No more GPS on flights?

 

Due to the recent incidents in Detroit, security officials are requiring airlines to enforce stricter security measures during the last hour of flights. One of those new restrictions is to disable the GPS or map progress displays that some airlines have. If they make the airlines turn off the display, they for sure won't allow personal GPS use, either.

New rules for the last hour of a flight:
No electronics use.
Must remain in your seat - no bathroom trips during the last hour.
May not have anything on your lap.
Airline may not display your position or progress on a map.
Airline may not announce your exact arrival time.

I can see a day coming when it's like the SF movies about space travel. They will just put us all into suspended animation during the flight and wake us up when we get there. rolleyes

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Isolation

It may also eventually come to the point that the passengers are put into an isolation room of sorts for several hours to a day before even boarding the plan. No outside contact of any kind such as news or phones. Then they take you through a dark hall with no outside illumination and you board a completely windowless plane. This way you have no idea where you are at. When you get to your destination the process reverses.

Hopefully it does not get to this point but it seems like we are heading that way.

remember that movie Silence

remember that movie Silence of the Lambs.. and the restraints they put the doctor in.. straightjacket and a mask so he cant bite anyone.. that is what i think every passenger will have to be put into in order to be able to go on a commmercial flight in the future ..

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DriveSmart 50, DriveSmart 60, nuvi 2595, nuvi 3760,

shame, the gps sounds like

shame, the gps sounds like so much fun, although i can understand why its not allowed

How totally STUPID are the TSA "experts".....

johnc wrote:

Due to the recent incidents in Detroit, security officials are requiring airlines to enforce stricter security measures during the last hour of flights.

Answer: They really aren't "security experts" but just overpaid bureacrats, once again making a knee-jerk reaction that is totally meaningless.

HOW IS THE LAST HOUR OF A FLIGHT ANY DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER PART ????
Answer: It really ISN'T......so most of these new "regulations" are worthless. They do ABSOLUTELY nothing to deter a terrorist attack and are just "window dressing", designed to make it APPEAR that we are doing something.

I have just about lost every shread of faith I ever had in our government. Pogo was right.

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Magellan Maestro 4250// MIO C310X

Tell us how you REALLY feel

ka1167 wrote:

Answer: They really aren't "security experts" but just overpaid bureacrats, once again making a knee-jerk reaction that is totally meaningless.

HOW IS THE LAST HOUR OF A FLIGHT ANY DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER PART ????
Answer: It really ISN'T......so most of these new "regulations" are worthless. They do ABSOLUTELY nothing to deter a terrorist attack and are just "window dressing", designed to make it APPEAR that we are doing something.

I have just about lost every shread of faith I ever had in our government. Pogo was right.

IMPO there is some validity in your observation, but that's just MY opinion and these guys have to be seen as doing SOMETHING in terms of a response - if (and the 'IF' is quite probably not required) only to justify their salaries to their bosses. Who knows? Perhaps the whole thing was just a theatrical production to motivate legislators to pump even more money into 'protection'?

Have you ever heard the late George Carlin speak about airport security? It's absolutely hilarious - and very unfortunately absolutely true.

All they can do is to provide (as he so craftily said on his Napalm & Silly Putty album) the ILLUSION of security.

If the bad guys wanted, they could very easily infiltrate the system. Where there is a will, there is a way.

It is pretty obvious that there are an almost infinite number of ways to cause havoc - perhaps the most effective is the one they seem to have chosen; Sit around and do nothing for a few decades, tossing out the occasional threatening epithet to keep us nervous and let the other guy get paranoid and sweat it out, waiting for the other shoe to drop.

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Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

On Washington

bramfrank wrote:

IMPO there is some validity in your observation, but these guys have to be seen a doing SOMETHING in terms of a response - if only to justify their salaries to their bosses. Who knows? Perhaps the whole thing was a theatrical production to motivate legislators to pump even more money into 'protection'?

I live and work in DC and work very closely with many at TSA as part of my job. Let's not be so quick to paint them all with the same brush and call them reactionary. Often times what comes out is not what is needed or really wanted but what they are directed to state by the political appointees running the agency.

One must remember, the heads of these agencies got their position through political patronage, not on merit.

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ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

I Choose Liberty

Life is dangerous. There will always be individuals who choose to find and take advantage of weaknesses in other individuals, organizations, and technical systems. This is the one thing we can count on. Terrorism fails when we choose not to react with terror. The media is our greatest weakness; it can be manipulated more easily than any airport security feature. We have become brainwashed to react with terror and outrage when reason and analysis guided by wisdom is our best tool. Look for a document that guarantees your safety during travel; but remember that it's not possible to travel without imparting energy to things of mass. For my part, I choose not to react with terror, but reason; I choose to grasp liberty and leave the illusion of safety for the sheep.
Jen

Just the last hour

Just the last hour so the plane can't be blown up over the United States. Idiots that think someone would not go into the toilet an hour and fifteen minutes before landing to set up something instead of say 45 minutes before are who is letting the terrorists get away with this fear factor. Knee jerking just to get something out in an attempt to ease the fear doesn't cut it.
I don't have the answer but if I did they wouldn't listen anyway.

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Nuvi 2460LMT

My point exactly......

a_user wrote:

One must remember, the heads of these agencies got their position through political patronage, not on merit.

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Magellan Maestro 4250// MIO C310X

What about.......

mmullins98 wrote:

Just the last hour so the plane can't be blown up over the United States.

I believe those "last hour" rules apply to ALL flights......even those that originate in the US.
If it was only International flights, then it would make a tiny bit of sense.

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Magellan Maestro 4250// MIO C310X

New rules only apply to international flights

ka1167 wrote:
mmullins98 wrote:

Just the last hour so the plane can't be blown up over the United States.

I believe those "last hour" rules apply to ALL flights......even those that originate in the US.
If it was only International flights, then it would make a tiny bit of sense.

The public outcry on this is

The public outcry on this is spreading. Here are the reactions of some of the world's most frequent travelers: http://tinyurl.com/yznykfs

This security theater is utterly dumb. We are the laughing stock of the world for falling for this crap.

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http://www.poi-factory.com/node/21626 - red light cameras do not work

terrorist, yeah right

The only terrorist attacks are those staged by governments to control us all. It seems to get easier every day.

you be the judge www.wtc7.net

Gone a little too far.........

packrat555 wrote:

The only terrorist attacks are those staged by governments to control us all. It seems to get easier every day.

Should have known that this would end up with someone chiming in with a conspiracy theory link.

Sad but I think this thread should now be closed as it is TOO FAR off topic.

P.S. The "last hour" restrictions are for inbound flights only. Some of the provisions may or may not apply to domestic flights. That's somewhat unclear at the moment.

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Magellan Maestro 4250// MIO C310X

I've only gotten scant GPS

I've only gotten scant GPS reception if I'm next to a window before. But it is cool to see the 500+ MPH max speed locked in!

The world is getting worse every day.

Man I hope not to live to be an old man. I'm so disgusted with politics and bureaucracy now - if I live to be 80 I'll surely die because my head exploded.

I was laid off my geek job as a Sr software engineer 10 years ago with the dot-com collapse. This allowed me to go into business for myself, supporting bikers online. Thank God I've had no need to fly since before 9-11. I chose not to fly anywhere then - said I'll not tolerate the treatment passengers have to suffer. And now it's way worse. I predict there will be strip searches of all passengers soon, with this latest yahoo smuggling undetectable explosives in his panties. Explosives that have been known as a terrorist favorite for years. There's already virtual strip searches with the x-ray eyes technology. How do I get that job? Could save me money on porn...

I drive or ride my bikes everywhere. Just like shopping at wal-mart - if only Wal-mart has it, then I don't need it. (But then that's for another blog.) If I have to fly to get there - then I don't need to go.

--
If you are an American Christian, you owe two debts you can never repay. To Christ, who died for your soul. And to the American servicemen, who died for your freedom. Freedom isn't free.

It is so easy to be critical . . . .

but apparently nearly impossible to come up with anything any better. I get very tired of listening to self appointed experts (and politicians left and right), criticize how prevailing decision makers are wrongly handling critical situations. While I may agree with the complaints I have a hard time sympathizing when no constructive alternative is presented. I find myself reluctantly taking the other side and silently asking "What would you have done?" Until we actually find ourselves in that perfect world we all think we deserve to live in, we will be putting up with some inconveniences.

If the new rules had been in effect and had I been asked (or told) to put my GPS away on that flight into Detroit I might have been angry but better angry than dead as might have happened. But then I wouldn't have known there was a bomber aboard in either case.

Sorry for the rant but I feel better.
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Kyue2 - Nuvi 255W

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kyue2 - nuvi 255w

wow

kyue2 wrote:

but apparently nearly impossible to come up with anything any better. I get very tired of listening to self appointed experts (and politicians left and right), criticize how prevailing decision makers are wrongly handling critical situations. While I may agree with the complaints I have a hard time sympathizing when no constructive alternative is presented. I find myself reluctantly taking the other side and silently asking "What would you have done?" Until we actually find ourselves in that perfect world we all think we deserve to live in, we will be putting up with some inconveniences.

If the new rules had been in effect and had I been asked (or told) to put my GPS away on that flight into Detroit I might have been angry but better angry than dead as might have happened. But then I wouldn't have known there was a bomber aboard in either case.

Sorry for the rant but I feel better.
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Kyue2 - Nuvi 255W

Are you serious?

How does preventing passengers from going to the bathroom prevent dangers? Is it even humane to not allow people to go and relieve themselves? How do you control a kid with a small bladder from not peeing all over themselves and causing an unsanitary mess on the plane?

Just because you may not be able to think of something better does not mean that any ridiculous security measures make sense and are okay.

Life is full of risks. You could be struck by lightening today and die. Does it make any better if you were told to stop using your GPS or the bathroom because it *might* stop lightening from striking you and killing you?

Think people. God gave you a brain, use it!!!

--
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/21626 - red light cameras do not work

Exactly

nuvic320 wrote:

Think people. God gave you a brain, use it!!!

Well said!

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kyue2 - nuvi 255w

Some enlightenment from the

Some enlightenment from the media, finally people are starting to use their brains instead of living in fear and hoping that some black magic will keep them safe: http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2009/12/28/tsa-measures-afte...

Stupid animals do what they are told without any logic or thought, here's hoping the human race can actually use its gift of a brain to think through some of the nonsense being thrust upon it.

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http://www.poi-factory.com/node/21626 - red light cameras do not work

Collateral damage

ka1167 wrote:
johnc wrote:

HOW IS THE LAST HOUR OF A FLIGHT ANY DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER PART ????
Answer: It really ISN'T......so most of these new "regulations" are worthless. They do ABSOLUTELY nothing to deter a terrorist attack and are just "window dressing", designed to make it APPEAR that we are doing something.

If a terrorist blew up a plane over the atlantic it does no good. Plane disappears and never found. Compared to the plane blowing up while on descent to an airport, and does collateral damage on the ground all being filmed by the media and broadcast worldwide.

No more GPS on Flights

So are they not allowing GPSr, or no electronics for the last hour?
I have used my GPSr on flights from Europe and it is fun to see your location.
Do not mind turning off electronics at takeoff and landings.
However if they where such a danger, I think the terrorist could just bring cell phones on board and forget about smuggling bombs.

--
It's these changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes Nothing remains quite the same With all of our running and all of our cunning If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

Sigh......

kyue2 wrote:

but apparently nearly impossible to come up with anything any better.

No it isn't. Starting with 9-11, the perpetrators of ALL of the well publisized attacks have been on some government security list and/or were doing things that should have obviously triggered extra attention.

Or to put it another way, someone with authority and responsibility screwed up. You can't catch fish if your net has huge holes in it. And trying to patch a few TINY holes won't do much good if you leave the BIG ones open.

We need to get serious about BEHAVIOR profiling while realizing that certain ethnic groups are going to be targeted more often. That's life; get over it.

If I am walking around in Iran wearing a baseball cap, Bears T-shirt, shorts and floppys....I should expect to attract some extra attention. NOBODY should be surprised or dismayed that it also works the other way around.

The object here is NOT to make everybody happy.

--
Magellan Maestro 4250// MIO C310X

OK......

sushidan141 wrote:

If a terrorist blew up a plane over the atlantic it does no good.

Well it doesn't do as much "good". (Bad choice of phrasing there!)

The regs. only apply to incoming International flights to the US but......taking a wider world view, bringing down a plane full on Americans just as it leaves London would have a very similar impact.

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Magellan Maestro 4250// MIO C310X

Using GPS Causes Death!

Kyue2 said in part..

kyue2 wrote:

If the new rules had been in effect and had I been asked (or told) to put my GPS away on that flight into Detroit I might have been angry but better angry than dead as might have happened.Kyue2 - Nuvi 255W

Obviously I'm missing something here that I'm unable to understand.. so I'm going to need a explanation.

Let me see if I get this right. You said.. "You might have been angry if you had been told to put your GPS away because would have died by not doing so."

OK.. I'll bite.

"How is using your GPS on a plane going to cause you to die!?"

Inquiring Minds Want To Know?

Nuvi1300WTGPS

Nuvi1300WTGPS@Gmail.com

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I'm not really lost.... just temporarily misplaced!

This is from the Associated Press...

By DAVID KOENIG, AP Airlines Writer David Koenig, Ap Airlines Writer – 1 hr 12 mins ago

DALLAS – Airline officials say in-flight security rules have been eased after a two-day clampdown.

At the captain's discretion, passengers can once again have blankets and other items on their laps or move about the cabin during the tail end of flight, two industry officials briefed on the situation said Monday.

Restrictions were put into place following a bombing attempt on an international flight that landed Friday in Detroit.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because federal safety officials had not publicly announced the changes.

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ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

Screeners were distracted

I heard the screeners were distracted by a suspicious looking grandma with knitting needles.

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><> Glenn <>< Garmin nüvi 2598

bt did she have

gdfaini wrote:

I heard the screeners were distracted by a suspicious looking grandma with knitting needles.

Did she have a windup alarm clock tied to a couple of sticks of pepperoni?

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ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

Or......

a_user wrote:
gdfaini wrote:

I heard the screeners were distracted by a suspicious looking grandma with knitting needles.

Did she have a windup alarm clock tied to a couple of sticks of pepperoni?

Was that Grandmother in question knitting an Afghan?

Drum roll.........

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You can walk a horse to water, but a pencil has to be led.

Last Hour

Think it might have something to do with having less time to react or recover (if possible) from problems in a low flying plane coming in for a landing?

The unfriendly skies

Thank goodness I don't have to fly very often. With all the restrictions and extra costs associated with carrying baggage (imagine people wanting to bring baggage onto a trip) and getting overpriced food since you can't even bring water with you. It's a wonder anyone flies anymore if they don't absolutely have to.

johnc wrote: no bathroom

johnc wrote:

no bathroom trips during the last hour.
rolleyes

They better have a Bag in my front seat pouch for my weak bladder smile

IMHO, If they let you board naked on the plane without any carry-ons, they won't even need expensive screening devices. smile This method will save a lot of my tax dollars and also the safest method for airline security smile

Happy Holidays... Be Safe .... God Bless Us All...

--
Street Pilot C340, nuvi 265WT, Mio Moov 300, nuvi 255W, Navigon 2100 (Retired)

So if I pee in the seat

So if I pee in the seat because I'm not allowed to go to the bathroom....... They better not approach me afterward with a bill...

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A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

Not True

kmo wrote:

IMHO, If they let you board naked on the plane without any carry-ons, they won't even need expensive screening devices. smile This method will save a lot of my tax dollars and also the safest method for airline security smile

Happy Holidays... Be Safe .... God Bless Us All...

This has already been tried:

arrow http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/28/eveningnews/main53...

--
Tampa, FL - Garmin nüvi 660 (Software Ver 4.90), 2019.30 CN NA NT maps | Magellan Meridian Gold

Seems like a GPS should not

Seems like a GPS should not be a security concern.

Yes, we're all peed off .....

Ya know, maybe I could stay in my seat for an hour before landing even after that final chilled drink at 30,000 feet before descending. But how are you going to convince kids that the world is a safer place because they can't go to the bathroom before landing? Maybe the overhead emergency compartment should have urinal tubes next to the oxygen masks for those who won't be able to hold it the last hour of descent before landing. Yet another reason to drive across the USA and enjoy my GPS.....

--
TomTom One 125, One 140S, Via 1500 and iPhone TomTom App

silliness

packrat555 wrote:

The only terrorist attacks are those staged by governments to control us all. It seems to get easier every day.

you be the judge www.wtc7.net

How many people would it take to pull off a government conspiracy like 911, and where are all these conspirators now? Did they kill them all off so they wouldn't talk you think?

--
If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else. - Yogi Berra

Who's winning right now?

The purpose and goal of terrorism is to inspire fear in people's mind and force/allow authorities to put freedom limiting processes and possibly draconian rules in place. It's been like that for centuries.

Now who's winning at this time?

What will it take?

Will it take another catastrophic event like 9-11 for America to open its eyes again? We are acting as a police force in the Middle East. We should be on the offensive and relentlessly beating the enemy. For example here are some rules of engagement in Afghanistan. If you see a group of insurgents planting a land mine, then you can shoot at them. If you see a group of insurgents who just put out a land mine, but are walking away, then you cannot engage them. You can only shoot when shot at. Also we are allowing this group of people to flock to our country and use their religious centers as a place to recruit insurgents and raise money. One day we might get the right ideas on how to defeat the enemy. Until then, expect rules such as the ones imposed during the last hour of flights.

Remember...

a_user wrote:

I live and work in DC and work very closely with many at TSA as part of my job. Let's not be so quick to paint them all with the same brush and call them reactionary. Often times what comes out is not what is needed or really wanted but what they are directed to state by the political appointees running the agency.
One must remember, the heads of these agencies got their position through political patronage, not on merit.

Agree'd..sorta..As you say...
One must remember..those workers take their marching orders from those 'leaders'...

Geez..think Napalitono! What a retarded moronic DISASTER.

You can have the best..most skilled staff of all time..but when you have a moron for a leader, all of that is moot.

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Nuvi 350 Born Oct 07 - Nuvi 660 Unit #2 (re)Born Sept 08 - Nuvi 360(Gift to 'the chick' yet maintained by myself) Born July 08

GPS on commercial flights

For years the commercial airlines have banned hand held GPS's from passengers. Its listed in their publications, and in-flight magazines. This was in effect prior to 9-11 ..

It's more about government control

First/last hour restrictions are more about government control than safety - we are accepting more & more government control - it's like the boiling frog. There is also a philosophy that whenever something goes wrong, you must implement changes (any changes) to demonstrate you're taking it seriously and actively working to prevent a reoccurance.

Hmmm....

EARL-M wrote:

First/last hour restrictions are more about government control than safety - we are accepting more & more government control - it's like the boiling frog. There is also a philosophy that whenever something goes wrong, you must implement changes (any changes) to demonstrate you're taking it seriously and actively working to prevent a reoccurance.

Reminds me of...

"We cannot expect Americans to jump from capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism until they suddenly awake to find they have Communism."

-Soviet Leader Nikita Khrushchev, 1959

(See hussain administration for this in action)

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Nuvi 350 Born Oct 07 - Nuvi 660 Unit #2 (re)Born Sept 08 - Nuvi 360(Gift to 'the chick' yet maintained by myself) Born July 08

I agree with Jenny

jennyzita wrote:

Life is dangerous. There will always be individuals who choose to find and take advantage of weaknesses in other individuals, organizations, and technical systems. This is the one thing we can count on. Terrorism fails when we choose not to react with terror. The media is our greatest weakness; it can be manipulated more easily than any airport security feature. We have become brainwashed to react with terror and outrage when reason and analysis guided by wisdom is our best tool. Look for a document that guarantees your safety during travel; but remember that it's not possible to travel without imparting energy to things of mass. For my part, I choose not to react with terror, but reason; I choose to grasp liberty and leave the illusion of safety for the sheep.
Jen

Jen, that was beautifully said. Amen.

The media and the people who hang breathlessly on terrorism stories and then demand action--whether we're talking about terrorists who blow up jets/trains/buses, campus shooters, or backpack bombers--empower idiocy. I'm not saying it should be ignored, or that policy shouldn't change in response to these acts. Of course the government/military/police have to react. But the attention these stories get is WAY overblown, and it only encourages disenfranchised people to view terrorism as a way to foment change or get revenge. The wall-to-wall cable news outlet coverage--not cool. The wave of profile stories about the terrorist(s) that always follow in the wake of these incidents--they make terrorists into "important" people that they never otherwise would have been.

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JMoo On

Alerts

From what I heard, if they would have picked up on the alerts they were given on this guy the incident may not have happened at all.

--
Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.

Right on

dood wrote:
EARL-M wrote:

First/last hour restrictions are more about government control than safety - we are accepting more & more government control - it's like the boiling frog. There is also a philosophy that whenever something goes wrong, you must implement changes (any changes) to demonstrate you're taking it seriously and actively working to prevent a reoccurance.

Reminds me of...

"We cannot expect Americans to jump from capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism until they suddenly awake to find they have Communism."

-Soviet Leader Nikita Khrushchev, 1959

(See hussain administration for this in action)

Kind of sounds like what's happening in this country now

--
Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.

Can't Wait for Govt Healt Care!

Don B wrote:

From what I heard, if they would have picked up on the alerts they were given on this guy the incident may not have happened at all.

I just can't wait for our government to take over my health care. We won't need to worry about terrorists trying to kill us.

--
><> Glenn <>< Garmin nüvi 2598

Here's an even better example, but...

Gary A wrote:
kmo wrote:

IMHO, If they let you board naked on the plane without any carry-ons, they won't even need expensive screening devices. smile This method will save a lot of my tax dollars and also the safest method for airline security smile

Happy Holidays... Be Safe .... God Bless Us All...

This has already been tried:

arrow http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/28/eveningnews/main5347847.shtml

still a security lapse, as the passengers went through security with their clothes on.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/nudist-flight-taking-off-in-g...

--
NEOhioGuy - Garmin 2639, MIO Knight Rider

Interesting thought

gdfaini wrote:

I just can't wait for our government to take over my health care. We won't need to worry about terrorists trying to kill us.

I've been on Medicare for 10 years now and haven't had any attempts on my life yet. Guess I should be more vigilant. confused

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kyue2 - nuvi 255w

one more freedom taken away.

one more freedom taken away. What's next, chaining passengers to their seats like the amusement parks?

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