Right On Red & Red Light Camera's

 

Ok has anyone had the problem the person in front of you not wanting to make a right on red because your at a red light cam intersection. I know if there is a sign stating no right on red your gonna get a ticket I got one! But has anyone gotten ticketed for right on red at a rlc intersection with no sign stating you can't make a right on red. Just curious!

Flip

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Flip Garmin Street P.330 Garmin 255WT Garmin LM50

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No

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Nüvi 2595LMT

It's not the red light

It's not the red light camera at fault. It's the DMV for issuing a license to these people in the first place.

Nope

I beleive the choice is yours, You are not required to make the turn, even if there are no restrictions. If you'd rather wait for the green, that's your prerogative. But if you wait, expect some horn honking from impatient people behind you.

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

Right On Red - How the Red Light Camera Works

In Nassau County NY, all red light cameras are actually full-motion video cameras. The people reviewing straight-on-red and right-on-red violations use the video to do that before issuing a summons, which comes with a still shot of the car going into the intersection with the red light visible. For a legal right-on-red the car must make a full stop behind the stop line, turn on the turn signal, and proceed. This is exactly the same thing as turning right at a stop sign. There is an issue about poor visibility of oncoming cars when you are behind the stop line - the person reviewing the video can't see that, where a police officer on the scene can.

All red light camera locations are known because the county has published the locations and posted signs there. All locations have heavy traffic. Many people simply refuse to do a right-on-red and are messing up traffic big time. The more traffic backs up, the more people get caught by the camera.

dobs108

Re: Right On Red - How the Red Light Camera Works

In the Phoenix area, the sensors in the ground are generally placed so that they do not detect cars doing a right turn.

You're right

BobDee wrote:

I beleive the choice is yours, You are not required to make the turn, even if there are no restrictions. If you'd rather wait for the green, that's your prerogative. But if you wait, expect some horn honking from impatient people behind you.

Correct. There have been times where I was uncomfortable turning, even though traffic technically was clear, so I waited. People behind seldom care that it's my choice, but it absolutely is.

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--- GPSmap 60CS, Nuvi 650 & Nuvi 1490T---

Right Turn On Red

BobDee wrote:

I beleive the choice is yours, You are not required to make the turn, even if there are no restrictions. If you'd rather wait for the green, that's your prerogative. But if you wait, expect some horn honking from impatient people behind you.

This is correct. You are NOT required to make the turn, at least in Connecticut and Massachusetts. Case in point. I was at an intersection and chose to wait for the green instead of taking the right on red. I had that impatient person behind me. He honked, and I ignored him because he honked. I almost didn't take the turn when it turned green, but there were other people at the intersection and I wanted to go home. As we finished the turn he pulled up on my left and gave me a what for, using hand gestures. So I gave him a "digitus imperius", which pissed him off apparently, and went right while he went left at the fork in the road.

I believe he learned the value of patience when he received a ticket for speeding. There was a police officer behind him.

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"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Can't always safely turn right

There are times when a large vehicle is beside you that you don't have a clear view of oncoming traffic unless you stick your nose out far enough to be hit. I realize that often the impatient people behind me can see even though I can't. But I don't trust them or their impatience, so I prefer to wait for the green if I can't see around the vehicle next to me.

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Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

Not so In Phoenix

jale wrote:

In the Phoenix area, the sensors in the ground are generally placed so that they do not detect cars doing a right turn.

Unfortunately this is not the case. There are several intersections in the City of Phoenix that the cameras detect right on red violations. That being said, none of the intersections are posted "No Right On Red." The cameras detect failure to stop for a red light violations and are backed up by video. I can't speak for other cities in the metro area, but beware in Phoenix.

As other contributors have stated, it's not illegal to wait for the green. It is annoying as hell though when there is no traffic to prevent this. Most of the time, it is out of state or out of country drivers who are not familiar with the law and err on the side of caution.

I've never had a problem but

I've never had a problem but maybe that's becuase if I know there is a red light camera I WAIT!! Not worth the headache.

not in VT

While we don't have red light cameras in VT...we do have a law that says you cannot turn right on a red arrow.....how many know that ??

I didn't know that!

phxpilot wrote:
jale wrote:

In the Phoenix area, the sensors in the ground are generally placed so that they do not detect cars doing a right turn.

Unfortunately this is not the case. There are several intersections in the City of Phoenix that the cameras detect right on red violations. That being said, none of the intersections are posted "No Right On Red." The cameras detect failure to stop for a red light violations and are backed up by video. I can't speak for other cities in the metro area, but beware in Phoenix.

Holy crap! I lived in the Phoenix area for two years and never knew that. How do you know which intersections are "no right turn" is they're not posted?

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--- GPSmap 60CS, Nuvi 650 & Nuvi 1490T---

ummmm

I don't have a problem turning right while the light is red. It's common sense to turn if its safe to turn unless there is a sign say not to turn. I don't think you should get a ticket for that at all.

perfect

..all is PERFECT..correct....good job

why wait

gregb882 wrote:

Correct. There have been times where I was uncomfortable turning, even though traffic technically was clear, so I waited. People behind seldom care that it's my choice, but it absolutely is.

Why would you wait even though traffic was clear? Just curious...

Why Wait

jazzyone wrote:
gregb882 wrote:

Correct. There have been times where I was uncomfortable turning, even though traffic technically was clear, so I waited. People behind seldom care that it's my choice, but it absolutely is.

Why would you wait even though traffic was clear? Just curious...

Because we don't trust the judgement call of the person reviewing the video, since he does not have the same view as if he were a police officer on the scene. With a straight-on-red violation it's pretty clear whether you get a summons or not, but there are other variables that come into right-on-red.

For instance, there are usually cars stopped on your left side, and you may not have the visibility while stopped behind the stop line. If you use the right turn signal and roll forward until you can see oncoming traffic, and then remain stopped until the light turns green is that a violation? There are all sorts of awkward situations that might happen that are not your fault. A pedestrian could be on the crosswalk and not yet visible to me, but he would be visible to the camera.

I believe every driver has a duty to other drivers to move forward when he can, even though it is not required under the law. I plan my route using the RLC file to avoid right-on-red, and if I get stuck doing that I am going to sit tight until the light turns green.

dobs108

Right turn on red never required

It's never required in any state as far as I know to make a right turn on red whatever the circumstances. Those behind who don't like wating can lump it. I liken this to the people who get upset at me because I don't want to go 48 mph instead of only 39 mph in a 35 mph zone just because there are no cops around. They'll just have to wait until they have clear road ahead of them to risk the ticket.

I fully understand why some don't want to risk a right turn on red where there's a red light camera but no sign prohibiting it, but there's little risk of getting a bogus ticket AS LONG AS you come to a complete stop behind the white line first. The enforcement systems are set to check for that.

Problem is, some people think they make a complete stop but are really making a rolling stop, and some stop over the line. I stopped a few inches over a white line before turning right on red last week at an intersection where there was a camera and am now nervously watching the mail to see if I get a ticket. Supposedly, Illinois is passing regulations for red light camera tickets that will prohibit enforcement for minor, primarily revenue-raising (not safety-related) infractions where somebody makes a complete stop a few inches over a white line before turning on red, but I don't think it's taken effect yet. Yeah, I understand it can compromise pedestrian safety, but I wasn't in a crosswalk and there were no pedestrians anywhere at this intersection.

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JMoo On

The law in Arizona

phxpilot wrote:

Unfortunately this is not the case. There are several intersections in the City of Phoenix that the cameras detect right on red violations. That being said, none of the intersections are posted "No Right On Red." The cameras detect failure to stop for a red light violations and are backed up by video. I can't speak for other cities in the metro area, but beware in Phoenix.

The law in Arizona is quite clear. If there is no sign saying "No Right On Red" or "No Turn On Red", it is perfectly legal to stop at a red light and then turn right if the traffic is clear. Whether the camera "detects" anything is up to the system, but there will be no enforceable ticket if there was a complete stop and the traffic was clear as long as there is no posted sign to the contrary.

Rolling Right

I read that cameras to detect not coming to a full stop on a (red)/right turn are going in now because they will be bigger revenue generators than red light or speed cameras. If that is the case, do they have to be marked as such like red light cameras? Will we be able to download such cameras from POI Factory or will they be included with red light cameras?

Rolling Right

Robert Daniel wrote:

I read that cameras to detect not coming to a full stop on a (red)/right turn are going in now because they will be bigger revenue generators than red light or speed cameras. If that is the case, do they have to be marked as such like red light cameras? Will we be able to download such cameras from POI Factory or will they be included with red light cameras?

You are right! In Nassau County NY right-on-red is the big revenue generator and the cause of a big controversy because this was never mentioned in the discussion by the county legislature before the law was passed! Right-on-red cameras are also straight-on-red cameras, and very many of them are included in the POI Factory red light camera file. In Nassau County NY they are marked with small signs and on the county website, but for most of the country, it is secret.

dobs108 - nuvi 760

Illegality of Rolling Stops Is No Secret

Rolling through a stop sign or a red light has ALWAYS been illegal as far as I know. Even if right on red is allowed, you must come to a complete stop before making the turn.

I have received two tickets in 40 years of driving for rolling through stop signs. Each time I saw there was no cross traffic coming. But I did not notice that a cop was also there to observe me slow down and roll through the stop. So how observant was I???

If I had just stopped for 3 - 5 seconds each time I could have saved $150 (30 years ago that was a LOT of money). My experience and the tickets have made me aware of the law. Now I just stop at all stop signs and red lights, and only proceed when safe to do so.

Turn Right, Turn Left!!

In Manitoba:

If you are turning from a one-way to another one-way street, it’s legal to make a left turn on a red light, provided there is no sign prohibiting it; you come to a complete stop, and don’t interfere with other traffic or pedestrians.

I wonder how that works with red light camneras? I sure wouldn't make the turn to the far lane.

Hollywood stops

Yes, they always have been. LOL!

People in my area just drive like the stop sign wasn't even there. I've found the only thing that has saved my bacon was defensive driving.

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nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

One-way intersections probably not the most dangerous

computerperson wrote:

In Manitoba:

If you are turning from a one-way to another one-way street, it’s legal to make a left turn on a red light, provided there is no sign prohibiting it; you come to a complete stop, and don’t interfere with other traffic or pedestrians.

I wonder how that works with red light camneras? I sure wouldn't make the turn to the far lane.

While we all know that red-light cameras are really for revenue generation, they have to justify them as being all about safety. So they will naturally target dangerous intersections. My guess is that intersections of two one way streets don't normally rank high on the list of problem intersections. So unless ALL intersections get enforcement cameras, you likely won't run across this situation.

Patrick

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Garmin nüvi 200 (my first GPS), 780, & 3700 Series. And a Mac user.

Left-On-Red One-Way Intersections

Guttermouth wrote:
computerperson wrote:

In Manitoba:

If you are turning from a one-way to another one-way street, it’s legal to make a left turn on a red light, provided there is no sign prohibiting it; you come to a complete stop, and don’t interfere with other traffic or pedestrians.

I wonder how that works with red light cameras? I sure wouldn't make the turn to the far lane.

While we all know that red-light cameras are really for revenue generation, they have to justify them as being all about safety. So they will naturally target dangerous intersections. My guess is that intersections of two one way streets don't normally rank high on the list of problem intersections. So unless ALL intersections get enforcement cameras, you likely won't run across this situation.

Patrick

You are right. There aren't many red light cameras at one-way intersections. There are no one-way intersections in Nassau County NY, a suburb east of New York City. But in the city itself there are a large number of one-way intersections. Unfortunately, right-on-red (and left-on-red) is prohibited everywhere in the city, so there is no problem with left-on-red cameras! They have made up for this with the largest number of red light cameras anywhere.

dobs108 - nuvi 760

We have that and short yellows to boot

There is at least 1 red light camera on a 1-way - 1 -way intersection at York Ave. and Fort Street in Winnipeg.

So far as revenue generating I found this news article, alhtough I can't figure out how to measure 1/10 of a second yellow light differential (they are counting on that, I bet!):

The city of Winnipeg, Canada, has shortened the duration of the yellow warning at intersections equipped with red light cameras. The length of the yellow is the single most important factor in determining the financial success of a photo enforcement program, according to documents obtained from a red light camera vendor in 2001. The city’s signal changes came to light after a 64-year-old grandmother named Judy received a ticket in the mail claiming her minivan had run a red light on August 31, 2008. She contacted Larry Stefanuik, a former police constable who now helps motorists fight traffic tickets who began looking into the ticket. Judy’s ticket shows the intersection had been set with a 3.9 second yellow and that she entered the intersection—slowly—just 0.1 seconds after the light turned red.

That did not match what the city’s stated policy of setting the yellow warning to last at least 4.0 seconds at every intersection, according to an e-mail obtained by Stefanuik.

“So in reality she had not run the red because it still should have been yellow,” Stefanuik said. “Her speed was 49 km/h in a 60k m/h zone [30 MPH in a 37 zone]. She was robbed of 1/10th of a second.”

The local court was not interested in exploring whether the city had violated its own policies by shortening the yellow. On March 18, the court imposed a C$135 fine on Judy, reduced from the standard $190 fine.

These fines have been adding up at the red light camera intersection in question. By 2007 the camera had issued 173 tickets, but by 2008 it was on track to issue 324 — an 87 percent increase. The majority of the red light camera intersections in Winnipeg have seen a similar increase in tickets issued that helped drive an overall ticketing increase in the city of 23 percent.

Improper Action on Part of the City

I do not object to the use of speed and red light cameras. Unfortunately, it is actions like this that damage their value and their credibility. Traffic laws should be designed to increase safety and reduce accidents - shorterning the length of the yellow does neither, it only increases revenue.

This is just a variation on the classic "speed trap" and it should be illegal.

???

I don't understand why anyone could be mad that the camera caught them. It is no different than getting a normal ticket from a police officer. All they had to do was actually stop to avoid the problem.

Not The Same

Chair wrote:

I don't understand why anyone could be mad that the camera caught them. It is no different than getting a normal ticket from a police officer. All they had to do was actually stop to avoid the problem.

Because we don't trust the judgement call of the person reviewing the video, since he does not have the same view as if he were a police officer on the scene. With a straight-on-red violation it's pretty clear whether you get a summons or not, but there are other variables that come into right-on-red.

For instance, there are usually cars stopped on your left side, and you may not have the visibility while stopped behind the stop line. If you use the right turn signal and roll forward until you can see oncoming traffic, and then remain stopped until the light turns green is that a violation? There are all sorts of awkward situations that might happen that are not your fault. A pedestrian could be on the crosswalk and not yet visible to me, but he would be visible to the camera.

dobs108