The End of the Dedicated GPS?

will make an a** out of him when he goes into an area without cell phone coverage. At least satellites cover the entire earth, your cell phone carrier doesn't.

The standalone unit will evolve like any single purpose device, but will it disappear - only in his dreams.

Hasn't replaced the digital camera, camcorder or Wii yet, so GPS still has a way to go. Also, we're not likely to see a pilot slap his smartphone into the console of a 747 or a supertanker anytime soon. Remember the "information appliance" that was going to be in everyone's home 15 years ago?

is that the GPS will evolve to add all the other stuff into it---we're already part way there with bluetooth-equipped ones that play mp3s after all. How will you be able to tell a GPS with a phone in it from a phone with GPS in it?

I think our current GPS systems will be around for a long long time. I personally like my auto GPS screen size, as opposed to the much smaller screen size of my cellphone. Yes, the latest and greatest phones do a bunch of things, but so does my Garmin....

The iPhone GPS seems to have better maps than my Garmins especially in Europe and the Middle East. The initial download of an area maps can be very expensive if you connect to a roaming cell site. I've found it easier and cheaper to plan ahead and down load from the internet in the hotel before exploring a new area. In my opinion, GPS on cell phone are just not as user friendly as the stand alone units.

Well I've got one of those new gizmo phones, and personally I wouldn't give up my Garmin.

The only time I use the GPS on the phone is if I happen not to have my Garmin, which is normally only when I'm out of the vehicle, plus the phone screen is too small and personally I find that the Garmin is much better at being a GPS ( Ya I know, obvious remark LOL )

Sorry to have to say this but we are not the ones who will decide the fate of standalone gps units. The people on this website are hardcore gps users and represent a fraction of the market. I'd say 2%. The other 98% of the market are casual gps users. (The percentages are just made up, but you get the point.)

The casual gps user does NOT want to lug around another electronic device. So if gps software can be perfected for a cellphone it will sell like hotcakes.

Dedicated gps devices will probably still be made, but they will be the exception rather than the rule.

The nuvi Phone seems to have cast its lot with AT&T. That still leaves a lot of users out there. While I like the idea of a Phone/GPS, given the phone companies propensity for adding service charges to your usage I think I'll stay the way it is for now.

I disagree with your proposition. The factor that will affect GPS use on phones is much more complicated than just having it available. I think AT&T is finding this out with their "free" GPS app that only incurs a recurring $10 (plus taxes and other fees) monthly charge. I won't get into network capacity and the ability of the different carriers to handle the vast amounts of data traffic needed to handle maps, messaging, web browsing, and oh voice traffic.

Others have mentioned the screen size being a factor, and of course there is the issue of spoken directions. Another factor will be battery life. It is well known that displays are power hungry and will drain a battery flat in little time. That's why cell phones shut off the display after 30 seconds or so.

Then there is the problem of coverage. While the satellite signal is nearly universal, cell service is not. It's kind of like trying to use a netbook while on the road - fine when you have wifi, a brick otherwise.

Granted, you can put 2+ gigs of memory in the cell phone to hold the maps, but what about updates? If the average life for a cell phone remains around 18 months, then updates are not a problem. But then I'm one of those anomalies - my cell phone is going 4 years old, it doesn't do email, I don't have a data plan so no web and the camera is abysmal - and as long as it makes and receives calls I see no need to replace it.

If you proposed the stand alone GPS would go away, I would tend to agree. We'll see systems as part of our vehicles rather than a cell phone plugging into a car.

Nicely put. Couldn't have put it any better.

I am not an electronic savvy, but I can see that gps stand alone is going to endure for some time to come. Gps software is increasingly more sophisticated with maps showing the actual lanes and signs on the side of the road.
Gps is free to use and has a far larger coverage area than a cellphone. Both (gps and cellphone) are in demand in today`s society. Like maps (on paper and on electronic media) have their purposes and convenience.
Each one of us have to evaluate what we like and dislike and go from there. Today you have one need and tomorrow the circumstances change, so choose what you like to use in the near future and good luck.

The "always on" nature of cell phones is the paradigm shift that will transform GPS service and functions.

While Garmin and Tom Tom s-l-o-w-l-y move towards replacing the time-worn technology of weak and limited one-way FM subchannels for data, the cell carriers already have robust two-way data communications solved. When they are able to deploy full-featured turn-by-turn units that conveniently dock in a car, they will have a popular product. They are not there yet, but they could soon.

Besides needing a robust routing engine, they need to look at addressing isues of dealing with incoming calls while routing, for example. As an advanced user, I need custom routes and custom POI capabilities, too.

There's lots of work to be done, but I would not count them out yet. Today, maybe. But tomorrow could easily see me retiring my Garmin with cell phone based system provided that they can pack the same performance in there.

My Blackberry 8830 with it's built in GPS offers no competition to my Garmins. It's interesting and better than nothing. What is truly sad is that even an engineer friend (who should know better) thinks that this is a workable solution simply because he has never used a dedicated GPS and has no idea what he is missing. These masses will think they have all they need, simply because they do not know any better.

I do know one thing - I have way too many gadgets to fiddle with when I get into the car. Between the iPod, Garmin and my Blackberry and their audio and power cables, I would give a serious look at a product that could make that simpler without having to give up any functionality. That last sentence is really the key, isn't it? I have a cell phone with GPS already. It has very little functionality compared to my Garmins. If they figure out the issues, that could easily change.

While living in Europe I had an HTC Blue Angel (a rebranded Windows Mobile-based cell phone, google for details) and I was navigating just fine.

But I wasn't using the data line to retrieve the maps - I had them on a 1-2 GB (huge back then) SD card.

I would have liked it to be a bit faster and a bit more rugged (motorcycle rainwater and vibration killed my first one) but all in all it worked.

My phone did not have a built-in GPS receiver; that was an external Bluetooth SIRF-III device that worked fairly well.

I now use my Blackberry as a backup - I have an unlimited data plan and the free Google maps app works well, albeit small screen and also too slow.

I think the ad for the Samsung "Transformers" device says it well; we will all have HD video, photos, zoom, phone, data, navigation, projector and possible toaster in a handheld device.

The future is on it's way.

I would not attribute the drop in sales of GPSrs to "smart" phone sales. I think it might be due to the economy for one, and perhaps that the majority of cars out there on the road already have a dedicated unit sitting on the dash.

As a trucker I travel the highways every day. I would have to say I see more vehicles with than without dash units. Market saturation? That could explain a slight lag in sales.

Although phones have improved over time, they still can not come close to the ease of use and accuracy of the stand alone dash unit. I know as a professional driver, I would never depend on a cell phone to get me where I needed to go.

As a trucker and GeoCacher I use my StreetPilot 7200 every day. Guess I'll have to go out and get the new Trucker friendly Nuvi 465T so that I can do my part to help bump up the sales curve.

Cudos Yank51
Garmin 885T 4 U & ME!!!
+ I have an i-Phone, but I will not part with my Garmin.

ITs going to be the other way around

The GPS unit more likely to evolve into other areas...and replace other devices.....

How many of you own Garmin Nuvis? or another brand that plays mp3s and other audio files, and has a photo browser.....SOme nuvis have bluetooth support, to be used with cell phones...and lets not forget the rumors of Garmin coming out with the "NuviPhone"....

We can bitch and moan all we want, the day of the stand alone GPSr are numbered

The trend of function convergence on appliances has been going faster and faster. Five years ago, cameras, pdas, cell phones, mp3 players, etc were separate devices. Today, smart phones combine all of these functions and more with the high end ones doing a great job of it. I expect the integrated device will come with a projected Heads Up Display for the GPS function.

Lost cell service = lost maps and directions, it doesn't matter who the carrier is.

I think that will not happen. I do think your will see more options like the TOMTOM has for mapping

Mark

I think we will see GPS functionality appearing in more devices -- as examples, providing location awareness, and also accurate time.

I think there will always be a market for the dedicated device that does maps and nav.

I'm one of those who likes separate functionality, but doesn't mind the overlap.

My kid carries a cell phone that has a camera in it, but a lot of the time he also carries a Nikon D90 -- a much better tool for the job. Hey, he's got a GPS for the camera, but all it does is put a location stamp on the images.

If my phone had GPS (plus nav plus maps), I could see using it some times, but I still like the dedicated nav device that's in one spot on the car dash, hardwired to power and an external antenna, where I don't have to worry about switching modes to do something else, then switching back again. It dows one thing, and it does it well. It doesn't need a corkscrew, scissors, multi-lingual phrasebook, or other stuff built in.

Cheers--

I have a Swiss Army Knife. It does a dozen things but none of them real well. It is handy to have them all together but there are times when I want a real screwdriver or real bottle opener. It is the same thing with GPS in a phone. I have used my iPhone as a supplement to my nüvi to check Google traffic for example but I would not want to rely on the small screen and limited functionality of its GPS.

I don't want one of these!

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/8b97/zoom/

It does everything but nothing well.

I don't understand how anyone would want to use a phone as a gps unless it had a 4" or larger screen and a phone call would not interfere with it....then you might as well have a gps.....I know somehow who has gps on there phone and say it is useless....one persons opinion of course....

That's Swiss Army's big boy...the one with every tool they make... I have 3 different ones, for different purposes....it works well for pretty much all my basic day to day stuff....not real good for, say, working on the car, but basic stuff like opening beer, unscrewing computer screws....

The big boy is just way too wide to be usefull for anything....the normal sized ones are just about the right width to be used as a handle for the screwdrivers/bottleopeners etc...

Of course, I have specialized screwdrivers too...box of jewelers size for watches etc...

has Apple ever managed to arrange for turn by turn directions on the Iphone? I hear the reason they banned that in apps was licencing issues with their map provider....they're too cheep to pay the licence fee to make the phone usefull....

I have no idea but I will stick to my GPS units.

Before receiving my TT1 recently, I had been using VZNavigator (Verizon's GPS app) on my LG Voyager for 18+ months.

In all honesty, I thought VZNav was very capable and provided me with the information I needed to get around a new city. However, VZNav does have it's shortcomings. (ALL Get-it-Now apps already feel old and dated. Slow and ugly programs!)

1. No live maps. You have to set a destination to see a live moving map. Otherwise, you get stuck with having to have the phone refresh the whole image every few seconds...which totally blows.
2. No POI's can be turned on to be displayed while cruising around.
3. Very limited battery. If you're on a 4-5 hour road trip, you have to manage the battery on the long streches by turning it off and back on again. My battery lasted me 2-3 hours TOPS on a full charge.
4. The search function is not fun. If you type in a search for "Golf Driving ranges" you'd pull up golf courses, driving schools, and shooting ranges amongst the search results.Not so bad, but if you can only see like 10-15 results at a time, you have to wait a few seconds for the next page of results to pop up.
5. Everything you see on the screen has to be transmitted to the phone and network lag or even poor reception make the app feel laggy. If you miss a street while driving in a big city, it may take long to recalculate and you've already passed the street it was trying to tell you to turn onto. So, it begins to recalculate again and... a freaking nightmare sometimes.
6. $10 a month. after nearly 2 years, I could have just saved the cash and bought myself a nice stand alone unit.
7. Receiving a call or text while in the middle of complicated driving directions can suck...a lot! It's the only time that the damn phone actually multi-tasks, but it is really annoying.

Don't get me wrong. 90+% of the time, VZNav works and works well. VZ has a good network and coverage is excellent, but since having a standalone unit, I've realized that stand-alones are more capable and way more cost-effective.

That said, if you look at the trends around the world, everything is getting smaller in size, but gaining way more functions.

Who would have thought laptops would replace the desktop? Desktops are nearly obsolete, while laptops are smaller and more powerful than ever. Even cellphones in Asia and Europe have 5+ megapixel cameras and satellite TV. People want to carry less and do more. IMHO, cellphones will continue to replace more and more gadgets as the technology evolves. Eventually, the cellphone will replace the mp3 player, camera, gps, computers, and maybe even cash/credit cards (Japanese already do this).TomTom for iPhone may be a turning point for the smartphone gps unit. Once the problem of battery life is solved who knows what future phones will be capable of?

How many times have you heard that a person left their GPSr in the car and it was stolen. Who wants to carry a seperate cellphone, mp3 player, camera, and GPSr? Do you really have that much pocket space? You'll never forget to take the GPS-enabled phone with you since, you need it for everything else.

As long as there are "boots on the ground" in the known and unknown places throughout the globe, GPS will survive long after we've arrived at our final Lat/Long

The Garmin Rino is widely used by many military personnel and those that don't have one are quick to write home that mom and pop should buy one and send it to them ASAP!!

Smartphones may be ok in the city/urban areas but the GPS is global. Maybe we'll see video apps on future Garmin nuvi's? Whoo-hooo I'll start skipping the bag of chips and coke at lunch time and start saving for one of those now.... Just in case Garmin decides to fill a vacant GPS niche. Be cool to sit and watch Two and Half Men in the truck while the other half is shopping.

This link was posted on a thread a few days ago and shows that Tom Tom is out front when it comes to phone/GPS intergration. This is the way Garmin should be going instead of the Nuviphone

http://iphone.tomtom.com/

i have the Iphone 3G with a GPS - works real well , but no voice direction. i use it to find addresses or nearby stores / restaurants and then input the address into my garmin. i can't imagine having my iphone secured to the window as well ( boy those maps are small and to have to keep enlarging them while driving - no thanks i'll rack my car) Garmin GPS rules

Cell phone GPS's are attractive no doubt, However users are going to come back to standalone GPS receivers when they find themselves paying a monthly fee just to see a map. And then when they are on a road, lets say in the middle of the Great Smokey Mountains somewhere and there is absolutely no cell service then what, I guess you would have to reach for your trusty GPSr (make of your choice).

Cell phones may someday be able to take the duty over, but not today or the foreseeable future.

The article reminds me of several of my friends who went ahead and got the iPhone in place of the gps unit. They're still not using it as they have hoped. Still love my garmin.

come down for some of the smartphone plansand the apps, I will stick with my GPS

The article alludes to one major point, there are many companies that charge an extra subscription for the use of the GPS application and the is the airtime used along with the data megabytes received that will cause extra charges unless you subscribe to one of the more expensive plans that include the data transmission in the package.
These are all fine for the corporate user, the high end user, but what about the average traveller that does not wish to spend all that extra money a month for the extra services?
Another detrimental point is that many states are passing laws that prohibit the use of cell phones while operating the vehicle unless it is in the hands free mode, this means that all the smart phones would have to limit the GPS function to the hands free mode only or the user could be ticketed.

I've been hearing that netbooks and smartphones will replace laptop computers. I suppose that's possible, when people can squint into the small screen and thumb-tapping becomes a standard data-entry method.

But looking at some of the younger people on a standard keyboard, touch-typing seem to have become a lost art. Thumb-tap may be just as fast as hunt-and-pick with only their index fingers.

I quit predicting futures.

Don’t know how these folks could be characterized as “luddites,” at least with respect to GPSr and maybe even technology in general. From what I’ve learned from some of the posters here, they may actually represent the 2%ers, or power users of all GPSrs. After all, non-readers, and certainly non-posters would probably just use their GPSrs straight out of the box, never dreaming up some of the hacks I’ve read here. So if many of these posters have the opinion that dedicated GPSrs will be here to stay for the foreseeable future, I’ll give their prognostications as much consideration as the others who see the demise of the GPSr just around the corner.

Even if I can see that the dedicated GPSr may go the way of the typewriter, I think what’s arguable is the when. Is soon in the next 5 years? 10 years? Even if it is only 5 years, that’s enough for me to want to have a dedicated GPSr—carrying around the extra weight and device—until then and beyond. My dedication to the dedicated GPSr is due to reliability. First, the GPS system will continue to be functional (recent articles about its upkeep aside). Second, my maps are preloaded in—I’ve got the maps in my “hand” so to speak. With that combination I will have what, 90-95-99% of all potential routings available to me at any time? New roads will mean more alternatives that my GPSr doesn’t know about, but that is not a deduction from my choices. Closed roads represent a problem in the sense that my suggested route isn’t logical, but most likely I’ll at least be able to have it recalculate a usable alternative.

As for current cellphone navigation, while I have tested it on my smartphone, and it hasn’t failed in a couple of tries, I wonder what would happen if in the middle of my route, it dropped the signal. Would it know to automatically re-connect and recalculate my route when it reacquires the cell signal? And if not, what will that mean to safety as I try to punch the (very) small buttons to reset it?

Even when cell service will be improved in the future, as it surely will, I’ll still only have the tiny 2.5” (or maybe 3.5” of the iPhone?) phone screen to look at. Even the small GPSr screens are 3.5” and they’re probably out of favor for the 4.3” widescreens (which I have). So I may be in the minority, but I’m happy that Garmin is introducing a 5” diagonal screen unit because at some point the form factor is the biggest consideration for usability. In other words, if you can’t read the screen because it’s so small, you probably aren’t going to use it; or at least you won’t enjoy using it.

As a former industrial engineer interested in (and at that time paid for it) the quality of the man-machine interface, it has always amazed me how we will put up with having to adapt to the machine, rather than the machines being adapted to us. In this case, going smaller to a cellphone rather than bigger to the GPSr screen size seems like adapting to the machine. Maybe cellphones of the future should be produced in the GPSr form factor size instead as a compromise?

Maybe you are right, but the evolution of the gps software will bring other forms to display on a new more advance hardware.
Technology is evolving and different models will appear, and who knows if the stand alone gps has a chance of enduring any longer into the future.

VHS vs BETA that battle we know who won. Plasma tv vs LCD still in the air. Now we have blue-ray to sort and the gps trough that in a pile also.