doesn't own a landline at home instead! smile I only have my mobile cell number smile

... and yeah, I don't have a wrist watch either wink
... as the matter of fact I have no TV at home either hahaha! I watch (or read) what I need on internet.
perhaps it sounds crazy for you guys, but well, we are different smile

... but I see your point of view and that I can agree with. if you need to sign up for a data plan along with minutes plan for a cell phone (which you probably won't use or don't want to use for talking), so you can take advantage of android navigation, then yeah, it seems to be expensive this way.

shrifty wrote:
feniks wrote:

I don't understand someone elses price argument against the smartphones ... well you use it anyways and bought it with a data plan, right? navigation doesn't cost you a broken dime over that monthly bill which you pay regardless.

I do not have a smart phone or a data plan (or a cell phone). So, by doing the math, it would be way more expensive for me to purchase a smart phone, data plan, than to keep using the c340 I bought 5+ years ago that has no monthly fee.

It costs nothing for me to update, could only guess how expensive it would be to pay for the monthly data plan.

--
Garmin nuvi 2595LMT; Android 5.0 (Samsung GS3)

Most, not all

Thanos_of_MW wrote:

Most smart phone zealots here can't get this in their heads. They think everyone has a smartphone and can't think of people like us who don't need one and don't want one and don't want the extra expense of a data plan.

Good thing you said "most". wink

I am willing to lay odds that the most vocal pro-smartphone GPS members cannot understand how a smartphone owner like myself doesn't "get it". What they fail to see is, I DO get it.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

With 4G you can use talk and

With 4G you can use talk and use data at the same time.

Internet only for me

No offense at all, just explaining how it can be expensive to have GPS on a phone. Clearly if you already pay for the phone and data (I'd assume unlimited) then it would make sense to use that as a GPS.

Oddly enough, I don't have a landline either. I do however have a company phone I use for business, and the occasional phone call I may need to make for personal reasons, I don't make enough calls to justify a phone plan of either kind.

I do have Internet access and use it for EVERYTHING, including watching tv shows, talking, etc.....

--
Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

Only problem is in areas

Only problem is in areas that have no cell coverage, some smartphones can't get a position fix, even though they have a built-in GPS ... ie: AGPS (assisted GPS).

The reason they use AGPS is often because of poor GPS antenna design or implementation.

I still prefer a dedicated GPS.

Vehicle GPS

I must agree with nuvic320 and others. We have had Toyota nav systems in a Sienna (2009) and a Prius (2010). Both were purchased because the equipment package to get other options we wanted required getting the nav system.

With the Toyota system, there are a number of drawbacks. We have since traded the Sienna, so I'll concentrate on the Prius.

1. Minor with respect to GPS, but the screen cannot be dimmed enough to not be very distracting at night and it cannot be read under certain sunlight conditions (it does not tilt except to change disks). A 3rd party sun shield cover is made for it but I have heard that it doesn't stay attached very long.
2. Driving instructions are pretty vague. If it wants you to exit off the freeway, it says that some road is ahead... only the "ding" tells you that's where you need to get off. We joke about this... when it says that a road is on the right, we say "so?"
3. Cannot under any circumstances reprogram it while moving... this is a major issue. The passenger cannot change or set the destination if the car is moving. So to change routes, you need to pull over.
4. The voice response system is a joke. It is very slow and severely limited while driving (no help with #3 above). Any error usually results in needing to start over. Similarly, if you are using your cell phone (as a BT device with the system) you cannot use the keypad if you need to enter "1" for English, for example ;-(
5. The maps are regional (stored on several disks in the multiple CD player. If you are looking for a place to stay in Albuquerque while you are in St Louis, tough luck. You need to change regions first. And I don't think that this can be done by voice.

Overall, we find the unit pretty frustrating and nearly useless. If going anywhere but a few blocks down the street, the Garmin is placed on the dash and that's what we use.

I don't think anyone has

I don't think anyone has said that the current crop of in-dash GPS systems are remotely close to perfect. But more and more cars are being released with them and eventually they will become standard equipment in a vehicle, just like the radio and CD player.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

cash cow

Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

I don't think anyone has said that the current crop of in-dash GPS systems are remotely close to perfect. But more and more cars are being released with them and eventually they will become standard equipment in a vehicle, just like the radio and CD player.

in-dash GPS is their cash cow..
a copy of new map DVD can cost as much as $400. You can buy a TomTom GPS for each passenger who rides with you. smile

Starting to think

Next hardware upgrade I might consider converting from Garmin to some sort of an Droid solution. The main reason is the slow response times on the new maps on the state highway level roads.

A few years ago, my Garmin got me lost on a state highway. After the trip, I put in a map report, and it still took 6-9 months to get that spot fixed.

I might go back to the same area, and it looks like more new state highway has been opened up there. I put in a map report at Navteq, but unless the next lifetime map release has a fix, I'll be using Google map printouts in that area.

Google already has the new section state highway and the new name of the old road.

Smartphones and GPS

I think right now the trend in the US is the smartphone is like a "pocketknife" -- where it can do many things at once. But, the one dynamic that I think will be interesting is that in some areas of the country and with some people, a smaller form-factor for the smart phone is more desirable than the so-called larger screen. And it would seem with use cases with those users, it seems more focused on texting and calls with some web-browsing capabilities. Does anyone notice the same thing?

I agree, at best the phone

I agree, at best the phone gps is a good backup. I also have the Copilot series gps and have yet to try it out and compare the difference.

I Agree.

Thanos_of_MW wrote:
shrifty wrote:
feniks wrote:

I don't understand someone elses price argument against the smartphones ... well you use it anyways and bought it with a data plan, right? navigation doesn't cost you a broken dime over that monthly bill which you pay regardless.

I do not have a smart phone or a data plan (or a cell phone). So, by doing the math, it would be way more expensive for me to purchase a smart phone, data plan, than to keep using the c340 I bought 5+ years ago that has no monthly fee.

It costs nothing for me to update, could only guess how expensive it would be to pay for the monthly data plan.

Most smart phone zealots here can't get this in their heads. They think everyone has a smartphone and can't think of people like us who don't need one and don't want one and don't want the extra expense of a data plan.
I have a cell phone, but I don't use it that much anymore, I'll probably cancel the account pretty soon. And no. I won't ever pay for a data plan.
My 1300LM has free map updates.

Guess I am just too old or just old school. I use to have a smartphone and tried to keep up with everything. As I got older, my eyes couldn't read the smartphone. Eventually, I just went back to a phone for calling and receiving phone calls, use my Garmin GPS for navigating but still carry maps because it shows the whole picture. I don't want to be charged with a data plan. This works great for me. Not all of us keep up with technology. Oh, I do however have an ipad that has a nice 10" screen that runs all the apps that the smartphones have.

--
Larry - Nuvi 680, Nuvi 1690, Nuvi 2797LMT
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