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Taxing Mileage to raise Revenue ??????

 
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Who said...

....I will not raise taxes on the middle class?

In order to fund infrastructure

In order to fund infrastructure, perhaps we ought to make large reductions in the military industrial complex and redirect those funds to the country's infrastructure including a new electrical grid. We already spend too much on defense.

How about

having the members of Congress pay their taxes (read airplane)? Property taxes (read Sec of Treasury)? Boat taxes (read John Kerry). Maybe if we investigated all politicians across the country we could really fill up the coffers! Hmmmm

Regards,

Norm

--
Garmin Nuvi 650, Garmin eTrexLegend, Magellan 360

Brain Dead Politicians

Don't the stupid politicians realize we are already taxed on how much we drive? We pay a tax for every gallon of gas we purchase. Yeah they know it, they just don't care. It is the American peoples tax and the American politicians money.

Sound Policy

While there might be valid questions about how they gather the data and exactly what they monitor and how long they keep it etc. But the policy itself, is simply user pays, drive more pay more, drive less pay less, seems fair enough to me.

The article covers that

If you look at the article it says that this is a bi-product of more fuel efficient, hybrid and electric cars. These cars use less gas so less revenue.

I don't see this ever happening, the infrastructure cost would takes years for a ROI.

It's been around before

California lawmakers suggested the same thing several years ago and for the same reasons. More fuel efficient cars and less driving meant less revenue. The plan there was to check mileage during smog checks (every 2 years) and base vehicle registration fees on the result. Even in the nearly bankrupt Golden State the idea never gained much traction.

Cheers wink

--
Nuvi 760 & 660, Streetpilot, GPS III, GPS 10X

As a hybrid owner I respectfully disagree

Drive more efficiently, pay LESS. All the over macho types who need to drive a larger vehicle SHOULD incur more cost.

--
Nuvi 760 Nuvi 2598 LMT Garmin Streetpilot Onboard for iPhone

Taxing Mileage

That would lower the price of gas,by people driving less.

Gas tax

We all know that when we fill up a LOT of local state and federal taxes are added which is supposed to go to roads etc. In other words the more you drive the more gas you use and hence the more taxes you pay. Still, some replying to this thread don't seem to understand that and want to tax even more for those that may have a different lifestyle or need a different vehicle than THEY wish we all had to have. Ugh!

--
If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else. - Yogi Berra

,

This concept is nothing new.

The state of Oregon is trialling a GPS-based tracking system with 300 drivers in order to offset falling gas tax revenues.

Their problem started when they cranked up gas taxes to offset increasingly efficient cars' reduced needs for fuel, coupled with the fact that people were driving less.

That prompted much of the state to seek relief by purchasing their gasoline from neighboring states where gas prices were significantly lower, resulting in further reduction in revenue from fuel sales.

But the bureaucrats reasoned that you couldn't possibly avoid filling up in-state FOREVER.

And so some genius came up with the idea for a tracker that would add up the miles you drive in-state and would communicate with the gas pump when you went to fill up - and your 3 gallon top-up might then be accompanied by a charge for the 3,000 miles you drove in state - think of it as paying about $150 a gallon ON TOP of the taxes in the neighboring state!

The City of Montreal has been assessing the Oregon experiment and believes that they can generate about $270 million a year in 'extra revenue' - which would almost certainly need to be offset by a direct reduction in the really ridiculous amount of local taxes added to each and every drop of gas purchased in the region which is almost literally flushed down the toilet.

Then again, consider the cost for setting up and maintaining the infrastructure - it will almost certainly cost more to create and operate this behemoth than it will take in.

So, this isn't anything new - but it IS the first time I know of that that the Federal government has considered getting into the game of metered driving.

I suppose that it will become a fact of life - as will little metal caps intended to cover the antenna to block the GPS signals that that will likely have to be part of the system.

--
Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

Perhaps We'll See

Perhaps we'll see another American Revolution with the politicians, in their inexhaustible effort to take in more revenue.

It's about time to send a message to government at all levels that they can't take everything we've got to give away to others.

They need to have a balanced budget EVERY year. They shouldn't be able to spend beyond OUR means.

Sorry about the rant.
Fred

I understand

cagpsfan wrote:

As a hybrid owner I respectfully disagree

Drive more efficiently, pay LESS. All the over macho types who need to drive a larger vehicle SHOULD incur more cost.

and agree in principle.

What would be the best way to allocate the costs of infrastructure? That is the question. First, I would think that everyone needs to contribute something even if they do not drive. This is because everyone relies in some way on the roads/bridges/etc for things that they take advantage of.

Next, those who cause the most wear and tear on the infrastructure should pay in proportion to the damage they do. Larger (or perhaps it should be heavier) vehicles should pay more.

Well you see where I am going, I hope. It is not always possible for to allocate costs in the most appropriate way because the data is not available.

Wasted money

While watching the news tonight, they had a article about the navy firing Cruise missles in Lybia that cost US about $258 million. That was in just one day!
And they want to tax us on how we drive. There was also a story on GE, they pay hardly any tax as (they lost money with the bank problems) unlike the rest of us.
They said the rest of their income comes from overseas investments. They cut jobs here and hire outside the country. Why doesn't the government worry about things like that?
Instead of trying to think up ways to get more money out of us.

--
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things!

If this ever comes to pass

...that bozo mayor in Miami will be just the first of many to get the boot out of office, and rightly so.

GC

--
Nuvi 350, GPS Map 76CX

ROI-? to Congressional idiots

The problem is they are not thinking about making a profit, return-on-investment or the like. They're thinking about power, therefore tax us to the extreme and control us until the end...

--
JD

If they want to raise revinue

then they should do something drastic to entice/force companies to bring jobs back to our country and give those jobs to Americans.

IMO, the drastic loss of jobs in this country is the root cause of all of our economic problems.

--
Expect nothing!, appreciate benignity!

.

Yep. What ever happened to the 'Made in America', and 'Made in Canada' campaigns?

Oh yea, it was globalization. We can't truly afford to buy our own products anymore.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

I think the failure

Kwibbly wrote:

If they want to raise revinue
then they should do something drastic to entice/force companies to bring jobs back to our country and give those jobs to Americans.

IMO, the drastic loss of jobs in this country is the root cause of all of our economic problems.

I think the failure stems from the arrogance of Americans. We think we have the "best" of everything and refuse to learn from others. For example, Canada has a much better regulatory system for its financial institutions and was not hurt so severely by the financial meltdown that toppled the rest of the world. Yet, we refuse to take lessons from what Canada has been successful with. Oh by the way, do you know where the US gets most of its oil?

We refuse to admit that our educational system has failed us. It is easy to see why many white collar jobs have been outsourced to India - they are better educated (although I hate to talk to their call centers because i cannot understand them).

We have let our infrastructure (once the envy of the world) fall into disrepair.

If I am reading this right, we don't want the government raising revenue but we want them to force/entice companies to bring back jobs. How does a government "entice" companies except by transferring wealth to them? Where will it come from?

.

How much wealth do companies need? Most of the wealth goes to shareholders. Companies these days should consider themselves fortunate just to keep the doors open in this climate.

Sadly, North Americans do not look at taking care of their own any longer. It's all about the buck.

God help us all if anything like the Japan, Chile, or Haiti disaster hits this continent. The Titanic WILL sink again.

And you better have weapons...

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Taxing Mileage to raise Revenue

How about having GE pay it's taxes. They have so many ex IRS, ex Treasury people on their payroll they pay NO Taxes.

i dont really see how this

i dont really see how this would work

AGREED

FZbar wrote:

Perhaps we'll see another American Revolution with the politicians, in their inexhaustible effort to take in more revenue.

It's about time to send a message to government at all levels that they can't take everything we've got to give away to others.

They need to have a balanced budget EVERY year. They shouldn't be able to spend beyond OUR means.

Sorry about the rant.
Fred

TOTALLY AGRRED!!!!!!!!

--
Garmin Nuvi 255W

taxes

Even people who don't drive would be hurt by this tax. It would increase prices for products because of increased cost of transporting goods. The companies would most likely just increase their prices to make up for the taxes they are paying. That's not something we need when we want people to be spending to boost the economy.

additional things to ponder

reading this thread, I have a couple of other things to consider
1. they are considering if they haven't done it already is renaming the Highway Trust Fund to the Transportation Trust Fund.

2. one of the taxpayers sites, did a tally of how much government collects from the gas sales tax, in excess of 1 Trillion dollars that's right 1 Trillion with a T dollars.

3. if you're unlucky or lucky(some people might) to live in the northeast most of your major interstates are toll(by the way if you research it you will find the bonds to build the roads have long been paid off), so it this passes you will be paying 3 times(toll, gas tax, and mileage tax)

4. how far behind will the insurance companies be to use this to increase your rates(a car rental company already tried this)

And roads still bad

3. if you're unlucky or lucky(some people might) to live in the northeast most of your major interstates are toll(by the way if you research it you will find the bonds to build the roads have long been paid off), so it this passes you will be paying 3 times(toll, gas tax, and mileage tax)

And the roads up in the Northeast are still in horrible shape even though they collect "tolls" to repair them.

--
Nuvi 650 and 1350.

wasn't alway

pwohlrab wrote:

3. if you're unlucky or lucky(some people might) to live in the northeast most of your major interstates are toll(by the way if you research it you will find the bonds to build the roads have long been paid off), so it this passes you will be paying 3 times(toll, gas tax, and mileage tax)

And the roads up in the Northeast are still in horrible shape even though they collect "tolls" to repair them.

that way, the NYS Thruway was one of the best maintained roads, in the winter the plows were out as it was snowing, long before any other roads. The toll ways are cash cows to the politicians

why stop there?

Why Stop there? My GPS already tells me the speed limit for many roads I drive on so why not incorporate that into the "tax" monitor and automatically fine me each time I go over the speed limit on roads I travel. Each year I could increase the mortgage on my house to cover the amount. Why, in ten years they can have my house, car, first born, and wife while I enjoy the generous welfare payments I will then be entitled to.

I love socialism!!!!

--
Wanted -Woman with GPS -send picture of GPS

Amen

Amen, and well said brother. They don't get it and never will and I'm beginning to think that people out here don't get it either because we keep electing these people.

The stupid it burns

I don't know where they get these crazy ideas that those who use the roads should, one way or another, pay for them. Stupider still is suggesting those who use them more should pay more. This idea of direct responsibility -- having those who use roads pay for their cost -- is clearly the apex of anti-American socialism.

You know what will get more and better roads? Tax cuts! There is no problem that can't be solved by cutting taxes.

The stupid it burns

...adding, the gas tax already approximates a mileage tax. There's no need for a new, complex scheme. If more money is needed for roads just raise the tax a few cents. Gas prices rise and fall a few cents all the time -- the real impact of a gas tax hike would be negligible.

Don't believe it for a second

These people want to put GPS monitoring in your cars (at your expense). Clearly this is a huge invasion of personal privacy. If it was really about mileage they could do it simply by an odometer check. And they already have a tax that charges you by the mile, both federal and state taxes on fuel. Those who drive more pay more. And a side effect on the fuel taxes is that those who drive bigger, less fuel efficient vehicles that cause more road wear also pay more since they get poorer mileage. The fuel tax even promotes cleaner alternate technologies like hybrids and electric cars (although the mpg on hybrids isn't much better than gasoline cars, considering their higher costs, particular battery replacement).

Rather than give huge tax incentives to buy questionably efficient cars and then claim there is a "need" for more revenue and thus the need to track everyone's car, they could do much better by focusing on the taxes they already have and actually spending some of that to fix the roads the taxes were intended to maintain.

Could Be Interesting

Frovingslosh wrote:

These people want to put GPS monitoring in your cars (at your expense).

(sarcasm)
Let them go and do it. The joke is on them. The FCC is all but certain to give final approval for LightSquared to roll out their service adjacent to the GPS L1 frequencies sometime this June. Net result will be jamming any government mandated GPS receiver you have installed while using it in an urban or suburban area (rural areas will not be effected).

It would be rather ironic to have a mandated GPS tracker installed under government direction only to have another branch of the government approve a service that essentially jams it. Oh the irony...
(/sarcasm)

--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

i doubt the FCC will approve

i doubt the FCC will approve any service which jams GPS. and they can always use cell trackers instead of GPS. its a bad idea and should be killed rather than assuming it will die due to GPS interference.

--
GPS Models : 60CSX w/2GB Kingston (stolen), 32GB Samsung INNOV8 with Garmin Mobile XT(8GB), NUVI 760 w/16GB PSF16GSDHC6 (DIED in 30 days), V (died), Nokia N8 with Garmin Mobile XT(48GB), Blackberry Torch with Google Maps.

i doubt the FCC will approve

i doubt the FCC will approve any service which jams GPS. and they can always use cell trackers instead of GPS. its a bad idea and should be killed rather than assuming it will die due to GPS interference.

--
GPS Models : 60CSX w/2GB Kingston (stolen), 32GB Samsung INNOV8 with Garmin Mobile XT(8GB), NUVI 760 w/16GB PSF16GSDHC6 (DIED in 30 days), V (died), Nokia N8 with Garmin Mobile XT(48GB), Blackberry Torch with Google Maps.

Yeah, right!

Yeah, right!

--
76 csx & Nuvi 1490t

Taxing driving

God bless the government! Create a problem and then tax the solution,
They tell us to save gas by using public transportation, and then make it impossible to use it.
Outside of any major city where do the buses and trains run around the clock or if it does how far apart does it run?
And then they use the tax on gas to supplement public transportation.
In NY the Long Island RR raised the price of tickets and then cut trains to save the money they will make on the price raise.
It's a good thing we are all too stupid to figure out the logic in this.

--
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things!

Wow

jgermann wrote:

In order to fund infrastructure, perhaps we ought to make large reductions in the military industrial complex and redirect those funds to the country's infrastructure including a new electrical grid. We already spend too much on defense.

Wow! Something transportation-related that jgermann & I agree on!! What are the odds of that happening again?? razz

Spot-On!

--
It's about the Line- If a line can be drawn between the powers granted and the rights retained, it would seem to be the same thing, whether the latter be secured by declaring that they shall not be abridged, or that the former shall not be extended.

What a Great Idea - A Consumption Tax!

Here we go. Another reason for a flat tax. No deduction flat tax on consumption! It's the only fair way to do it. But it will never happen because the big consumers (Big Money) will never pay their fair share!

Although I like/want a flat tax

We do not need more taxes, we need to cut spending! Give them more taxes and they will just buy more votes with all the free giveaway programs otherwise known as Obamma money now!

--
Cain versus Unable 2012

Reply to JD4x4

JD4x4 wrote:

Wow! Something transportation-related that jgermann & I agree on!! What are the odds of that happening again?? razz

Spot-On!

JD4x4, I would hope that we are have agreed in the past on the statistics from the various articles that are discussed.

I do realize that we seem to differ on the interpretation of the statistics.

;-)

jgermann wrote:

JD4x4, I would hope that we are have agreed in the past on the statistics from the various articles that are discussed.

I do realize that we seem to differ on the interpretation of the statistics.

We have, indeed. It just doesn't seem like it on the surface. That's why I used the razz
mrgreen

--
It's about the Line- If a line can be drawn between the powers granted and the rights retained, it would seem to be the same thing, whether the latter be secured by declaring that they shall not be abridged, or that the former shall not be extended.

Thanks

JD4x4 wrote:

We have, indeed. It just doesn't seem like it on the surface. That's why I used the razz
mrgreen

My only excuse is that things are not going particularly smooth for me. I am involved in the probate of three estates (one of them involving a 40 year daughter), and none of which is proceeding well.

I just failed to interpret the smilely face correctly. My appologies.

Scamming The System..!

bramfrank wrote:

"I suppose that it will become a fact of life - as will little metal caps intended to cover the antenna to block the GPS signals that that will likely have to be part of the system."

I was thinking the same thing. Put the antenna cap on.. pump gas.. take antenna cap off.. continue driving!

What? Are they (Gov.), going to have a "antenna cap inspector" standing around at every gas station to insure you don't do it? I don't think so.. so how are they (Gov.) going to stop people from scamming the system?

Nuvi1300WTGPS

--
I'm not really lost.... just temporarily misplaced!

Oh taxes

More taxes, yawn, sunrise, sunset. Governments always generate revenue through taxation to spend in ways that those in power consider worthwhile while many others will consider wasteful, inappropriate, or even immoral.

It sucks, but in the end I'd rather be happier in life and worrying about yet another tax won't help me to stay happy.

Just do what you feel you should be doing, either complying with the government taxation schemes or resisting however you feel appropriate. As far as I'm concerned it is your prerogative. Just be aware that whatever your choice may be that others will disagree with you.

When a politician says they

When a politician says they will not raise taxes on the middle class, you have to understand what that means. That is, they will not raise INCOME tax on the middle class for at least the first year. Other taxes and after the first year are gifts if they do not raise them. To me, their rhetoric is meaningless, since they will get our money one way or another. The middle class will always carry the burden, it's where the money is.

could not find more recent data although it must be there

2001 data
Total family income by quintile
------%----UpperBound
Q1 4.2 -- $24,960
Q2 9.7 -- $42,772
Q3 15.4 -- $65,000
Q4 22.9 -- $97,916
Q5 47.7 -- unlimited

Assuming that the percentages have not changed much and what you consider middle class, seems to me that most of the income is made by the top 20% (note that sum of percents is 99.9)

This particular article said:
"The distribution of pretax income in the United States today is highly unequal. The most careful studies suggest that the top 10 percent of households, with average income of about $200,000, received 42 percent of all pretax money income in the late 1990s. The top 1 percent of households, averaging $800,000 of income, received 15 percent of all pretax money income"

TheProf wrote: See link.

TheProf wrote:

See link. Unbelieveable !!!!!

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/151765-cbo-says-taxing-drivers-based-on-miles-driven-a-real-option-for-raising-revenues

isnt that what the freaking crazy federal gasoline taxis for? so they're gonna now tax us when we BUY fuel...then whjen we use it?

blah

jgermann wrote:

In order to fund infrastructure, perhaps we ought to make large reductions in the military industrial complex and redirect those funds to the country's infrastructure including a new electrical grid. We already spend too much on defense.

Our infrastructure is fine smile we really dont need to be spending more money on it

blah

jgermann wrote:

2001 data
Total family income by quintile
------%----UpperBound
Q1 4.2 -- $24,960
Q2 9.7 -- $42,772
Q3 15.4 -- $65,000
Q4 22.9 -- $97,916
Q5 47.7 -- unlimited

Assuming that the percentages have not changed much and what you consider middle class, seems to me that most of the income is made by the top 20% (note that sum of percents is 99.9)

This particular article said:
"The distribution of pretax income in the United States today is highly unequal. The most careful studies suggest that the top 10 percent of households, with average income of about $200,000, received 42 percent of all pretax money income in the late 1990s. The top 1 percent of households, averaging $800,000 of income, received 15 percent of all pretax money income"

Sadly - the tax distribution is even MORE unequal.that 42% of income payu about 68% of the income taxes. Of course -that doesnt stop people from screaming that the rich arent paying their fair share...

blah

mourton wrote:

While there might be valid questions about how they gather the data and exactly what they monitor and how long they keep it etc. But the policy itself, is simply user pays, drive more pay more, drive less pay less, seems fair enough to me.

Yes - agreed - but thats what the federal and state taxes on Fuel are for. Why add a 2nd layer of taxes on it? Gas taxes not only get you to pay on how much you drive, but how efficient your vehicle is. Our tax system is overly complex as it is....no need to add more layers to it

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