EDITORIAL: Toss your ticket Washington Times
Wed, 07/01/2009 - 7:16am
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 17 years
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Red-light cameras are making their return to Virginia. Don't believe the propaganda that this has anything to do with safety - it's all about money.
Fortunately, there is some good news for motorists who might receive a ticket in the mail after toodling through Old Town. As The Washington Times reported four years ago, state law says a private company may not simply drop a ticket in a mailbox, and expect it to be considered valid service. Unless a driver receives a hand-delivered copy, the citation can be thrown away without consequence. Depriving Alexandria and its revenue-collecting partner of cash is the surest way to ensure this unsafe program disappears for good.
Interesting Article
Something tells me that if enough people discover this loophole the law will be changed.
I think these cameras are unfortunately here to stay. The profit generating opportunities are too much to pass up (especially when municipalities are getting squeezed in other areas due to property tax declines, foreclosures, less spending, etc.)
Double Tap wrote: Red-light
Red-light cameras are making their return to Virginia. Don't believe the propaganda that this has anything to do with safety - it's all about money.
http://tinyurl.com/mekwyl
Fortunately, there is some good news for motorists who might receive a ticket in the mail after toodling through Old Town. As The Washington Times reported four years ago, state law says a private company may not simply drop a ticket in a mailbox, and expect it to be considered valid service. Unless a driver receives a hand-delivered copy, the citation can be thrown away without consequence. Depriving Alexandria and its revenue-collecting partner of cash is the surest way to ensure this unsafe program disappears for good.
You maybe right but if you simple ignore the ticket, isn't there late penalties that they will add to your tickets.
Again, if it's not hand
Again, if it's not hand delivered by a police officer or a sheriff's deputy, it's not valid and you can ignore it. A not valid ticket cannot accrue penalties or interest.
Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267
Red Light Cameras
The red light cameras get allot of bad publicity but from what I see they are out to catch those that still like to take that chance and run the red light instead of waiting a couple of minutes. Sure there will be controversy about anything now days. It seems to me the ones that complain the most are those that get caught or have no regard for the safety of others racing through the intersection. I have not heard of one accident attributed to a red light camera but hear of many accidents due to people running red lights. To me it is very simple, don't try and beat the light to save a few minutes....I say quit complaining, obey the law, don't run the red lights and you will not have a problem or have to worry about it.
Bobby....Garmin 2450LM
Red Light Cameras
The red light cameras get allot of bad publicity but from what I see they are out to catch those that still like to take that chance and run the red light instead of waiting a couple of minutes. Sure there will be controversy about anything now days. It seems to me the ones that complain the most are those that get caught or have no regard for the safety of others racing through the intersection. I have not heard of one accident attributed to a red light camera but hear of many accidents due to people running red lights. To me it is very simple, don't try and beat the light to save a few minutes....I say quit complaining, obey the law, don't run the red lights and you will not have a problem or have to worry about it.
I beg to differ:
First off I have not had a ticket in over 50 years of driving.
Next up is the violation of the evidence code that these cameras bring. Remember that if you're willing to give up a little freedom for security, soon you will have neither.
Next up is the misnomer that these cameras are for safety enforcement. There are lies, Damm lies, and statistics (Mark Twain). Nowhere is there a scientific study that shows these cameras reduce accidents. It's all about the money.
If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there.
reference
Do you have a reference for the Virginia law that states it must be delivered by a police officer? I wouldn't depend on just what Washington Post says especially since they reference a statement they made four years ago. Laws can change a lot in that time. If you have a clean driving record a judge is usually willing to dismiss the case on the condition you get no more tickets in the next year. Going to court is probably better than throwing it away.
do they deliver?
Do they deliver to Maryland?
Red Light Cameras
The red light cameras get allot of bad publicity but from what I see they are out to catch those that still like to take that chance and run the red light instead of waiting a couple of minutes. Sure there will be controversy about anything now days. It seems to me the ones that complain the most are those that get caught or have no regard for the safety of others racing through the intersection. I have not heard of one accident attributed to a red light camera but hear of many accidents due to people running red lights. To me it is very simple, don't try and beat the light to save a few minutes....I say quit complaining, obey the law, don't run the red lights and you will not have a problem or have to worry about it.
I beg to differ:
First off I have not had a ticket in over 50 years of driving.
Next up is the violation of the evidence code that these cameras bring. Remember that if you're willing to give up a little freedom for security, soon you will have neither.
Next up is the misnomer that these cameras are for safety enforcement. There are lies, Damm lies, and statistics (Mark Twain). Nowhere is there a scientific study that shows these cameras reduce accidents. It's all about the money.
Why don't you go to this website posted in January of 2009....you may change your mind although it sounds like you are not the type to be swayed. You should do a little more research before making wild comments as there are many sites identifying the results of installed red light cameras..
http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/rlr.html
Bobby....Garmin 2450LM
Interesting links, though I
Interesting links, though I tend to agree that they're more of a revenue stream than a safety item, at least in their current form...
Read
Interesting links, though I tend to agree that they're more of a revenue stream than a safety item, at least in their current form...
Did you review all the questions and answers? I think they should double the fine from the current rates for running a red light...So what if they generate revenue from those that run the lights. I think caught twice and you lose your license may be an appropriate deterrent. Those intersections have signs warning of the cameras and people pay no attention so I don't feel sorry for them one bit if they get caught.
Bobby....Garmin 2450LM
State law
Is this just Washington State or other states have similar provision?
Jeff
Question
Is this just Washington State or other states have similar provision?
Jeff
What is the question?
Bobby....Garmin 2450LM
Code of Virginia
Do you have a reference for the Virginia law that states it must be delivered by a police officer? I wouldn't depend on just what Washington Post says especially since they reference a statement they made four years ago. Laws can change a lot in that time. If you have a clean driving record a judge is usually willing to dismiss the case on the condition you get no more tickets in the next year. Going to court is probably better than throwing it away.
Google Code of Virginia and it will be somewhere in the 46.2 chapter. Or once in the code of VA, it will be searchable. Search on Red Light Cameras or Traffic Cameras.
Frank DriveSmart55 37.322760, -79.511267
Why don't you go to this website posted in January of 2009
Both organizations behind this site(s) are wholly supported by auto insurers.
At least some of their studies relied upon are meta studies which are favored by people/groups trying to make the results fit their agenda or desired outcome. They just keep playing with the criteria until they get the desired results.
What they should have to do to install these cameras is have a national mandatory set time of the yellow light. Say 10 seconds and a timer must be installed in every direction showing all drivers how much time is left.
If the intersection is in need of enforcement that bad a good traffic cop can write $3k a day in tickets easily, which more than pays the officers
wages, makes a profit for the city/county and makes the intersection safer, if that really is the goal.
Web Site
Good argument & articulately stated.
Fred
didn't find it specifically in the code but
I did find this article "AN EVALUATION OF RED LIGHT CAMERA (PHOTO-RED) ENFORCEMENT PROGRAMS IN VIRGINIA: A REPORT IN RESPONSE TO A REQUEST BY VIRGINIA’S SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION" http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/05-vdot.pdf This from page 17 seems to cover what Washington Post stated:
The one surviving legal worry actually turns out to be a practical problem, generated by the interaction of the notice provisions in the enabling statute and the Commonwealth’s other service requirements. Because the mere mailing of a ticket without personal service by a law enforcement officer does not constitute sufficient notice under the statute’s own terms, successful enforcement may require personal in-hand service if the accused fails to either pay the penalty or come to court. Although the statute permits the jurisdiction to make the initial attempt to summon the accused to court via mail, if the person fails to respond, he or she is not considered to have been satisfactorily served with notice. However, personal service on all violators is obviously a very expensive proposition, involving many personnel hours, and would defeat one of the primary motivating factors for employing automated detection systems in the first place—a reduction in the number of officers required to enforce red light laws. Thus, unless a jurisdiction is willing to devote resources to implementing extensive in-hand service, citations mailed for red light camera violations become essentially unenforceable. The average citizen is probably not aware of this loophole, but if word were widely disseminated, such knowledge could completely undermine the effectiveness of red light camera programs, as citations issued to violators would lose their practical impact. Again, this is a practical, but not legal, challenge.
This was 4 years old also, it might still be up to date. So you can throw it away, but the city can still serve the warrant in person if you fail to appear.
Set The Yellow Time!!
What they should have to do to install these cameras is have a national mandatory set time of the yellow light. Say 10 seconds and a timer must be installed in every direction showing all drivers how much time is left.
I would have no problem with red light cameras if this was done. The yellow is were they turn from safety devices into revenue devices.
In the Chicago area, I have seen yellows running from 1 second to 6 seconds. In the city, they are no longer than 3 seconds.
Nuvi 2595 & 760 | http://www.chucksphotospot.com
I totally agree.
What they should have to do to install these cameras is have a national mandatory set time of the yellow light. Say 10 seconds and a timer must be installed in every direction showing all drivers how much time is left.
I would have no problem with red light cameras if this was done. The yellow is were they turn from safety devices into revenue devices.
In the Chicago area, I have seen yellows running from 1 second to 6 seconds. In the city, they are no longer than 3 seconds.
That would be the way to do it to increase safety.
A safer way to handle this
A safer way to handle this would be to get rid of the yellow and just have green and red. You just automate the light so that the cross traffic does not get a green for a designated amount of time after the change to red for the other traffic.
Nuvi 3790LMT, Nuvi 760 Lifetime map, Lifetime NavTraffic, Garmin E-Trex Legend Just because "Everyone" drives badly does not mean you have to.
Years ago, back when dirt was new...
A safer way to handle this would be to get rid of the yellow and just have green and red. You just automate the light so that the cross traffic does not get a green for a designated amount of time after the change to red for the other traffic.
NYC used to have signals with only red and green lights. The red light would come on toward the end of the green cycle to act as a yellow does now.
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