Time-of-day satellite reception changes in the house

 

I've been watching the satellite page on the Nuvi 880 while it is mounted in a north-facing window of my home. (I used to watch Windows defrag details too...)

Without moving the mount or the orientation of the unit, it ranges from 10 feet in the morning (EDT) to 15 feet by noon and then late at night (2am or so) it goes up to almost 30 feet. For all I know it goes further off the mark than that while I am sleeping.

When I carry the unit to the car, even before it is setup on its spot forward on the console by the ashtray, it is down to 10 feet.

We are on the side of a 700 foot hill which has 400 feet of its height above us to the northeast. Could that make a difference at night? Is there any difference in satellite coverage of the northeastern states that would account for this?

The 880 antenna is a builtin, not flipout.

--
"Making tracks..." {:)-<=| Nuvi 880

birds are spread evenly

The constellation of satellites is constantly on the move and your house will have a different amount of satellites overhead throughout the day and night, in your car you have depending on terrain a wider view of the horizon and that will account for the higher accuracy.

--
Garmin 38 - Magellan Gold - Garmin Yellow eTrex - Nuvi 260 - Nuvi 2460LMT - Google Nexus 7 - Toyota Entune NAV

Variations...

Gee, a variation on the order of tens of meters sounds pretty good, considering the GPS birds are orbiting at about 20km!

On a more serious note, a large source of error is still due to distortions of the GPS signal as it passes through the atmosphere (particularly the ionosphere) -- on the order of plus or minus 5 meters. Depending on time of day, your GPS receiver is going to be listening to signals coming through vastly different parts of the atmosphere, for example, some still in sunlight, some in darkness, different humidity levels, all introducing variation.

Military GPS boxes, and very expensive civilian boxes (such as those used in surveying) use multiple GPS frequencies to estimate and correct for these disturbances. Newer GPS birds add a second civilian frequency, so over time, this will be possible for normal people as well, most likely taking things to a meter or so accuracy easily.

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Nuvi 2460, 680, DATUM Tymserve 2100, Trimble Thunderbolt, Ham radio, Macintosh, Linux, Windows

What about WAAS-enabled?

k6rtm wrote:

Gee, a variation on the order of tens of meters sounds pretty good, considering the GPS birds are orbiting at about 20km!

On a more serious note, a large source of error is still due to distortions of the GPS signal as it passes through the atmosphere (particularly the ionosphere) -- on the order of plus or minus 5 meters. Depending on time of day, your GPS receiver is going to be listening to signals coming through vastly different parts of the atmosphere, for example, some still in sunlight, some in darkness, different humidity levels, all introducing variation.

Military GPS boxes, and very expensive civilian boxes (such as those used in surveying) use multiple GPS frequencies to estimate and correct for these disturbances. Newer GPS birds add a second civilian frequency, so over time, this will be possible for normal people as well, most likely taking things to a meter or so accuracy easily.

I thank you and Flaco for taking the time to respond. How does the WAAS-enabling come about? Is it in every new GPS these days? Would my 880 have that feature builtin?

--
"Making tracks..." {:)-<=| Nuvi 880

Wikipedia is your friend...

Once again, Wikipedia is your friend -- they have very good introductory articles on GPS, and on WAAS. (Don't let the math scare you!)

A lot of the Nuvis have WAAS capability, including your 880 (and my 660), but you have to enable it, at least on the 660. Once enabled, look at your satellite status page, and if you see a bird with a number > 31, that's a WAAS signal.

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Nuvi 2460, 680, DATUM Tymserve 2100, Trimble Thunderbolt, Ham radio, Macintosh, Linux, Windows

WAAS

babago wrote:

[How does the WAAS-enabling come about? Is it in every new GPS these days? Would my 880 have that feature builtin?

babago, as k6rtm says Wikipedia is your friend indeed. Also you can check out this thread for more WAAS and satellite screen minutiae:
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/13345
...it also contains a link to a web page that has a real-time screen that is every bit as interesting as the Windows defrag screen (which I used to watch, too) wink

--
Nüvi 2595LMT

YES!!! Bird #32 is flying at my house!!!

k6rtm wrote:

Once again, Wikipedia is your friend -- they have very good introductory articles on GPS, and on WAAS. (Don't let the math scare you!)

A lot of the Nuvis have WAAS capability, including your 880 (and my 660), but you have to enable it, at least on the 660. Once enabled, look at your satellite status page, and if you see a bird with a number > 31, that's a WAAS signal.

Thanks for that information. So since I have #32 flying my friendly skies, the WAAS must be enabled with no help from me. Thank HEAVEN.....

However, I have no apparent reception but #32 is listed as one of my satellites. What is that little round red object, smaller than the numbered satellites, which goes around the outer perimeter really fast? This little guy doesn't have a number.
I swear he just changed from counter-clock to clockwise rotation!!! Yes, he did change directions.

Honest, I haven't had a THING to drink.

--
"Making tracks..." {:)-<=| Nuvi 880

Dot

babago wrote:

What is that little round red object, smaller than the numbered satellites, which goes around the outer perimeter really fast? This little guy doesn't have a number.
I swear he just changed from counter-clock to clockwise rotation!!! Yes, he did change directions.

Stand still. grin That is the last direction of your movement that was detected.

--
Nuvi 660 -- and not upgrading it or maps until Garmin fixes long-standing bugs/problems, and get maps to where they are much more current, AND corrected on a more timely basis when advised of mistakes.

Are you sure about that?

flaco wrote:

The constellation of satellites is constantly on the move and your house will have a different amount of satellites overhead throughout the day and night, in your car you have depending on terrain a wider view of the horizon and that will account for the higher accuracy.

I thought the sats were geostationary, just like the communication sats like DirectTV, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Geostationary

The WAAS birds are but not the rest

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Will nuvi 265W, Vista HCX, amateur radio

very sure

johnc wrote:
flaco wrote:

The constellation of satellites is constantly on the move and your house will have a different amount of satellites overhead throughout the day and night, in your car you have depending on terrain a wider view of the horizon and that will account for the higher accuracy.

I thought the sats were geostationary, just like the communication sats like DirectTV, etc.

Look in the sat page of your unit and you will see that over time the same birds are not overhead or if your unit doesn't have a satellite page check out this page and watch it for a period of time and you will see as they move (very boring like watching grass grow) http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/RT_WaasSatelliteStatus.htm

--
Garmin 38 - Magellan Gold - Garmin Yellow eTrex - Nuvi 260 - Nuvi 2460LMT - Google Nexus 7 - Toyota Entune NAV

Accuracy depends a lot on

Accuracy depends a lot on the geometry of the satellites you're receiving. Best accuracy is when you have satellites clsoer to the horizon on all sides. In the house, most of your satellites being received are probably in the direction of the window limiting the number received and with poor geometry.

Nothing >32 so what does that mean?

I have a lovely night image on my screen now. Sat #32 is coming in fine. NO numbers >32 at all have ever appeared though.

From what I understand, the WAAS-enabled sats have #s >32.

I will take my unit to the other end of the house and set it up in the sunporch there. I want to move my computer out there anyway. And then see if having it in the SOUTHERN exposure makes a difference. We're on the SW side of a hilly area here in NE MASS.

And I don't understand all that I know.
Have a good night, I'm shutting down.

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"Making tracks..." {:)-<=| Nuvi 880