Red Light Cameras...Editorial

 

Here is an editorial article that appeared in the Seattle Times today.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2012181711_bru...

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Bobby....Garmin 2450LM

refusal

Quote:

It has also angered the public, which refused to pay 70 percent of the tickets.

Its good to read that more people are learning that its not always necessary to pay the ticket if its mailed to you. Some states require them to be delivered by an officer.

Which states?

jfulton wrote:
Quote:

It has also angered the public, which refused to pay 70 percent of the tickets.

Its good to read that more people are learning that its not always necessary to pay the ticket if its mailed to you. Some states require them to be delivered by an officer.

Which states require an officer to deliver the ticket?

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260, 295W, 1490T,2455LMT

Seems throwing in the trash works better

Then trying to vote the crooked B------s that schemed them in for revenue enhansment. Arizonas will be gone soon, but the cities and counties are still keeping theirs

Arizona

kkkelleher wrote:
jfulton wrote:
Quote:

It has also angered the public, which refused to pay 70 percent of the tickets.

Its good to read that more people are learning that its not always necessary to pay the ticket if its mailed to you. Some states require them to be delivered by an officer.

Which states require an officer to deliver the ticket?

According to my police friend in AZ, he says he throws them away because it has to be served in person. However, I believe in July AZ is getting rid of the cameras.

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Larry - Nuvi 680, Nuvi 1690, Nuvi 2797LMT

July 15th the freeway

July 15th the freeway speedcams are "supposed" to be turned off. I don't know if that includes the DPS mobile units. The cities will keep their redlight/speed cams and mobile units.

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OK.....so where the heck am I?

States

kkkelleher wrote:

Which states require an officer to deliver the ticket?

As someone else said, Arizona, also Virginia requires them to be delivered by an officer. It wouldn't surprise me if other states do too. Especially since Virginia is usually more aggressive in law enforcement.

?

there are lawyers for those tickets

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[URL=http://www.speedtest.net][IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/693683800.png[/IMG][/URL]

Lawyers

Yes and those lawyers also usually cost more than the ticket.

alofficial wrote:

there are lawyers for those tickets

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Legs

Please read the article and note what was said

Here is the article in it's entirity - no selective quoting.
*************
On Monday night, Mukilteo reversed its decision to set up traffic cameras.

A number of cities around here have cameras, including Seattle, Bellevue and Tacoma. Mukilteo, however, has Tim Eyman, the state's generalissimo of anti-tax initiatives — and to Eyman, using a camera to spit out traffic tickets is government "treating the citizens like an ATM."

Joining with activists at BanCams.com and Campaign for Liberty, Eyman set out to convince 15 percent of registered voters to back Mukilteo Initiative 2. Their success in collecting signatures is why the Mukilteo council has canceled the cameras.

"All initiatives are lobbying," Eyman says — and here is an instance of it.

If voters approve it in November, Initiative 2 will require a public vote before Mukilteo authorizes traffic cameras. Initiative 2 will also limit any traffic-camera tickets to the cost of the cheapest parking ticket. State law now limits them to the most-costly parking ticket.

A typical camera ticket around Puget Sound is $101 to $124. If you drive 36 mph in the 20-mph zone by Meadowdale High School in Lynnwood, between 7 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. on a school day, the penalty is $250.

The public justification for traffic cameras is safety. Lynnwood says it put in cameras at Meadowdale High and Lynnwood Elementary because drivers tended to speed there. Revenue from a given camera drops over time, showing that cameras do slow people down. And that is what Mukilteo's leaders said they wanted to do at Olympic View Middle School and along the Mukilteo Speedway. It's for safety.

It's also for money. Look at Lynnwood: The city has collected more than $2.1 million from its cameras this year. Some of this goes to the traffic-camera company, some to expenses and some is net gain to city government.

Cities are quick to reassure you that tickets from their cameras will not affect your car insurance — but why not, if this is a matter of safety? Why not take away people's driver's licenses? Why limit penalties to the payment of money, unless money is the goal?

Do cameras improve safety? Probably. But there are other ways to do it — ways that cost you less, and are less likely to make it feel like a police state.

What irks people about cameras is that there is no escaping them. No human can sit in front of a school from 7 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., five days a week, and nail everyone going 29 mph. A machine can. It does not have to eat lunch. It does not get bored. It is relentless.

I know: traffic rules are "the law." The good-government folks slam this down like a trump card. For them, it ends the discussion.

The rest of us don't want our law screwed down that tight. Regular cops are enough. We don't want mechanical ones.

In 2008, Arizona put in speed and red-light cameras. It has sent out more than 1.2 million tickets and collected $63.5 million. It has also angered the public, which refused to pay 70 percent of the tickets. Arizona's new governor, Jan Brewer, has ordered the cameras down by July 15.

Cameras make people grumble everywhere. But there was another reason: Arizonans have the right of initiative, and opponents had started collecting signatures for a ballot measure. And nowhere do politicians want to be on the wrong side of a public vote.

That is the power of initiatives — in Arizona, in Mukilteo and wherever people use them.
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What did the editorial writer say?

Well, he said "Do cameras improve safety? Probably."

And then he said "The rest of us don't want our law screwed down that tight. Regular cops are enough. We don't want mechanical ones."

I thought that was fairly hilarious - I'm sure he would want some laws "screwed down" pretty tight is it involved breaking and entering into his house when no law officer was around.

Red light as n ATM

Red light cams are a form of collecting revenue by means of electronic surveillance! Big brother is creating laws to monitor human activity for the revenue!We should demand from politics for them to be subject to the same laws they make!

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Gps! ask where to go and get there! Best of all, what we need is to have accurate pois to reach all destinations

red light cameras

does anyone know how much of a time frame do drivers get when the lights are changing to red.Or do we have to jam on our brakes & get rear ended?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

red light citations

Red light fines are delivered my mail in Fl.

light from yellow to red

leonardkB wrote:

does anyone know how much of a time frame do drivers get when the lights are changing to red.Or do we have to jam on our brakes & get rear ended?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Most traffic lights give you 1 second for every 10mph before light changes to red. ex 3omph would give you 3 seconds from start of yellow to start of red light.

red light citations

In Cleveland, Ohio they are delivered by mail.

But:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/04/petition_drives_begi...

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

Signal Time

FUCCOWIE wrote:
leonardkB wrote:

does anyone know how much of a time frame do drivers get when the lights are changing to red.Or do we have to jam on our brakes & get rear ended?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Most traffic lights give you 1 second for every 10mph before light changes to red. ex 3omph would give you 3 seconds from start of yellow to start of red light.

That is the engineering standard. The problem is and has been in the past is that the private companies, in order to generate more revenue, set the yellow light to less that the standard. Thereby generating more infractions and more revenue.

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If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there.

Please read the article and note what was said

jgermann wrote:

Here is the article in it's entirity - no selective quoting.
*************

I thought that was fairly hilarious - I'm sure he would want some laws "screwed down" pretty tight is it involved breaking and entering into his house when no law officer was around.

I could have sworn that's what the link above said word for word. why re-post the whole article.
That didn't make any sense at all. I was capable of clicking the link and reading it, just like other community members were.

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

Yellow Light Times

The Institute of Traffic Engineers recommend a yellow light time of 3-6 sec. A lot of lights with cameras have the minimum 3 secs.

Various studies have shown that if you increase the yellow time by 0.5-1sec, you decrease the number of red light incidents by up to 70%.

Where some communities have legislated long yellow light times, the number of infringements have decreased to the point of not making the cameras financially viable and have been removed - so much for safety!

they are gone here

Thankfully, they are gone here. The city council invalidated the election, but still got rid of the cameras. Since they are gone, the people who led the charge didn't really keep taking things to the next level (the city's refusal to validate the election - because the red light camera company threatened to sue them if they did).

It's a shame that other areas still have to put up with these things

red light cameras

leonardkB wrote:

does anyone know how much of a time frame do drivers get when the lights are changing to red,before a picture is taken?.Or do we have to jam on our brakes & get rear ended?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

BobDee, I expected you would read...

BobDee wrote:

I could have sworn that's what the link above said word for word. why re-post the whole article.
That didn't make any sense at all. I was capable of clicking the link and reading it, just like other community members were.

BobDee, I expected you would read the entire article, but not everyone does.

Additionally, there are a number of people who have taken one statement from an article and used it to imply that the article came to their preferred conclusion 9usually in opposition to cameras). For example, a number of statements above imply that revenue enhancement was the ONLY purpose of cameras.

This particular editorial writer objected to the fact that there was no "escaping" the ever present camera when someone had violated a law. His rant was that the laws were screwed down too tight. He was obviously against camera BUT had the decency to admit the they probably improved safety.

good article, drive safely

good article, drive safely

yep. ok

yep. ok

Violation Cameras and Enforcement Everywhere

jgermann wrote:

He was obviously against camera BUT had the decency to admit that they probably improved safety.

Just the expert I want to believe about improved safety, a reporter! Who should we believe next, the granny sitting on her porch? How about the university students doing a paper sponsored by the Red Light/ Speed Camera company?

How about we have alcohol/drug monitors leading in to the halls of Congress for all the politicians to show they're not drunk/stoned when they go to drive the country?

How about bedroom cameras to make sure people don't violate some of the behavior crimes that are still on the books?

Don't get me started on jaywalker cameras, though we'll probably have to imbed identity chips in everyone to make them effective.

Law enforcement can get ridiculous. While the purpose may be noble, redlight and speed camera implementation and profit sharing are part of that ridiculous nature.

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Zumo 550 & Zumo 665 My alarm clock is sunshine on chrome.

light from yellow to red

]
Most traffic lights give you 1 second for every 10mph before light changes to red. ex 3omph would give you 3 seconds from start of yellow to start of red light.

Fuccowie, is that time frame for all traffic lights around the country or just in your area?

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Garmin GPSmap76CS / Nuvi 200W

Yellow duration

Lew wrote:

Fuccowie, is that time frame for all traffic lights around the country or just in your area?

The ITE recommended practice (ITE Technical Committee 4A-16, "Recommended Practice: Determining Vehicle Change Intervals," ITE Journal, May 1985) for determining the appropriate length of a yellow interval is: y = t + (85th percentile speed)/(2a + 64.4g) where: t = driver reaction time in seconds (1.0 second is a commonly used value for this parameter) 85th percentile speed is in ft/s a = deceleration rate of vehicles, fps^2 (10 fps^2 is a commonly used value for this parameter) g = grade of approach, expressed as a decimal (ie 2% downgrade = -.02 64.4 = 2 times the acceleration due to gravity.

The rule of thumb of .5 seconds for every 5 mph results in a value that is less than recommended for 85th percentile speeds of 35 mph or less and a value that is larger than recommend for 85th percentile speeds greater than 35 mph for intersections at level grades.

There is no law on how to calculate the yellow time. In addition to the ITE Recommended Practice (to which there is significant variation as to actual practice), there is also a school of thought, bolstered by some research, that drivers stop safely with a range of yellow times of 4.3-4.7 seconds regardless of approach speeds, width of intersections, or approach grades. There are also signal controllers that limit the range of yellow times allowed by the programming, frequently 3-6 seconds.

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