Nassau County, NY admitting that Red Light Cameras used to shrink defecit

Yep it is a good revenue generator.

Just another tax.

Better than raising my taxes - you run a red light, you pay a fine.

Mangano's announcement comes several weeks after they discontinued making camera locations public on the website or with signs. They are going for the money - it is little about safety.

The same announcement was made in neighboring Suffolk County a couple of weeks ago, but legislators are arguing whether the expected revenue is overly optimistic.

When each county ramps up to the permitted 50 red light cameras, it will be interesting to see whether revenue drops as people learn where they are and avoid them. Right now they are being caught flatfooted.

dobs108

Sounds like two bad assumptions to me.
-The need to raise taxes
-Every one of the fines are justified

I don't buy either, but that's how we get stuck with poor, but easy 'solutions'.

Sorry, but there are far better ways to ensure government has sufficient cash flow than to tax the proletariat to death. Cutting down the size of the government is a good place to start.

[sarcasm]Red Light Cameras - It's Fantastic!
--Unidentified Nassau County Government Worker[/sarcasm]

In my city, I am upset that services have been cut and the schools do not have enough funds and we do not have enough police officers.

In your city or municipality, what are some of the things you would cut?

GOVERNMENT!!!

Fred

Schools.
When the school officials are paid quarter mil a year and teachers are getting substantial raises in this economy, I don't buy the argument that the districts are underfunded.

Police officers.
When they can afford to take officers off patrol to covertly park on the side of the road, waiting and hoping for unsuspecting speeders to come by, I don't buy the argument that they are understaffed.

When the government entities around here start to show the willingness to "share the pain" that they demand of their constituents, maybe I'd reconsider.

First you complain about getting a ticket from an automated device and say you want to be ticketed by a police officer. When you see, or hear of one beside the road doing just that you say he should be out patrolling. Do you really care what the police officer is doing as long as he isn't stopping you from speeding or breaking traffic laws?

spider_elliott, you titled your reply

and then quoted my question

and then proceeded to disagree with the problems that I see in my city because of budget cuts.

Now, I have no problem with your statements because I am not in a position to know your city. However, you failed to respond with what you would cut.

The sad thing about this is that we WILL be taxed even moreso, because within the next 10 years or so, Fire Service will be paid as well for all of the county. It is only a matter of time. It is so hard for people to just volunteer. Many people just do not have the time. Not to mention that the training that volunteer firefighters get is only the bare minimum to meet NY State codes and regulations of what a Class A firefighter needs. Unlike what is done in the City where the firefighters are probably the best trained in the world.

I'll try to explain.

When I say to cut down on the size of the government, I mean eliminating superfluous administrative personnel. I don't mean the elimination or reduction of essential services. Schools are an essential service. Police and fire are essential services, though you will NEVER get enough police officers to fill those positions. Other things? Your definition of essential will differ from mine.

The point is that you're complaining about services being cut and insufficient funds for schools, yet cannot see that its your government that has cut the services and cut the funds for the schools so they can give themselves larger and larger pay raises to allow them to live high on the hog, while us ordinary schleps go about our daily routines losing 25% or more of each paycheck per week to fund a government that's totally out of control.

So, you asked me what I would cut? I'd cut the fat out of the government, because 75% of those jokers are totally unnecessary. I'd also decriminalize what are now minor offenses so the police can actually focus on the 10% of the population outside of the government that cause 90% of the problems.

Everybody seems to think that more and more regulation of our lives is a sure-fire cure, when in fact it's killing this country.

Thank you for the reply.

I also am opposed to "fat" in municipal salaries, but as far as I can tell, our city does not have such "fat" in its salaries. Most of the time, when positions are filled here, the paper reports the salaries - which are public records available to reporters.

I realize that there have been some recent startling revelations about cities in California where officials were paying themselves exorbitant salaries - the media liked to characterize the salaries as multiple times what the President of the United States is paid. However, that does not (necessarily) mean that the same situation is true in cities and states across the country.

My goal - so to speak - was to challenge people, yourself included, to think about the connections they were making. Perhaps someone does not like red-light cameras. How might they incite their neighbors to oppose them too? Well, they might say that cameras are nothing but a revenue grab so that city officials can give themselves raises in salary. To another person who does not fact check, it might seem like the person making the statement knew some facts and that under-the-table raises had indeed been given. Then the report spreads and soon becomes the "truth" because enough people have said it. I do not mean that you have done any of this, but your statements make it seems like you are of the mind that salaries in your municipality are somehow excessive.

I, from time to time, try to insert a few questions that might shine a light on some un-fact-checked comments. In this case it had to do with cameras being nothing but a money grab. Therefore, government should forced be cut back rather continue a revenue source that is opposed by people who run red lights. OK, fair enough so far - take away the camera revenue source. What services would such an opponent cut?

Amazing how this topic always ends up as a big government complaint fest? I have several issues with the cameras. If they're properly managed and used solely to fine those who blow lights and stop signs? Great! Unfortunately, they seem to always end up as a revenue source, which is where we go off the rails. Eventually, to increase revenue the light timing and grace periods get tweaked and this is really BAD negating the safety aspect entirely. There's also the argument that they're a tax unfairly targeted at the middle class who drive their own vehicles but that leads us back to the big government thing again.

Your general logic of how the "big government complaint" proceeds is fair.

However, you make the statement quoted as if it is fact. In previous threads, I have challanged posters to come up with links to support statements about "tweaking" light timings and grace periods. There has been only one instance where I agreed that it appeared to be a revenue grab.

Since your inference is that "tweaking" means changes solely to generate more revenue, rather than a change to provide for better safety by increasing the timings, I am wondering if you have seen anything of recent investigations that support such an inference.

I cannot personally confirm this, but a friend was telling me yesterday that he noticed that the signs in Oceanside that warned of red light cameras have also been removed.

Money was spent to put them up (in accordance with initial plans) and if this observation is true, money was spent to take them away.

Would such signs not act as a potential deterent to someone willing to run a red light? If so, then keeping them there might lend to increased safety, but alas they may be gone...like the public list of red light camera locations!

I'm retired but work part-time as a School Crossing Guard in Suffolk CO. I will be walking with the kids across the cross walk and cars still don't stop for the Red Lights or us.

At this point, I don't care if its for the money, need for these Ass Drivers to pay for their lack of driving skills.

Everyone is just has to beat the light to get to the next Red Light.

I was over at New Hyde Park Road and Marcus Avenue on Friday and there are no warning signs there. So much for "safety" as they do not actually want people to obey the law and the disappearance of the web site is additional proof of that. Luckily there are enough observers around to maintain independent lists.

I noticed that my Nuvi did not warn me about the camera while approaching the intersection driving South. It does go off when I approach it driving East. I have to look at the exact location of the POI to see if it may not be intersecting North/South routes.

My thought on this is very simple: the government no longer exists to serve in the best interests of the governed, but only serves the best interests of the politicians that make it up. Therefore, government will do absolutely whatever it desires to maintain the existing status quo. This includes dreaming up new ways of increasing the amount of revenue pouring into government coffers at our expense.

Therefore, the only viable solution is to replace the government. How many people though are willing to stand up and say, "no more"?

As to services to cut, I can't answer that without knowing what services are available. Besides, to me it doesn't matter because the green pieces of paper we shuffle around to fund all these services aren't real money anyway. With fiat currency, the moment the first bill is printed the government owes more than what is available.

Silver and gold have intrinsic value, and should be the only currency we need. The Federal Reserve, which despite the name is a privately owned concern, wouldn't like that however.

And since something must be in place to provide the services a municipality provides (including fire and police protection), what would that something be in your mind?

Government by the people for the people, as intended in the Constitution. Government positions as envisioned by the founding fathers were never intended to be a "job" where you got paid for it. So...eliminate the career politicians, which would include virtually everyone in government everywhere, and have new elections where the candidates are average people like you and me, and ONLY average people like you and me.

Of course, I'm not adverse to following Thomas Jefferson's advice, and have a revolution to clear out all those career politicians.

Very interesting idea. For municipal governments, that is what I though was happening now - average people who run for City Council and School Boards.

Agree that the Federal government is usually staffed by career politicians.

You do realize that, if we follow the founding father's ideas, then all women and African Americans would be excluded. Is that what you are suggesting?

Certainly there are cameras at New Hyde Park Road and Marcus Avenue eastbound, westbound, and southbound. I walked the area in July and the POIs seemed okay then. Only 100 feet south of this intersection is New Hyde Park Road and Union Turnpike, where there are eastbound and southbound cameras. This complex intersection is big enough for more than one POI. We might need to tweak the locations of both POIs. Also, another visit may be needed to find out if any more equipment was installed. Any changes will be reported to Miss Poi.

dobs108

The red light camera signs were also removed from the intersection at Lakeville Drive and Union Turnpike. This makes no sense why they would put the signs up and then take them down.

OMG

I thought the part you quoted from me said it all. Average people like you and me. Now it's implied, by you, that I am both sexist and racist because I believe going back to what the founding fathers intended is the right thing to do.

*shrugs*...you think what you want.

I apploogize for any implication about you personally. My assumption was only that you are like quite a number of people for whom the "founding fathers" sound bite is useful for throwing the other party to the debate off stride. I feel that most of such people are neither sexist or racist.

So, when people invoke the “founding fathers” or the “framers of the constitution”, I have to ask exactly what they mean. Were those people so wise that what they instituted several hundred years ago should never be altered?

Consider this:
In 1865, the 13th Amendment to the Constitution abolished slavery.

In 1868, the 14th Amendment to the Constitution grants citizenship to blacks.

In 1868, the 15th Amendment to the Constitution gives black men the right to vote.

In 1920, the 19th Amendment to the Constitution gives women the right to vote.

Then consider this:
In 1954, the Supreme Court declares school segregation unconstitutional

In 1965, the Supreme Court strikes down laws banning contraception

In 1971, the Supreme Court bans sex discrimination in hiring

Looking over the above, one can ask of those founding fathers “What were they thinking?”.

Given these facts, I hope you will not use the "founding fathers" statement without realizing that when people who really do know the facts continue to use that 'sound bite", they really are being sexist and racist.

As I mentioned in my PM, the cameras are there but the Nuvi seems to have a problem issuing notifications when driving south on New Hyde Park Road. When I am driving East on Marcus Avenue, it does go off. I think the POI is not intersecting the route of travel southbound so it doesn't alert. The RLC did in fact flash while I was waiting at the intersection. I looked around to see who might have tripped it but there was too much traffic.

The solution will be in next week's update to the RLC file.

dobs108

Looking forward to it!

Rob