2010.11 map "update" a step backwards.

 

This, from a discuss list I'm on:

"The current map update for North America, NT 2009.11, drops/deletes many, many small towns...many of the little towns, that frequently are attractions, are gone...As a test I searched for a ghost town outside Parker, Az. that I'm familiar with, Swansea. I have used Swansea as a test in several GPS units and software packages, it's the kind of place I want to go to. It was there in the earlier map, gone in the new version..."

and, no surprise...

"Email to Garmin support produced useless and disappointing responses...I was unable to get any response from the cartography department at Garmin even though they post their email address on the support site."

"I finally got some help through a user forum and the moderator of that forum that happens to be a Garmin dealer and had the right contacts. In the conversations that took place apparently Garmin acknowledged that they had deleted many, many small towns from the map, supposedly those with zero population. They did this to improve searches by getting rid of duplicate town names. I've found one specific example of this, the search on on town name yields about 10 or 12 entries across the whole country in the old software, only four in the new."

What?

What is this ... another troll post?

Are you the same Mikes that posted the very same comment over on another website ... but said in the post you were complaining about the 2010.11 map update. (2010.11 there ... 2009.11 here).

I suppose I could rationalize that it was a typo ... but I don't know why in the world you (assuming you are the same Mikes that posted the very same comment about an older Garmin map.

And what is with this "This from a discussion list I'm on."

What in the world does that mean? And why in the world should that impress us or lend credence to this rather bizarre comment?

As I said ... this smells of a troll ... particularly since a Mikes posted the very same comment over on another website ... including the opening line "this from a discussion list I'm on."

What in the world did you hope to accomplish by posting this?

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Garmin 205, 260W, 1450LMT, 2460LMT, HEREwego for iPhone ... all still mapping strong.

Same title

You even used the exact same title on the other website about being a "step backwards" ... except there you titled it for a different year.

This stinks.

Why would you post the same complaint ... different websites ... and cite a different year?

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Garmin 205, 260W, 1450LMT, 2460LMT, HEREwego for iPhone ... all still mapping strong.

.

Frequent readers of this forum will know that I'm a vocal critic of certain Garmin practices and procedures. With that said, I'm actually happy that Garmin & Navteq are cleaning up outdated map data. If towns no longer exist they should not be on the maps. Simple as that.

If someone wants to create a custom POI file for ghost towns then by all means do so.

Hey, CB

If you don't know what a discussion list is (hint: it's not a web forum), and you want to trade ad hominem attacks, then FU, since you very obviously have nothing apropos to add to the discussion.

now,now

PLAY NICE KIDDIES

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Everyday is a GREAT day :)

I fixed...

the error (I typed 2009, instead of 2010). Pretty lame thing to pick on, even for fanboys.

Thanks for this advice

werskine wrote:

PLAY NICE KIDDIES

Comments and counter-comments are getting "angrier" by the day on the forum, maybe in bits. It seems that it is now very unwelcome to voice opinion that is not "mainstream" on the site. I just happen to see many posts that are quite critical of anything that does not speak well of Garmin. And language on all sides needs to be civil. Please.

If Garmin deserves a Blast they get one.

bak276 wrote:
werskine wrote:

PLAY NICE KIDDIES

Comments and counter-comments are getting "angrier" by the day on the forum, maybe in bits. It seems that it is now very unwelcome to voice opinion that is not "mainstream" on the site. I just happen to see many posts that are quite critical of anything that does not speak well of Garmin. And language on all sides needs to be civil. Please.

I speak my mind, and I have the skin to stand up to the flames, however with that said Name calling (toll) and swearing (FU) have no place here. So please take that stuff where it is appreciated.

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

Nope

BAK276>>It seems that it is now very unwelcome to voice opinion that is not "mainstream" on the site.

Correct me if I am wrong ... but isn't the purpose of this website to facilitate the construction and use of POI files?

Now, I realize the forum would become a dull place if all we did was respond to questions about "I can't find my POI files" or "Why don't my icons display." So certainly other topics should be allowed ... particularly those that help folks get more enjoyment out of their GPS's or help someone trouble shoot a problem.

But I, for one, don't log onto POI Factory to read
someone's "opinion" (often uninformed) about how bad one particular GPS manufacturer is.

It's the old Chevy vs Ford argument.

I do question the intend of this OP's post. He posted the exact same comment over on another GPS website, word for word, except for different Mapset year (2010 vs 2009).

Interestly enough, the webmaster eventually closed the Mikes thread with the following comment: "When you start saying things like "you lose" then I know this conversation is never going to have a positive outcome and you're not really interested in discussing the issue"

I sincerely believe that the sole intent of some posters is to bad-mouth Garmin ... not to "discuss" a particularly problem or feature ... but just to scare folks away from buying a Garmin.

So, yes, that makes me angry. They aren't willing to rationally discuss an issue. They are just trying to pollute the WWW waters with some negative comments that will appear when someone googles a topic.

These broad-brush, often uninformed, negative comments serve no purpose on what used to be an enjoyable website, dedicated to the use and collection of POI files.

The moderators need to get this sort of stuff under control ... and get it under control ASAP ... to keep this website from swirling down the toilet.

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Garmin 205, 260W, 1450LMT, 2460LMT, HEREwego for iPhone ... all still mapping strong.

.

I have no desire to get involved in the rants here, but I had contacts with Garmin about this issue. Just as Mike s said, Garmin removed all locale points that have no population associated with it. They did this because some people drove to the wrong location because it existed twice. E.g. Grand Rapids, MI. There are actually two.
It seems that Garmin completely overreacted with this and removed all these locale points from the map. Not sure if they would put those back in if enough people would complain. It apparently worked for the few "morons" that complaint about it after blindly relying on their GPS to much without checking.

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Garmin Zumo550

There are some

f1fan wrote:

I have no desire to get involved in the rants here, but I had contacts with Garmin about this issue. Just as Mike s said, Garmin removed all locale points that have no population associated with it. They did this because some people drove to the wrong location because it existed twice. E.g. Grand Rapids, MI. There are actually two.
It seems that Garmin completely overreacted with this and removed all these locale points from the map. Not sure if they would put those back in if enough people would complain. It apparently worked for the few "morons" that complaint about it after blindly relying on their GPS to much without checking.

There are some users that want to use every bit of technology to the limits of the device. And then there are those that use a device and its features with the intent of making their jobs easier. Still others, and probably the great majority, do not make changes to the device or do much more than turn it on and let it "do its thing."

The problem for Garmin and other manufacturers is where do you draw the line? What do you include and what do you leave out? If there were specialty units made for those that want to explore and find all the little ghost towns, hit the back trails and visit dirt tracks through the wilderness, then the average consumer unit wouldn't be capable of providing much satisfaction. But, would they be willing to pay the price for keeping the databases and coding efforts necessary to plot all those routes and location? More than likely the complaint would be "I can't see paying that much for a unit that does that. Maybe I can get this cheaper one to do that if I play with it."

Then they have nothing better to do than to complain when their comprise unit doesn't meet their expectations. There is no pleasing these people. They made a choice, and they want everyone to know they found something wrong with the unit they chose.

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ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

Good Info

Personally, I found Mikes' post informative. It's good to be aware of changes in the map updates, and in this case, why the change was made. And I have no problem with his posting the same comments on other sites. Since this one is the only GPS site I visit, I would have missed the info had he not posted it here.

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Tuckahoe Mike - Nuvi 3490LMT, Nuvi 260W, iPhone X, Mazda MX-5 Nav

Thankful

I'm just thankful that the maps have towns and locations that are current--I guess I'm not TOO picky...

Perhaps there is a history

Perhaps there is a history with Mike S that I do not know, but this posting alone to me is nothing more than informative. And I will add someone else posted a similar finding in Texas on one of these forums/sites.
I am actually surprised to find they are actually deleting towns, even if no population. I could see them being a destination for someone for various reasons, or just landmarks.

The 765T is a great unit overall, but I am beginning to feel Garmin is deciding too much for me. POI's not showing in 3D mode, or having to zoom down to 200 to see them, taking away towns that still exist, showing less detail on maps,all start to add up. That doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a Garmin again, there are some very good features also, but it does mean I will look harder next time before I buy.

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Nuvi 765T, Street Pilot I5, Nuvi 750, Nuvi 3570

.

tampa8 wrote:

The 765T is a great unit overall, but I am beginning to feel Garmin is deciding too much for me. POI's not showing in 3D mode, or having to zoom down to 200 to see them, taking away towns that still exist, showing less detail on maps,all start to add up.

Oh my lord! Tampa8 is starting to see the light!!

Seriously though, this is what a lot of us "naysayers" have been complaining about for a while. Eventually more and more people will realize what Garmin is doing and voice their complaints. And hopefully Garmin will listen.

(No subject)

smile

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Nuvi 765T, Street Pilot I5, Nuvi 750, Nuvi 3570

cb whats?

cbwatts wrote:

BAK276>>Correct me if I am wrong ... but isn't the purpose of this website to facilitate the construction and use of POI files?...
But I, for one, don't log onto POI Factory to read
someone's "opinion"

You're wrong. Check the forums. There are ones specific to POI files, and this isn't one. Furthermore, my post was fact, not opinion.

Quote:

I do question the intend of this OP's post. He posted the exact same comment over on another GPS website, word for word, except for different Mapset year (2010 vs 2009).

Let it go, fanboi. That was a simple mistyping, which I've corrected. I was made aware of the issue, which affected someone else negatively, and happen to agree. Garmin removed useful information from the maps, without any notice or warning.

Quote:

I sincerely believe that the sole intent of some posters is to bad-mouth Garmin ... not to "discuss" a particularly problem or feature ... but just to scare folks away from buying a Garmin.

Is your job at Garmin in jeopardy? I can't imagine that a paid forum poster gets paid that much.

You have said nothing in regard the issue itself, only complained that someone is being critical of Garmin. I have no idea whether other brands are better or worse than Garmin in relation to this issue.

wow!! didn't realize that i

wow!! didn't realize that i was into such a volatile site. i thought if something would be erased from my unit by the manufacturer i could come here and find and recreate it? yes? no? if so what's the big deal? all manufacturers need to add new info but maintain user memory for old as well as new units they produce to satisfy current users. myself, i'm interested in reading everybody's views regardless of old or new to learn more about gps and bashing any manufacturer never even entered my mind.

Harsh Comments

I have been away a while and have missed quite a bit of posts. However this is the first time I have seen a thread where a person is actively attacked for posting some information.

Let's all play nice.

Mike_S thanks for the information. That was something I was not aware of.

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Garmin Nuvi 2699 with 2017.30 Maps

Heightened Sensitivity

I agree we all need to relax a bit more but if you've been following some recent threads, there has been a lot of negativity spewed; Which I think is the reason there may be a little heightened sensitivity for users that participated in those threads.
Thank you for posting this information Mike_S, please do not be deterred from posting again. We are a very good community whose main aim is to help each other. Occasionally we will touch someone's sore spot which is natural in a community this large.

Opinions

There are many threads on this website that began with someone's opinion of a map, firmware upgrade, etc. I, personally, am interested in this type of information because it has, on occasion, kept me from making a purchase that I may have been disappointed with. I have been close to upgrading my maps to the 2010 version. I'm going to think a bit more about it now. Thanks, Mike.

2010 maps

I installed the new 2010 map and have no problems. Many new POI's that weren't there before. Just because someone thinks a product is bad doesn't make the product bad for everyone. I guess it depends if you do ghost towns or not. There is no way the maps can have the absolute current status when they are released. If something is missing that you want, go to google maps and if it is there download it to your unit. Get hold of yourselves and if you want the 2010 map get it and quit arguing about.

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Bobby....Garmin 2450LM

An Example

An example in Kansas I ran into. Fort Dodge. It is an old military fort, with the state cemetary. There is a post office and several (I would guess < 100) people live there. But my problem was that the facility I was to work at has a fort dodge address, but the gps doesn't list fort dodge as a valid city/town. I was using ~2008 or so maps. In my testing then most non incorporated areas are not in the gps, even if they had a post office still.

Daniel

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Garmin StreetPilot c580 & Nuvi 760 - Member 32160 - Traveling in Kansas

Info

Thanks for the info, seems like a statement of fact, and offense being taken for being called a troll.

It would be a shame...

I agree we don't want this forum to become like so many others and have page after page of negative back and forth comments, very unproductive.
I also found the info interesting, as long as information (any) is factual, it can only improve our knowledge and therefore be helpful.

Paper Maps

Those that constantly complain about the Garmin maps should throw away or sell their units and go back to paper maps....do you think every unincorporated place is on paper maps??? I have had my unit for over a year and haven't found an address or town not available. And we go to some strange areas for birding including mountain dirt roads. It even has Forest Service Roads in the maps.

Quit complaining, get over it and accept what you get. If you are not happy with the maps don't buy them.. Seems pretty simple to me..

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Bobby....Garmin 2450LM

alternative option

Rather than complain about missing items, get a unit with a SD card slot and load the maps to a SD card instead of the units storage, or backup the old maps to the SD card and load the new maps on the unit itself. That way you can choose to display both the 2008 and the 2010 maps (or 2009, 2011, etc...) and have the best of both worlds... or if you think something is missing from 2010, switch back to the 2008 map, it takes a few seconds in most units.
I recently got a 2GB SD card ($6) for my c330 and it is loading the new 2010 maps to the SD card right now (57% complete and 18 minutes remaining).

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Garmin c330 w/ 2011 maps

Ghost Town POI...........

Add the Ghost town here............

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/18687

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Bob G. Nuvi 750

Removing small towns and

Removing small towns and such is counter-productive to the premise behind address search!

DROID Doesn't do this, and it's a Garmin GPS...

So why neuter your own product???

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A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

you can only put

JanJ wrote:

Removing small towns and such is counter-productive to the premise behind address search!

DROID Doesn't do this, and it's a Garmin GPS...

So why neuter your own product???

You can only put so much into a 5 lb bag. If you want more junction views, lane assists, built-in POI and the other toys, something has to go. The Droid hasn't run into this problem because it doesn't have the data stored internally like your GPS. If you started storing maps and the data to go with them in the droid, you couldn't store music, photos, messages ... and the list goes on.

Understand - the droid doesn't store map data - it downloads it from a server that has trillions of bytes of storage available. If your GPS were connected to the same databases and you paid the hefty monthly data fees you have to pay on Verizon then your GPS would be every bit as good at finding all the little out-of-the-way towns as you see on the droid.

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Illiterate? Write for free help.

would have been better to have a more accurate thread header

Probably would have been better to have a more accurate thread header describing the actual point of this thread posting. It would have drawn far fewer negative response's unless that was what they were looking for.

Instead of using:

"2010.11 map "update" a step backwards"

If they had used:

2010.11 map "update" removed many ghost & small towns

There are a lot of people on this forum, including myself, who could care less about having thousands of listed ghost towns slowing down the search function. They could just load the custom ghost town POI if they wanted them.

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/18687

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GM Built-in Navigation system - Samsung S6 Edge+ Smartphone with Garmin Viago, Google Maps & HERE Apps

Old thread

Considering that this is an old thread from 2009 regarding a map version that is over a year old, I am not sure how useful it is to resurrect the discussion that has been dormant for 14 months. It might make more sense to start a new thread that is current and on point.

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Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

Particularly

Particularly since the member that resurrected this thread already opened one on the same issue:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/29655

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Nuvi 350, 760, 1695LM, 3790LMT, 2460LMT, 3597LMTHD, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, DriveSmart 61, Garmin Backup Camera 40 and TomTom XXL540s.

Recent Garmin Reply

Yep, just got a disappointing e-mail response from Garmin customer support when I asked about this. Specifically, they wrote "On some versions of mapping the small towns may not show as they did on the oler (sic) devices". Yes, I am aware of that.

This "lack of cities" issue just came up for me when I upgraded my nuvi 350 (with 2009 map) to a nuvi 1300 with 2012.10 map. If this is an issue for enough people, perhaps Garmin could offer an alternative map version that has all the cities/towns included. They've got maps for everything else (terrain, lakes, equestrian trails), yet this would not even require creating a whole new map type - just offer the existing City Navigator North America NT map without the city filtering they've done. Mainstream customers who could care less would not be affected.

Anyone have anything new on this issue?