Off duty Cop

common sense and common courtesy are oxymorons.

Sorry mate but I think most are saying pay up, so the majority have the vote, so I have to go with the vote.

The first thing I do on every vehicle I drive is add the stick-on convex mirrors to the outside edge of the existing stock side mirrors. They work great, and contrary to what you might think, the adhesive lasts forever, even in rainy/snowy/icy conditions. I've never had to replace a pair, and the pair on one of my cars has been on it for almost 20 years. With these installed, you have absolutely NO blind spots, and you don't have to turn your head around to see if something is beside you before moving over. This makes you safer all around, because your head stays facing forward, making it more likely you will notice if someone in front of you is braking or pulling out in front of you. If you have "blind spots" then you don't have the proper mirrors installed, period, and you have no room to argue if you get in an accident because of it.

Regards,
--Lee

@ Canuk

Everyone has a opinion...

History and everyday FACTS stand and uphold what I have said!

to do so yes in a perfect world...but when changing lanes the duty is on the one changing to make sure the move can be executed safely. Look, my main point is there are two sides to every story and the "editorializing" makes me suspicious.

Sorry about your accident, but lesson learned.
Spullis posted a great idea for mirrors. I started doing that about 5 years ago after a friend suggested the method. It takes about a week to get used to not seeing the side of your car but you do get rid of most blind spots. We drive a Ford Edge and this "turning the mirrors out" has saved my bacon a few times.

This is how is done http://bit.ly/1uIDUU

I have been doing it about 6 months. It does take time to get used to but I still look over my shoulder and all around.

One tip I was taught before changing lanes was SMOG Signals, Mirror, Over-the-shoulder and Go.

What's the acronym?

The way I was taught to adjust mirrors is an "overlap" technique. Basically you ensure that what is on the outside inch of your interior mirror is on the inside inch of your exterior mirror and because each mirror overlaps then there is no blind spot. On every car I've driven this results in the exterior mirror being adjusted so that you don't see the side of the car and the outside inch or so of the mirror covers overtaking/undertaking traffic up pretty close to my peripheral vision, not quite but up to a quick over the shoulder glance.

The advantage over the "stick your head on the window" version is that you know there are no blind spots because you check the overlap between the interior and both exterior mirrors. If you do this while sitting with your head in your usual driving position then that overlap is going to be there when you're actually out on the road.

Thanks for the link This is how is done http://bit.ly/1uIDUU

WOW!!! I read this and came to a realization that there are two kinds of people on this site……..Those that hate cops and will look to twist any situation to make the cop at fault. Then there are the intelligent people who understand that accidents happen and someone is always at fault. In this case fault was admitted and it wasn’t the cop.

And they wonder why the people they're paid to protect hate them.

People who believe cops can do no wrong...

I'm neither a COP hater or lover and your last statement is correct, the OP was at fault but where Detective McGarrett went wrong was when instead of just dialing 911 he proceeded to call the entire Gendarmerie royale du Canada. and pull rank on the civilian, in my book that is abuse of power and waste of Canadian taxpayers money.

In most states a misdemeanor is a "crime" and a ticket/summons/arrest CAN be made even if not committed (allegedly, of course) in the presence of the charging officer.

A traffic infraction or violation is considered a "petty offense" in most states. For these, you are correct that the officer must usually have seen the (alleged) offense committed in his/her presence.

In some states, the officer can rely on the word of another LEO, rather than having personally observed the petty offense. For example, this is how speeding tickets are valid when one officer measures a vehicle's speed, while another officer down the road (who has been radio'd the vehicle description) pulls you over and writes the ticket. The writing officer did not witness the speeding, but rather swears that he/she was "informed by Officer Smith".

NB: Though part Canadian, I do not know whether this holds true in the Great White North, eh.

Toronto has their own rules. I was on vacation with the whole family in the car, when I got pulled over for speeding. I was keeping up with traffic, but I got pulled over, because I had NY plates. With regard to the accident, this sort of thing does not happen in most areas. An off duty cop in NYC is still an off duty cop and fines can't be levied on the spot. If an accident report is made by a cop, yes, it might be prejudiced to his compadre, but that's human nature and I don't fully agree with it. BTW, retired NYC cop for 24 yrs.

There's always three sides to a story. There's his side, the cop's side and then there's the truth. People in the wrong or misunderstood always fudge on their story to make it sound like they did nothing wrong but reality is, they did! Just my two cents worth.

Thanks for the detailed post Jim. I'm a retired officer/sgt from a major midwest city. I agree the OP was just wanting to vent. No shame. Sorry though, there is no such thing as a blind spot. In my jurisdiction, it would have been an illegal lane change ticket vs a careless, but that's preference. You wrinkled up the man's pride and joy. He was a jerk. Everybody has off days. Personally, if it had been me or one of my "pals" a supervisor would have responded to make sure the appropriate ticket was written and that would have been the extent of it. Not a gaggle of them coming over to check it out. I'm guessing there's a lot going on here that wasn't shared.

The most bothersome thing, and I've seen this a lot since my civilianization 7 yrs ago. Who in the world was I getting beat up and broken for? What a bunch of ungrateful/hateful fools! Without a full list, for my 25 yrs, I'm getting both knees replaced & a hip, shoulder surgery, 7 concussions (1 severe enough I was left for dead), memory loss, multiple broken bones, and apparently I've developed a really bad attitude. To think, all those times I thought I was doing something good, often for people who couldn't do for themselves.

Yep, there's a FEW bad cops out there. They would be the FEW you hear about. You see, you never hear about myself of Jim just out there doing our jobs. We view it as SERVING our community. Sometimes that service means physical force, perhaps deadly force. Most often that service means fixing a tire, finding a lost kid, trying to patch up a hopeless marriage, or writing somebody a ticket because THEY broke the law. What it does mean is that NO MATTER WHAT THE CALL, failure is not an option. How many of you NEVER have the option of backing out? How many of you show up to work every day despite seeing the people you work for ridicule and berate you? I'm guessing Jim.

I'm amazed at how many people rejoice when something happens to "the man". 7 yrs in "civilian" life where people don't know my history has given me a lot of insight into the attitudes of average people. I expected it from a certain element, but not from seemingly everyone. GROW UP PEOPLE! My son and his beautiful wife just bought a home in a neighborhood that 25 yrs ago was filled with drug dealers and prostitutes. In fact I was shot a block away. Do you think that neighborhood would have been revived without these lying, crooked cops you all hate so much? I see it as an amazing success, but I'll tell you along the way a LOT of people thought the cops were overzealous.

I'm so glad I didn't know most of you people before. Not sure I would have bothered. Of course, my body might have felt better.

The officer only needs "probable cause" to write a ticket. He doesn't need to see the offense. The crunched up car and physical evidence supplies the probably cause. AND, a cop DID see it!

It's not a USA thing, it's a state thing. In my state, large city cops can write tickets on probably cause. Smaller ones have to be present, but they can still write the ticket on the complaint of the other driver.

You really need to find a new profession. Lawyering isn't for you.

Cops are often criticized for having the attitude that there are "cops and everyone else". Being critical of the attitude doesn't make it untrue.

Foghorn is right. This was an accident caused by an illegal lane change. Not carelessness at all... All those tips about mirrors are nice but they do not apply when pulling a trailer. It is imperative to see the trailer in the mirrors.

From a lot of these posts it might be suggested that the next time anyone needs help some people would be happier calling a "gang-banger!"

What a constructive suggestion... I guess the pro-LEO types can't take a lick of criticism.

Come on I don't hate cops, I have some good friends who are cops, they would try to get off if they got a ticket, if there's reasonable doubt then you will get off, and its worth a try, don't go raising all hell, but be nice, respectful and you just might get off, they can say one of to things --- yes or no

The best is when someone cuts you off and they have a bumper sticker that says "Choose Civility".

That's rich.

Such encounters are never a pleasant experience.

I'm sure something will happen to that cop that he can't lash out at anyone for sooner or later. Accidents happen as frustrating as they might be.

Thanks to all who got me through with advise and some laughs.

Here is an update: I went to court on this charge of "Careless Driving" and paid a Lawyer $500.00 to represent me. Within 5 minutes the charge was "DISMISSED" Holy Cow!!! I had many sleepless nights and had visions of my insurance going up 100% for the next five years.

Life is good again.

Great

Good to hear you got the charges dropped. What state did this happen in by the way?

Was there a specific reason the charge was dropped (officer was a no show, unsubstantiated claim, lack of evidence)? BTW -- that's great news. I am very happy for you.

They said evidence did not support the charge. I was told that it is a very common charge laid by the police these days as most people just pay the ticket and try to forget about it and it looks good on their report at the end of a shift.

This happened in Ontario Canada but I am sure it happens in other places as well.

Cheers

cop is also human being. people are not perfect, so, mistake could be made occasionally.

Could the guy have slowed down to let you in? You were issued a ticket to make it clear that the accident was your fault. You must have kept your cool or you would have been DWI tested or arrested for some other made up violation. Cops take care of their own. Pay the fine and move on.

As a former LEO, (US Military, City, and State,) I will agree with Jim 1348. When I worked with the City, if one of our officers was involved in a traffic accident, the Ohio State Patrol was called in to investigate the accident. When I worked with the state, a supervisor was called to investigate. These guys don't pull any punches; if the officer is guilty, they are the ones getting cited. From what alrom45 has stated, it seems that two violations were evident. First, the police officer was quilty of passing on the right, usually a violation no matter what state you are in. Secondly, it seems that there was a lane violation on alrom45's part. Does one outweigh the other? Or does one nullify the other?That is something for the courts to determine. The only thing I know is that if I am in an accident with a police officer, I will ask that another department investigate the accident.

It is a violation to drive in the left, and acceptable to pass on the right if they do not move over. Not completely certain of this.

Alrom45 has a legit issue with:

1. The excessive police presence and wasting of tax payer money ("His desk Sergent came out to the scene along with two more officers.")

2. The private access the off duty cop got to the police ("is an off duty cop and proceeded to call his buddy at the police dept.")

3. Keeping alrom45 waiting while the off duty cop and his buddies catch up as well as the obvious bias and favoritism they showed ("They spoke to me about 5 minutes and to him about 35-40 minutes, laughing and joking like good old boys.")

4. The failure to investigage the danger this gun carrying, hot headed, off duty cop poses in accident situations ("No real damage done but you would think the world had come to an end. The guy jumps out of his car screaming I am a dangerous driver")

The damage was less that $500 and could have been handled via an exchange of insurance. As for the police response, only one cop car was needed and they could have handed alrom45 the $400 ticket within ten-twenty minutes of arriving and let him get on his way.

In the end, seems the out come was correct and alrom45 was lucky to only receive a ticket.

calling his cop buddies and yelling about such a common traffic incident says more about him and his lack of professionalism than anything. I would say the guy needs to grow up. it was your fault no doubt, but that doesn't mean the guy has a right to be a dick about.

here is a related story, I remember a cop pulling me over after he claimed I ran a red light. I told him it was yellow and I that I would have cleared the intersection before it turned red if the cars in front of me didn't suddenly stop and block the intersection. I told him I knew he saw the car in front of me stop and block me so I'm not at fault. he looked at me like I can't believe your talking back to me like this. guess he expected me to say sorry (even though I didn't do anything wrong) and kiss his ahhss just because he is a cop. when he realized that wasn't gonna happen he scowled at me and walked back to his car without writing a ticket.

not suggesting others do what I did, its probably best to be polite and hope for mercy since the cop has alot of power. but I gotta say, it did feel great to stand up for myself when I knew I was in the right.

All's well that ends well!

Because cops are vested with extraordinary powers (not available to standard human beings) they should be held to a higher standard than "human beings".

Could be the reason why the 'cop' called in and the other officers plus the supervisor responded - after all, they must be held to a 'higher standard'! What could be perceived by some as an abuse of power might just be standard operating procedure for that police department when an officer (whether on duty or off) is involved in any kind of motor vehicle incident.

That sucks But Depending on the state this happened in, you can fight the ticket. I know in most states you have to stay on the right and pass on the left, if this is the case you can actually get your ticket dismissed, and maybe have the court issue a ticket against the off duty police officer. That would be sweet justice

Good Luck.

Huh?

Just being right is all that matters, even if it does not fare well for us; Gadget Guy has the right attitude;
We have to learn as a society that when we are wrong to take the blame and not to lay it at the doorstep of culture or race or gender; Right should be right and wrong should always be wrong!!!!