Laser tag
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 16 years
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OK, not a GPS subject, but given how much bandwidth is used to discuss red light and speed cameras, I figure this is fair game for discussion:
Having been unfairly tagged by a laser equipped police officer, I decided to fight the ticket and after waiting almost 2 years for the case to come to court, I won on a technicality.
However in doing the preparatory work for the trial I was stuck by just how arbitrary the system for ticketing is, whether being tagged by laser or by radar . . .
When I was stopped I asked to see the readout. Permission was denied - and my GPS did not agree with the charge.
So, the obvious question becomes one where I have to ask just how it is that Laser guns are not equipped with digital cameras that have the readouts superimposed on the image?
Without some photographic proof, how can we know (and for that matter how can the officer assure himself) that the readout in question was the one taken off my vehicle?
I never raised the point with the judge, but this same issue hit home last summer when I was pulled over by a NY State Trooper while in a line of cloeely spaced vehicles - I wonder how he managed to pick me out when I was perhaps 20 feet from the car ahead of me and the one behind was likewise about 20 feet back.
The officer was travelling in the other direction, made a U-Turn and sped past a lot of traffic to pull over my friend and me, who were riding motorcycles on that warm and sunny day.
I DID get the ticket, but pleaded it down to a non-moving violation . . I should have simply gone to court and pleaded 'moving with the traffic', but the cost to head to the court (2 hours and across a national border from my home) made it simpler to pay if there was no other impact on my life.
But the question in my mind is . . . how does one prove that the charge is valid? That it was YOUR vehicle that was tagged? Certainly the office, focussing through the sight of that laser gun cannot see any other similar vehicles, because his attention is pinned on the gunsight . . . and even so, how can he prove it was MY vehicle he tagged?
LASER
I've heard the fishing analogy used - when you go fishing, you never catch all the fish. If you're the fish unfortunate enough to get caught, I've heard that the court's presumption is usually that the officer is correct and contrary to the US Constitution, the burden of proof is on "the fish".
Court
But the question in my mind is . . . how does one prove that the charge is valid? That it was YOUR vehicle that was tagged? Certainly the office, focussing through the sight of that laser gun cannot see any other similar vehicles, because his attention is pinned on the gunsight . . . and even so, how can he prove it was MY vehicle he tagged?
That is what a trial is for. This is where the evidence is brought against you and when you can cross examine the officer.
A LIDAR gun is much easier to operate than RADAR. Put the aiming dot on the speeders front plate or headlight and squeeze the trigger.
fight it in court
That brings up a thought. If you had your GPS there and it was on, it would be tracking your movement. Could you take the tracking log to court, submit it as evidence that you were not going the speed you were accused of?
Jeff
I've had a similar thing
I've had a similar thing happen before. There is no way to prove you weren't speeding unless your gps is keeping a tracklog all the time. I got pulled over right next to a freeway exit once. claimed I was doing 60mph on a side street. All he had to do was turn the gun towards the freeway for a second and whala, 60mph ticket. I just ended up paying it because there was no way I could prove otherwise.
Keep your gps turned on and logging!!
track logs
That brings up a thought. If you had your GPS there and it was on, it would be tracking your movement. Could you take the tracking log to court, submit it as evidence that you were not going the speed you were accused of?
Jeff
I posted this some where before. A family had a GPS on their teenage son's car. He got a ticket. The parents showed the judge the track log. Although the judge was impressed, he witheld judgement for 6 months, then dismissed the ticket when the kid received no other tickets. Judges do not want to doubt an officer's statement.
1490LMT 1450LMT 295w
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That last statement is the point. Judges do not WANT to doubt the officer; Yet, up here, in the alar industry you do not let a cop go into a premises unescorted (I operate an alarm company).
The saying is that 'a thin cop goes in and a fat one comes out'.
Cops are people and they have their prejudices and they have been known to act on them.
That's why I think laser and radar guns should have digital cameras on them as a level of proof.
Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T
bramfrank wrote: But the
But the question in my mind is . . . how does one prove that the charge is valid? That it was YOUR vehicle that was tagged? Certainly the office, focussing through the sight of that laser gun cannot see any other similar vehicles, because his attention is pinned on the gunsight . . . and even so, how can he prove it was MY vehicle he tagged?
In the kangaroo court known as traffic court, the cop is right and you are wrong. Only if you present overwhelming evidence that the cop is wrong may you be found innocent. Though even then, depending on the court, you may well still be found guilty.
My personal favorite is having the cop testify that he did not see my vehicle, could not see the location he claimed I was speeding in, wasn't using the equipment, and was told by the radar gun operating office that I was not the correct car. I was found guilty anyways.
Speeding Wall..!
I made a comment on one of the other threads saying..
There was a guy who went to court fighting a speeding ticket. The COP was asked to shoot one of the courtroom walls with his radar to show how it worked. After looking at the readout it was found that the wall was moving at a speed of 4mph. Needless to say the Judge threw out the ticket saying.. "Case Dismissed"!
Nuvi1300WRGPS
Nuvi1300WTGPS@Gmail.com
I'm not really lost.... just temporarily misplaced!
yes
I posted this some where before. A family had a GPS on their teenage son's car. He got a ticket. The parents showed the judge the track log. Although the judge was impressed, he witheld judgement for 6 months, then dismissed the ticket when the kid received no other tickets. Judges do not want to doubt an officer's statement.
I remember reading about that.
Sometimes there is no way to win
LIDAR vs Radar
The LIDAR device that I use must be calibrated before and after the traffic stop to ensure that it is operating correctly. The speed of the targeted vehicle is superimposed on the screen I am aiming the dot through. It is also displayed on the external screen along with the measurement, in feet, of the distance the vehicle I was measuring is from the device. I can in fact pick out one car from 'the pack' but you are right....there is no recording of the vehicle measured and the speed...it ends up being my testimony. With Radar there is a +/- 1 mph error factor...not so with laser. With radar, it will pick up the lead vehicle....if you are side by side with another vehicle....you win. I can't testify which vehicle the radar measured. I like laser better, but, I have to be stationary,,,with radar I can be moving towards or away from you, or stationary. In VT we are not required to show the reading on either the laser or radar. Part of the reason is officer safety...I do not want you in the front seat of my car....sorry. If the unit was handheld, I will sometimes show the operator, depends on your demeanor. I rarely lose in Traffic Court..fyi