Work zone speed cams in PA start today

I was trying to figure out where 31-38 might be on 476 sounds like the turnpike because oftomh 13 is Villanova another 18 miles is pretty far.

As OP posted, it is I-476; “ I-476 between mile markers 31-38 in Montgomery County”.A good guide to the exits can be found at https://www.pahighways.com/exits/I476exits.html

I'm glad to see the law is finally being implemented. I suppose the younger folk will disagree but being retired, I'm usually in no hurry to get where I'm going.

I normally go with the flow of traffic on the open road but when passing through work zones, I'm frequently tailgated when I do the posted speed limit. Often, there are no cars in sight ahead of me when I exit the zone. On one occasion, I had a tailgating trucker give me the finger when he was finally able to pass.

As a retired utility engineer who frequently worked along roadways, I can sympathize with the highway construction workers. Motorists simply drive too fast for conditions with little or no regard for others. Hopefully, this law will save a few lives.

Exit numbers correspond to the mileposts.

Exit 31 is Lansdale on 476, the ongoing widening of 476 starts there and ends around milepost 38. The next exit is 44 Quakertown.

I work in heavy highway construction, I drive a tri-axle dump truck, mostly in Philadelphia. It's extremely rare to see anyone going remotely close to the speed limit, except during rush hour when everyone is crawling along.

A lot of the time our work zone is in the middle section of a highway meaning when we are excavating the loaded trucks have to enter the highway in the hammer lane, extremely dangerous considering how fast people are going. It's nerve racking.

So as much as I hate more government intrusion and feel most of their so called safety measures are just a cash grab, this one is needed.

As the posted signs in our state and many other states say … "Construction workers. Give 'em a brake." I know it is sometimes frustrating to drive for miles in a reduced speed construction zone and never see a worker or machine. But you can also come upon an active zone in a hurry if you are going too fast.

This actually seems pretty fair. 11 mph is a pretty big buffer

I wish that construction management cared for construction workers. I presume that they are the ones who set up the lights for nighttime work. (Please, please, don’t tell me that it is the “safety” managers.) Do you think that they’ll ever make an effort to set up the lights and try to avoid blinding drivers?

Most of the time they know right from left. Most e.g. “Left Lane Closed Ahead” signs are correct. Unfortunately they won’t bother to take down the signs when the lane isn't closed. What that does is train us to ignore the signs.

Thanks for listening to me vent. I want it safer out there. For a poor turn of phrase how is this: Construction management needs some (of their own) flesh in the game.

It blinded you at night when driving through.

What you are saying. My buddy owns a transportation co. and the safety guys drive Mercedes and Corvettes and have nice polo shirts, as opposed to class 3 safety vests. If they do have a safety vest it's class 2, dry cleaned, and their names are embroidered on them along with the co. logo (I always wanted one actually)

The topic here centers on road construction safety. If your buddy with a “transportation company” does road construction then this is on-topic. I give you the benefit of the doubt for being on-topic. I am only saying that since “transportation company” doesn’t sound on-topic to me.

I’m glad that safety guys make good money and are well dressed. I bet they shower regularly. If what you are saying is relevant I don’t get it.

If they place their lights so that they blind me while I am driving next to their employees they are putting those employees (and me) at risk. Is there another interpretation than they don’t give a damn?

I work at minimizing my night driving. My driving style could be called right-lane-slug. I’m glad to do my best at being safe for me and everyone else. I wish the construction people tried too.

you ever try polarized sunglasses? They don't have to be Maui Jim or Oakley, maybe $39 at Costco. They all work. If not, then minimizing night driving makes sense.

p.s. I don't get how on this forum when you quote someone, it seems the web page is conducive to altering the post that's being quoted. I've seen it before, don't think it's the person responding. that's why I'm careful to make sure what's in the box above, has none of my words.

I wonder if we have succeeded at miss-communicating.

I do wear polarized sunglasses during the day. If there weren’t lane shifts, if there were easy to see lane lines, if, if, then I would have to fumble putting the glasses on for 100 (?) yards, then off. Sunglasses at night seem like a bad idea.

Perhaps you thought I was complaining about construction lights during the day?

For what it's worth, there is such a thing as polarized night glasses:

https://aguidepro.com/best-night-vision-glasses/

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Thanks. The first entry was said to be "semi-polarized". On a search the first 4 or 5 advertisements had no explanation of what that might mean. This https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/semipolarized was no help. I suppose that it is just marketing hype.

From the age of 4 thru 70 I spent most of my waking moments wearing glasses. Since cataract surgery where I chose to favor distance vision in both eyes and I chose toric lenses for my astigmatism I enjoy only needing glasses to read and wanting sunglasses when outside.

Back on topic, perhaps there is a reason that construction crews can't protect us from their lights.

If you scrolled the whole page they followed the list with pros and cons for each pair and there were several that were in fact polarized, not semi.

As for the construction lights, the lights are bright so the men can safely do the job at hand. I drive a dump truck and yes getting into a sight can even blind me, but it's what's needed.

We can't win, during the day folks complain why can't we do the work at night, and at night folks complain about the light and why can't we do the job during the day.

I quit writing because I thought I was just going on and on. So,,, to go on and on,,,

My ophthalmologist said, and it is of course obvious, that adding any optical layer will diminish acuity. (He wasn’t speaking of chromatic or spherical aberrations.) I have what I believe to be high quality sunglasses. With them I can’t read street names and any other text on my GPS. (No, it isn’t a glasses polarization vs. LCD polarization problem.) Without glasses I (barely) can. I don’t want to add an extra layer unless there is a good reason.

Just because someone while trying to be helpful suggested (I think they suggested) nighttime polarized lenses doesn’t make that sensible. Those lights have no filters. Those lights are not polarized. During the day non polarized light can become polarized by reflecting off e.g. my hood and my sunglasses work well there. The only thing that’ll work with direct non polarized light is attenuation. I think it is a really bad idea to wear sunglasses (attenuation) at night in construction zones where there are lane shifts which shift from location to location and poorly marked lane lines. Another issue is that at night some people don’t turn their lights on and rely on their DRLs which don’t have taillights on. Before the coronavirus I would drive in one particular 20 mile zone every 6 or 8 weeks. It was never the same twice. I hope that I’ve made the case against nighttime sunglasses. From my cycling days I have some yellow lens glasses. I thought that they may have been a marginal improvement in twilight. Some people love them for their enhanced contrast. Still, it seems to be a bad idea to add a filter and get less light at night.

I hope that you don’t feel attacked when I criticize a standard practice in your industry that you have no control over. IIRC you are in PA. Perhaps you have better practices there than we do in CO. We don’t take down “Lane Closed” signs when lanes are opened. If, for example, I am driving south and the construction work is on the far side of the north lanes, maybe 40 yards or more away it will from time to time feel like the lamps are pointing straight at me. I understand that light may need to come from more than one direction to minimize shadows. Nevertheless, when the light 40 yards away is pointed more at me than the ground then I think that they didn’t try to do better. My complaint isn’t that the site is lit but that I am lit more than the site.

I do appreciate your trying to be helpful too.

I only responded a second time about the glasses because it seemed to me that you didn't go past the first listing that said semi-polarized, I was trying to point out there were supposedly fully polarized glasses on the list as well. You know what's best for you. I have worn photochromic sunglasses that lighten with darkness but don't go completely clear at night on my motorcycle and yes, they do make things a tad darker but they also help with glare.

As for my industry, no, I don't feel attacked, I have to deal with the light just as much as you, as a driver, I get stuck in the same construction caused traffic jams trying to get to the job, so I am on both sides of the equation. The bright lights are unintended consequence of working at night, but a necessary one for the workers safety.

I have cataracts that are not yet bad enough for surgery, and have been to my opthalmologist multiple times for night driving problems. He is the eye doctor for the New York Mets.

He says the best glasses for night driving are clear lenses with your distance prescription and an anti-reflective coating. This coating is something that is already done for most glasses made today.

minke, even though your implanted lenses are set for distance, it is possible that they are not focused exactly right. If so, eyeglasses with a light prescription might improve your night vision.

The other issue is the driver height in your car. I like sedans because of their good handling, cornering and so forth. The problem is I am bothered by other drivers' headlights behind me and oncoming. Switching to an SUV raised my head 8 inches and greatly helped. Also, the new car has bright LED headlights.

dobs108

Thank you. I was a difficult case for cataract surgery because the thickness of one of my eye structures was variable. I can’t remember what part of the eye it was (not that there all that many!). Every time I was measured for lenses the prescription was different. Post surgery my acuity measures from 20/25 to 20/20+ in year to year measurements.

Caution: my cataracts went from detectable to down 30% in one year. Stay on top of it.
Suggestion: when the time comes, if you have astigmatism, consider toric lenses.

In order to tow my boat I have a 1 ton truck whose height is excessive. It replaces a ¾ ton truck that was destroyed by hail. The ‘11 ¾ ton was high enough but the marketeers at Ford thought that the ‘17 1 ton should be higher. Raising the center of gravity without any other compensation makes the new one handle worse and provides no advantage. Add to that the fact that I have 4 headlight bulbs instead of the usual 2. If it weren’t for the boat and the travel trailer we intend to buy I wouldn’t be shooting so many photons so high into the air.

I have noticed that driving the speed limit (often 75 MPH here) demands too much focus and is tiring, even during the day. If there are 2 lanes in my direction I will sit in the right lane and go at 10 MPH less. With 4 lanes available I may go slower.

I hope that this isn’t too much off topic.

Cameras can be found almost everywhere on major roads, especially in Metropolitan areas. The work zone cameras will generate more income for the State and make people more cognizant of driving in a work zone. One issue is that if part of the work zone is complete and no workers or work activities are present, it is still considered part of the work zone. This would give the cameras the ability to send you a party invitation while you were speeding through an area that looked like a completed road.

Sounds like someone needs progressives lenses with self darkening or 2 pairs of progressives one sunglasses the other clear. "Barely being able to make it out" (GPS etc.) in the cabin (or at distance) should never be.

look if glasses won't work, and being careful is difficult, then ok maybe the construction side can be more careful. I would say this is the last resort, as it will be difficult to accomplish. We can all do our part to be reasonable. the only incident that comes to mind for me is when US CBP set up a mobile checkpoint just north of Lake George, NY, on I-87 S. I remember feeling blinded but everyone was basically stopped to 5 mph, most people were waved on. It seemed they stopped Asian people only, so I was very curious what was going on and I asked the next day with some people I knew in LE. This was 15 or so years ago, not sure if they would do that today. Maybe they would because in 2020 there were more incidents in Washington state but with US Citizens of another origin. Not to open a can of worms but US Citizen means US Citizen, that is American.

As far as cams in PA, I'm all for them. I live in PA.

And really having friends in MD and going there since about 2009, it got me used to them. Maybe if one has never driven through them there's a sense of paranoia and someone's comin' to git me. It's no different than Costco being able to track you entering their store and exiting, your motions throughout the entire warehouse, in 4k resolution, are you scared or worried? Good chance shoppers never even gave it any thought, because they didn't do anything wrong.

I had my first experience with a work zone speed camera yesterday. It was located on I-80 westbound, just west of Bloomsburg, PA. The camera was installed in a special vehicle parked on the shoulder at the beginning of the work zone. There was only one warning sign posted after the usual series of construction work signs. It wasn't very conspicuous and easy to miss but Wow, it sure had the desired effect!

Traffic was moving through the zone at 40 mph even though it was posted at 55! Traffic was light and there was no reason for it to be moving that slowly other than the photo threat. Hopefully, the program will continue to be this effective.

End of August and a big flash in my face. this makes no sense as we have no plates on the front in PA. So not sure what the point was? And to date I have not received anything in the mail.

Could this device on a vehicle have been in the northbound lane, on the shoulder, looking at the Southbound? But it was on the right shoulder. It was at the end of the work zone, there was no work, and it was pitch black.

At any rate having not ever rec'd a summons I guess it doesn't matter, as first offense carries no fine. And all the traffic was pulling away from me so very bizarre, if taking pics of fronts everyone else would have triggered the flash...

That works for me, sort of. I now always drive the speed limit + 8-9 mph and haven't got a ticket since I instituted that. Last ticket was in 1989. Knock on wood. Just for the record, I don't like automated enforcement devices.

Believe PA when they say the intention is awareness. Why. The 1st violation is a warning only. The threshold allowing 10 over, and activating upon 11 over. Also, the fine is relatively small, meaning 1st offense $0, 2nd offense, $75. I feel this is saying hey! We're giving you a break to become aware. 10 over is generous.

There are other states where it's like do not pass go and immediately in the $400's for fine, that isn't awareness imho that's revenue.

I just don't understand a vehicle taking pics both ways, from the right shoulder of one set of lanes??? And it's not safe to flash in someone's face imho.

It looks to me like the Jeep in the pic has cams looking both ways.....and I think the one looking south flashed in my face, when I was traveling north, but I dunno....

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/transportation-and-tran...

Have absolutely no issues with lowered speed limits through real construction zones. And, I am usually the guy leading a long line of people who want to excessively speed through the zone.

My issue is with the many areas labeled as construction zones, the speed limit is lowered, and there is nothing, zip, nil, going on. No evidence of construction activity of any kind. And, the speed limit is lowered for months and months with nothing happening.

If you look closely at the camera car in the video there is only one camera, (with a light on top), and that's facing toward the front of the camera car catching the rear of cars passing by. The thing facing toward your face is a light only, no camera with it.

I agree that flashing in your face is a bad idea, maybe it's to warn oncoming traffic of its presence, I don't know.

What I do know is, in PA it's illegal to take a photo of the front of the vehicle, due to privacy issues, that's why the owner of the captured vehicle gets the ticket, even though they might not have been the driver at the time, they're not allowed to shoot the front.

So, you’re saying all the birds I flipped at those cameras were wasted?

Sadly, yes. ;p

I wasn't using my dash cam (really don't anymore) which would show speed and also I could replay this incident. makes me wonder--could I have misconstrued the flash, as taking a pic of someone in front of me? I thought that all the traffic had already pulled away from me and I was by myself in pitch black. The camera has a better memory than most humans. I truly believe we all need dash cams for school bus incidents. Whether or not the driver is a good or bad person, the bus driver is a human, and they have a lot of power when they turn on their reds--they can have your licenses suspended in PA upon the first offense (I'm not saying there are two sides when a car blows the reds--I mean if a car waits, then decides to go upon no reds, then reds turn on suddenly).

totally forgot all about PA and work zones, not that I would typically exceed 11 mph anyway, but no tickets at all.

I do think sometimes when something of an enforceable nature is reasonable, like ticket when >= 12 mph over, it's a non-issue.

Also, there are cases where it's not reasonable, like Cali. was, or DC not publishing thresholds, and fines being large.

Admittedly I have not traveled Roosevelt Blvd. since speed cams were installed

This information come in handy.

I-78 this week and was quite surprised, I was "the" slowest driver as I was trying to keep it from 0-5 mph over the work zone limit.

I asked someone at the facility why people are so confident being 20 over in a photo enforced work zone, and was told people know when the vehicle with cams on top, is put out there. And then another person said the vehicle itself speeds.

I did catch the Jeep with my dash cam and it was in the median looking at me. My dash cam said 48 and the speed limit was 50...I had let off the gas as I approached.

I would have to say for whatever reasons saying photo enforced isn't effective in PA.

online it said 11 mph over and ticketed in person is 15 day loss of license. What bad luck to be doing 70 in a 50 with a trooper I guess...

Any photo enforced gizmo, traffic, speed, is a no point offence in PA. PA law prohibits them from photographing the front of a vehicle so they have no way of proving who was operating the vehicle at the time. The registered owner gets the fine but no points. Not sure how can lose the license for 15 days if they can't prove who was driving. Now maybe if an actual Trooper caught you, but not with photo enforcement.

the difference is automated, or in person.

The complete disregard just wasn't what I would have expected.

I have not driven a lot since 3/20--my daily driver went like 5k when it normally would have been 28k.

I do believe part is ignorance, people aren't aware of the seriousness of a work zone or school bus violation. The other part is not caring anyway.

The fact that people in the facility gave me times, directions etc. of when to expect that white Jeep to be where, tells me it's easily defeated. Then, the secret weapon seems to be Waze. Let's face it, I am a goody two shoes. 0-5 mph over lol

My bad, I computed what I read incorrectly, carry on.

It's long enough that if I would get a ticket, it would have come by now (but I really didn't speed--I only say that thinking what if there were a part of a zone I was not aware was in the work zone).

Personally I don't know what else to do, if I know there's photo enforcement, I don't want to chance 9-10-11 mph and push the upper limit. I'd rather be going the speed limit. But at least in the scenario I brought up, I was THE ONLY ONE. Trucks, buses, other cars, who knows maybe they're at 9 over and know it's not enough for a ticket?

Also, if there are people actually working, then the speed limit is the right thing to do. But it is also goody two shoes....